Tier List

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Bruh,bruh. All SE has to do is remove positional requirements for melees so we can top charts consistently. If Ninja is suppose to be less positional requirements it'd be way better in terms of damage in comparison to mnk and drg.

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Lol would be nice, I just figured I'd catch a lot of "getgud" from people.

Considering WD is currently...dormant, which is another matter entirely, the above are just the thoughts for FL. Just a few explainations- BLMs 'left unchecked' can aoe sleep (better than smn bind since even targets directly in front can't be attacked still while up), flare, and LB. Just from personal observation but seen enough consistant times where blm dps is over smns (at least on Primal) to feel this way.

SCH vs WHM. Again...just from personal experience, I can't understand why people say whm is superior to sch (at least in FL) Perhaps many of em don't know how to effectively utilize their job's burst capabilities? (why I say drg > mnk easily) Assuming attunment's not up, once a whm gets stunned, it can be burned VERY easily (or just interrupts in place of stuns) SCHs...do not suffer from this problem. Good ol EoS to save the day. Once he dies that second time tho...

I would have to agree with WHM being the most OP on frontlines. You get 3+ in the middle of a fight and nothing on the opposing side save them and they become a terror to mow down when you have multiple healers that can raise.

DRG I would rank as 4 or 5 onthe OP's scale. True, they don't have anything that makes them a valuable asset but they have a ton of utility and are great for mowing down mages who try and sprint away to avoid damage. As I recall, they can have two TP regen skills. One is standard to their class and one is PvP locked but they both restore 500tp each. Simply cast those as soon as you sprint and watch as the healers and mages squirm when they cant get away.

This provides a great tactical asset as it prevents mages from doing timed cast skills save they haven't used their insta-cast skills, greatly hindering the amount of support they can typically provide.

Dragoon in general has alot of skills for PvP that make it a great mage slayer so go figure. :I

As for brd, its got a bad rep merely because 80% (probably higher) of the brds currently in PvP started out with FL and have no instinctive programing to position themselves correctly at all times (course 101 via WD) I feel like donating a free kill to the opposing team everytime I hear some idiot teammate bitch about me or another brd not standing on the flag while attacking, but newer brds who don't do their research pick up on this and throw positioning out the window. Theres also the fact that we have 2 completely useless mp abilities (if your team needs mp THAT bad beyond battle voice > ballad during downtime, they're hitting the wrong targets and deserve to be killed) and a 'healer LB', all which give the assumption we're only good for 'ticking the mages.' Hence, #9. (For the record, theres no such thing as the brd's burst phase or 900+ farshots! *inserts final line of The Usual Suspects.*

Monk #8? These tier lists really do have no merit.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

3.DRG (if he really, and I mean REALLY knows what he's doing)

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+1 To you.

I'm glad someone actually realizes that dragoon is one of the absolute best. Dragoon is designed for pvp. Crazy on command burst, burst is everything in pvp and dragoon has all the tools to apply it. Two gap closers, fetterward, weapon throw, and elusive jump (which is priceless). Opening burst is in excess of 8k+ damage in a little over 10 seconds in i80, 2 guaranteed interrupts via stun. Dragoon is an absolute machine.

That being said, it's no wonder most see it as an average class, the skill ceiling is too high for most and as such they all suck. There is 2 on primal that are god level though.

@ Vaeria, please do tell why you think BLM stands at the top.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

Interesting thread~ First off, Atreus's numbers are VERY believable. Considering that pld is at the absolute bottom of the killme-list, ALL plds SHOULD be getting these numbers. Higher survivability, way less pressure = way more time to stay engaged and dog your targets.

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While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met. One being that you're constantly engaged. No running around from point to point minus the initial time to run to a spot. The second requirement being the opposing team and his own team are full of healers keeping each other alive. There is no way in hell a PLD can do 100k+ dps otherwise. And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

-Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

-I've also tried pushing DPS for fun as a PLD and my damage averages somewhere between 60-85k. This includes running from point to point and playing FL like its supposed to be played; not fighting in one spot like an enlarged version of WD. Only times I've ever hit over 100k as it were the times when the other teams had 6+ WHM's, which in itself is very rare.

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Originally Posted by Skeet

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met.

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Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

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Originally Posted by Skeet

Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

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Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

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Originally Posted by Skeet

And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

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Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

First off, I don't know what's with the aggressive attitude, but I didn't say anything negative about you till now. As I said before, I also DPS on PLD from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

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1) A lot of travel time? Doubtful if a PLD hits 100k+. Very doubtful. Traveling from spawn to one location isn't "a lot" of travel time, FYI. But hey, I could be wrong. Prove it with a video then of your character "traveling a lot" Mr. Paladin.
2) So you were dealing with 2 parties against your 1 party? Am I assuming this right? If so, two things:

A) Very doubtful a team of 2 parties couldn't kill your 1 party team. If they didn't then they must've sucked.
B) You never included whether or not who won in this battle, but assuming your party of 1 beat 2 parties together, then a caster LB must have been involved. There's no realistic way for a team of 2 full parties to lose to only 1 party without caster LB being involved. But , back to the point now. In the case a caster LB was used and your group won against said party of 2, then that just DROPS the possibility of your PLD hitting high DPS as most of the enemy parties would be dead and picked off by the rest of your team.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

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Whose job is it to DPS? A tank? If so, move right along.

-That's all I really need to say to counter your "argument".

But I will take the bait and counter your argument, which really isn't necessary. If you think you can stun-lock multiple targets and STILL keep DPS, then lol. To any real PLD's, any and all of them will notice a good drop in their DPS if they focus on stun-locking targets as opposed to focusing on JUST DPS'ing. A PLD's stun skill goes from 4 seconds to 2 seconds to 1 second. If you use an offensive skill in between stun times, you won't be able to effectively stun-lock the healer as they have a good chance to push you back and heal. Keep in mind this is without the fact that you gotta wait for your skill's cooldown to circle back in order to perform another action. This is 9 seconds of damage wasted. You know, because your stun skill does hardly any damage as compared to your regular attack skills. That's 9 extra seconds that could've been used to use skills that actually deal damage

-It's very simple to notice. Incredibly simple.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

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You missed the larger picture, and my point for that matter, and retorted with very badly hidden implied insults. (Yes, I know insults are very hip these days to forumers)

Yes, PLD's are capable of hitting those numbers. But that isn't my point. Like I said earlier, which you conveniently discarded from my original post:

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Originally Posted by Skeet

If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

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The DPS potential in every DPS class will always be higher than a class meant to be a tank. Under the same circumstances, including both PLD's and DPS's not being hit, a PLD will never reach the same dps potential as any DPS class.

...not trying to start a war here Skeet but I'm curious: Did you play Wolves Den or begin with Frontlines? (not trying to be sarcastic at all :) That question you asked 'Whose job is it to DPS-a tank?', kinda leads me to believe you haven't, which would explain a bit. But if you have, surely you've noticed tanks (WD-wise, specifically MARs turned WAR) have some of the most crushing damage of all, EEEASILY over standard DPS. And why? BECAUSE they're tanks. Properly geared str/super-aggressive tanks make for some of the best dps of all simply because they have the advantage of, unlike standard dps who get hounded, not being bothered with until everyone else is cleared out. What plds lose in terms of straight dps to melees, they gain in terms of extended ability to engage. Your agruement seems to push aside this point (and yes, I'm aware of your saying 'If' both lasted as long) Even so, was under the impression this debate was to establish the validity of Atreus' numbers in light of the doubt you cast upon them, not about the practicalness of leaving a DPS's job to a DPS. Where did that come from at all lol?

Atreus said in his post (2pts in 2+ waves) which, until he clarifies, can be interpreted as 1 pt fought, killed, then fought again, or 2 pts of say adders vs 2 pts of flames. W/e the case, extended engagements (even with 3 enemy healers, let alone 6 lol) aren't rare at all, making those numbers possible for any number of reasons. Poor target priority on the part of melees, unability to focus target, w/e. I've broken 100k myself as lol-brd simply because for w/e reason people forgot about me during healfests, so its no surprise, again, that a pld could go on and on.

One more thought: The role of a 'good pld' allows room for variation once multiple tanks enter into the equation (Atreus makes mention of another tank in his premade I think) When dealing with multiple healers, theres only so much ANY tank can do in terms of stunlocking, and, once it becomes apparent melees aren't properly focusing, a tank might shift his focus elsewhere to find another crack in the armor so to speak. Kinda need you to clarify what your personal definition of a plds 'playing their class right' involves Skeet (specifically in FL, not WD.) As a side example, I've made friends with a pld who assists me in attempting to burn blms BEFORE jumping on the healer. Is this wrong?

*sigh* I can't tell if you're being serious anymore. Am I being trolled?

The "aggressive attitude" that you're claiming was only triggered after you made this silly comment:

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Originally Posted by Skeet

-Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

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It was then I realized you have no idea what you're talking about, and don't read well. And don't play a victim and act like implications weren't made, please.

That aside, in no post did I state it could do more than an actual DPS (assuming said DPS is played to its maximum). The only sentence remotely close was concerning how monk and dragoon have more difficulty maintaining these numbers, to which some of us then started discussing solutions. So who exactly is missing the point?

As for the situation... I think it's sort of implied the victors of said encounters were us. No, limit breaks weren't used. Really? So you're telling me a party of 8 cannot deal with two parties without limit break? I'm going to assume that's because you haven't done that either, so you're claiming impossibility. Seems to be the root of your argument here. Parties in question more than likely do suck, but you wanna know a crazy little weakness in two-party stacking? The difficulty in cross-party healing for most. Go ahead and ask anyone that runs a regular premade. Please, ask them. The traveling, btw, was from Markets, to the Heliodrome (sadly we just missed the node), then straight down to Storm Outpost.

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Originally Posted by Skeet

To any real PLD's, any and all of them will notice a good drop in their DPS if they focus on stun-locking targets as opposed to focusing on JUST DPS'ing.

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Don't worry, I'm well aware of how stunlocks work. You know what's kinda cool? Liberal use of your non-GCD's in between said locks. The other point of mentioning the two parties was to point out the abundance of targets for Circle of Scorn and Glory Slash. They aren't Flares, but damage pressure is paramount, however you can get it. Know what else is neat? Auto-attacks enhanced by Sword Oath. You're right, stunlocking reduces damage (lol, real PLD's, your posts really are funny), which I guess means my damage would have been higher if I didn't. But hey, couldn't let those pesky healers escape. 8D As a caveat, though, once healers are dead, stunlocks aren't really necessary unless there's a danger or to prevent escape. As I expected, your view on performing PLD seems to be to lock everything.


So let me ask you a question now, looking at the PLD currently on your Lodestone. I assume you're intelligent enough to swap to STR accessories so skipping that, where are your 30 points put into? For the rest of your gear, do you have a BiS set for maximizing determination and crit? Do you use food? Did you maximize STR with your AP? Do you even use icarus wings when you're bleeding for TP? If yes, then you should be capable of doing the exact same, so why are you upset? If not, why are you even talking to me right now?

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Originally Posted by Skeet

As I said before, I also DPS on PLD from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

Atreus said in his post (2pts in 2+ waves) which, until he clarifies

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Just clarified above, my apologies if I wasn't clear!

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

allows room for variation once multiple tanks enter into the equation (Atreus makes mention of another tank in his premade I think)

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Yes indeed, there was a MRD. He lets me handle stuns on critical targets, but you are right. Flexibility is wonderful. The other thing you are right on is variation. Just as a healer knows when it's time to DPS, so should a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

...not trying to start a war here Skeet but I'm curious: Did you play Wolves Den or begin with Frontlines? (not trying to be sarcastic at all :) That question you asked 'Whose job is it to DPS-a tank?', kinda leads me to believe you haven't, which would explain a bit. But if you have, surely you've noticed tanks (WD-wise, specifically MARs turned WAR) have some of the most crushing damage of all, EEEASILY over standard DPS. And why? BECAUSE they're tanks. Properly geared str/super-aggressive tanks make for some of the best dps of all simply because they have the advantage of, unlike standard dps who get hounded, not being bothered with until everyone else is cleared out. What plds lose in terms of straight dps to melees, they gain in terms of extended ability to engage. Your agruement seems to push aside this point (and yes, I'm aware of your saying 'If' both lasted as long)

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I started in WD as a BLM and used SMN/PLD as an alt whenever I wanted to switch things around or whenever my premade wanted to switch classes. Started off solo queuing though sinceI didn't really meet anyone that liked PvP back then. I started back when they allowed 2 range classes to be in the same team.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

Even so, was under the impression this debate was to establish the validity of Atreus' numbers in light of the doubt you cast upon them, not about the practicalness of leaving a DPS's job to a DPS. Where did that come from at all lol?

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No? I never doubted his numbers. If you read carefully, I never mentioned his name. My original post was to PLD's in general.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

It was then I realized you have no idea what you're talking about, and don't read well. And don't play a victim and act like implications weren't made, please.

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Considering you think that I was talking about you rather than talking about just plain bad PLD's in general makes me wonder who really is the one that can't read well. I stick by my word and I swear that I didn't make any implications towards you. Read my original post again with a less 'hate' filled mind and you will see that what I said wasn't directed towards you in any way.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

That aside, in no post did I state it could do more than an actual DPS (assuming said DPS is played to its maximum). The only sentence remotely close was concerning how monk and dragoon have more difficulty maintaining these numbers, to which some of us then started discussing solutions. So who exactly is missing the point?

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My original post and point was towards only Vaeria. You're the one who jumped the gun since my post towards him didn't involve you. I just used your numbers as an example to set across my point. My point to him was that PLD's don't normally hit high amounts of DPS damage. Why DPS as a PLD when you can guarantee for your team a dead healer with a smartly timed stun-lock? Solo-queuing I wouldn't even bother stun-locking since random people are just so bad most of the time...but in a premade party that knows how to focus burn targets quickly, stun-lock becomes deadly to a healer. With my main premade group, there hasn't been a single time I started a stun-lock where the enemy has gotten away alive. Oh and just last week we went on a 13 win streak before calling it a night.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

As for the situation... I think it's sort of implied the victors of said encounters were us. No, limit breaks weren't used. Really? So you're telling me a party of 8 cannot deal with two parties without limit break? I'm going to assume that's because you haven't done that either, so you're claiming impossibility. Seems to be the root of your argument here.

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No, it was very vague. You just mentioned you were facing 2 parties in your original post. Vaeria's posts right before ours also confirms that it was hard to tell.

I've fought 2 parties before versus my 1 party. At most, we won when it seemed like the enemy team's B squad only sent half of their members to an A or C location where we were engaged. We've won multiple ones and lost a few depending on how good the other party is. On the times my group did face 2 full parties, it was pretty much just a blitz. We only run 2 healers, which is all we need to survive in all honesty. My premade's still undefeated in terms of FL matches. So, when 2 parties attack us, who would they attack first? The 2 healers. The other team most likely consisted of somewhere between 8-12 DPS's and around 2-4 tank classes. It's VERY doubtful that any 1 premade party's healers could survive an attack with that many damaging classes going after a party of 2 or 3 healers.

-Which also brings up the next question towards you: How many healers were in your party? By the way you described your post, and with winning without LB, it's safe to assume you had 2 or 3 healers. 2-3 healers cannot survive an onslaught of around 10 dps's with around 2 tanks targeting just them. Of course, unless the 2 enemy party group was just plain bad.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Parties in question more than likely do suck, but you wanna know a crazy little weakness in two-party stacking? The difficulty in cross-party healing for most. Go ahead and ask anyone that runs a regular premade.

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This isn't really a valid point or argument. Cross healing? Why would that even be a factor? If 2 full parties were sent, why would one group's healers focus on the other party? Heal your own party and let the other team's party heal theirs. There is no need to cross party heal when it's a full 2 party group vs 1 full party.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Don't worry, I'm well aware of how stunlocks work. You know what's kinda cool? Liberal use of your non-GCD's in between said locks. The other point of mentioning the two parties was to point out the abundance of targets for Circle of Scorn and Glory Slash. They aren't Flares, but damage pressure is paramount, however you can get it. Know what else is neat? Auto-attacks enhanced by Sword Oath. You're right, stunlocking reduces damage (lol, real PLD's, your posts really are funny), which I guess means my damage would have been higher if I didn't. But hey, couldn't let those pesky healers escape. 8D As a caveat, though, once healers are dead, stunlocks aren't really necessary unless there's a danger or to prevent escape.

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Well you did good in having an adult level argument until this part, but I commend the effort and the obvious less-hate filled post.

But back to the post. Yes, more players will equal more damage for both circle of scorn and glory slash, but was their 2 full party all clumped up together in range for it? If they were, then I have no words to express how bad this team you fought was...
-And yes, Sword Oath helps. Thanks for the basic paladin 101.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

As I expected, your view on performing PLD seems to be to lock everything.

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I stun-lock the healers and mark them for my premade to focus. I don't use stun-locks otherwise unless it's just 1 person running away.

-See, assuming things is bad.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

So let me ask you a question now, looking at the PLD currently on your Lodestone. I assume you're intelligent enough to swap to STR accessories so skipping that, where are your 30 points put into? For the rest of your gear, do you have a BiS set for maximizing determination and crit? Do you use food? Did you maximize STR with your AP? Do you even use icarus wings when you're bleeding for TP? If yes, then you should be capable of doing the exact same, so why are you upset?

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I have 2 gear sets for both PvM and PvP, yes. My stats are put into STR since I don't really use PLD outside of PvP except for trial roulette's where tanks are the job in need for that extra gil boost. Yes, I do have a damage set on my PLD PvP gear set. I don't use food actually. It's a waste. I have tested the use of food on SMN and BLM and have noticed a decent improvement in DPS, but again, it is such a waste in my opinion and definitely not necessary with my team. If you have enough time to "bleed" out of tp in FL, then there's already an issue since killing the opposing team is the objective in order to claim a spot. Even if I did run out of tp, I just use enliven to restore it.

-My team isn't focused on getting high damage, it's focused on killing the enemy team as fast & effectively as possible and winning FL.

Gonna break you guys' discussions a bit but playing in FL as PLD. I find the class to be lacking without coordination.
How do you guys burst with a PLD in Sword Oath? I sure can't do it for the life of me. :/
Even when I'm stunlocking people it feels like I'm doing it on the wrong target.
So I switched to BRD. And I find them having a lot of utilities.
Just a little information for those wanting to build an actual Tier list.
1. Foe's Requiem is the only song a BRD should be playing and should be playing right before engaging.
2. Blast Shot -> Shadowbind can keep casters outside of casting range who are standing a little outwards from everyone else. Shadowbind can also keep players from running away. Bind them, wait for your melee players to catch up and start pounding on them if they don't use purify.
3. BRD can cross class Feint from LNC which inflicts slow on the target reducing their skill/spell speed by 20% for 10 secs. Continuous use has diminished returns. This makes it easier for caster interrupts.
4. BRD can also do burst periodically due to the short CDs they possess. (hawk's eye, Raging strikes, Blood for Blood, Internal Release and Barrage)
5. Last but not least AoE interrupts. If the enemy casters/healers like to the stand in the circle, Wide Volley them to death. Just watch for enaminity and stop when that buff is up to save up your TP. Speaking of TP, like the melee dps classes BRD also has access to two TP regenerating skills. Enliven and Invigorate.

Well thats all the info I have on BRD and how I play it. If you guys got any comments to help me better myself on FL, feel free to let me know!

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Originally Posted by Skeet

Stuff

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I don't think you're understanding whats being said...

He's not talking about playing PLD as a DPS (which seems to mean using no stuns according to your statements). He's saying PLD is more useful in DPS **gear**. You can still stun lock or whatever in STR/DET/CRIT gear...except now, your target will for sure die faster because your auto-attacks and off-GCD abilities will do more damage while you're stunning. Those healers you're talking about are going to die faster. Isn't that the point? After the healers are dead, you most likely won't need to stun anymore. From then on, you're just doing great damage to the rest of the enemy team and watching them melt. What is the argument here? Maybe I missed something. If I did, I apologize.

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Originally Posted by Deelo

Maybe I missed something. If I did, I apologize.

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You probably did since we both already know and do that lol

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Monk #8? These tier lists really do have no merit.

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Idk if he's trolling or not. He still hasn't answered why he put BLM as #1 lol.

-Instead of just trashing tiers, why not make one of your own. Better than just saying so and so's list sucks. It's supposed to be a community effort after all.

Sorry for delay in response. Jumped to Tonberry/Elemental and have had so much FL (9pm pst -9am pst during JP times) haven't had time to do anything else at night..including sleep >_>; Anyhu...picked BLM as #1 spot for a couple of reasons. I value offensive approaches over defensive ones and blm just has a huge hand in everything. Has a LB that, with sleepga can clear flags w/o any assistance (seeing 4 + healers that you've been trying to shut down for 10 minutes suddenly get broken in half by 1 blm is just...) Lets see..blm crits. They have no penalty as far as range or position (that I know of) and..as of last night...I've had the privilige of seeing what happens when 3 blms can sync Flare. This, coupled with the fact that I/we have taken flags w/o any healers present at all (blms were there though) just put blms at the top. They have their weaknesses (so does every other job) but if allowed to run free, they pose a threat like no other DPS comes close to.

About mnk...no offense Houston but I can only base these Tier lists on personal experience (it may be cheating but in the case of mnk vs drg, I'm also recalling WD fights too) Mnk has no ranged attacks (don't mean Shoulder Tackle) to start with so as long as they can't reach ya, can't hit ya. While this goes for all other melee classes, during kite stage, mnk has lowest def. Drg, with Elusive Jump, has 2 forms of Purify..mnk..has 1. Drg has the ability to nullify its positional penalties. Mnk..doesn't. Sigh..then theres burst. One Inch Punch might be taken kindve seriously by schs, but whms laugh at it. Ranged, defensively, offensively, theres just nothing mnk can do that another class can't do better. ...except brd...who has no LB and *cough* no burst. *Hear that Yoshi? We brds are at teh bottom of list so moar abilities prz.*

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

About mnk...no offense Houston but I can only base these Tier lists on personal experience

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I can do the same with your post...you haven't run into a good monk yet. Every single Tier list anyone posts will be 100% subjective so I hope nobody takes them seriously. The purpose of this thread is just to see what jobs other people like to play and why, not "drg pwns, pld sucks and you're a douche for playing one" arguments.