Relic quest summary -> Good by to casuals

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Originally Posted by captain_crunch

Why does a casual player (i'm assuming this means they arent running coil or coil2) even need an i110 weapon?

I dont see why you'd need more than i70 for story content.

O_o

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Just because people are "casual" doesn't mean they don't want to progress... Get outta here with that kind of attitude.

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Originally Posted by Anorex

There's nothing hard about this quest. If I had my way the final step would be beating the t9 boss for the final transformation. Do your daily quest, and wait for hunts. It's not rocket science.

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Basically this. Time investment =/= hardcore. That's basic MMO understanding 101. I fail to see how this separates hardcore from casuals.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

You can thank the 7th console gen and the Wii, with it's library of party games and shovelware, for distorting what the term "casual gamer" means within the gamer community.

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You don't blame the tools, you blame the carpenter. The general public is just too weak minded to understand what it means. They're so desperate to stand out and "be something", that they never learn (or forget) what defines something as casual play. "Casual" is, and will always be, the methodology. Is it a simpler and easier accessed means of acquisition compared to something else of equal or near-equal worth? It's a casual approach if it is. Time, to some extent, is irrelevant.

Im a hardcore player I guess and im already tired of myth grinding. 60k seems insane. They better change it so that u get myth just for logging in everyday, myth for crafting, extra myth for helping ppl, myth traveling a certain distance. Maybe clear the logs and give us myth.

Cuz, I dont care if u can speedrun everything, this is gonna be crazy.

My biggest issue is that I wish they added a different tome that u got in addition to myth and soldiery. B/c while I am grinding myth for the next 2 months, I cant use any of it on new characters.

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Originally Posted by A-Shock

Just because people are "casual" doesn't mean they don't want to progress... Get outta here with that kind of attitude.

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I suppose they/you need full i110 armor and a high allagan weapon too then?

I really dont get why people who have time to farm for the Novus just go the SCOB route instead. Sure its harder but its much less grindy and you end up with a better weapon anyways.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Novus : 60000 Myth OR 75 days of map -> 75++ Days if doing daily quest + materia melding failure wasted days

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You may want to change the bold part, or wait for comfirmation. As far as i am aware, you will only lose the Materia and not the Alexandrite. Could someone confirm or deny, who did fail an attempt?

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Originally Posted by Nero

You may want to change the bold part, or wait for comfirmation. As far as i am aware, you will only lose the Materia and not the Alexandrite. Could someone confirm or deny, who did fail an attempt?

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Folks on Reddit apparently confirmed that it's just the materia. It supposedly gives you a msg saying you won't lose the Alexandrite.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._wont_lose_it/

I won't be able to do this cause of no time

Also, while I dont think time always equals hardcore, many casual players simply cannot play as much but still love the game.

This questing can b seen from 2 perspectives. It can be seen as a casual q uestline of sorts. Instead of having to grind leviathan ex or turn 9, u can slowly do this to keep up. U will always be behind but its an alternative to higher level static content.

But it can also b viewed as SE's answer to FF11 fans who love the grind and consider it to be what separates hardcore from casual.

Kinda funny how this is. I guess it depends on the definition of casual.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Folks on Reddit apparently confirmed that it's just the materia. It supposedly gives you a msg saying you won't lose the Alexandrite.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._wont_lose_it/

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Thanks, so OP should change it then, or it would misslead people to wrong assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Whilst they are difficult (pfffft not difficult - time consuming!) to obtain, compared to XI we still have it easy whilst still keeping the spirit of what these relic quests are intended to be.

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You mean the spirit of grinding or outright buying 100s of currency while the last part of the quest (beating the weapon NM) actually being the challenging part? It's really no different here. It took longer in FFXI because of the 3 day lockout of Dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Anorex

There's nothing hard about this quest. If I had my way the final step would be beating the t9 boss for the final transformation. Do your daily quest, and wait for hunts. It's not rocket science.

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Or you know, people could wait for SCoB to get nerfed 3 months from now and they can go get a weapon that's better and probably takes less effort.

The Novus weapon is the only good alternative for people who can't complete cutting edge content as it's relevant. Until SE changes their philosophy on this, only people who can't do the best content as it's relevant or those with a lot of time to play are going to seriously pursue this.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

The Novus weapon is the only good alternative for people who can't complete cutting edge content as it's relevant. Until SE changes their philosophy on this, only people who can't do the best content as it's relevant or those with a lot of time to play are going to seriously pursue this.

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Can people stop with the assumption that only people who can't complete coil go for them? There are also those who do not like to run coil at all and those who simply want the "shiny" and like grind more than raids. Have hardly anything to do with "can't".

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Originally Posted by Nero

Thanks, so OP should change it then, or it would misslead people to wrong assumptions.

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Heh, like that'll happen. Granted, the only complaint I have about the Novus bit right now is that there's yet another 1500 myth requirement for a weapon we were told would not be restricted by tomestones. Myth for extra maps doesn't bother me in the slightest since it's optional. Now, given how SE's acting, I am half-expecting Monster Hunts to have a myth requirement, and if that ends up being the case, I'm going to run out of synonyms for annoyed/irritated/etc. to use.

2/20

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

**** TITLE TYPO ERROR : Goodbye**

Relic weapon : 1 dungeon, 3 primals, 2 trials, long quest -> 1-2 days
Zenith Weapon : 900 Myth -> 2-3 days

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I'm a bit disturbed at how flawed this post is. You see, you never took into account the precursor setups for the starting points of WHEN THEY WERE IMPLEMENTED. 900 Mythology was THREE WEEKS of waiting. Being able to do all the Primal HMs was also something a lot of people were incapable of doing, which created the whole "selling primals" scenario.

This game has always had a longer wait period when things are initially released so that it, well, lasts until new content is thrown out there. It's not that difficult to figure out.

The Relic Grind in this game reminds me of the old Jedi Unlock grind from Star Wars Galaxies. You can grind it hard to get it asap or just do it at your own pace. When I unlocked my Jedi in SWG I managed to unlock and get 70% of my Jedi completed 2 months before they changed ( nerfed ) the Unlock Process.

In FFXIV I picked Bard as my main class and just got the Rest of the Relics on the other Jobs just for the Achievement. My SCH and PLD are the only other 2 Jobs I picked to upgrade the Relics to +1.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

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I do agree with you; however, to clarify the post you were quoting, I was more or less making reference to a point in time and the thing in that point in time which help perpetuate that idea, not the thing itself. I will say again though, you made some very good points.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Can people stop with the assumption that only people who can't complete coil go for them? There are also those who do not like to run coil at all and those who simply want the "shiny" and like grind more than raids. Have hardly anything to do with "can't".

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Nero, you've really been on fire today man xD

Seriously though, I agree with you, and thanks for making that point.
For me personally, I'm hardly a casual player; and, at the same time, I don't live for raiding. I'm more of an all-around content player. Going for these kinds of things has absolutely nothing to do with the "inability" to participate in certain pieces of content.

Wtf is your definition of casual then? The entire relic quest line is so casual now

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

Wtf is your definition of casual then? The entire relic quest line is so casual now

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3. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual
a (1) : feeling or showing little concern : nonchalant <a casual approach to cooking> (2) : lacking a high degree of interest or devotion <casual sports fans> <casual readers> (3) : done without serious intent or commitment <casual sex>

Since relic quest requires a very large amount of time to complete it requires serious intent and commitment so it is not casual.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Relic weapon : 1 dungeon, 3 primals, 2 trials, long quest -> 1-2 days
Zenith Weapon : 900 Myth -> 2-3 days

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http://i.imgur.com/taqF7BH.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ambiguous

I'm a bit disturbed at how flawed this post is. You see, you never took into account the precursor setups for the starting points of WHEN THEY WERE IMPLEMENTED. 900 Mythology was THREE WEEKS of waiting. Being able to do all the Primal HMs was also something a lot of people were incapable of doing, which created the whole "selling primals" scenario.

This game has always had a longer wait period when things are initially released so that it, well, lasts until new content is thrown out there. It's not that difficult to figure out.

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this is what Im saying xD

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

Nero, you've really been on fire today man xD

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Fits my Name i guess? XD I like your Sig lol

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

Seriously though, I agree with you, and thanks for making that point.
For me personally, I'm hardly a casual player; and, at the same time, I don't live for raiding. I'm more of an all-around content player. Going for these kinds of things has absolutely nothing to do with the "inability" to participate in certain pieces of content.

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Yeah i am kind of the same. I am going for Coil, but for me personally it is not a "Main Aspect" of the Game. I am more an "old school" grind person and love time sinks. I think the Game does offer a good amount of variety, so everyone should have a certain "route" he can go for. Grinding for me is not really something "casual", since grinds are usually done with a huge amount of time put into it and for me a casual player is someone who does not play often. But yeah "casual" and "hardcore" is thrown way too often into discussion without any relation.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

Wtf is your definition of casual then? The entire relic quest line is so casual now

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Pseudopsia's definition is the most fitting. Casual approach is more about your dedication to the game than difficulty level, skill or playtime.

I think this new novus step requires too much dedication for many people to care (I won't, don't even have an animus weapon).

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Originally Posted by Nero

Can people stop with the assumption that only people who can't complete coil go for them? There are also those who do not like to run coil at all and those who simply want the "shiny" and like grind more than raids. Have hardly anything to do with "can't".

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Why would someone not want to actually try to do a piece of content available? There's important story tied behind Coil and I would think people playing an FF game would want to experience that, regardless of whatever the drops are.

Regardless of what you say, I think in most cases it comes down to can't and not won't.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Why would someone not want to actually try to do a piece of content available? There's important story tied behind Coil and I would think people playing an FF game would want to experience that, regardless of whatever the drops are.

Regardless of what you say, I think in most cases it comes down to can't and not won't.

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Like i said. I am doing coil and also doing the Zodiak Line, but Coil is not a Major Aspect for me and not for everyone. I am not saying that your assumption would not fit for certain people, but assuming it does for everyone is straight wrong. It is like saying every BLM is braindead, because all you need is to press x amount of buttons. And since i see many BLM's, which really don't play that great, would that mean they are beyond any measureable level of stupidity? Would that be right to say, or correct to assume? No it would not and is not.

http://i.imgur.com/BcFD9Wm.jpg

Playing a certain kind of content, or prefering something else than the highest Raids, does not classifiy your skill, playtime, or if you are "hardcore" or "casual". It is just personal preferences and what is fun for you.

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Originally Posted by muwa

Pseudopsia's definition is the most fitting. Casual approach is more about your dedication to the game than difficulty level, skill or playtime.

I think this new novus step requires too much dedication for many people to care (I won't, don't even have an animus weapon).

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Really? Novus requires LESS dedication IMO than Animus. Even if Monster Hunts end up being idiotic, it's still less dedication than upgrading Atma to Animus.

Do your daily, get map, do the map. Do whatever you want after that.

Materia can be obtained while leveling alts or SBing during other content unless you'd prefer spending gil for em that is.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Why would someone not want to actually try to do a piece of content available? There's important story tied behind Coil and I would think people playing an FF game would want to experience that, regardless of whatever the drops are.

Regardless of what you say, I think in most cases it comes down to can't and not won't.

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No, in most cases it's won't. Actually, in almost all cases it's going to be, "won't."

Note: The following speaks of MMOs overall and not FFXIV specifically:
Raids require the following:
Time
Effort
Skill
Other Players

And of course: Coordinating the above

Out of those five, "Time" is the only factor that will determine the difference between, "I can't raid," and "I can't raid, yet." Once that's figured out, the issue is deciding if you will or won't raid. If you will, you will put in the effort into getting geared, work on your skills and, if needed, find players to raid with. If you're not willing, then it's not that you can't raid, but won't, because you will not but forth the effort to get prepared.

Unlike how some high-level raiders seem to believe, most players do have the time, can put in the effort, and either already have the skill or can be taught and in any decently populated game, there's enough of em at various time-frames to allow for the coordination to take place.

Honestly though, many players who don't raid probably don't because they don't feel like putting up with the stress of it. Either from the tougher requirements or just dealing with the increased ratio of idiots to sane players.


04/20

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Originally Posted by Nero

Fits my Name i guess? XD I like your Sig lol

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Indeed it does :p
And yeah, when I saw the title of that thread, and then clicked it to find that in your post. I choked on my coffee xD
Definitely an A+ response.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Yeah i am kind of the same. I am going for Coil, but for me personally it is not a "Main Aspect" of the Game. I am more an "old school" grind person and love time sinks. I think the Game does offer a good amount of variety, so everyone should have a certain "route" he can go for. Grinding for me is not really something "casual", since grinds are usually done with a huge amount of time put into it and for me a casual player is someone who does not play often. But yeah "casual" and "hardcore" is thrown way too often into discussion without any relation.

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Exactly! There is no single aspect of the game that I am personally trying to zero in on. Yes, I do Coil, and I enjoy it. However, I also enjoy many other things in game and the time sinks. I've personally found no shortage of stuff to do; and I still have a lot more to do.
And like you're saying, I just wish the misuse of terms such as "casual" and "hardcore" would stop. We're all gamers here, after all. Regardless of the stigma that has been placed on casual gamers, being a casual does not make someone less of a gamer and it's not synonymous with being a bad player.

There is a chasm of difference between being a casual player and being a bad player.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

while i agree with you, I think there is a lot of misconception about shovelware. There is TONS of it on every system released. Heck, the NES was riddled with them. Atari more so. It's just more apparent now due to better coverage and the internet.

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I agree. Not to mention back in those days, I was just a kid and I had to choose really wisely about what I wanted, so I couldn't afford to pick up anything outside of what really intrigued me in Nintendo Power. Unlike now, where I can just grab a game on a whim; and, like you said, the biggest thing we have now that we didn't have then, internet coverage.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

You can thank the 7th console gen and the Wii, with it's library of party games and shovelware, for distorting what the term "casual gamer" means within the gamer community.

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while i agree with you, I think there is a lot of misconception about shovelware. There is TONS of it on every system released. Heck, the NES was riddled with them. Atari more so. It's just more apparent now due to better coverage and the internet.

I will have to agree with Enepttastic on this. I think the definition of casual is slightly skewed on this one. Some people are looking at it like they have no alternative BUT to farm for an animus, etc. I managed just fine with a Zenith, I am as casual as they come in the summer time I work 50+ hours a week and have maybe a few hours here and there in total on the weekends to play. If I get a chance to play I previously used it to farm for Atma (which I obtained over two weeks ago), now I have just completed my first book for the Animus, and I am still pretty darn casual. It doesn't bother me, I've not only accepted that I won't be one of these people who need to have the newest toys right out the gate, but I will be that one that still has them down the road on my own accord, it's not like they're removing these things from the game.

I think you need to pick and choose your battles more wisely. I really notice a lot of the forum go'ers have this odd sense of urgency to complete all things in FFXIV as fast as possible like the game is getting removed in a week.

Eh, I got my Atma today and I didn't sweat much, nor I do to cap myth almost every week. I just do roulettes, beast tribes, and some Coil (T1-4). I've yet to see the huge grindfest people are talking about. I bought my first book today, I'll start working on it tomorrow, and I'll probably do a book a week, maybe more if I put some extra work into it. I don't really see how Novus is different... I have started leveling DPS magic classes and converting/keeping the materia I want for the infusion, and as far as Alexandrite go, there'll be more ways to obtain them in 2.3.

I feel this is as casual as it gets. You're not supposed to do it in a week. Just take your time, it's not a race.

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Originally Posted by zulu_kulu

i wont say goodbye causals, but i will say : goodbye to all any alts classes relics you arent planing to specialize in!

the atma/animus/novus grind just make getting relic on alt jobs a useless. the amount of time you need to put into novus for ONE job is stupidly high. so freaking high that trying to level the other relics is nonsensical.

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Great point, I'd have liked to get the weapon for my bard or sch, but.... yeah no way lol

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Eh, I got my Atma today and I didn't sweat much, nor I do to cap myth almost every week. I just do roulettes, beast tribes, and some Coil (T1-4). I've yet to see the huge grindfest people are talking about. I bought my first book today, I'll start working on it tomorrow, and I'll probably do a book a week, maybe more if I put some extra work into it. I don't really see how Novus is different... I have started leveling DPS magic classes and converting/keeping the materia I want for the infusion, and as far as Alexandrite go, there'll be more ways to obtain them in 2.3.

I feel this is as casual as it gets. You're not supposed to do it in a week. Just take your time, it's not a race.

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Exactly. I don't know why some people don't get this.

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Originally Posted by zulu_kulu

i wont say goodbye causals, but i will say : goodbye to all any alts classes relics you arent planing to specialize in!

the atma/animus/novus grind just make getting relic on alt jobs a useless. the amount of time you need to put into novus for ONE job is stupidly high. so freaking high that trying to level the other relics is nonsensical.

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This. I have monk animus. Am working on BLM animus. I have mnk i110 tome weap as well(got it after). Mnk is my primary class for coil. We beat t9 so i'll be getting i115 as well. so mnk animus is put on hold indefinitely.

BLM. BLM was my first main(didnt start mnk till late january). BLM is now my alt. I'll be getting that i115 weap as well. So my animus/novus for blm will be something i take at a snail's pace. I'm talking like straight up not caring/only doing when I'm bored/have nothing else to do in-game. It'll be my side chick and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

Exactly. I don't know why some people don't get this.

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Let me enlighten you then:

Simplest reason is that some people just honestly enjoy running through content as fast as they're able to. Some do it for the thrill of being one of the pioneers, some do it for the bragging rights, another set do it because they want to complete it as it was "meant to be" before any potential "nerfs", and then others do it so they can get the information needed to help others understand/surpass the content.

Now, for Zodiac-Specific reasons? Primarily it's because there's not really much in the realm of options for players weapon-wise at the moment and honestly, the name of the game for MMOs is, "Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade!" When you hit 50 here, there's nothing left to upgrade but your gear and your weapon is pretty much the single-most important piece.

Now, take into account that it's not too daunting a task to get one's Zenith weapon players are stuck at a few options if they want to improve their weapon:

1. Leviathan Ex(Wave/Tidal Wave)
2. Binding Coil(t5)
3. Second Coil(t9)
4. Soldiery Tokens(Weathered)
5. Zodiac

Now....

1. Leviathan Ex is currently gated via Titan Ex which, unless you have a competent raid group you run with or buy a carry, you're practically dealing with as much RNG to get past it as you will be hoping for a weapon/mirror drop in Levi Ex.
2. Not everyone cares to raid, so that takes away (High) Allegan Weapons for another chunk of the player-base. Those that do raid have only one shot a week for the High Allegan however.
3. Can't grab a Weathered Weapon without a T2 drop so those who steer clear of coil are out again. Even if you do run coil, you're probably better off spending your soldiery tokens on armor/accessories for your class or alt classes instead.

Thus, we have the Zodiac Weapons, which, can be continuously upgraded, and if you keep em upgraded, should at least be a competent weapon to get your foot in the door for any of the end-game content. Additionally, the process isn't difficult, albeit horrifically tedious for Atma/Animus, and can be done in your off-time. This makes the Zodiac weapons an appealing idea to work on for casuals to raiders, even if you have a better weapon currently.

Thus, a good chunk of the player-base will be working on their Zodiacs at some point in time. Notable exceptions to this are the:

• "Don't raid, don't care, Zenith's good enough for me!" Crowd
• "F this upgrade BS" Crowd

Which brings us back to why rush it? Well, as mentioned before, "Upgrades, upgrades, upgrades!" being one reason. Most people will naturally want to get an upgrade as soon as possible. However, there's one more reason I hadn't touched upon yet.

That would be the "Just get it over with" types. These started on the upgrade and, for whatever reason, just want it done. May be because they have a better weapon already and merely want their Zodiac to be up to date for when the next upgrade comes around and would prefer to just hurry up and get it done with. Others may just have an OCD-esque mentality and once they start working on it, they don't want to do anything else until it's done.

Personally, I'm a mix of those two along with upgrade syndrome. However, I don't mind the Zodiac weapons being something that takes time and effort. That doesn't bother me at all, in fact from what I've heard about the Novus path thus far, I think it's almost perfect. Those who want to rush it have their options, those who don't but want to actually make progress have an option as well. I do think there's a few flaws with it, but they're minor compared to anything from the Atma/Animus design. I can easily argue at length as to how both of those upgrade paths are examples of bad design.

That said, I do think that anyone complaining about the myth maps, or "It's going to take forever" on Novus needs to shut the hell up. Atma/Animus bitching is completely warranted, not due to time but the tedious nature of it and Yoshi really should make some sort of response regarding the obscene use of Myth Tomes in the questline.

I'm not sure what's bad about casuals. I consider myself a casual, even though I log in about a good 60-70 hours a week in the summer, and in the academic year, about 28. I'm not going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

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I personally don't mind the time sink, or the possible gil sink for that matter. Just going to give that part some time to let the prices of materia drop...hopefully. The possibility of failure upon melding is also questionable at best, so I may wait a little longer to see how that plays out. Now, the maps on the other hand...I welcome a challenge every so often, but I must admit my first impressions of being blown to smithereens fighting the Mythril Golem were very off-putting. If they decide to tune the mobs required down a little bit I won't complain. It wouldn't be so bad to just do at least 75 maps, 1 per day or 2 depending on your Myth supply, but it's left too much to chance and takes away some sense of progress with it's current difficulty. Some, not all. I'm aware that there are more ways coming in 2.3 to obtain the Alexandrites on top of what we have already with fates and maps, and that's fine. But what we have now is somewhat flawed, fates and all, considering our previous grind. Zenith>Atma>Animus is where SE hit a happy medium in my opinion.

Serious question. So like someone said, I cant see myself doing this on every alt..if I wanna play a diff class alot though without grinding my relic what weapon do I go with then? Like as of current patch do I grind Levi for the weapon drop and that is what is current?

Square is known for this when it comes to best weapon grinds and upgrades. FFXIII, FFXII, FFX, etc, etc, etc. Even leveling is sometimes a big grind.

Yet people go on about "handouts" so it's no surprise to me that this happens. If I can't upgrade because I don't have the materia for it I ain't gonna spend millions of gold I don't have for it. Probably put crappy stats on my novus if I have to just to get er done.

Even though the steps they add each time seem more and more horrible, I still consider this path the casual path, and I am casual myself.

The latest and bestest weapon always involves some fight or coil with crazy mechanics and people yelling at you and stress and annoyance.

This weapon I just pew a few F.A.T.E and gather myth. If I feel like it. You don't have to grind it, you know. In fact, grinding is not casual. :)

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

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Honestly, I don't mind the time sink either. It's when the time sink is utterly tedious(Atma), goes against what the lead developer said(Look at my sig), come to find out is even more BS due to more information from the lead developer(Animus books aren't actually the original, potentially "hard to find in Eorzea" copies that we were told, in game, they'd be, thus making their cost even more idiotic), that I begin to have issues.

For the relic upgrades, as I said before, aside from the myth buy-in to start Novus, I don't have a single problem with how it appears to be. The Atma/Animus situation on the other hand.....