Nerfs are making the game less fun for "many" hardcore AND casual players

i'm not opposed to nerfs at all, but i do have an issue with the speed the content is nerfed. say this last patch instead of giving bonuses every 2 weeks they had just given a 10% buff to the party if they wiped for so many minutes. let those groups that were right on the verge get their clear when the content is still difficult to them. the next patch make it 20% and it lets the players one level below them clear. each patch as new content is released sure lower the previous content in tiers. basically slow down the speed in which nerfs are put in and it will let everyone of different skill levels beat the content when it challenges them.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

So basically you're telling me that I'm an elitist because I think that I-level 110 gear does not belong in level 50 hard mode / expert dungeons, chimera, hydra, crystal tower, HM primals battles? ....

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The elitist want content difficulty to never change so only they can access the new content and riff-raff unclean masses can be stuck. That is being elitist. Content being nerfed so more people can accesss them is not being elitist. Allowing players to farm and gear up iLevel 110 is also an indirect way to nerf the content. If you are against those ideas, then you are siding with the elitists.

If you don't want to use your iLevel 110 gear in HM primals, more power to you. I'm sure you got iLevel 90 or 75 gear around. So go do that, but do NOT impose your play style on the rest of the playerbase. They should have the freedom to do what they want. Only elitist will try to dictate and constrain how and what they play. SE wants to be more inclusive, a elitist wants to be exclusive.

When the 5% become the majority of the player base then maybe we can talk about making everything for that small % percent that farm turn 6 thru 9 and then log out for the week. But until they become the majority its likely to stay the same. You would be amazed at how many people play this game for various reason, either because a spouse wanted them too or friends that like FF etc.. that have no clue what goes on in this forum or what alot of the issues that we complain about are. Thats you majority and if they hit a wall to many times they will move on and the small HardCore minority is not whats gonna keep this train rolling.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

I agree that there are many bosses that are too difficulty that players won't ever complete them. Those I can see the justification for a nerf down the line. But simply dying to a boss and getting the echo should not indicate that the nerf belongs. Many players want to figure out how to beat the boss without assistance.

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SE is thinking long term here. Imagine a year from now when there's a ton of content to do and new people (yes, a game doesn't just stop getting new people after a year) are held back from completing their first relic weapon because they can't find enough people or skilled enough people to take down Titan HM. You think those people are going to stick around?

I'm not saying SE needs to give handouts to everyone, but a little bit of assistance on content that isn't meaningful to the scope of the game at that current time isn't a bad thing. SE want players to actually experience their game, not be hung up on one boss for three months. If that's the ONLY content to do at that point in time, then sure, let them work for it, but when we're several months removed from that content and there's bigger and better things to do, there's nothing wrong with relaxing the requirements a bit.

I actually agree with the OP and I guess I am a casual player.
2 days ago I started coil, which should be the most difficult content and I found out that people are farming it non-stop, because it's so easy.
I'm really disappointed, because it's just another boring speedrun instance and there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment doing it.

I don't even see a reason why casuals like me should have best or near best gear ingame if they can't put it to use.
In addition Ilvl100 is available to everyone without even stepping foot inside coil.

I always loved being part of an organized raid and learning the bosses moves while hanging out in Teamspeak and ultimately that made gaming fun.
But people will always seek the path of least resistance and thus have no reason to socialize, group and have that raid fun, which is rather a pity.

But well Square wants to milk those casuals so I guess it will continue.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

I apologize if I misunderstand what you're saying - but are you saying that if you die enough to see the echo that the content should be nerfed because it's too difficult? I completely disagree. A boss should kill your party on your first try. If it doesn't - then the boss is too easy. Part of the fun of a game is to learn from your mistakes and get better. I agree that there are many bosses that are too difficulty that players won't ever complete them. Those I can see the justification for a nerf down the line. But simply dying to a boss and getting the echo should not indicate that the nerf belongs. Many players want to figure out how to beat the boss without assistance.

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Nope, I didn't say that. I said that if you see the echo buff, is because you're wiping. If you're wiping, it's because the content is somewhat difficult. People can always turn the echo buff off. If they don't, there's no one they can blame but themselves. I don't know what's the matter with that... I mean, it's the fact that OTHER people are beating the content with echo? because you have the power on that choice. With this last idea, I'm not pointing at you, just talking in a general sense.


Even if I don't like what I'm about to say, it's an alternative thought about echo: Some people are in a learning process. How many times you were bothered with doing the first phases over and over until you reach that "IMPOSSIBLE" phase? The echo speeds up those phases. They reach the phase they need to practice faster and faster. There's a learning, there's an effort. Even with the echo buffs, as I mentioned before, some fights have mechanics that they must learn before they can go even further. As the game moves on, there're content that will be utterly useless. We see that in WoW. We see that a lot in WoW, actually, and some others MMOs. (Except for Ragnarok Online, all the bosses were important and hard as f***). They have three choices: They can nerf the content (Amdapor Keep, Twisters, Titan HM), they can maintain its difficulty or they can implement both.

IMO, as the content becomes obsolete, those fights that were important and needed some dedication, will become a cake walk. This will help the people to move further into the new content. This is business, this has nothing to do with a gamer making his ideal game. You can't force people to eat a brick wall in a videogame because you'll lose customers. That's how I think it works nowdays.

Final thought: I don't like echo, but if I see my group can't make it, I'll use it. Because it'll help me and it will help them. If my group is capable of doing one-shooting a fight, we might not see this echo buff. This only applies to the content outside Coil.

Disclaimer: Sorry for my english. It's not my native language.
Edit: Spelling.

@Salaphiel: Hey guess what, you can get the experience you want in 2nd coil. And since T1-5 are easier it means that you can get there sooner.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

@Salaphiel: Hey guess what, you can get the experience you want in 2nd coil. And since T1-5 are easier it means that you can get there sooner.

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So basically you're saying its a good thing that SE nerfs everything except the final 4 mini dungeons? Why is it a good idea to push everyone to a mere 4 mini dungeons when those 4 mini dungeons will still be the most difficult content and offer the best gear for another 5 months. How can nobody see that it's too early to need content to bring people to this point? There isn't enough content to fall behind at this point. Wake me up when there is an expansion pack.

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Originally Posted by Salaphiel

I actually agree with the OP and I guess I am a casual player.
2 days ago I started coil, which should be the most difficult content and I found out that people are farming it non-stop, because it's so easy.
I'm really disappointed, because it's just another boring speedrun instance and there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment doing it.

But well Square wants to milk those casuals so I guess it will continue.

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Very very very few are "speedrunning" T5.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Why is content being nerfed in 3 months?

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Because legitimate progression is gated behind the hardcore players and the rest that is considered progression like soldiery farming, primal, etc are actually illusion of progression because it implies that those people have the skill to do coil to begin with which they truly don't in the long run and a .5% boost is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

There's not a real progressive route.

Coil giving the best gear does not help. The farmable gear does not alleviate the difficulty of raiding because it's no where near the coil level gear and stat capping is ridiculous which is why Blizzard is doing away with hit.

Coil is a hardcore route.
Where's the progressive route that allows coil to be doable? CT -> Coil?
Where's the casual route that allows coil to be doable? Echo -> Coil?

Without proper balance like this we are left with a mechanic like echo as our only alternative to reach actual progression.

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Originally Posted by Doo

I don't think nerfs are making the game less fun to play, rather the lack of variety and fun content to do.

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This as well

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Originally Posted by Emtron

the small HardCore minority is not whats gonna keep this train rolling.

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Totally agree tossing passengers aside is not a good selling point.

I like Echo because the mechanics are the same, but the run is easier on the nerves if you choose to use it. I don't like things to be too difficult or too easy, and Echo + Gear can give everyone the balance they want. The only thing they could do to improve is let us set how much Echo we want when we raise the cap - for example, letting us play Turn 1 with 5, 10 or 15% echo instead of using it or disabling it altogether like it is now.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Offer normal, hard, extreme modes, but same drops.

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nope. how can extreme mode drop the same gear as normal?

I think speed runs are boring. I kind of wish they would do ilvl caps on the post 50 stuff so we would have to deal with mechanics instead of just AoEing everything in every dungeon. So in a way I agree, since technically you could call it a nerf that people are running dungeons that only require i55 in i100 gear.

Content nerfed too much? Is that why every T5 and Primal Ex I join on the DF can be cleared so easily?

/sarcasm


Anyway, this isn't the only game where old content is nerfed. Old content will always be nerfed sooner or later to make it easier for new players or players who couldn't clear them before to clear them. This is because all game developers want players to be able to experience new content. It's the same in any game. How it is implemented is different though. Other games tend to remove and change mechanics to make the content easier. In this game, we get a % buff to stats, which can even be switched off if the player desires so.

Just get over it. If you want to blame for SE nerfing content within 3 months, blame them for releasing a higer tier within 3 months. They should have released a higher tier content after 6 months -1 year like most other games. Screw SE for making content fast.

And regarding older 50 dungeons being easier after gearing.

Well, no shit sherlock. That is what gear progression is about. You get more gear so content gets easier. People want to progress when they play a game, not take the same effort they took in their first kill forever.

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Originally Posted by Pantz

Old content will always be nerfed sooner or later to make it easier for new players or players who couldn't clear them before to clear them. This is because all game developers want players to be able to experience new content.

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There's a thing called balance and progression. Even WoW had it before popularity got the best of them.

I think maybe OP is actually too causal and rarely pug with random...^^;
Everything will be extremely easy if your PT members are hardcore.

Content lockouts has made the game less fun for me. Just lock loot. Nerfs just let others that aren't so great enjoy the game too. The new content is where most people will gather.

Content has got to be nerfed to stop an ever widening divide between the front runners and those lagging behind. You don't need to overgear and use echo if you don't want to. To even see the echo in most cases, you need to show that you need it by failing to win. Many of us have still not beaten the last turn of the original binding coil, while the elite players are farming the last turn of second coil, so the gap is still getting wider. I would argue that a lack of nerfs is what would take the fun away for many, as we would hit a roadblock long before we have seen all the content in the game and have nothing left to do because we can never get any further even though content keeps getting added that we aren't good enough to be eligible for.

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You use the word "still" before wipe as it is surprising. Then you say that all that matters to you is being able to clear the content. If majority of players are like you - then I give up. Not that there's anything wrong with it - but jeeze - what happened to working for reward? I'm optimistic that most players still want challenge in their game and care more about a game than seeing everything cleared.

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I don't understand what you want mate. You're complaining that content you don't actually play is too easy? Get back to us when you've cleared turns 6-9 and then we can talk about challenge.

Also, it's pretty clear that you haven't done many primal fights recently. Echo buff is only applied after you die, and it's starts at 5%. Most groups don't even see the echo in anything but Titan EX, where it doesn't help if you suck at dodging.

You point is only valid in regard to Coil turns 1-5, and this being nerfed is fine. It needs to be farmable for people to have an alternate i90 path apart from Myth, which a lot of people are spending on Animus. Basically this content has gone from being in the realm of statics and experienced groups to being in the realm of the more casual population. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

The whole concept of "challenge" is an interesting thing too. Pretty much all of the fights in this game are trivial once you've memorised the script.

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There isn't enough content to fall behind at this point.

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Yet you're complaining that you can't get to it before it gets nerfed? Something doesn't add up there.

I don't really see where's the damn problem. SE is just trying to cater to both sides of the camp, those casuals and those who wants some challenge.

That's why from 2.2 to 2.3 your options are limited. This will be the challenge period where your only gearing options are Soldier gears and hoping for Coil drop. 3 months for those who wants a challenge to clear the whole of Second Coil with limited gearing options.

2.3 to 2.4 will come with the so-called indirect nerf by people in this thread via further gearing options. You will have CT2 that will drop something that is better than i90, you will have Ramuh that will probably drop i100/i110 accessory depending on difficulty. You will have the Novus weapon upgrade which is possibly i110, for those who still can't even beat T7 and T8 for the Gerolt's Masterworks after so long. There's even considerations to raise the tome cap in 2.3, like how Myth's cap were raised.

All these alternate options for the casuals and lesser skilled players will be provided for, but definitely at a later stage so that those who wants a challenge, gets their challenge.

It's fair and square. I really don't get what the so called "casuals" are complaining about. Doesn't have time to raid, doesn't want to bother about statics, doesn't have the skills to rush for progression, but wants the best gear at the same pace as those who could, and those who wants a challenge? I think it's a little greedy. As much as the so called elitists "hate" seeing "casuals" having the same level of gear as them, the "casuals" just don't get to have their cake and eat it too. The current cycle of vertical and horizontal gear progression is just fine.

BTW I'm neither hardcore nor casual. I spend too much time in the game fiddling with vanity and socializing and doing other stuffs (like having Animus for main class and Atmas for alternate class out of vanity reasons) to be called a casual, but I also don't belong to the hardcore camp because my raid only does 2hrs raid per raid day and we don't happen to raid everyday. If not I'd be on T9 farm by now, but the fact is that I'm still working on T9 (only 6-8 on farm). And yes I think things right now is fine. 2.3 is just around the corner and the "casuals" will get their indirect soft nerfs via more gearing options.

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Originally Posted by Zaero

Want achallenge? Remove the buff.

Seriously, I still see people complain about getting the buff, but then reject my suggestion to turn it off in dungeons. Can't have it both ways.

They're nerfing it for those who HADN'T yet run the old content (of which there are a lot out there), but it doesn't mean ya can step up and go at it the old school way.

(yes, I'm being kinda venty here, but seriously tired of the "LOLEcho")

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One person turning it off will make no difference though. If you're a DPS then you'll still make tight DPS checks you may not have because the 3 other DPS are buffed. If you're a Tank even if you screw up rotating your CDs, as long as you're not one shotted, buffed Healers will have no problem keeping you up. And the reverse for Healers, less intense healing periods on buffed Tanks, plus your other Healer can cover for you.

Unless you're able to talk over half the party into switching it off then it will still effect your run.

To go with OP

https://31.media.tumblr.com/0facb1df...dmumo1_500.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I think it's a little greedy. As much as the so called elitists "hate" seeing "casuals" having the same level of gear as them, the "casuals" just don't get to have their cake and eat it too. The current cycle of vertical and horizontal gear progression is just fine.

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I agree on the gearing vs difficulty side, which is why RPGs are always backwards. The best players always get the easiest content due to being properly/over geared.

The game should be like FF8. The higher your gear score, the more the difficulty increases. But this is too much to ask for. Instead we should be satisfied with people being smart enough to lower their gearscore for a bigger challenge, but 99% of all people are too dumb and lazy to do that. They think being over geared for content should still have the content be a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I don't really see where's the damn problem.

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If you choose not to see it then of course you wont see it.

And as far as catering to both sides.

Coil > CT > Coil 2 > CT 2

The rest of the content isn't as long lasting and progressive. Not saying the other players aren't being acknowledge but they are not as high on the priority list as them.

Progressive players gated behind weekly lockouts.

PvP > 2.28 or 2.23 battlegrounds

Crafter love is there but low

Main Quest Scenario, Primals, Hildebrand, Beastman dailies, and Dungeons may consistent but there's a big time difference between major patches.

I can go on but I doubt the hardcore raiders would like it if SE didn't make another raid for them and instead SE placed focus between major patch difference on crafting, fates, story, primals, dungeons, etc.

It's how virtually any MMO I can think of works; old content gets nerfed. Why? Because it's old and out of date. There's new ways to get the current gear and in order to give everyone a fair enough chance at getting all that, the content you have to beat before being able to do the rest will be made easier so you won't be stuck on it for ages to come. (Don't go throwing that "Well, there's Sol gear!" BS at me, that's not the point here)

As a casual player myself, I don't care if they nerf things. I play the game to have fun. If I don't progress, that's fine. If I do progress that's fine. If they nerf things that's also fine, because as long as I can do these things with my FC and have a good time then I just don't give a damn about the rest, really.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

@Salaphiel: Hey guess what, you can get the experience you want in 2nd coil. And since T1-5 are easier it means that you can get there sooner.

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But... He hadn't even done first coil why would he want to jump to second coil? Its not about doing everything as soon as possible it's about still keeping the old content fun cause everyone hasn't had the chance to do them with yet.

My problem with how coils echo is that it's XX right form the beginning.

I like the wipe and increase because then even if it's your 1st time and you only beat it with 25% buff. Now you have a goal to set for yourself to do it with 20% or 15% or 5%...

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

One person turning it off will make no difference though.

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if it's only one person turning it off then that one should need to know that they are the minority and what they did is plain selfishness

if anyone want to enjoy the content without the buffs then try to talk it over, PF, FC, LS, friendlists or whatever
if anyone tried to organized those and failed to do so then they should already realized how the world really is

I really can't comment on this since I've only died in Garuda Extreme a bunch of times.

They are probably tracking players stats like mine and trying to remove bottlenecks where people don't progress at all for months.
SE don't make the game easier just because I suck.

However I do think there should be more optional ways to progress your gear.
We have a fun relic reborn quest but none of the other pieces of gear have anything even close to that.
And on top of that NONE of the high level gear have materia slots so there's literally no way to progress gear without just getting to coil.

I still can't win against Garuda Ex with full echo....sorry, but poor the most part you're an anomaly

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I agree on the gearing vs difficulty side, which is why RPGs are always backwards. The best players always get the easiest content due to being properly/over geared.

The game should be like FF8. The higher your gear score, the more the difficulty increases. But this is too much to ask for. Instead we should be satisfied with people being smart enough to lower their gearscore for a bigger challenge, but 99% of all people are too dumb and lazy to do that. They think being over geared for content should still have the content be a challenge.

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Never possible, although that sounds interesting enough. Like how FF13 takes into account your current gear, crystarium level vs clear time to determine your star rating and thus affecting mob drops. But never gonna happen, because you will have lots of QQs like the guy I've quoted below me. Things like this are too tough for them *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If you choose not to see it then of course you wont see it.

Not saying the other players aren't being acknowledge but they are not as high on the priority list as them.

Progressive players gated behind weekly lockouts.

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Nope because there isn't a big issue for me to see.

I love it how you aren't a progressive player nor in a progression team but speak as if you are part of it and represent them thou.

How many of the progression teams are complaining about coil loots or the highest ilvl drops are gated behind coil?

Did you see progression teams gunning for world first, server first, or even server/world top 10/20 creating threads like "WTF SE COIL TWO SO TOUGH PLS NERF OR GIVE US IL110 SOLDIER GEARS"? Nope. They can't be bothered with these QQs. They rely on their skills and understanding of the mechanics, do with what they have and what they can and keep focused with their task on hand. And they get the job done.

You are feeling that your gear progression is gated because you don't have a static and of course PF are mostly crappy. Too bad I guess. Tbh I don't really feel gated nor stucked with gear progression. I've been looking around and watching people on my server, generally those who have cleared T8 averagely have every of their player easily between i98-i105, with healers probably at the lower end of i96. Even for teams like mine who only does raid for about 10hrs per week, all of us are at i98-i100 except the 2 healers and a new tank we took in as replacement, but they aren't too far off at i96. The more hardcore teams are further geared than we are.

So... progression team's gearing route being gated behind coil? Who's to say that? These teams are doing fine as they are, tbh. As long as you clear, you will get something. If you don't get High Allagan loots, usually your team will feed you with oil/sands to balance out. That's how it's like being in a team, we don't want to see team mates being left behind.

Get into a progression team, experience what it truly is like before saying things.


EDIT: And oh yeah I do thing the coil lock out is fun in a way - always looking forward to the next reset for chance at new loots. If I'm not going to have a lock out or fast gearing options, then I might be getting fully decked and nothing left to farm/look forward too. Well one can say that the current SE strategy is just to build time sinks and prolong the current contents which weekly lock out is one of them. Sure, SE could have released more content, maybe every new coil every 3 months? Sure it's possible but again how are they gonna do it? Hire more teams and result in higher subscription fees or so? IDK man. Even if subscription fees are the same and they could release fast content, but what's the point if people can't clear it?

Like how Atma/Animus were a huge time sink, ended up people can't even complete them before the next scheduled update on 2.25 and SE have to postponed it as their reasoning is that they don't want to make the gap even bigger. So yeah. Gating is probably a good point for a game partly casual as it is for FF14ARR - so that the not so skilled people can keep trying at it until the next major release.

Don't say there ain't no gear. Soldier gear is i100 and it's still an upgrade, don't complain because there is upgrade. Give me unlimited Soldier and I'd buy all of them for all my other jobs. You have Animus/Novus as weapon upgrade, and CT2 is coming to help.

Quit blaming everything on anything.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

One person turning it off will make no difference though. If you're a DPS then you'll still make tight DPS checks you may not have because the 3 other DPS are buffed. If you're a Tank even if you screw up rotating your CDs, as long as you're not one shotted, buffed Healers will have no problem keeping you up. And the reverse for Healers, less intense healing periods on buffed Tanks, plus your other Healer can cover for you.

Unless you're able to talk over half the party into switching it off then it will still effect your run.

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That's what I mean though! Everyone complains that Echo makes things too easy, but no one will turn it off. MMO Logic!!

If you are skilled enough to actually clear hard content, you would have done so before the nerf rounds started and be on the next set of content.

Complaining in hindsight either means your skill is at least partially imaginary or you just like being a jerk to people who have run out of content at their skill level.

Either way it's significantly cheaper and smarter to use old content actually skilled people are done with as a way of expanding content for the next tier of skill down. From the context of some of these posts a few of you seem to want SE to risk shooting the game in the foot solely to justify your personal egos.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

I am a casual player. ...It's not fun playing the final two 2.0 storyline dungeons and seeing I-level 100 players slaughtering the end boss within seconds....i'm finding it hard to get to the challenging content before it is nerfed...

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A Casual player with ATMA weapon and in its own i84+. You can go Coil2 and enjoy the actual endgame content. It is not nerfed and you are enough geared for that. What did your thread was meant for?

All im going to say op is go try T5 without echo. there is still 1 shot mechanics in T5 example twisters, dreadnight and hatch it will one shot you. i beaten T5 currently working on T6.

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Originally Posted by Legionius

Complaining in hindsight either means your skill is at least partially imaginary

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I love these made up scenarios that ignore constant amounts of variables simply because

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Originally Posted by Legionius

you just like being a jerk to people

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Which makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Zaero

That's what I mean though! Everyone complains that Echo makes things too easy, but no one will turn it off. MMO Logic!!

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Correction, elitist logic. If Square-Enix ever gives up and implement WoW's LFR system. The outcome would be hilarious.

They could incorporate a option.

Do you want receive echo buff? Yes - No in the moment start use the Duty finder / Party Finder.

Echo Buff Inactive rewards

Hard Mode primals = 25 Myth - 15 Soldiery
Ultima, Fat Moggle, Leviathan = 30 Myth - 20 Soldiery
EX primals - Coil = 40 Myth - 28 soldiery

The minimun ILV accepted for play without echo buff = ILV90, "Hard Mode" Stuff.
The Minimum ILV for Ex primals and coils = ilv96.
Turn 5 and Titan EX = Ilv98

If you remove the echo buff. You have 8% chances receive "Double Tomes" That run.
Each player without Echo buff active, unlocks the chances received an extra HQ item.

Example

Ifrit HM drops iLv60 Weapon. If one player plays without echo buff the chances Ifrit Drop a ILV65 weapon with "2 Materia slots avaliable" 1% each player wihout Echo.

Garuda EX Drops ILV90 Accesories. Again having a players without echo buff, you can receive a Ilv95 accesories with two materia Slot available.

Coil. You can receive armors, accesories and twintania weapon 5 levels above the NQ items, with two materia slots avaliable.

This could give a incentive to the players for remove the echo buff.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

A Casual player with ATMA weapon and in its own i84+. You can go Coil2 and enjoy the actual endgame content. It is not nerfed and you are enough geared for that. What did your thread was meant for?

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Believe me I am casual. I play 3 to 5 hours per week. I was I-level 83 before 2.2 was released. Since 2.2 was released I've defeated HM Leviathan, Gilgamesh and as of a week ago gotten an atma weapon. Since 2.2 - I haven't earned more than 200 soldiery in total yet. That will soon change. Because I'm very busy in RL (corporate attorney, married, homeowner, etc.) I make sure to maximize my time when I play. If I jumped straight into soldiery farming - I would have ultimately let mythology tomes go to waste (when they could go towards the 1,500 books).

My new plan (that works quite well) is to log in - do beastmen quests while having the "Trial Duty Roulette" turned on, once I beat the trial, I turn on Duty finder Expert and continue to finish the beastmen quests. Once I'm finished with the expert duty finder and the beastmen quests I go to my retainer and send her out on an 18 hour expedition and log-out for the day. This takes about an hour and fifteen minutes everyday and nets me 80 tomes of soldiery and roughly 150 mythology tomes per day. If I do this 5 times a week, I end up with 750 mythology tomes and 400 solidery tomes. This will net me an animus in 18 weeks and will get me a decent amount of item level 100 gear in the process which I'll need to take out Twintania (if you noticed - i'm still wearing item level 70 pants and have a couple of item level 70 accessories which I plan to swap out with item level 100 gear).

So yes - that is my plan. Will I get there before things are nerfed even more? Probably not. I'd like to think a casual player can still get to majority of the challenges before they are nerfed to oblivion - but it takes a lot of work and crazy planning (which seems a bit unnecessary for a game).

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

This could give a incentive to the players for remove the echo buff.

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Why would you want that though?

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

I love these made up scenarios that ignore constant amounts of variables simply because

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The entire premise of this thread is a made up scenario. Unnerfed content exists if it's actually what the OP wants to do. If he was doing it there would be no reason to be complaining about something that has happened in almost every MMO ever made.

As others have pointed out, you don't see many top tier players complaining because they are too busy doing content that is actually relevant to them.

Variables aren't constant and since you aren't the OP, you have no idea if I am correct or not.