I obviously know more about your class than you do, play how I tell you.

Oh, my God... I just read all the thread.

Ok, uh... I do agree that you should take advice. Even if you ask for it or not. It's really self-centered to not accept a critic, despite if it was rude or not. If people call you out for something or they give you some advice, you should double check what you're doing. Yes, people play this for fun, but YOUR fun is hurting other's people fun. Yes, it does. That's why I say it's very self-centered. And yes, everybody is paying for this, but guess what, nobody is aiming you with a sniper rifle all day if you don't pay for it. It's your choice if you do. You can have MORE fun if you learn your class, take advice and do the things you're supposed to do. That's why the game is not only three big red button that says "ATTACK" // "HEAL" // "TANK". There're skills and descriptions. Combos and rotations. Cooldowns and buffs. Debuffs and reaction-skills.

Even if you're not a raider, you should take a chance and learn your class. If people say something, even if they're playing with a different role, their opinion is not less significant because people can play anything here. Saying this, they might or they might not be experienced with that class. It's way better if they point these flaws out, or do you prefer them to leave without saying a word? I said this before, saying "don't tell me what to do" is childish. That's the kind of answer I can expect from a little kid/teenager discussing with his/her mom, not an adult.

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Originally Posted by AlyssaFhey

"DRG LB"

^I get this all the time. Super annoying. I know when to lb. It's even worse when they say it and IT'S DEFINITELY NOT the right time to lb. I.e. Brayflox, to skip big bomb phase, people tell me to lb immediately(wrong time), you're suppose to start lb when his 'sprint' comes up.

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It's because it's pretty obnoxious when folks want to LB when the guy has 3% health left.
I see it happen all the time, we usually burn him down right as the person animation starts.

Also, sucks to see Dragoon be the bottom the barrel these days, lots of hate towards em I see.
s:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luxx

It's because it's pretty obnoxious when folks want to LB when the guy has 3% health left.
I see it happen all the time, we usually burn him down right as the person animation starts.

Also, sucks to see Dragoon be the bottom the barrel these days, lots of hate towards em I see.
s:

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Ugh, I missed that post. I do agree with you as well, Luxx. Well, to be fair, DRG is a job that can screw it up easily, since their jumps are an obstacle when it comes to dodge. Also, in response to Alyssa, if you're playing with random people, don't expect them to know how you play. Be a bit realist here. You can always say BEFORE the battle starts "hey, guys, I'll LB when the boss is at X HP or before/after he uses Y mechanic".

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Oh, my God... I just read all the thread.

Ok, uh... I do agree that you should take advice. Even if you ask for it or not. It's really self-centered to not accept a critic, despite if it was rude or not.
Even if you're not a raider, you should take a chance and learn your class.

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This tells me you haven't read the entire thread otherwise you wouldn't have added that.

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Originally Posted by Killance

This tells me you haven't read the entire thread otherwise you wouldn't have added that.

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Yeah, sorry for giving my opinion as you did with your thread. Also, I mentioned I agreed with that statement.

I don't really tell anyone anything unless they are clearly struggling as a bard. I usually ask first, though. I never just force myself onto people. I hate when non-bards tell me how to bard when I'm not even having a hard time. Especially when they've not played the role (Again, I ask them). Some people think there's only one right rotation and everything else is wrong. I'm a very adaptive player. I've never looked up anything because that's not how I learn. I don't watch videos or follow a strict set of rules. You pay for the game. Play it as you like. If someone has a problem with it, they can shove it up their ass.

I always observe people, and watch how they play. I try to give advice, unsolicited or no, but I usually preface it with, "Hey X, I notice some things that you could improve - would you mind if I talked with you about them?" And it usually nets a positive response. It's less about shoving advice down people's throats and more about trying to teach them how to play their class, since a lot of people originally fate grinded their class, or only leveled it for speed runs.

Black mage is the biggest perpetrator of this. I see too many BLM's who c ast Fire I, then Flare, then Convert, Then Flare, then don't even transpose to get mana back. This is because the BLM logic of speed runs has become 'Blow all MP as fast as possible" when a basic AoE rotation would help more.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Yeah, sorry for giving my opinion as you did with your thread. Also, I mentioned I agreed with that statement.

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Just save it. I think this is a troll. He's allowed to be short with people and get annoyed at advice but everyone else has to be nice and think of his feelings.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I try to give advice, unsolicited or no, but I usually preface it with, "Hey X, I notice some things that you could improve - would you mind if I talked with you about them?".

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As far as I am happy to see you are doing it right.. the other end of the spectrum these days kills the entire purpose of it.

Why you'd ask? You really have the time to type all of this? In these days where Speed Runs kills everything?

Unless you macro a universal sentence, then you type their name and click on that macro.

It's sooo saddening to see that some wants to help.. but no one has the time to listen, or worse - they just don't care.

The tone of the advise seemed to be condescending...but heck, I wasn't there so I can't know if he was crazy or if you really were not doing your job properly.

As for "always take the advice given to you"....wrong, you don't do that.
You "judge the advice given" if you somewhat know your class you'll realize if they were right ASAP and take it to better yourself.

As a fellow DGN I can't tell you how many times "experienced DGNs" have told me dots are useless (and you know they aren't), or to just stay at the flanks....I recall a MAR once who even told me the Impulse Drive - Disembowel - Chaos Trust combo was useless.

So "judge the advice given"...and if it's crap, you'll know inmediately, dismiss and continue DPSing

I always prioritize dps than tanks in pre 50 dungeons cuz any class with decent synced hp/gear can tank all mobs/ bosses.
If tanks start telling me how to play my job while not playing his i'll gladly disregard anything he says as i ran once with a tank who didn't use any defence/ hp buff skills till the last boss in tam.
But what got me was when he said can you not dps and use fluid aura.
I was like speechless, a tank telling me how to play yet he's not even playing his class right.
I trolled him a few times by using medica once and easily ripping hate lol.
On the last boss i let him die and made him rage on about how the group was going to wipe.
As if! He got pissed at the end when we beat it and said
" learn to play your job and in a party "
I was like lol naw just chill

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Originally Posted by Shigaru

Just save it. I think this is a troll. He's allowed to be short with people and get annoyed at advice but everyone else has to be nice and think of his feelings.

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http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads...action-gif.gif

I find that when I do say something it just gets ignored most of the time. I tend to watch my party members closely during more relaxed fights to see what they're doing, ran into a DRG on Dzemael who was using the Thrust combo with barely any HT or otherwise the entire time. Even when I did speak up and say how they could use their class better, they never replied once. The thing that really irked me was that I had been using the LBs the whole way through, on the final boss I said leave them to me so it could be used efficiently. Gargoyle links himself to a crystal and goes invincible, and the DRG decided to use the LB right before that so a level 2 LB was completely wasted, I decided not to use it before him because I knew it was going to happen. They still sad nothing even after making such a grievous error.

You either give advice that could be coming from someone that knows what they're talking about and could come with some slight amount of attitude but still be legitimate advice, and they ignore it and say nothing, or give it to someone that tells you how they don't want to be told how to play even if it's inconveniencing others. I can't remember the last time I was leveling a class and someone told me how to better clip my abilities so I could more effectively perform a rotation, even when I was getting Monk to 50, only person who ever gave me any advice was this guy that's in my housing neighborhood. No one else all the way from level 1 to 50. Disregarding stuff I've read on here of course, because I haven't made any Monk related threads or even looked in most of the ones in the DPS section. Still seem to be doing well enough for where it's at, but some actual advice from someone would have been helpful for more than one person.

Saw a Monk with the Tidal Wave Patas in Titan HM a week or so ago, more than 5 pieces of High Allagan gear, figured they were experienced. They knew the fight and always obeyed getting people out of jails and dodging the mechanics, but when I asked them for advice they never said a word. Sucks in the end really but oh well.

I've played this game since 1.0 launch. Mostly as BLM. Still, if someone gives me advice I'll listen to it. Sometimes they do know better, and it improves my game. I'm glad they speak up.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads...action-gif.gif

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My sentiments exactly about Shigaru and possibly you, not sure yet.

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Originally Posted by Killance

My sentiments exactly about Shigaru and possibly you, not sure yet.

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You post a thread on a game forum and expect everything to be roses?

Haven't you figured out that you could post that you think the senset is nice over "insert location" and four other people would say it sucked and ten others would list better ones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnova

You post a thread on a game forum and expect everything to be roses?

Haven't you figured out that you could post that you think the senset is nice over "insert location" and four other people would say it sucked and ten others would list better ones.

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I reply insults with insults, I reply arguments with arguments, I reply statements with statements, I reply jokes with jokes.

You can see where that was going, at least i hope you can.

Another player giving dragoons a bad rep, so hopefully next time you're playing like crap your party will just kick you immediately since you're not gonna take advice anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

Another player giving dragoons a bad rep, so hopefully next time you're playing like crap your party will just kick you immediately since you're not gonna take advice anyway.

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pls don't promote vote kick abuse.

It all depends on context. I'll admit to even calling some players retarded if they get to cap or close to it and not read their own abilities.

I've had warrior tank facepull 5 mobs in AV, flash once, and let an AOEing dps and healer die. Called him retarded for getting to 47 and not knowing to overpower (considering he only flashed once, he probably didn't know how threat worked either... as a lvl47+ warrior in AV. If anything, it's nothing short of a damn miracle he found his defiance button).

I've had a WHM in T2 spam medica ii in enrage mode. I need not say more (well I did say one thing; do you not read your own damn abilities?!).

I've had a WHM, and PLD with reaction times slower than someone playing a CTB final fantasy game in brayflox normal, allowing the DRG to die within the first minute of the 2nd boss fight. We wiped somehow. 2nd attempt, as i was forced to BRD kite the add since the PLD most likely had difficulty blinking and breathing at the same time irl, let alone attempt to tank 2 things at once, I had paralasys on me for the full 30 seconds. WHMs have esuna by around 18 iirc. We all were sitting around 50% HP because of blaze spikes (and me periodically getting para-stunned, and hit by the add), the WHM shuffled around doing nothing for at least 5 seconds. I was wondering when she was going to medica the entire time. Her next cast was a cure on the tank.

As a healer, I do nothing but watch players. I've leveled neither of those jobs to 50, yet I know the more obvious things that they should and shouldn't be doing.

Some people deserve to be called out.

Logic is hard, man.

Had an ignoramus of a tank trying to dictate how to play to others in Labyrinth just yesterday (in between liberal volleys of insults, accusing everyone else of being WoW noobs, harassing another tank for having a macro to announce taunt, and demanding to be thanked because he was "clearly carrying the raid" - while losing threat on the bone dragon, being relegated to Platinal duty, and then stacking all of them in a pile next to the central platform). "Advice" from someone like that is clearly to be ignored.

Mercifully, most people are better about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deuxclydion

accusing everyone else of being WoW noobs

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IMO, most people that come from WoW should adjust to this combat better considering GCDs in WoW were 1.5 seconds at the absolute longest. My number one complaint in beta was how it felt like I could make a sandwich in the time I was ready to vorpal thrust after true thrust. After years of dealing with faster paced combat, it's hard to be a WoW noob in FFXIV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

I believe I already answered a similar post.

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No, you've made it clear that you only take advice if asked for, which is selfish. Unasked for advice is criticism, no matter the person's tone or wording. By choosing to ignore ANY unasked for advice, you are harming your group, period.

Note that this is different than using said advice. If someone tells me i'm doing something wrong, even if the information is incorrect, I will think about it for a moment, not ignore it out of hand. Regardless of their tone or wording.

It's basically like this. You: If I don't know something, i'll ask. But what if you don't know that you don't know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

Why you'd ask? You really have the time to type all of this? In these days where Speed Runs kills everything?

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In Duty Roulette, I can type between GCD's and get a proper set of explanations out. You get almost 3 seconds between GCD's and the game doesn't delete your text.

However, in speed runs, I'll often save this for when we're finished with the run, and I can review with them in tell (Because already during the run it's hard to mention and people feel like they're being called out 'for being bad', when in reality I just want to make them -better-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

then it also depends on the approach "Hey Kiara if you use that instead of that you'd keep up greased lightning easier" or "Your rotation is wrong!"
Unfortunately most ppl who do comment go with the 2nd one

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This is it exactly. There's a big difference between giving valid advice and just being a douchebag. Unfortunately, 90% of the players out there start in douchebag territory and go down from there.

I expected more people on either side of the argument, but holy hell its pretty even with this thread. I'm surprised.

If you've stopped with the thought that you know everything, you have ensured that the way you play is the way you will always play and you will never get better.

The best players never stop learning, and never stop looking to other players. This applies to literally everything game or not. Grow thicker skin. If your reaction to criticism is to whine on forums I have doubts that your attitude is conductive to learning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

If you've stopped with the thought that you know everything, you have ensured that the way you play is the way you will always play and you will never get better.

The best players never stop learning, and never stop looking to other players. This applies to literally everything game or not. Grow thicker skin. If your reaction to criticism is to whine on forums I have doubts that your attitude is conductive to learning.

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Please quote me on "I know everything about my class". I'll wait, though I think i'll be waiting forever SINCE I NEVER SAID THAT!

Sometimes people will know more about your class than you, as long as they give their advice in a polite and non-condescending manner I see no problem with that to be honest. As for "telling you how to play" if the way you are playing is flat out wrong, then they are entitled to say so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

Please quote me on "I know everything about my class". I'll wait, though I think i'll be waiting forever SINCE I NEVER SAID THAT!

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Captain caps lock just confirmed my suspicion about his attitude irt criticism. Grow thicker skin, life is learning.

If anyone offers you advice, the last thing you should do is ignore it. There are way too many people in this game that become very rude when corrected on their rotation, and I really don't know why. I guess maybe these players think that others are policing them or constantly watching them, but these are things you just notice by default out of having correctly played their class yourself. In a 4 person dungeon, it is also incredibly easy to tell when someone isn't pulling their weight. It's nice if someone that gives you advice does it in a polite way, but even if they're rude (I'm not condoning being rude), the corrections they give you do not lose their credibility, and you should incorporate them in your play style. The learning process never ends, and like SarcasmMisser said, the moment you think you know everything is when you stop getting better (and you can ALWAYS get better).

The "don't tell me how to play" and "this isn't hardcore endgame" responses are very problematic because preparation for the hardest fights in the game start at level 1. Good players don't have an on and off switch, they play their best all the time because once you get used to it, it becomes second nature, and if everyone always pushed their class to the best of their abilities, the game would be much more enjoyable. I think that a reason why so many players don't try so hard is because of this game's difficulty curve. Getting to level 50 is a joke, FATEs teach you nothing about your class, and many endgame fights are too easy, so maybe some players shrug off constructive criticism because as long as you win, it doesn't matter to them, but once they hit Titan EX and T5, things get real.

I feel like I may have gone a little off-topic there, but if someone offers you advice, please take it. Playing your best and finding a purpose for all your skills may seem like a drag at first, but it becomes effortless very fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Captain caps lock just confirmed my suspicion about his attitude irt criticism. Grow thicker skin, life is learning.

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Well now, I know what kind of person you are. On ignore now, enjoy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

Please quote me on "I know everything about my class". I'll wait, though I think i'll be waiting forever SINCE I NEVER SAID THAT!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

I'm positive that it doesn't "suck". And there is no reason to look at it.

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I think this is what Sarcasm is referring to. If you think your rotation is fine, I'm not going to say you're wrong. If you feel you are pulling your weight, that's subjective for the most part. You've already said you don't care about being the best, and that's your right. I think the gist some people are trying to get at is, if the advice is sound and not delivered in a condescending way, what harm is it in at least entertaining the thought? If you have done the research you say you have (and I can't say whether you have or not), perhaps it is YOU who could have been providing advice to THEM since they approached the subject in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Captain caps lock just confirmed my suspicion about his attitude irt criticism. Grow thicker skin, life is learning.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I think this is what Sarcasm is referring to.

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I'm sorry, understanding Sarcasm on the internet is hard if not impossible since you can't detect it through written sentences UNLESS it's put in special font.

Edit: On a note to everyone else, opening thread was on the tone the person was using. For the love of god, stop saying I deny info on my class. I deny it when you throw it in my face using obnoxious phrases and don't let it go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

I'm sorry, understanding Sarcasm on the internet is hard if not impossible since you can't detect it through written sentences UNLESS it's put in special font.

Edit: On a note to everyone else, opening thread was on the tone the person was using. For the love of god, stop saying I deny info on my class. I deny it when you throw it in my face using obnoxious phrases.

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No, I mean his name is Sarcasm, not that he was being sarcastic.

So he ignores criticism? Sounds really insecure, I have doubts that you are decent at your job at all when that is your reaction and you should treat every piece of advice as a precious chance.

Reminds me of my old raid leader, garbage player who flew into tantrums at every chance he had to learn from better players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

I'm sorry, understanding Sarcasm on the internet is hard if not impossible since you can't detect it through written sentences UNLESS it's put in special font.

Edit: On a note to everyone else, opening thread was on the tone the person was using. For the love of god, stop saying I deny info on my class. I deny it when you throw it in my face using obnoxious phrases and don't let it go.

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But what if they DO offer you useful info? Maybe they're rude about it, and that behavior should never be encouraged, but will you throw out what they gave you advice on even if it could help you play your job more effectively?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

But what if they DO offer you useful info? Maybe they're rude about it, and that behavior should never be encouraged, but will you throw out what they gave you advice on even if it could help you play your job more effectively?

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Spamming me, insulting me, not letting it go. You will be on my blocklist regardless of what you have to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Killance

Spamming me, insulting me, not letting it go. You will be on my blocklist regardless of what you have to say.

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If someone keeps spamming or not letting go of the information they're trying to tell you, then maybe you should seriously reconsider what you're currently (or what you're not) doing. If someone is being rude to you, by all means, blacklist them, but outright refusing to take advantage of a chance to play more effectively is what will keep you from bettering yourself and being a better asset to your party members.

"Correct a fool and he will hate you. Correct a wise man and he will appreciate you."
-from a random facebook post