Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

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07-17-2014, 05:17 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, to rephrase an earlier post of mine...

Why do you feel the need to incentivize it for the non raiding crowd?

The incentives are not for the non-raiding crowd. The incentives would be for the raiders to keep raiding after the initial clear. There is very very very very little incentive to raid at this point if you have a t9 weapon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exstal

You forgot a key word, "some". I only raid for the gear, as does my group. After you beat it once, there is no more challenge since you've got it down after you've done it once. To say it's challenging after you've already beat it is folly.

Pretty much this. Most raiders I know love power acquisition. Raiders tend to enjoy the growth of power that comes with raiding. Tanks can pull more trash, healers can keep people alive through crazy situations, and dps can make a myth speed run in brayflox take under 5 mins.

There is so little power acquisition left to be had in SCoB. If enough oils and sands can be farmed up in a few weeks to make all your soldiery gear ilvl110, SCoB loses some intrinsic value.
07-17-2014, 05:18 AM
Velox

Quote:

Originally Posted by ispano

Most simply do it for the rewards.

I don't deny that. I actually think it's kind of sad how shallow gamers have become over the years where material wealth/power is all that matters. Guess it's just my age showing at this point. I just love a good challenge. Then again, I also love the world lore, the stories (both main and side), and randomly bumping into RPers and joining in for the laughs. There seems to be fewer and fewer of these kinds of people as well.
07-17-2014, 05:18 AM
Welsper59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimsvaliant

Watching someone eat the cake isn't the same as eating the cake.

Not the most appropriate saying to use here, given that getting the cutscene yourself and watching someone else get the same cutscene is primarily just a matter of visual stimulation. There's no other senses/functions in play, like taste/smell/texture(feel)/etc.
07-17-2014, 05:21 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Weapons and storyline are really only rewards for clearing t9, t6-t8 is pretty much worthless atm aside from BiS. BiS is really only a 5-10% dps boost.

Here you go raiders, the rewards for spend months progressing through SCoB, a 10% dps boost.

Trivialize it all you want, but people do care about that.

In addition to my previous reasons I want to add that we do it for the challenge. It's fun because it's difficult.
07-17-2014, 05:22 AM
Kaethra

I'm sorta on the fence about this. And the reason for it is would I want someone in a hard encounter who is there to defeat the encounter or the one who is wanting the gear to drop? Well everyone's answer is going to be the former obviously, right? The question you have to ask yourself is do you have enough people to defeat the encounters, or do you need the greedy ones to help fill out the roster?

Locking gear behind raid mobs doesn't make greedy people less greedy, we know this. Or we should know this. But what else can be done to change people to want to do the content over getting the loot it drops? Your heavy raider, like the one who plays these games to raid (not the one trying to get all shined up compared to their fellows) wants to do content. How do you get more people to be like them?

Is it something SE can change or is it a gaming communal culture change that needs to happen by the players? <---- this question isn't rhetorical
07-17-2014, 05:23 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Trivialize it all you want, but people do care about that.

In addition to my previous reasons I want to add that we do it for the challenge. It's fun because it's difficult.

So, Heroic raiders in wow should only be able to do 10% more dps than a person that does not ever step foot into a raid? That is fair to you?
07-17-2014, 05:26 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

So, Heroic raiders in wow should only be able to do 10% more dps than a person that grinds dungeons all day? That is fair to you?

People will do it. Get over it.

In 2.0 Myth and Coil gear were the same ilvl, and a ton of people still did coil regardless. You fears are completely unfounded, or founded only in that you want better loots so you can lorde it over other people. Get over it.
07-17-2014, 05:29 AM
Nutz

It's probably not working out quite like they intended, but maybe it is for the majority and we're just seeing the fringes. In any case I think SE intended for players who needed a bit of a boost/ people with awful luck to slowly acquire sands/ oils from hunts such that they could be fully i110 before the next patch, or perhaps a month or so before the next patch. I don't think they intended people to get several hundred, if not thousands of allied seals daily or even weekly. Obviously some people are going to do that, but I don't think very many are compared to the total population. Again, I think we're looking at the fringes and the average player probably has only killed a handful of rank As and perhaps some Bs and an S.

Many people, myself included, will still want to do SCoB for less tedious gear acquisition, better looking gear, a challenge, and to progress the story. Personally my problem is no longer having a static and having a fairly irregular schedule that makes getting a new one difficult. The specific entry requirements for SCoB (and BCoB before it) are a much more significant deterrent for would be raiders than the ability to get good gear without raiding.
07-17-2014, 05:29 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

People will do it. Get over it.

In 2.0 Myth and Coil gear were the same ilvl, and a ton of people still did coil regardless. You fears are completely unfounded, or founded only in that you want better loots so you can lorde it over other people. Get over it.

Way to avoid the question. Do you think it is fair for WoW heroic raiders to only perform 10% than people who do LFR?

I think any reasonable person would say no. But the entitlement culture grows strong in MMO's.
07-17-2014, 05:31 AM
Black91CRX

I've been doing hunts for two days and only have 300 seals to show for it. Where's my handout?
07-17-2014, 05:34 AM
Illya

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Way to avoid the question. Do you think it is fair for WoW heroic raiders to only perform 10% than people who do LFR?

I think any reasonable person would say no. But the entitlement culture grows strong in MMO's.

No one here cares about what WoW does. But since you know so much about WoW you know how many players in WoW actually raid. It's a small percentage of the population, despite the very structured tiering of raid rewards. The fact is only a small number of MMO players are in it for the e-peen like you. Most MMO players play MMOs for other reasons. If you love the WoW raid tiering system so much, go play WoW. No one here will miss you.
07-17-2014, 05:35 AM
Zarzak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangela

then they need to nerf BCoB T5 first, in order to let more ppl enter SCoB.

endgame content in general is too hard for 90% of the players. don't use yourself and your FC friends as a standard. I think it's very dumb to create new content that only 5-10% of the playerbase can do. ok let's make half of the content super hard to make 10% of the players keep subscribing and screw the other 90% who can't enjoy these content because they're bad players!! I don't think it's gonna work in the long-term. so having optional i110 gears for casuals is the right thing to do.

No. This is the EASIEST end game content any remotely successful MMO has had pretty much ever.

The ONLY things people have to do to beat T5 is

1. move when Twintania starts casting the spell known as "twister"
2. move under twin if you have a conflag symbol on your head
3. move to the marked spot if you have a fireball on your head (or not move at all if you do that strat)
4. move when Twintania starts to cast divebomb

I'm sorry but this "people can't do the content because it's too hard" excuse isn't going to fly. If someone can't beat this simple event with 20% stats AND a extra 10+ ilvls (aka healing, tanking, and dps is no issue and the only thing to do is follow 4 mechanics) then they aren't simply bad. They aren't even trying. Takes more coordination to drive yourself to work in the morning. "omg a red circle on that light what do I do!?!?!?!?!"

For your benefit though I will provide a step by step set of instructions for Turn 5.

Step 1: Tanks engage pick one of the adds and do your rotation until it dies.
Step 2: move to another add and repeat.
Step 3: move to the last add and repeat.
Step 4: move to Twintania and do your rotation
Step 5: Collar piece falls off. Hold until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 6a. If not go to step 6b.
Step 6a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 6b: Move to Twintania and continue your rotation.
Step 6: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 7a. If not go to 7b.
Step 7a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 7b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears.
Step 8: DPS conflag until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 9a. If not go to step 9b.
Step 9a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 9b: Continue dpsing conflag until it dies.
Step 10: Once conflag is dead go back to dpsing Twin.
Step 11: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 12a. If not go to 12b.
Step 12a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 12b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears. This is a short conflag pop short burns and dps conflag until it dies.
Step 13: repeat Steps 6-12 until a 2nd collar piece drops.
Step 14: Move to divebomb position (designated before pull)
Step 15: When green circle appears (or if you have Twin on focus as soon as she appears back on focus target) run forward 10 steps.
Step 16: Move back to divebomb position.
Step 17: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times.
Step 18: Target large snake in middle and while positioning at divebomb position dps for 45 seconds.
Step 19: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times while continuing to dps large snake.
Step 20: Repeat step 15 but this time continue running forward following the tanks and dpsing the large snake.
Step 21: Kill large snake. (don't worry about small snakes Mr. Melee the casters will handle them)
Step 22: stand in one of the previously dropped collar pieces until Twin finishes her cast.
Step 23: Attack Twin until she begins to cast Twister.
Step 24: Once twister begins casting run without crossing your own or anyone elses path until cast finishes.
Step 25: Go back to dpsing Twin while avoiding any green markers on the ground you may see.
Step 26: Dreadknight will spawn in the middle of the room. Run away from it until it has picked its target. If you go to step 27a. If not go to 27b.
Step 27a: Your stun locked. Enjoy the break to regen some TP and cheer your fellow dps on for keeping you from dying a horrible death.
Step 27b: One of your friends is stun locked!!!! Shoulder Tackle or Jump to that mean Dreadknight and kill it before your poor friend meets an untimely death.
Step 28: Repeat steps 23-27 until the final piece of collar drops.
Step 29: No more of those annoying twisters or Dreadknights! DPS twintania to victory! If she starts shooting fireballs at you see Step 30.
Step 30: FIRE RUN!!!!!!! (until it stops at least then back to Step 29!)
07-17-2014, 05:35 AM
Exstal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illya

No one here cares about what WoW does. But since you know so much about WoW you know how many players in WoW actually raid. It's a small percentage of the population, despite the very structured tiering of raid rewards. The fact is only a small number of MMO players are in it for the e-peen like you. Most MMO players play MMOs for other reasons. If you love the WoW raid tiering system so much, go play WoW. No one here will miss you.

It's called an example.
07-17-2014, 05:36 AM
Xystic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Snip

I don't recall many FCs destroying twintania prior to the nerf.
07-17-2014, 05:38 AM
Zarzak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skander

who might not be performing quite to your standards.

The problem with people is not that they don't perform to other raiders standards. They don't perform to the standards of these undertuned events.

Could fill a small country with people who can't manage things like "look away when you have voice and don't stand near other people and get fireballed"

or even better a small country of people in ilvl 100 gear who are pulling 200 dps.
07-17-2014, 05:39 AM
Nekodar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I've been doing hunts for two days and only have 300 seals to show for it. Where's my handout?

The handouts are obviously only for people that cheat, pull early and does everything they can to prevent others from getting credit from elite marks. Oh, and also have no life so they can run around killing elite marks all day long.
07-17-2014, 05:40 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illya

No one here cares about what WoW does. But since you know so much about WoW you know how many players in WoW actually raid. It's a small percentage of the population, despite the very structured tiering of raid rewards. The fact is only a small number of MMO players are in it for the e-peen like you. Most MMO players play MMOs for other reasons. If you love the WoW raid tiering system so much, go play WoW. No one here will miss you.

It was an example. If I obviously cared so much about wow, I would be playing that game.

But dodge the question, it's a simple yes or no answer. Do you think it is fair for WoW heroic raiders to only perform 10% than people who do LFR? Is it really fair the more dedicated players who invested much more than the average player only have a 10% performance boost to show for it be the only lasting reward?

There is some real mental gymnastics in this thread protecting such strong entitlement. I wish people like you were in charge of the world, I could go pick up my free BMW just for venturing outside of my house.
07-17-2014, 05:41 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Way to avoid the question. Do you think it is fair for WoW heroic raiders to only perform 10% than people who do LFR?

I think any reasonable person would say no. But the entitlement culture grows strong in MMO's.

Yes, it's fair. Only those entitled feel like they deserve more. It's not that big of a deal. Like I said. Get over it.

For the record I do raid. I'm currently practicing T9 with my static. I don't care if my friends with less time get i110. I'll have better gear in the end that looks far more badass than the soldiery gear, I will have had a great experience playing with my friends, I will have experienced a part of the story before most of the player base, I will have had fun tackling a challenging encounter and coming out on top. It's not all about having a bigger number.

You seem to think entitlement only goes one way. Players feel entitled to get easy good gear seems to be your opinion.
I'm here to inform you it swings both ways. You clearly feel entitled to better gear than others.

The entitlement is strong in this one.
07-17-2014, 05:42 AM
Zarzak

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

It was an example. If I obviously cared so much about wow, I would be playing that game.

But dodge the question, it's a simple yes or no answer. Do you think it is fair for WoW heroic raiders to only perform 10% than people who do LFR? Is it really fair the more dedicated players who invested much more than the average player only have a 10% performance boost to show for it be the only lasting reward?

There is some real mental gymnastics in this thread protecting such strong entitlement. I wish people like you were in charge of the world, I could go pick up my free BMW just for venturing outside of my house.

THE HELL!?!?!?!?! I HAVE TO VENTURE OUTSIDE MY HOUSE FOR MY BMW!!?!?!?!?!?!?

I DEMAND IT BE PUT IN MY GARAGE FOR ME BECAUSE I WOKE UP TODAY!!!!

/sarcasm off

Yes please entitled generation take over the country and give me my paycheck for doing absolutely nothing but showing up.

Funny how it's a surprise these days when you suggest something like "the more effort you put in the more you get back"
07-17-2014, 05:42 AM
Krr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I've been doing hunts for two days and only have 300 seals to show for it. Where's my handout?

Hidden inside the A- and S-rank pinatas, waiting for the RNG god to deem that a bloodied log falls into your inventory six times in a row.
07-17-2014, 05:43 AM
Nel_Celestine

High Allagan gear. Only comes from running Second Coil of Bahamut.
http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...6ufls43aof.jpg

Gerwolt Masterworks (Soldiery Gear). Obtained via Soldiery tomes and upgraded via Hunts, Syrcus Tower and Second Coil of Bahamut.
http://images.kdramastars.com/data/i...-png.png?w=600

To obtain Best in Slot, one needs only run Second Coil and those whom consider themselves raiders have done so for well over three months now. Those not raiding second coil are now gearing up in another method but will ~NOT~ have best in slot gear. They can then use their current upgraded gear IF THEY SO CHOOSE to run Second Coil and obtain best in slot before 2.4.

If you feel the need to show off how much better you are as a raider by numbers rather than actions you can wait until 2.4 then. Otherwise go ahead and fill your small country with all the 'bad' players. (since apparently a small country is around 2 million people or less?) Just remember who pays for the development of your next tier of shiny shiny loot that you want to rub in people's faces.
07-17-2014, 05:45 AM
Archulak

Prediction: ilvl gets raised in 2.4 no one cares about hunts at all, 2.5 items at ilvl cap added to hunts so people stop moaning and to catch up to raiders for the next major patch

TL;DL - 2.3 is a catch-up patch who cares what people get when it will all be replaced in 3 months...........
07-17-2014, 05:46 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Yes, it's fair. Only those entitled feel like they deserve more. It's not that big of a deal. Like I said. Get over it.

lol, I would love to work with you, where ever it is that you're employed, if you're even employed at all. I will sit on my hands all day and you can do the work, as long as we both get the same paycheck at the end of the day. Oh, and since I am a good sport, I will give you 10% of my pay, just so you can feel properly rewarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

To obtain Best in Slot, one needs only run Second Coil and those whom consider themselves raiders have done so for well over three months now. Those not raiding second coil are now gearing up in another method but will ~NOT~ have best in slot gear. They can then use their current upgraded gear IF THEY SO CHOOSE to run Second Coil and obtain best in slot before 2.4.

You greatly over estimate the benefits of BiS. It's on par with a 10% performance boost in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

You seem to think entitlement only goes one way. Players feel entitled to get easy good gear seems to be your opinion.
I'm here to inform you it swings both ways. You clearly feel entitled to better gear than others.

The entitlement is strong in this one.

Yes I feel entitled, I can admit that. Unlike some of the non-raiders here.

I feel entitled because I spend millions of gil on food and pots for cutting edge progression.

I feel entitled because I show up to my raid nights many weeks and don't get any loot despite having seen the content over and over again.

I feel entitled because of all the practice, time, and effort I put into learning these fights.

Yes, I am entitled. Its different from a casual player's sense of entitlement which is "I want what they have for less effort because I pay the same sub fee."
07-17-2014, 05:49 AM
Edli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzak

No. This is the EASIEST end game content any remotely successful MMO has had pretty much ever.

Bullcrap! If it is oh so easy like you say it is then how come nobody could beat twin for ages in the beginning? I remember well the threads where people actually settled on the fact that twin was unkillable and wait for new gear sets to come out.

The easiest endgame content out of every MMO? Don't exaggerate so much. You think we haven't played these other MMOs?
07-17-2014, 05:50 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

lol, I would love to work with you, where ever it is that you're employed, if you're even employed at all. I will sit on my hands all day and you can do the work, as long as we both get the same paycheck at the end of the day. Oh, and since I am a good sport, I will give you 10% of my pay, just so you can feel properly rewarded.

You seem to think those players aren't doing anything at all. Did you completely forget they have to first farm solidery for weeks on end to get i100 gear? Then did you also forget they have to farm the living crap out of hunts to get 7 sands? That's 5250 Allied Seals. That will take many week/months for a casual player. This coming from people who aren't hardcore players running coil after all. They arent so dedicated to blowing out all 7 in one week of constant hunts. You seem to think this gear practically falls into their lap and that couldn't be further from the truth. They aren't sitting around and doing nothing. They are earning it too. Just not the same way you are.

Your analogy is a failed attempt to disparage and insult me and it doesn't even take into account what's actually happening. It's time to grow up. It's time to get over it.
07-17-2014, 05:51 AM
Nel_Celestine

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

You greatly over estimate the benefits of BiS. It's on par with a 10% performance boost in most cases.

If you really are a Hardcore raider. 10% is 10% more then they will be doing and you will look more stylish in High Allagan. What more do you want?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

lol, I would love to work with you, where ever it is that you're employed, if you're even employed at all. I will sit on my hands all day and you can do the work, as long as we both get the same paycheck at the end of the day. Oh, and since I am a good sport, I will give you 10% of my pay, just so you can feel properly rewarded.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...7-55-00-85.jpg

So much for that theory. Please try again with how things are just handed to players.
07-17-2014, 05:52 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

If you really are a Hardcore raider. 10% is 10% more then they will be doing and you will look more stylish in High Allagan. What more do you want?

He also seems to forget that when you're doing say 350 DPS that 10% is 35 more DPS. It's not insignificant.
07-17-2014, 05:57 AM
Exstal

You know, these people are right. Let them have their i110. Gear doesn't cure stupidity.
07-17-2014, 05:57 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

You seem to think those players aren't doing anything at all. Did you completely forget they have to first farm solidery for weeks on end to get i100 gear? Then did you also forget they have to farm the living crap out of hunts to get 7 sands? That's 5250 Allied Seals. That will take many week/months for a casual player. This coming from people who aren't hardcore players running coil after all. They arent so dedicated to blowing out all 7 in one week of constant hunts. You seem to think this gear practically falls into their lap and that couldn't be further from the truth. They aren't sitting around and

doing nothing. They are earning it too. Just not the same way you are.

Your analogy is a failed attempt to disparage and insult me and it doesn't even take into account what's actually happening. It's time to grow up. It's time to get over it.

Lets not pretend the the effort from hunts + solidery capping is equivocal to the time, effort, and resources you spent learning t6-t8. You can fool yourself and say that some how the two efforts are equivalent, but they are not.

The absurd post I made was to highlight what an idiotic notion it seems to be that it is fair when effort is not proportional to reward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

If you really are a Hardcore raider. 10% is 10% more then they will be doing and you will look more stylish in High Allagan. What more do you want?

How about a mount you can only get while the raid is current content? How about a title for clearing T9 ten times before the next raid patch? There is plenty of places to add rewards to the raiding scene.
07-17-2014, 05:59 AM
Zarzak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edli

Bullcrap! If it is oh so easy like you say it is then how come nobody could beat twin for ages in the beginning? I remember well the threads where people actually settled on the fact that twin was unkillable and wait for new gear sets to come out.

The easiest endgame content out of every MMO? Don't exaggerate so much. You think we haven't played these other MMOs?

Hello Kitty Island adventure doesn't count. Hell World of Warcraft.. the game that made pandering to the lowest common denominator mainstream is harder than FFXIV 2.0 raiding.
07-17-2014, 06:01 AM
Tiggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Lets not pretend the the effort from hunts + solidery capping is equivocal to the time, effort, and resources you spent learning t6-t8. You can fool yourself and say that some how the two efforts are equivalent, but they are not.

The absurd post I made was to highlight what an idiotic notion it seems to be that it is fair when effort is not proportional to reward.

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.
07-17-2014, 06:03 AM
Krr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

He also seems to forget that when you're doing say 350 DPS that 10% is 35 more DPS. It's not insignificant.

I think the take-away here is that the people who care about 35 more DPS are probably the people in SCOB to begin with, and everyone else just wants something pug-friendly and relevant to do.

I don't see how it hurts the serious raiding community so badly that randos don't want to go to SCOB. It hurts semi-casual PUG raiders a lot, mind.
07-17-2014, 06:03 AM
Nel_Celestine

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Lets not pretend the the effort from hunts + solidery capping is equivocal to the time, effort, and resources you spent learning t6-t8. You can fool yourself and say that some how the two efforts are equivalent, but they are not.

The absurd post I made was to highlight what an idiotic notion it seems to be that it is fair when effort is not proportional to reward.

Raiders have had access and acquired both High Allagan and upgrade items for Soldiery for three months. If you really think that hunts is making people not raid perhaps you need to re-evaluate and look for another root of the problem. Maybe your raid group or others are raid fatigued? Maybe they want a break and try something else. Maybe it's only been a week and a day since the patch went live and they are doing new content for a change of pace. Trying for force non-raiders to raid is a losing battle. Trying to demand that non-raiders get no progression is financial suicide. If you are not content with non-raiding folk catching up with non-best in slot gear after three months of exclusive access then there is something wrong with you, not the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

This, a thousand times this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krr

I think the take-away here is that the people who care about 35 more DPS are probably the people in SCOB to begin with, and everyone else just wants something pug-friendly and relevant to do.

I don't see how it hurts the serious raiding community so badly that randos don't want to go to SCOB. It hurts semi-casual PUG raiders a lot, mind.

Exactly! If you are in a static for second coil, what does it matter where and when others acquire gear? Do your best with your group. If you aren't aiming for world first then it doesn't really matter and in the end even that won't matter for long either.
07-17-2014, 06:05 AM
JTribal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effort into learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

Tiggy, your response has earned you a proposal once the marriage system comes out.
07-17-2014, 06:07 AM
Isus

my 2 cents - farming coils (original or 2nd coil) gives players options for gear, whether it's for ilevel or glamores. In 1.0 everyone eventually ended up in the same "uniform" for their job once they reached their max play potential. The same was true for 2.0 until the glamore system was released. I personally love the look of the BLM set from the original coils - just lacking the pants. Do I NEED ilvl 90 gear for my BLM, nope - I can get the soldiery gear or the ST gear no problem. Does that mean I'm gonna stop farming T4 till I get my pants, nope. Same goes for my weapon. I'm 1/2 way through the Animus books and have already started hoarding materia for my novus. that does not mean I don't want the WHM weapon from coil, or the bow while I work on getting my second atma. Besides, I'm lucky enough to have a great static to raid with, so even if I didn't need the gear/ want the gear, I'd still be raiding with my friends.
07-17-2014, 06:08 AM
cryptic_angel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggy

It doesn't need to be equivocal. Raiders aren't the only people who play this game, and you are not a king among men because you ran t6-t8. I'm not fooling myself of anything, but you apparently are if you think you are that important for running 3 bosses. I recognize that other people don't have time to raid and they don't deserve to have terrible gear forever. I also recognize that I put a lot of effortinto learning these runs. The simple fact is I don't need their experience to be the same as mine to be wielding decent gear. I don't share your sense of entitlement. Deal with it.

ilvl 100 gear with an ilvl 110 weapon is not horrible gear. The performance disparity between ilvl 100 with a novus and ilvl 110 bis with HA weapon is not large at all. You are exaggerating what non-raiders have available to them.

You make it seem like weathered solidery gear and novus weapons are practically AF1 gear. They are not.

It's fantastic that you don't care about other people and what they have. Great for you, Wish I was that way, but I am not. I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.
07-17-2014, 06:09 AM
Edli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Hello Kitty Island adventure doesn't count. Hell World of Warcraft.. the game that made pandering to the lowest common denominator mainstream is harder than FFXIV 2.0 raiding.

You really love showing off don't you? I bet you're going to come up with some old game that only you have played and we don't understand.

You still didn't answer my question, instead you throw some pointless internet meme at me.
07-17-2014, 06:12 AM
Sonofbaldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

As much as I care about raiding too, I think this game is set on shooting itself in the foot when it comes to developing a great end game for high end gamers. I am sure I am not the only one to notice that less and less people are doing dungeon guides and streams of FF14.

The game will be fine, sure; however, you can see that the high end players who make content, such as youtube videos about dungeons, are starting to flee. Who can blame them really. This game offers little to the high end raider.

Personally you have nobody to blame but yourselves. The reason is gamer impatience and I'm not just talking about people who are going to take the path of least resistance to get the gear. People demand to make it to End Game too quickly. You fly through the meat and potatoes of the game in a month as a casual gamer, probably a week as a hardcore gamer, and then what's next? You want SE to pump out mass amounts of content because you demand a game that takes little time, effort, or skill to master in the first place.

To me the game should make you grind out levels and take 6 months for a casual gamer to reach End Game...if not longer. Those days are long over and SE has bowed to the WoW crowd for the sake of money which baffles me. At XI's height when it was a challenging game there were 3 times the subscriptions that XIV has and XIV has already peaked. So people fly through fluff content in a fluff world, run out of stuff to do and disappear because these easy to beat games lack staying power.

Unfortunately SE is so concerned with trying to please everyone at the same time that they simply made 2 versions of an inferior gaming experience. It doesnt take that many subscriptions to make an MMO financially stable. It's just a matter of profit. XI blows XIV out of the water and SE hardly even advertised XI. I mean old XI. Pre-Wings of the Goddess which signaled it's downfall as SE nerfed the entire world at the whim of WoW-like gamers.

XIV is a decent game for its generation. I will say it's better than anything that's out there that I know of. But in barely over a month I'm max level and hitting i90 in gear and completed the main story, which was lacking to begin with without all of the watching disjointed cut scenes because the majority of tanks and healers dont want to wait for people to watch a cut scene.

I've traded grinding in PTs and being forced to be social and function as a unit from my earliest days to sleeping through grinded fetch quests with overly-drawn out quests with little to no fanfare at the end to make it worth the while. When I'm done with that I get to repeatedly grind the same dungeon runs over and over and over where you basically annoy veterans of the game because you dont know how to properly function in a group expected to work together....If they pulled this in a console the game would be universally panned. See Dragon Age 2. But for some reason in an MMO it's not only accepted but preferred.

XI was the kind of game you played for 5-10 years. XIV is the kind of game you play for 1-2 at best. Subscriptions will die off like XI did after it was made too easy and you'll be left with a small community of die hards with absolutely no influx of new players. Older content will become null and void and SE will resort to just throwing shinies at you that will be just more of the same but enough to trick you into sticking it out another month or 2.
07-17-2014, 06:12 AM
Worm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

It's fantastic that you don't care about other people and what they have. Great for you, Wish I was that way, but I am not. I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.

Uhg, can it Gordon Gecko.

I agree with rarity but we're talking about a change coming a content patch earlier and only effecting upgrade tokens. Which just don't hold the prestige of HA.
07-17-2014, 06:13 AM
Nel_Celestine

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

I like nice and rare things irl and in-game. It's humant nature to desire, covet, and want things that are rare, valuable, and exclusionary by nature. Get over it, human nature is not going to change.

Then good sir/madam when would you suggest non-raiders are allowed to have any sense of progression for their characters? Once every six months? One a year? Once an expansion?

Who provided funding for you to have the unique, rare, valuable and exclusionary experiences you have had so far in second coil for the last three months? Was it just your static? Your whole FC? Perhaps only the raiding community? No, it was the entire player base that has been funding the game and thus, three months after the exclusionary content of second coil they are gearing up and can try tackling it with higher gear if they weren't confident enough before.

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