Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

and static groups don't let people join if they are inexperienced. :D

---

A static is a group of ppl with similar ways to play that make a group. Sure static with ppl that are doing T9 won't pick him but nothing says that you can't create a static with ppl that has to start or has just started second coil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

they should just add a tourist mode for people like op. something with toned down one shot mechanics and no loot at the end. that way you can experience the side story at least. if you want the loot then you have to beat the real thing.

---

This is probably the best idea, and one that I've been shopping around for a while. Maybe just calling it Story Mode or Casual Mode, or something, I dunno.
I do think that, even with the relative nerfs to content and buffs to players, many first-timers treat DF runs as practice or training, and there's really nothing wrong with that. If you want to clear content, you should probably just throw up a PF or get some friends.

What can I say. I have a colleague at my work who when asked to do something he doesn't quite understand will always start the "I don't know this. Nobody has explained this to me before" or "This is ridiculous" or "Why we even need to do it, it just make no sense". Then a scared trainee is asked to do the thing and with no guides or explanations he complete the task perfectly BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT OUT WHAT HE HEARD AND SAW and put an effort in what he was asked to do.
The "casual players" that constantly ask for handouts because of their laziness to simply try to observe and learn remind me of this dude - that guy who has had years to learn simple things and still don't know anything, getting bested by inexperienced first timers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

and static groups don't let people join if they are inexperienced. :D

---

It depends.

If you mean a static pugging a random one yeah. Considering the "jump the rope" mechanic FFXIV fights have, you really can't afford newbie. It just not possible if you want to beat a fight.

If you mean static having a new player in their ranks, then it's false. Based on my experience, most static are willing to teach their new members the fight because of course these members will stick with them and next week will know how to dance, Yoshi-scriped fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Is echo that much of a gain ? I personally dont believe so, it helps but is not that much of a guaranteed win just because you have a 25 % HP more in the end it is only around 10-15% real HP gain.

Make it easier no not all, just increase the reaction time slightly and it should fix most of the problems and I dont speak of 2sec just even if only by half a second.

Just me though

---

It's not just HP, but also dmg received and inflicted, as well healed. I remember using adlo and getting 1.6k HP of shield without crit. Also level 100 Gears + in a fight that some people finished in DL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Defteros

the point is. what do you need an easier coil for? to learn mechanics for the "hard" mode?
dodging everything in Titan HM doesn't make you able to dodge everything in Titan EX

---

it does teach you mechanics like bombs. had a friend start recently, we carried him through Titan HM and when EX came around he didn't even know what landslide was let alone the basic bomb patterns and baiting landslide during bombs.

the bomb pattern in titan HM are way different compared to Titan EX.
yes, you learn the basics doing the easy mode, but you still have to learn how to play around Titan EX.
might as well farm training party for Titty EX, at this point. Even more if you got carried through titan HM.

I got carried throug titan HM too, the first time I did it...
now, after countless tries of titan ex, when I get to play titty HM for secondary class relic, it feels like a joke.

actually the echo buffs makes some fights far harder than they originally were.

Leviathan extreme is near impossible with a fully geared group and 25%

Twintania is much the same. You end up with all kinds of mixed up phases.

Moogle Mog Extreme is far harder with the echo, it is so much easier to make mistakes and push a lesser moogle too far by accident.

Because of the phase based nature of bosses, the echo is actually a detriment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eclipsed

actually the echo buffs makes some fights far harder than they originally were.

Leviathan extreme is near impossible with a fully geared group and 25%

Twintania is much the same. You end up with all kinds of mixed up phases.

Moogle Mog Extreme is far harder with the echo, it is so much easier to make mistakes and push a lesser moogle too far by accident.

Because of the phase based nature of bosses, the echo is actually a detriment.

---

You can cancel the buff if it's presenting you any problems, you know. The bigger question, then, is why is a group of fully geared individuals wiping enough to get to 25% in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Moogle Mog Extreme is far harder with the echo, it is so much easier to make mistakes and push a lesser moogle too far by accident.

---

Same thing with the hard mode. If tank pushes the king too fast before the other moogles are down, he auto-enrages. Of course, this pretty much requires a tank in full STR jewellery, which is not a common sight in DF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VitaminMT

You can cancel the buff if it's presenting you any problems, you know. The bigger question, then, is why is a group of fully geared individuals wiping enough to get to 25% in the first place.

---

hunts, etc... there are a ton of people out there who have tons of gear and can do tons of dps as a result. However while they can push the buttons in the right order and have great gear now, they still can't execute mechanics which is something that the echo makes even harder to do in this situation.

This is how I see this issue. We play a MMORPG that gives you tools to use, with some that have a much higher success rate (free companies, statics, party finder). When a player chooses to use the lowest rate of success, that is there own choice. Content should not be lowered just because some players make the choice to not use what's available to them. I'm not sure what peoples issue is when they play these games but refuse to take the better winning solutions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

*snip*

---

Latency isn't something you can reliably control all the time, and is worse for some bosses than for others. Giving even an extra half second on these attacks would make all the difference in the world without objectively affecting the difficulty. You still gotta dodge, you're just not completely screwed if your connection sneezes.

I cant explain the maount of people I see messing stuff up in DF, as a tank its easiest for me to see DPS and when I see dragoons using only full thrust combos or monks never moving form the flank...they just aren't trying, and I dont think its fair to hand wins to people who have no intention of trying, that would takes away the point entirely. They have been nerfed, we have echo, we have better gear. It's more than enough, I just wish people would stop watching tv while raiding extreme+ content -_-

SE will most likely further nerf coil 1 when coil 3 comes out so stay tune. To be honest, if they want to make the fight easy as in people can clear it in one or two tries they'll need to severely nerf the mechanics, like removing all the one shoot mechanics ie: Conflags, Twister, Divebombs to the wall..etc. They should just make it a tank and spank fight with the occasional AoE to dodge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dano

SE will most likely further nerf coil 1 when coil 3 comes out so stay tune. To be honest, if they want to make the fight easy as in people can clear it in one or two tries they'll need to severely nerf the mechanics, like removing all the one shoot mechanics ie: Conflags, Twister, Divebombs to the wall..etc. They should just make it a tank and spank fight with the occasional AoE to dodge.

---

Absolutely not. Each and everyone one of those mechanics can be recovered from in case of accidental death (yes, even twisters)
Removing those mechanics would merely replace t5 as a roadblock with t6+ as a roadblock to 3rd Coil.

yep I understand this, but I still have the impression that the echo doesnt really add up anything at all neither int erms of damage received, inflicted and even less in heals...I wish I could record, alas I have yet to find a way to do that...but the day I can do so I will just compare damage received and inflicted with and without, I sincerely believe that echo adds difficulty rather then helping, either ways, if you face a sneeze in latency, server lag, you just are screwed either with or without echo. Reaction time needs/should be adjusted even if only by half a second, it would make a huge difference without breaking anything, those that dont sufer from latency/server lag, wont have problems either ways, but for those that have that handicap because it is a handicap it would make a hell of a lot of difference and by that allow all to enjoy the fight and have less frustrated people on both sides of the fence.

Just me though

Mei

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adler

snip

---

I agree with the majority, shouldn't be nerfed at all if its been nerfed already. But I feel I have to quibble with term casual. A bad player is bad, not because he only plays a few hours a week, it's because they plain suck, no matter how little or much they play! I've known people who are on a tight schedule who may only get a few hours to play a week, yet when they're on they put in 100% to beating all content without having people to hold their hands. Excuse me pointing you out in particular, I've seen other people do it as well, and it just baffles me as to why people equate a lack of play time with being completely useless and lazy Oo

As to people who are slower to learn... I'd recommend them staying away from gaming, because of the attitude of other players.

The primary reason echo has been placed is to not water down old-content to the point where new end-game content becomes beyond black and white to the "casual gamer." So instead of fighting very easy fights, you'll be against mechanics that will (and should) get you ready for the next piece of content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

I still have the impression that the echo doesnt really add up anything at all neither int erms of damage received, inflicted and even less in heals...

---

Hitpoints/health points increase marginally, and DPS requirements are met through the echo buff by compensating optimal DPS rotations (and the rare minimum requirement iLvL characters) with raw stats. If you do Titan Extreme Mode, you can easily solo-heal that as a White Mage even with your entire party taking one super bomb into Titan's jump. Just requires cooldown management (Divine Seal) and two Cure IIIs! And this is all thanks to the echo buff.

Unfortunately I must admit that OP is just one of many thinking like this.
Me and my FC helped a new FC mate get through Turn 5 yesterday evening, but we had to pug a random DPS.
We got a dragoon who must have been around ilvl 100 judging from his gear, yet he failed at basic stuff like conflags, divebombs and twisters. He swiftly abandoned the group after whining (luckily for us, I must say).

There are lots of people who believe that their gear makes the difference. Lots of people who think that they should be able to roflstomp content just because they pay a subscription.

To those saying those contents are too easy now,
I would suggest you try to pug it in DF.
You may find now it is harder to clear than it was new ^^;

Login. Loading Screen. Appear in world. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun duuun. You are now level 50 on all jobs, crafts, and gathering. You have every achievement, item, minion, etc. in the game. Congratulations!

Deny it all you want, this is what is being requested. If you completely suck and put forth no effort, you don't deserve to win. That sounds harsh but I'm sorry, a BLM (as an example) who is decked out in full i100 gear and yet still starts his dps rotation with 3 fire 1s instead of fire 3, does not deserve to be handed a T5 win.

You want older content to be easier, SE should add in job quests that actually require people to learn their job, instead of making it a face roll to 50 and then expecting them to not suck. Having said that, every job out there has countless forum discussions with number crunching and explanations on how to play them well. If you can't be bothered to learn, even after someone else has made a guide for you, you're not trying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamBenpi

blablabla

---

If you think that all that is what being asked for. Then you are not reading and sadly, you don`t want to do it.

Difficulty of high end content is way too high for casual players. And said difficulty added to the weekly lockouts doesn`t allow them to even "practice". So is really hard for them to even get close to beat the first coil, not to even talk about other walls like titan EX. Even titan HM is a challenge for parties of +i90 if they get together via DF.

There need to exist an instance that allows players to prepare better for said content, and quest won`t do it. For example, an easier (high echo + stat reduced enemies) version of Coils without any drops. Just for practice. So players learn the mechanics properly, can train themselves properly, can use their time properly and then they can move on to the real thing to get their gear progression.

You make content easier and more accesible to casual players? Yes.
You handed something to them in any way as you described? No.

the echo buff never makes a fight harder, it just means you have to adjust your strategy. However what mechanics do you find "too challanging" for the casual gamer? divebombs, and preovergeared/echo buff conflags, but not now conflags are a joke, twisters have always been a joke(been hit 1 time by twisters ever and i'm a blm so yeah). all it requires you to do is react, now reaction is usually the problem, and unfortunately the natural lag that exist for ps3 users and low end pc users can give you less time to react and dodge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eclipsed

...
Leviathan extreme is near impossible with a fully geared group and 25%
Twintania is much the same. You end up with all kinds of mixed up phases.
.

---

wrong on so many levels. A fully geared group on levi b4 echo can skip every dive that isn't 100% required, this means you are actually skipping the entire challenging mechanic of the fight. Add in 25% echo and the fight gets even more easy so why you think a fully geared group would wipe enough to build a 25% echo Idk, but it does in fact make the fight a million times easier. also levi fight is 100% broadcasted if your getting knocked off repeatedly then stop playing while under the influence. I mean honestly levi is a joke, and easily the easiest ex primal fight second to ifrit.

twintania, you can only get 1 get messed up phase, not phases. The 1 bad phase you can get is pushing divebombs while a conflag is up, that's it. If you think you can mess up multiple phases then you don;t know enough about the fight and that is why you are failing. unless for some reason dps are attacking twintania while a conflag is up. which means your dps, don't know how to dps. if your dps is high enough to mess up conflag timing it's more then high enough to kill every conflag without cd's even if they area all fast conflags, been there and done that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Difficulty of high end content is way too high for casual players.

---

At the risk of repeating what has already been said by many others - simply no.

I'm a casual player, by which I mean I play for 5-6 hours per week. Does that make me a bad player? No, it does not. It DOES mean that I progress through content slower. I was irked by the fact that Demon Wall was nerfed just before I got to play AK as I was looking forward to some more challenging content. The same will be true of BCOB and future content.

This thread seems to suggest that casual players are getting stuck on content because they're worse players - we are not, we simply take longer to play through it. The suggestion that 'casuals need a practice mode' is somewhat insulting. Is DF full of inexperienced players? No, it's a mixture of inexperienced players and experience roulette players. Keep it up and check guides, you'll get better and eventually get a good group (or FC).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

*snip*

---

they are called HIGH end contents for a reason.
they are just not suited for casual players.
High end contents are for people who decide to spend their time playing these contents, learning mechanics,practicing.
you won't pass anything if your mentality is "yes, I want to pass T5 but I can try it only a few times a week because I need to farm soldiery to gear up my 6° class"
that's not how end-game contents works.

I am a casual player myself, i spend most of the time farming dungeons for glamour, leveling up DoL/DoH classes and other jobs.
I don't have time, and most importantly, I don't want to do end game content.

when I wanted to do primals Extreme, I spent my days doing Garuda EX till i cleared it.
I spent weeks on titan EX trying to learn mechanics, learning how to work my rotation at best with the continuous "dodge this" "dodge that".
eventually, i got tired, and resumed my casual play without clearing it.

the point is.
what do you need a "nefted lootless coil" for.
yes, you clear the easy mode, do you really think that makes you capable of clearing the "normal" mode?

if you can't dodge divebombs in T5, you will never clear that. if you can't dodge plumes in titan ex, you will never clear that ( and you have 2 "easymode" titan, too!)
easy mode or not.
nobody will do a lootless content, if you want to practice, might as well do the real thing, if by some miracles, or the party skills, you clear it, you get the loot too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Unfortunately I must admit that OP is just one of many thinking like this.
Me and my FC helped a new FC mate get through Turn 5 yesterday evening, but we had to pug a random DPS.
We got a dragoon who must have been around ilvl 100 judging from his gear, yet he failed at basic stuff like conflags, divebombs and twisters. He swiftly abandoned the group after whining (luckily for us, I must say).

There are lots of people who believe that their gear makes the difference. Lots of people who think that they should be able to roflstomp content just because they pay a subscription.

---

I've been seeing stuff like that a lot too. The other problem with players over-value the difference gear makes is that they often do not get any better until they max out their gear because "I just need better gear" is always used to excuse mistakes, preventing the player from taking a critical look at what they did and what they could have done better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dejavutwo

they often do not get any better until they max out their gear because "I just need better gear" is always used to excuse mistakes, preventing the player from taking a critical look at what they did and what they could have done better.

---

ever considered that what you think you know may not exactly what the reality is ? ever considered that what you see on your screen, may not be what others see on their screen ? ever thought that this game is open to all and not just to an *elite* ? and that before being an *elite* you need to go through mistakes errors and trials PROVIDED stuff out of yourhands doesnt occur ? you have ? good then why are we having this conversation ? right ?

This to say that some players are prone to insult bash and the rest other players based on their experience, gears arent all, same as buff is not all, but if you max out gears and have buff (though here I am not totally ina greement) it does help to finish a given thing right ? How many players have I heard bash other players becasue they didnt have their gears maxed out, gears that were only obtainable in the dungeon where they were ? too many in my opinion

What does it matter to those that claim this or that dungeon is easy that some tiny minor adjustmetns are made in order to make it so that others having difficulties, no matter what the difficulties is, can actually enjoy the game ? no difference, was easy before changes is still the same easy after changes...I think people are just plain selfish and only consider their little person rather then the big picture and more importantly, that the average player is the major constitunat of the player base and not the *elite* ....which SE has very well understood, otherwise changes like echo wouldnt have occured.


Mei

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

*snip*

---

you can't compare dungeons to high endgame contents.
you have plenty of time, with dungeons, story, quest, and whatever, to learn how to play efficiently your job.

if by the time you get to EXprimals/coils, you still haven't learned how to play your job, you won't be able to do anything.
yes, mistakes happens to people. everyone screw up is rotation sometimes, fail to dodge an aoe, you get distracted by a flying pig.
human beings aren't perfect.
but if you continue to repeat every time the same mistake then the problem is, you don't know how to play your class.
and THAT is a problem.
and doesn't deserve a nerf on endgame contents.

Quote:

---

only consider their little person rather then the big picture

---

DUH, gurl.
we are talking about people. human beings. not gods.
everyone thinks for themself. even you.
we just adapt to other people, because we need to stick to a party, to play.
"think of the greater picture", what are we, predicators?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dejavutwo

snip

---

Well yes, gear can only carry you so far, having some measure of skill is necessary. As Mei already said, you can't make assumptions and sweeping generalisations about every single player, which I see a lot of people doing on these forums. In fact, it hardly ever seems to happen in-game, just here :/ How do you know that they aren't going to go away and try to improve on their skills and do better? Why can't some people get that others take longer to learn things and just need more practice? Is it the age or something? Older people just seem to be more patient and tolerant overall? I know that's not true though :) Just feels like a load of kids screaming "hurry up, hurry up, do it right or you CAN'T PLAY cos you SUCK!" whilst throwing their toys at you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by micropanther7

Well yes, gear can only carry you so far, having some measure of skill is necessary. As Mei already said, you can't make assumptions and sweeping generalisations about every single player, which I see a lot of people doing on these forums. In fact, it hardly ever seems to happen in-game, just here :/ How do you know that they aren't going to go away and try to improve on their skills and do better? Why can't some people get that others take longer to learn things and just need more practice? Is it the age or something? Older people just seem to be more patient and tolerant overall? I know that's not true though :) Just feels like a load of kids screaming "hurry up, hurry up, do it right or you CAN'T PLAY cos you SUCK!" whilst throwing their toys at you.

---

But that's sort of the thing. They CAN learn to do it in a relatively short amount of time. They just don't want to. Yes, don't want to. I always see Mei bring this argument. And it sickens me. It plays people down like they can't get better or that they are very slow learners and such, and that is just degrading to people in general. People CAN easily do better than they are. They choose not to because they feel they shouldn't have to put forth that much effort because it's a game. Because they feel doing so makes it a job.

They are welcome to feel like that. However, not all parts of this game are for them at that point. And they need to deal with that. Coil is optional, they don't have to do it if they aren't willing to put forth the required effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Being new to MMOs makes them less capable of following simple "when X happens do Y" instructions?

Are these people given a driver's license? Because if so I'm scared.

---

how many driving lessons you need though before you being able to drive a car on your own ? eh?

It may sicken you Ispano but it doesnt any less make it a reality eh?...you assume that people are bad, without knowing, you assume they dont awnt to put forth the effort without knowing if they actually factually dont do the best they can with what they know and have .. you generalize and overall represent why this game is going downhill...the silliness isnt in those that fail but in those that believe they are some superior entitiy that can look down on others based on what they believe reality should be like (virtual reality that is). Now I have met genuine nice players and I was able to improve thanks to them but they so far and in between that it makes them a rare thing.. and when it happens is such a pleasure to work with them and play the game.

Besides, in a group there are others 7 players with you...some events you can control others you cant...I would recomment humility when playing in a group oh wait, what am I thinking humility...wht a silyl word (irony)


Mei

Yeah Ispano, I do agree there, about not wanting to learn! Very good points you brought up, it is true, some people just don't wish to, and feel some of the harder content is impossible for them, or just don't enjoy it. And I do agree that there's a difference between people who refuse to learn, and others who do wish to yet find it harder than most (can see why someone might find that insulting as well). I just object to people on both sides of the fence giving others a hard time, stop bickering and get playing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how many driving lessons you need though before you being able to drive a car on your own ? eh?

Mei

---

it depends on people.
there are "naturals" , and there are slow learner.
that is the distinction between the so-called "elitist" and the "casual player" ( kind of.)

then again, based on this example, I've seen people failing their driving license lots and lots of times.
because they don't want to put effort in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how many driving lessons you need though before you being able to drive a car on your own ? eh?

Mei

---

Depends on how willing that person is to force themselves to actually learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

how many driving lessons you need though before you being able to drive a car on your own ? eh?

It may sicken you Ispano but it doesnt any less make it a reality eh?...you assume that people are bad, without knowing, you assume they dont awnt to put forth the effort without knowing if they actually factually dont do the best they can with what they know and have .. you generalize and overall represent why this game is going downhill...the silliness isnt in those that fail but in those that believe they are some superior entitiy that can look down on others based on what they believe reality should be like (virtual reality that is). Now I have met genuine nice players and I was able to improve thanks to them but they so far and in between that it makes them a rare thing.. and when it happens is such a pleasure to work with them and play the game.

Besides, in a group there are others 7 players with you...some events you can control others you cant...I would recomment humility when playing in a group oh wait, what am I thinking humility...wht a silyl word (irony)


Mei

---

No, YOU'RE the one assuming people are bad. With things like "they might learn slower than you" That's basically saying that some people aren't as good. I do NOT think that way. I feel that everyone, outside of obvious exceptions(mental conditions and many other things) CAN do better than they do most of the time. We're all humans, and while we do have differences, we all have pretty much the same capacity to learn. I say what I do about not wanting to put in the effort because I SEE it. People literally say it's "too much like a job" "it's too much work" "I don't want to work that hard, it's just a game"

So, no, YOUR view is the one putting people down and assuming they're bad automatically. I assume they CAN do better, and if they don't within a reasonable amount of attempts, they don't want to try. If you see a mechanic is killing you. Or if someone points it out to you. You should not be dying to that same mechanic 10, 20 or more attempts after that. And, yet, people are.

So, again, Almost everyone has the ability to learn quickly and the like. They choose not to. And if they choose not to put in the effort for a given piece of content, they should not be there. Nor should they expect drastic nerfs either.

One last thing, a big part of learning is KNOWING your weaknesses in that regard and compensating for them. Many people don't even look at that however, they feel they're plenty good enough. Good players rarely think they are good enough. They always feel they could be doing better, doing more and such. There's even a study about this mentality. It may just be a study, but it fits really well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by micropanther7

Yeah Ispano, I do agree there, about not wanting to learn! Very good points you brought up, it is true, some people just don't wish to, and feel some of the harder content is impossible for them, or just don't enjoy it. And I do agree that there's a difference between people who refuse to learn, and others who do wish to yet find it harder than most (can see why someone might find that insulting as well). I just object to people on both sides of the fence giving others a hard time, stop bickering and get playing!

---

Indeed. I know someone on my server who cannot use one side of his body. So he can only play with one hand. Yet he does better than many others who CAN use both hands, because he puts for the effort to play well and compensate for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

you assume that people are bad, without knowing, you assume they dont awnt to put forth the effort without knowing if they actually factually dont do the best they can with what they know and have .. you generalize

---

you are kind of doing the same thing.
you generalize based on what you probably have seen while playing.
If I'm running a dungeon and a scholar doesn't use Protect&Stoneskin because "I don't have it"
if I'm running a dungeon and a whm NEVER uses Esuna or don't raises people because "there's the shortcut, use it"
if a dps completely ignores the aggro bar and spam AoEs and attacks ignoring completely the tank
if a tank takes ALL the AoEs from a boss, or can't keep aggro

then yes.
you are bad at what you are doing. and you are a bad player.
and I'm not talking about Sastasha/Tam-Tara or Halatali easy mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

snip

---

You're right, one can never know what's going on, but if that person doesn't communicate at ALL or even try, or cuss you out... what can you do? Some people really really don't want to learn, they even turn off chat!! *raaaage* LOL they just wanna play like they're on their tod like they're not with anyone else, which is fine if you're solo but if you're in a team.... Which is kind of sucky for other people in the team I should imagine. This is why I don't think Ispano was generalising at all, I've seen it happen, and when I've tried to teach people myself, using auto-translate, in /s, /p cha, and still get ignored.. but yes, you quite correct that each situation is situational, and one shouldn't judge. But what would you do in a situation like that? When even emoting gets no response at all?

Takes me aaages to learn things, what I thought I couldn't do before I can do now, and more challenging it is, the better cos it makes me a better healer and I love that <3 anyways feel like this thread is getting derailed D: Endgame content should stay as it is... anyways some things will probably get nerfed at a later date because of expansions!

I just completed Titan extreme last night, then went into garuda ex for some fun. She died quickly. As many infuriating, tear hours as was spent on these DON'T nerf them even more. I like my fights difficult when they say they're gonna be.

Yeah this game really isn't that hard. For the most part, each individual class is not really that difficult to play, and most of the game's difficulty lies within the game mechanics.

But these mechanics aren't extremely difficult either. You just have to see them a couple times and focus. I don't believe that a person who is genuinely trying to improve their game will wipe to the same mechanics over and over. It's not hard to move over a bit during a twister cast. You just need to know when its coming and focus, which neither things are hard to do. Study the fight when you aren't playing. DF it for practice, but if you genuinely put the effort into learning the fights then you really shouldn't be wiping 20+ times to the same mechanics unless you are under 12 years old or something.

There are many other games out there (DOTA, StarCraft, CounterStrike) that are much more difficult mechanically and require much more practice than FFXIV. If you put forth the effort, this game is easy. The hardest part of the game is not mastering the mechanics, it's finding 7 other people that can master it as well. I will chalk up "bad" players to having a lack of effort in mastering the mechanics/class as opposed to genuinely being unable to play this game at a high level.

Honestly, this is the same argument when students say they're "bad at math." No, you aren't. You just don't want to put the effort into learning it.