SE - 2.2 is Going to Cost You Greatly

I like this update. I was bored to death in 2.1 because everything locked me out weekly. Now I can grind til I get what I want. I have no problem with grinding. you people must be new to MMO if you can't stand grinding.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

you people must be new to MMO if you can't stand grinding.

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I bet 90% of them were crying 3 days ago about the lack of content and long terms goals. Which btw, i have been seeing ATMA weapons all day long for now, lots of them... Is this people ranting even playing this game? Terrible grind beyond all that is good in this world = 2 days.

SE there is a way to deny forum access to unsubbed account? if there is not can you please develope it?

Why is everyone so bent up on Zodiac fate grinding. I literally ignored it entirely.

You don't even need it. There are plenty of other weapons you can be working towards that are at the very least equally as strong.

They added that crap in for the people crying about nothing to do. You do not have to grind to get a better weapon.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Why is everyone so bent up on Zodiac fate grinding. I literally ignored it entirely.

You don't even need it. There are plenty of other weapons you can be working towards that are at the very least equally as strong.

They added that crap in for the people crying about nothing to do. You do not have to grind to get a better weapon.

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And yet eventually you will because for many people an upgraded relic will have the best stat combination and it's likely going to supercede or out-scale Allagan Weapons at maximum upgrade, even if it's not available now. It doesn't matter if it's not necessary, the atma farm is poorly conceived and a horrible attempt by SE to give players a reason to go back to the open world just so that lowbies have something to see.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

I bet 90% of them were crying 3 days ago about the lack of content and long terms goals. Which btw, i have been seeing ATMA weapons all day long for now, lots of them... Is this people ranting even playing this game? Terrible grind beyond all that is good in this world = 2 days.

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The Atma grind isn't a "long term goal", as a matter of fact there's nothing goal-oriented about it. You just grind and grind with no measurable progress--either a given FATE allows you to progress or it doesn't, and there's no difference between the two until you get your result. And yeah, a lot of people had theirs within 12 hours, but I (and many others) have been grinding these for 3 days and haven't gotten a single one to drop (and yes, I had my Zenith equipped the whole time; I'm not stupid).

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

It doesn't matter if it's not necessary, the atma farm is poorly conceived and a horrible attempt by SE to give players a reason to go back to the open world just so that lowbies have something to see.

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People have been crying about a reason to go back into the open world for months. Demanding SE get off their ass and make the open world required for something. SE does and now we have people crying still.

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

I don't think you need a piece of paper for stating the obvious.

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But the fact is that it's not obvious to everybody, just look at the multitudes of posts that would disagree with your side. I see both sides personally. FFXIV wants to play jack of all trades, and since it's knowledgeable of both yet master of none, both the extremes of the casual and hardcore base get steamed. This is the kicker tho, these extremes are in the vocal minority, think of a chihuahua, all bark no bite. So while it seems that the ship may be sinking, or sailing into heaven due to these peeps it's not. Just cruising along fine.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

People have been crying about a reason to go back into the open world for months. Demanding SE get off their ass and make the open world required for something. SE does and now we have people crying still.

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People want meaningful open world content. Not rehashed FATEs that nobody wanted to begin with. Running in a convoy from point A to point B is not what anyone wants to do.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

People have been crying about a reason to go back into the open world for months. Demanding SE get off their ass and make the open world required for something. SE does and now we have people crying still.

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Because players ask for this http://zam.zamimg.com/images/9/d/9d1...97d329a46a.gif

What they got was this

http://garethrees.org/2007/10/06/400...f-warcraft.jpg

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

People meaningful open world content. Not rehashed FATEs that nobody wanted to begin with. Running in a convoy from point A to point B is not what anyone wants to do.

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And FATEs, despite the tears, despite the crying, despite the finger in ears lalala we all hate fates, they are this games "Open world meaningful content". If they had any desire to drop lvl 50 mobs all over the world they would have done so ages ago.

What would have happened had it not been fates would have been kill a million of this random specific mob with a low drop rate and the tears would flow like a river, or they would have been relic quest 2 and had us kill primals or something and lawl that would have gone over well.

I really liked the part where they made myth a bigger pain in the ass to get than it was when it was capped per week. Its always two steps forward and one step backward with SE, every single time.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Because players ask for this http://zam.zamimg.com/images/9/d/9d1...97d329a46a.gif

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Expansion endgame, not to be expected in vanilla. Guess what endgame in vanilla XI was?

NQ Kings, 1 fights every 72 hours with a 5% (or less) drop rate. ...In other words, FATEs that only 18 people got to fight with a 3 day respawn.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Funny thing is, we're 2 major updates in, that zone was in an expansion, yes, but isn't it the FFXIV faithful who say MMO developers shouldn't be designing like it's 2003 still? That "times changed"? What he clearly meant was something more "open" rather than tucked away in an instance which everytime they seem to update the instance structure it gets more worse and worse.

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Yeah, they shouldn't be designing like its 2003 any more. I agree with that. But the fact is development takes time, and newer games have more complexity, and so logically they should take more time to develop. We will get more meaningful open world endgame, but it's not gonna happen in the first 7 months after launch.

Dungeons lag got worse cause they pushed the position update frequency to every dungeon instead of just endgame, obviously it is too much at the moment because people are spamming dungeons non stop to cap in a 4 day week.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Expansion endgame, not to be expected in vanilla. Guess what endgame in vanilla XI was?

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Funny thing is, we're 2 major updates in, that zone was in an expansion, yes, but isn't it the FFXIV faithful who say MMO developers shouldn't be designing like it's 2003 still? That "times changed"? What he clearly meant was something more "open" rather than tucked away in an instance which everytime they seem to update the instance structure it gets more worse and worse.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Expansion endgame, not to be expected in vanilla. Guess what endgame in vanilla XI was?

NQ Kings, 1 fights every 72 hours with a 5% (or less) drop rate. ...In other words, FATEs that only 18 people got to fight with a 3 day respawn.

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Huh? The point was no one asked for reused low level tier fate spams as end game content. Such as no one asked for Kings camping. This so called "You gais asked for it! now you whining about it!" is just a weak defense. The forum which told everyone their opinion didn't matter because they are the "vocal minority" now blaming bad content on them is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

stuff

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There's plenty of threads on this forum that goes into detail on what players wanted. Everyone on the forum was practically in agreement that Fates suck.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Huh? The point was no one asked for reused low level tier fate spams as end game content. Such as no one asked for Kings camping. This so called "You gais asked for it! now you whining about it!" is just a weak defense. The forum which told everyone their opinion didn't matter because they are the "vocal minority" now blaming bad content on them is absurd.

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And my point was, if you complain about something, but don't give specific examples of what you want instead, then you get what they give you. Too many people on these forums just moan about something they don't like without giving alternatives that would be more pleasing to them. That is not good feedback, and doesn't help the developers.

If you just say "we want more open world content" then they can do exactly what they did, give you something grindy in the open world to get you out of the cities.

If you say "We want open world content akin to XI's sky, with poppable NMs that drop potential BiS gear, but with low drop rate or guaranteed progression" then they have a much better idea of what to give you, and can start working on it. Either way, 2.2 content was likely planned before launch, so all of our complaints since have been for content we haven't even seen teasers of yet.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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just because you and your friends dont like it, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase doesn't...

It wouldn't matter how developers implemented the atma drops, people would complain.

Hypothetically, let's say that people had to grind dungeons for those atma drops, people would complain that they would have to do just that.

However, since it is the minority that even looks at the forums (much acknowledges that the forums even exists), the majority of the playerbase just continues on and adapt. Quietly. Nobody on these forums speaks for the majority. We can only speak for ourselves.

There are more people playing right now on my server Shiva currently, these are the people that probably come back when new content gets added. That's added a lot of people to the game already, I've even been unable to zone into Mor Dhona a few times it was so heavily congested. As of now, the major problems I've seen with 2.2 is the egregious lag in 4 man parties, and the "infinite" loading screens that I've gotten when doing dungeon runs and teleporting around.

The beast tribe quests and new Coil, when I haven't even gotten to doing beyond T3 in the first set, will give me plenty to do in my month or two of subscriptions for awhile. Plus leveling other classes and getting them appropriately geared is always still available, I'd say it's a bit of a stretch to say it's going to die out already.

I can't even play anything instanced in this game because the server lag is so bad... 2 back to back groups that couldn't even beat WP thanks to the constantly lag/DC's.
Fix this crap SE...
I'm already bored with this game and looking for a reason to unsub.

2.2 is made for hardcore 2.3 would release more crystal tower and i bet more casual stuff for people to do.

The story was absolute rubbish. The moment I had to sniff a chocobo I knew that there was not going to be anything interesting but all.

Fun fact: it's the quiet ones that leave first. The vocal ones actually care about the game.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

People want meaningful open world content. Not rehashed FATEs that nobody wanted to begin with. Running in a convoy from point A to point B is not what anyone wants to do.

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Like what? You can have something like Sha of Anger which may work but you'd still be stuck using FATEs since it would have to follow rules similar to Behemoth and Odin.

You could do a "grind 5000 mobs with the weapon equipped" but then you'd be crying that 5000 is too much or something

HNM *spit* isn't going to happen with the way the game is currently designed, so that's not an option and I sincerely hope it stays in FFXI where it belongs.

The devs chose to go the way of the splinters of Atiesh/fragments of Val'anyr but using FATEs to encourage people to leave cities instead of limiting them to bosses in hard mode dungeons, CT, or worst of all, Coil.

Your ilk asked for more stuff to do. Your ilk asked for relics and gear to become something not everyone could get. Like with a monkey's paw, you got your wish, but not in a way you expected.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

The story was absolute rubbish. The moment I had to sniff a chocobo I knew that there was not going to be anything interesting but all.

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I'm not sure what was so terrible about the story. There's a revolution brewing, we have a bunch of refugees that will probably become the bulk of the population of Revenant's Toll (my guess is that place is going to change its name once the new expansion hits), we have hints to the dagger/stealth class Yoshida has mentioned, an entire allied faction to the Scions that went missing ,and the ending scene from the Hildibrand questline even had someone walking away with a great sword equipped.

The game has become a chore for me since 2.2 hit. SE seems to be heading back towards the FFXI days with their game design and I agree it will cost them greatly. I've no problem with SE adding longterm goals or content that takes time, but when that involves stupidly low drop rates on low level content it's just bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Oh do you ? You mean you have 3 characters so you pay 3-4$ more a month than it costs for 1 character, thus paying more to get more... right?

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That only valid if they pay on monthly basic, pay in advance you the higher character limit for same price as single character account.

This patch is not as bad as some people think. Its fine. I dont see a lot of people unsubscribing, on the other hand I think there had been TONS of people who just came back after the update that servers cant even handle the instance stress anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

This patch is not as bad as some people think. Its fine. I dont see a lot of people unsubscribing, on the other hand I think there had been TONS of people who just came back after the update that servers cant even handle the instance stress anymore.

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No! Can't you see?!
All these server instabilities must be because of too much unsubbing going on..
some people..

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

The Atma grind isn't a "long term goal", as a matter of fact there's nothing goal-oriented about it. You just grind and grind with no measurable progress--either a given FATE allows you to progress or it doesn't, and there's no difference between the two until you get your result. And yeah, a lot of people had theirs within 12 hours, but I (and many others) have been grinding these for 3 days and haven't gotten a single one to drop (and yes, I had my Zenith equipped the whole time; I'm not stupid).

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Are you serious? No measurable progress? There is 12 items, each time you get an item you are making progress. You can count how many items you have, that is the definition of measurable progress. Basic science.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

No! Can't you see?!
All these server instabilities must be because of too much unsubbing going on..
some people..

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In all seriousness, I fear that some of that can be blamed on removing the auto loging feature. Of course I'm just speculating.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

just because you and your friends dont like it, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase doesn't...

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Yeah... you realize you just created a fallacious argument, right? Of course the reciprocal applies. The contextual point is that--factually--players are leaving the game despite certain people being pleased with the changes.

I love how you got any upvote's for an undeniably fail point... laughable.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Yeah... you realize you just created a fallacious argument, right? Of course the reciprocal applies. The contextual point is that--factually--players are leaving the game despite certain people being pleased with the changes.

I love how you got any upvote's for an undeniably fail point... laughable.

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Have you forgotten the people who left because the game was lacking in content like this?
In any case, don't expect much communication till Monday as I believe they get weekends off. The patch just came out and they're still reviewing the reception both in game and in the forums.
We may not hear about any plans for changes for a while simply because that sort of stuff has to go through a lot of company bureaucracy.

This patch owns.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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NOTE: Just because some & their friends dislike it, doesn't mean the whole playerbase does. Forum posts do not even reflect the playerbase's opinions ( not if it's not a massive # page thread ). And we all know how modern MMO players work, their either casually playing, advancing slowly or playing actively, burning through content and after they do that, they stop playing until the next Update.

The he ! :p

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Yeah... you realize you just created a fallacious argument, right? Of course the reciprocal applies. The contextual point is that--factually--players are leaving the game despite certain people being pleased with the changes.

I love how you got any upvote's for an undeniably fail point... laughable.

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This is an interesting notion.

Do you have non-anecdotal evidence that the reason they are leaving is due to the changes you've outlined in patch 2.2 and not for unrelated reasons?

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Oh do you ? You mean you have 3 characters so you pay 3-4$ more a month than it costs for 1 character, thus paying more to get more... right?

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Wrong
I only pay 10€ if I pay for single months ^^
9€ for 3 months and 8€ for 6 months

Several of my friends think/feel the same way as the OP. I haven't logged into the game in 2 days simply because I don't know how to tell 3-4 of my good gaming buddies that they basically just need to STFU. I feel bad because nothing SE does makes them happy. They seem locked into a perpetual "I wish this game was more like FFXI" state of mind. Let's face it, FFXIV is essentially a Final Fantasy skin of WoW. I really hate to do it but, eventually, I feel I'll have no choice but to sever ties with my friends that simply can't get over it. Patches give me a sad for this reason alone.

I welcome all the changes bar two.

The forced fate bullshit for Atma stones and the fact that to upgrade your tome gear you have to get mats from coil2, which is stupid as the gear that drops in coil2 is comparable and/or better rendering it a side grade at best, not to mention that you have to compete once a week on said materials and then you are locked out (same as high allagan)

I can understand them wanting to make the tome gear harder to obtain/upgrade although I duno why the upgraded tome gear is still the same ilvl as Allagan anyway.

I wish they would concentrate more on better itemisation, gear progression, customisation and choice, have multiple ways to obtain gear and not just throw it in your end game raid with a shitty lock out system.

I think its sad that if you can reskin WoW well enough you'll make a buttload of money.

I'd like to see a census of the userbase. How many people have actually done even half of the endgame content by now? How many people actually do grind Coil or Labyrinth or Crystal Tower on a daily, or semi-weekly or even weekly basis? What percentage of the userbase does that particular demographic represent?

I think it's far too early to even be looking at subscription gains/losses. We are way too close to the release of a major patch; of course there will be a ton of people playing right now.

However, I will say that they have lost a tremendous amount of trust and good will from me between the Zodiac Saga, low (maybe even lower than 2.1) Mythology Tomestone accrual rates while greatly increasing the amount needed if upgrading relics, and making Soldiery gear i110 based on even more Coil RNG and lockout. Gearing for i110 has a singular path now - Coil. Fewer options are never a good thing. I say this as someone with a pretty good Coil static. I can't say for sure but based on what I've seen, I'm not the only person that feels this way.

It's obvious they are trying to appeal to a different demographic with 2.2 than they were with 2.0 and 2.1. Personally, I can only hope that this patch isn't an indication of how updates are in the future.