Lack of tanks in the game

Raising the rewards is a good start for fixing tank shortage. Honestly, once your tank is geared up (easy to do with instant DF queue) there isn't much incentive to do anything outside of coil and EX modes. I, for one, will be more likely to run roulettes and such if there is a better reward. Between housing advances and glamours, I forsee a lot of new cash sinks in 2.2 and beyond.

Honestly, I don't think SE needs to give people incentives to play tanks because alot of people already love playing tank. I believe the reason for the shortage of tanks is because of 2 reason.

1. End Game is more unforgiven on Tanks and Healers.

- It requires more attention and more foresight to be a good Tank and Healer. While most DPS can go into the fight knowing nothing about the fight and may still win; it will most likely mean a wipe if a Tank or Healer is abysmal. Also, End Game mechanics dont make it any easier on us. I find it kind of stupid that even with the best gear in the game that we can still be 1-shotted by unavoidable attacks (e.i Wicked Wheel, Death Sentence, Fed Dreadnaugh etc). I understand Content has to be hard to keep people playing, but there are othere ways to make content hard without getting hit like a truck hits a fly. I dont recall getting 1-shotted like this in FFXI or WoW (Sorry, End Rant) This puts people off and alot of people dont want that responsibility out of fear of criticism.

2. Toxic Attitudes
- I think this is the True reason why we have fewer tanks than we use to have, and giving us mounts wont change that. Being a good tank is harder than it looks, but most people (*cough*DPS*cough) dont understand that and rage on the tank or healer as soon as the team fails. And its petty, people result to name calling (Noob, Bad, Trash, the list goes on). If this happens enough times to one person without thick skin, it can become stressful leading them to eventually quit playing Tank.

I think the main issue is just that true role isolation comes with a price. That, and the idea that good tank = knows dps; good dps threat management = knows tank. A good tank knows the threat periods for each dps class, or else (over)compensates enough, to never be pulled from unless heavily outgeared or a dps starts a new mob with a Firestarter crit, etc. But a bad dps, for instance, will not realize that pulling a Heavy Thrust at the same time as his MRD (no Defiance) tank's Heavy Swing, will pull, if only for a second, or that Bloodletter and Straight Shot in the same GCD is a 290 potency that the tank can't cover until his second move in the enmity combo, when it can be adjusted for by as little as using it a GCD later. Often as the number of really good tanks increases, so too does the number of dps unconscious to threat mechanics. Usually the dungeon grind is enough to gradually figure out how that works for first-time dps, but many simply don't seem to think of it as an issue of learning. That's one of the critical problems--personality, in a sense--along with the simple fact that one often never really *has* to get threat-work down as dps even during the dungeon leveling experience. (And not at all anywhere else.)

That said, I've done more Stone Vigil's with DRG or Bard tanks than PLDs or Warriors, sometimes with better results even. It just takes coordination. When tanks get bored of the job, its usually because they've given up on holding the subtle maximum of what they can do by playing according to their party, which in some compositions is more challenging than maximizing dps, or they never realized that that was an issue to begin with. Threat isolation (one dps, usually bard holding/kiting solely melee enemies, being untouched by the healer, so that the heals on the other dps, likely tanking ranged, don't pull at all), Binds, Sleeps, etc. a lot of that doesn't even figure into some player's minds until they're forced to use it because some tank writes "sry, dinner" and leaves at the start of a dungeon.

Generally, healers and tanks must both know enemy mob's dynamics. DPS just need to know tank dynamics to an extent and only when much more geared, and kill stuff fast [fast enough to oblige kill order or eliminate abilities by killing their users, in some cases]. DPS are therefore more internally complex to compensate for what little they need to watch in the battlefield.

(That's not to say that tanks couldn't afford to become more complex in their own right--it would just likely mean that eventually dps would have to re-enter the issue of threat management and learn how to deal with it, likely while yelling nonstop at their tanks for doing the best their class is capable of...)

It's kind of a tough issue... Perfect tanking can be interesting for a while, but as long as there's not much benefit in the fine edge of it, or in maximizing your own damage while still properly holding threat, the tank role is fairly dull simply because the classes are somewhat dull. But if we were to get more tanks with more interesting internal mechanics to worry about, it's hard to say if they could perform that job correctly, while already faced with a sort of a dps-clan that are well-rutted in a certain unnegotiable idea of what dps itself should be like. Maybe if dps were given more ability to snap-tank or, better yet, assist (rather than just make up for) the tank within the interplay of positioning and mitigation, that bridge would be a bit easier to cross, but it's still pretty vague to me.

tldr: During the leveling process, I like tanking for the most part because people can still pull from me if I don't watch my enmity. I liked being an undergeared tank in AK with AF+1/Zenith dps. I like tanking as a warrior when I can go full out on dps or really need to hit each mechanic of the fight correctly to survive, but in other circumstances I'd really just rather play melee dps and try to perfect my rotation while dodging nonstop. If it's a DF, I'd rather go healer and dps because that's the position I can put the most variance in compared to most healers I see. I think that's the case for a lot of would-be tanks. It's just not quite interesting enough if someone else can do it well.

Edit: (to above) I'm damn glad we can still be one-shotted by certain attacks if we've no CDs up. 90% of health or so would be fine as well, but anything less than that would make tanking rather dull. I don't mind if a healer has to make up for it in preparation and reaction, but between healer and tank someone really should have to know the fight, not just meatshield it. I just wouldn't like it if anything short of Twintania-(relative)level monsters could one shot melee with their CDs up (i.e. DRG with Keen Flurry and Foresight), partly because I would like to see dps become more tank-capable situationally (not as a replacement for real tanks without 'real' and optional changes).

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

I like the way tanking is right now, maybe *slight* improvements on enmity gains for certain skills, but something like tripling the threat on Flash would just turn this game into WoW.

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I agree with this guy. Part of the reason why i really enjoy tanking in this game is that you actually have to pay more attention than WoW tanking. I played a Death knight tank for 2 years and i can count the number of time i got aggro stolen from me. 4 TIME. Generating threat in wow is hilariously easy that i usually doze off on dungeons finders in tank and spank boss. It will probably never happen in FFXIV since the moment you doze off, a mob probably start attacking other ppl. Other improvement that i wanted in here is for the Provoke to be a bit more WoW-like in that you got like a 3 second grace to build more threat rather than +1 threat which the current provoke does.

Being thick-skinned and knowing how to learn from the criticism is the key to tanking, in my opinion.

This is actually my first ever MMO, but I'm a life-long FF Fan, and always felt like I missed out on FFXI, so jumped at the chance to play 2.0.

I remember back to picking my starting class, not having any idea on the roles that they would play, and decided to go with the Marauder and their giant axe because surely they would do huge damage... How wrong I was....

Was constantly plagued by people telling me 'L2P' and calling me a noob throughout my levelling process, but the criticism only spurred me to get better at the role, and not run away and roll a DPS class instead.

The first time I decided to sit up and take notice was when I reached Aurum Vale. I'd been stuck on it for days and days, continuously getting to the final boss and wiping due to people not AOE'ing the mobs down... Until I found the perfect party through Duty Finder - A White Mage and two Black Mages. Perfect, I thought - Huge AOE damage for the final boss. First boss, no problems, second boss and I could not hold hate to save my life, so they all left, calling me a noob and a bad tank.

Instead of re-rolling, I went away and watched videos, read up on how to be a better Tank and how to use my skills to their full potential, and hey presto, the next DF group I joined, we one-shotted the entire dungeon.

Tanking for me is all about being thick skinned and *learning* from the criticism, no matter how rude and obnoxious people are. We all seem to be saying DPS are the obnoxious ones, but I've come across loads of rude Tanks in my time while levelling other classes.

In terms of making Tanking more attractive, I really don't think giving mounts and extra rewards will make people take it up, because I really do think it takes a different kind of personality to play a Tank, which sadly, this game definitely seems to be lacking.

I haven't been tanking for long (but have been playing long enough to know what to do in every dungeon) and have been given a lot of wrong info from new dps/healers. Some adds are untankable, some of them explode and die on their own, many people don't follow attack order and then say i should focus on tanking adds better, many people use damage cooldowns before i do my hate combo and then start running in circles (especially bards) while still firing in panic and then say i should tank better.
If i was new to mmorpg or even FFXIV particularly i would think it's my fault. Maybe new tankers think it's their fault and overall tanking is a task too hard for them, so they resign.
I have seen many new tankers who didn't know much about tanking and nothing about particular dungeon, still they did their role great without any taking advices.
Yet there are some wannabe-tanks who read or hear somewhere wrong info on what they should do and then try to repeat it exactly as they were instructed, yet it causes repeatable wipes and they refuse to change their tactics.

My problem with tanking is that it feels so...boring compared to DPS. There's a lot of variety in DPS, going from low maintenance run-and-gun ala Bard, to high maintenance rear to flank Monk rotations. Every DPS has its own flavor and is fun to play. Compare that to tanks who just grab the aggro and just sit on it. To many, there's nothing fun about just sitting there rotating through enemies and doing crap damage when you could be a class that's rotating through enemies killing them fast. Plus well...in most instances tanks have the easiest jobs in terms of avoiding AoEs and whatnot, and comparing a "oh I need to move to avoid this obvious attack aimed for me" moment to a random "HE AIMED FOR ME, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" panic moment, it's pretty obvious which seems more fun.

I think part of the reason why there seems to be a tank shortage is because the party size is fairly small. There can only ever be 2 DDs and 1 healer for every tank in a duty finder party. If the party size was bigger, it might alleviate the wait times and allow for more job variety as well.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Toxic Attitudes

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I always hear this, but I rarely get it. I know a lot of players don't appreciate a tank who isn't very good at their job yet, but I can count so few times that I have actually ever been berated for playing poorly in the damn near decade that I've spent playing MMOs.

I've really honestly seen more tanks acting like punks than I have seen players treat them like crap.

I think the real problem is the value of a tank. If you make tanks require more to serve their groups, it puts heavier stress on players who already have a fair amount of difficulty clearing content that is in it's present state. If you make their job easier, the value of a tank starts to become non-existent.

There are a lot of groups that are very capable of moving through a large chunk lower end content without a tank. Tanking is just a very questionable role if you ask me.

It's like a DPS that does less damage and you only need to take big hits.

Tanks increase group damage by keeping mobs organized and allowing healers to keep everyone safe and dps themselves. Tanks also do a decent chunk of damage.

The group's goal is to kill all the things. Everyone is dps in some way.

I agree with Delorean. I see WAY more tanks acting full on rude, belittling or condescending to the DPS and healers than I see anyone acting rude to the tank.

In fact, did CT last night three times, and two of those times had a tank that started the insults almost immediately. The third run went completely smoothly with no badmouthing.

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Originally Posted by Zirael_Foxfire

tl;dr changes I'd like to see:
1) Shield Oath and Defiance learned at lv 15, but it probably won't happen.
2) Enmity bonus on Overpower and Flash tripled. Or TP/MP cost cut 1/3.
3) Range of Shield Lob and Tomahawk increased to 20-25y to help with pulling enemies across the battlefield. Having to control hate on multiple enemies and coordinate their placement on battlefield is currently too cumbersome and stressful.
4) Range of basic abilities doubled from 3y to 6y to help control enemies in packs without having to run around and constantly change enemy position. You get lots of grief from MNKs and DRGs for moving around.
5) Combo chance duration doubled to help maintain enmity holding when moving between enemy packs.

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1) Makes no sense in the class/job system they have going right now. You're giving a defensive CD to the class when it's supposed to be able to branch off later to other jobs that may not need to tank. As someone suggested, however, I'm fully on board for Shield Oath to be the level 30 skill that you learn. It's one of those skills that is almost pivotal for a Paladin being a tank. I don't understand why they made it so far off. Defiance at 30 already happens so it's not too bad.


2) Disagree with Flash. With an MP regenerating combo that Paladin Has, I've Yet to run into mana issues and lost hate on mobs on my Paladin. It's called resource management and it's something a tank should learn how to do. Same goes for Overpower and OP isn't so bad either as you normally just OP with multiple mobs 2-3 times with a couple of flashes and then run a combo through mobs. These are skills that I didn't read up on but adapted by learning my class on my own and the mechanics. Most people need to do this. The threshold is a bit higher on a tank, but not impossible for any soundminded individual to play.

3) As nice as this would be because I've run into situations where the mark I want dead first is beyond the range of me not pulling the group, it's not absolutely necessary. Would be nice, but not necessary.

4) Absolutely not. The amount of moving around that I do is solely based on if I cannot interrupt a skill with Shield Bash, or Silence. A tank needs to understand WHEN it's acceptable to move and when it's not. Just like a DD needs to understand WHEN it's right to begin your rotation. I play a ILVL 75 MNK and I have yet to complain about a tank moving around too much because, honestly, I understand it takes a moment to position and attack. It's this mentality of everything must die immediately that needs to be resolved.


And THAT is where the crux of the problem is for the lack of tanks: The rewards never outweigh the risks that a tank is going to deal with. Simply put: A tank will always be one of the first ones to be praised if the run goes well, or the first one to be criticized when crap hits the fan. And that's simply because people are asshats. No ifs, no ands, and no buts.

Everyone has a certain amount of tolerance they have when it comes to dealing with rudeness. Some people quit playing the job because they don't want to deal with the abuse. Others play the job, but make sure it's with people they know they won't get slammed on. In the end, it isn't a very forgiving role and never has been. There isn't any fix unless humanity decides to actually regain something that we are losing: being human. Being understanding. Being...oh I don't know...nice??

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Originally Posted by Kirinichibon

Tanks increase group damage by keeping mobs organized and allowing healers to keep everyone safe and dps themselves. Tanks also do a decent chunk of damage.

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Well, in the grand scheme of things when you look at what a tank contributes to a party, it's largely "making things attack me and not dying", which is something we have been doing in RPGs without a Tank for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I agree with Delorean. I see WAY more tanks acting full on rude, belittling or condescending to the DPS and healers than I see anyone acting rude to the tank.

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That's probably because you've yet to level a tank. However, don't use CT as an example of a rude tank. That place is a cesspool and breeding ground for trolls. My own experiences of tanking and dpsing have seen about the same level of rudeness directed at the tank. Sometimes the rudeness is warrented, but mostly it's some douche being an unjustified ass clown.

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Originally Posted by Suellen

I used to enjoy tanking in DF a lot. Sometimes I'd spend an afternoon just queuing for the main story line primals just to help people get through their stories (before roulette existed). Ever since CT release I've seen a steady decline in people's attitudes. I'm a casual player I don't go through content very fast. My experiences have been as such....

First time in Haukke Manor HM. "Hey guys just want to let you know this is my first" "Oh that's just bleepin' fantastic..."
First time in Ultima. "hey guys wanted to give you the heads up I'm new." 2 people proceed to drop from party. "But I've watched vid..... oh"
First time in Garuda Ex "Hey guys first time here." "are you bleepin' kidding me" "oh great" "did you at least watch a damn vid" "yes I watched several" "Well let's see if you paid attention you better not wipe us bleep"

At this point I just stopped. I haven't even bothered with the other 2.1 content (Copper HM, Thornmarch, PS) I'm working on gearing my drg up so it's at the same gear level as my warrior. It's sad. I started as warrior and love the job but you just can't be new and a tank it feels like. No incentive will change my mind and it feels like the community doesn't want me tanking anyways. so /shrug

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This is why I tank for my FC and not touch DF or Roulette anymore. I empathize. Even when you Know the fights and are polite there is still an excess of jerks. (this includes tanks when I am a WHM)

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

That's probably because you've yet to level a tank. However, don't use CT as an example of a rude tank. That place is a cesspool and breeding ground for trolls. My own experiences of tanking and dpsing have seen about the same level of rudeness directed at the tank. Sometimes the rudeness is warrented, but mostly it's some douche being an unjustified ass clown.

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Well, I definitely agree that anyone has the potential to be rude. I'm just sharing my point of view of the times when people have insulted me personally.

The three other times I have specifically been attacked, insulted, belittled etc. have also been by tanks. One in Haukke HM, one in Castum M and once in Brayflox. So, in the 5 instances of rudeness directed towards me, all of them have been instigated by tanks. Two of those instances, I had politely stated at the very beginning that that was my first time.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

The three other times I have specifically been attacked, insulted, belittled etc. have also been by tanks. One in Haukke HM, one in Castum M and once in Brayflox. So, in the 5 instances of rudeness directed towards me, all of them have been instigated by tanks. Two of those instances, I had politely stated at the very beginning that that was my first time.

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You know what? My first times tanking in Qarn (pre-nerf), Cutter's Cry, Stone Vigil, and Aurum Vale all lead to insults directed at me... no one bothered to give me a heads up. All insults were given by dps. People + internet anonymity = abundant assholes.

I grow tiresome of people always pointing to the tanks as the asshats when there are asshats in every role. Truth is we all deal with them (tanks) only becuase it's often easier to ignore them than boot them and wait for a new tank. I know many dps I've booted for being assholes....simply because they are easy to replace.

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

You know what? My first times tanking in Qarn (pre-nerf), Cutter's Cry, Stone Vigil, and Aurum Vale all lead to insults directed at me... no one bothered to give me a heads up. All insults were given by dps. People + internet anonymity = abundant assholes.

I grow tiresome of people always pointing to the tanks as the asshats when there are asshats in every role. Truth is we all deal with them (tanks) only becuase it's often easier to ignore them than boot them and wait for a new tank. I know many dps I've booted for being assholes....simply because they are easy to replace.

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Trust me, I have friends who play as tanks and have heard similar things from them. So, while I'm not a tank myself, I can understand your point. My two main jobs that I play are white mage and scholar, so I know what it's like to be blamed for a fail.

I don't see the issue with tanks being designed badly or boring in of themselves, it is the design of group content.

For trash mobs tanks just turn them away from group then click while dps burn them.

Then there are the boss fights... whoever thought that turning DDR into an mmo with a RPG skin is a good idea needs to catch the beating of the millennia. There aren't tactics, no strategies, just learn the dance (where to stand and when, the ' harder' the content the more dance steps to memorize.)

Due to this the less than a handful of fights that actually require some kind of strategy (examples: Pharos Sirius and King Mog) can be a lot of fun for the tank until they get sick of too many people not understanding that just because they got away with standing in one place only attacking one target once doesn't mean it'll work every time.

There's not a shortage of tanks. There are tons of people with level 50 paladins and warriors bumming around. They don't play because:

a) Other classes are more fun. PLD's are three button wonders when it comes to combat. While 'tanking mechanics' are an art, the class itself is as well flavored as elmers glue. Fast -> Circle -> Rage -> Repeat is not engaging, and Sword Oath is a paltry offering for a DPS option when there's no need for an OT'ing or solo PLD.

b) It's a pile of responsibility. Tanks are responsible for being fast learners or knowing a dungeon and boss fights inside and out while simultaneously maintaining overwatch in case adds happen or something peels off. The entire group hinges entirely on the tank, as they are not easily replaced and progress can come to a screetching halt if you're missing one.

c) There's no incentive to re-queue in the roulettes. The payouts are paltry, even for an 'in-need' class. You can get people rolling for tanks once a day for low level roulette and Main Quest roulette, maybe even high level roulette, but once those tokens are awarded, there's VERY little incentive to rerun to help the other 9 groups that are in queue waiting for a tank.

d) You're weighed VERY heavily by your gear by the public, and very few value a talented paladin that can hold their own next to an inexperienced someone 5-10 iLvl's higher. People would rather wait until they greed-roll a high level PLD set before ever actually tanking and shortcut their way through relic quests as another, less gear and responsibility heavy class.

e) Warriors are often seen as 'risky' main tanks because of their lack of damage mitigation options compared to the paladin, who are more efficient to heal per MP.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

e) Warriors are often seen as 'risky' main tanks because of their lack of damage mitigation options compared to the paladin, who are more efficient to heal per MP.

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Assuming you haven't played since 2.0 or something, but:

WAR vs PLD is roughly a 2% heal difference now. WAR also has a 6s Rampart every 23s maximum, a 15s Sentinel (with some added damage and small healing from +Bloodbath), Thrill of Battle, and a constant 10% mitigation from Storm's Path. While it takes more to play WAR effectively, the two tanks are pretty much on par with eachother - the main difference being Hallowed Ground which WAR only has Holmgang to match (and Holmgang sucks).

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Assuming you haven't played since 2.0 or something, but:

WAR vs PLD is roughly a 2% heal difference now. WAR also has a 6s Rampart every 23s maximum, a 15s Sentinel (with some added damage and small healing from +Bloodbath), Thrill of Battle, and a constant 10% mitigation from Storm's Path. While it takes more to play WAR effectively, the two tanks are pretty much on par with eachother - the main difference being Hallowed Ground which WAR only has Holmgang to match (and Holmgang sucks).

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To build on this, there are many fights (ones with heavy, predictable spike damage), in which I believe a well played WAR is less "risky" than a PLD. At the end of the day, however, if a PLD can tank it, a WAR can tank it just as effectively. If a WAR can tank it, a PLD can tank it just as effectively.

She said seen as, not that she believes it. I have seen this bias in other threads about how in coil the PLD is the preferred MT. Our team has found either the pld or the war can mt about anything thrown at us.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

There's not a shortage of tanks. There are tons of people with level 50 paladins and warriors bumming around.

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This is true about me and my friend - we both have tank classes, but we never step into the low level duty finder due to newbie's attitude. I am leveling pld now, as soon as i finish it i will get out of duty finder asap and never step there again.
What does a common newbie think about tanks in ffxiv? My guess based on received attitude:
- tanker's role is to hold hate, tanker has skills to do so;
- if tanker is not holding hate - he must be bad, not using skills to hold hate, being lazy on attacking every mob, so i will either troll him or give some advices from my tanking exp in other games;
- if tanker does not take these brilliant advices - he is wrong and hopeless...
- anyway, good tanks are VERY rare (i was told this yesterday in brayflox)...

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Originally Posted by Zplinter

She said seen as, not that she believes it. I have seen this bias in other threads about how in coil the PLD is the preferred MT. Our team has found either the pld or the war can mt about anything thrown at us.

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My group uses 2xWAR. It works great. Still, I would rather have WAR+PLD, but it isn't a big deal.

I would agree with SpookyGhost here. even in the endgame content the warrrior is a good viable option.

f.ex. in my static i have become main tank in 2,1 for Twin fight since the warrior has a high HP pool and inner beast with its 20% mitigation that fits well with the huge damage that comes during the fight. i will also agree with spooky that both tanks are different but closely matched in most fights.

Allowing Daily low level roulette to give the same amount of Tomes as high level for class in "Need" will increase tank participation in lower levels This however will allow mainly "Tanks" to max out their daily "Soldiery" cap faster than other classes. so it will terms look like this: Level 50 tanking low level instances with a bunch of loobies. as it stands now, there is ZERO reason for a level 50 to queued for daily low level roulette.

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Originally Posted by Zirael_Foxfire

So, according to the latest Live Letter there is lack of people playing tank jobs in the game. And the solution to solve this issue is adding 2 new mounts and 7x higher duty roulette bonus. Bonus for Low Level Duty Roulette will be approximately: 41860 xp, 3150 gil, 1260 seals
Do you agree this will solve the problem?

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I think it solves the issue of incentivate people making tanking role, but don't fix the main issue, that for me is the dps community.

Making the Tank able to kick people from party without any worry of punishment, will be a great addon. DPS can be replaced fast. And being free of kicking bitching dps have to me more value than 50,000 tomestones.

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Making the Tank able to kick people from party without any worry of punishment, will be a great addon. DPS can be replaced fast. And being free of kicking bitching dps have to me more value than 50,000 tomestones.

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So, if you're a bad/troll tank and DPS are bitching about it, lets kick them?
IMO, new tank-only mounts are enough reason to participate in low roulette as a tank (on top of instant queue and other things). For me, at least ^_^

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

IMO, new tank-only mounts are enough reason to participate in low roulette as a tank (on top of instant queue and other things). For me, at least ^_^

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Low-level roulette won't help you get those mounts.

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As of patch 2.2, the following trials and raids will count toward achievements requiring the completion of high-level duties with a full party:

The Howling Eye (Extreme) / The Navel (Extreme) / The Bowl of Embers (Extreme) / The Whorl Eater (Extreme) / Thornmarch (Extreme) / The Binding Coil of Bahamut (excluding Turn 3) / The Second Coil of Bahamut

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I do hope they count CM and what's that other main story dungeon, as a high level dungeon. I used to run those like a madman just to get full darklight back then!

Why they gotta exclude T3? Not like its too easy or anything, no... :P

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

if you're a bad/troll tank and DPS are bitching about it, lets kick them?

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Bitching is bitching. If a tank need learn more its role, that is not a reason for bitching, cannot agree on the overall "omg bad tank /ragequit /bitchmode on /havefunoftankmode on" common behavior.

Surely cannot ask all people help tank on its role, but all the hate/bitching/trolling I had when I were learning to tank, were quite excessive and this alone, will makes a good reason for the lack of tanks.

Cannot count how many times after I said "hi! I'm new to tank this", were followed by a stoned silence, and then the dps having their discutible fun on taking away aggro on purpose to show all the party how I am bad as a tank.

I think I can tell you guys from the perspective of a new player, why tanks are not that popular in this game.

1. Using the Roulette is inefficient aside from the first one each day. The bonus for being "in need" is just a joke, compared to just queuing the highest level dungeon you have access to.

2. Tanks are the most gear-dependant role. I haven't had a single issue with being undergeared on my SCH. You have to spend Gil to gear up, which no other role has to. In the beginning I just tanked with whatever dropped for me and even with me rotating defensive cooldowns I couldn't live for 5 full seconds without the healer's attention. The cooldowns, especially on MRD/WAR don't do anything unless you have decent gear.

3. Paladins are regarded as boring and warriors are almost unplayable until they get the better mitigation cooldowns later on. Again, this is from my undergeared perspective.

4. There is no reason for me to queue for a dungeon. Because of #2 I basically already need to have the gear and levels beforehand. If I barely have the level requirement, it'd actually be very efficient for me to queue for that dungeon, because the EXP is good. However, if I do that I will get hit like a truck and healers (rightfully) complain about the "paper tanks".

Never seen someone bitching if tank was at least half-decent. New or not. On the other hand bitchy tanks with "omgloldpsimouttahere" attitude for no reason are quite common. Failed once at Demon Wall? DFed into WP without relic and can't speedrun? "Bye n00bs i will get another DPS in no time". Don't open that can of worms.

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Low-level roulette won't help you get those mounts.

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It will. To tank in 8-man dungeons, one has to level tank up to 50 first - and DR still the best time/exp method to level alt classes.
So, i've got 50 PLD, but want a bear? Time to blow the dust from that newb MRD!

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

It will. To tank in 8-man dungeons, one has to level tank up to 50 first - and DR still the best time/exp method to level alt classes.
So, i've got 50 PLD, but want a bear? Time to blow the dust from that newb MRD!

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Oh, gotcha. Right.

I've played mainly DPS classes in other MMOs over the years. I started a tank for exactly this reason and levelled exclusively through instance runs.

There's no comparison between DPS and running as a tank. Half-afk as a summoner the only thing that suffers is the occasional botched rotation. Tanking requires constant attention to what's happening. As a DPS I learned by followin. As a tank, I went back dungeons to check mechanics and maps. No one else is likely to provide information to any new or forgetful members of the group. I have an entire bar of macros to tag, flag, and communicate.

I tag every instance I run and keep my mouth shut when DPS ignores flags. I stay quiet when the new guy healer isn't playing at par. I let it go when people say I'm undergeared (in on-level greens, pinks, and twink-purchased HQs) because they feel entitled to run through Brayflox with a level 50 tank. Playing a tank is not for everyone.

That said for me at least those frustrations aren't the norm. Most of the groups I've run with have been great, and have shown their appreciation with commendations and thanks. Learning dungeons and stressing out about the first run through each has really improved my own enjoyment of the game and what it took to put it together.

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Originally Posted by D00meriksen

I think I can tell you guys from the perspective of a new player, why tanks are not that popular in this game.
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1. That is correct, once you done your roulette it's time to Q for the highest level dungeon
2. Incorrect I tanked with whatever drop for me from 30+ onwards, I never spend gil buying gears, impossible that I get awesome healer in every dungeon I go to right
3. Incorrect, war are good tank, just different from PLD
4. Read 2. I leveled my war through dungeon all the way, and I always queue for the highest level dungeon I can as soon as I reach it.

With starting less then two weeks ago switching from pugilist at level 25 to gladiator I have really enjoyed the tanking prospect of this game in most mmo's WoW, Rift, The Secret World i played healers so i figured i would play a dps got bored relativity quickly and went the tanking route and i haven't looked back.
Yes there are times when dps go for the 7 and 10 spilt attacking two different mobs or the intentionally attack the mobs before my shield lob even hits the mob but it comes with the territory i guess i am an aggressive tank i don't like to let go of my aggro unless your doing something stupid like contentiously attacking a separate mob from then i let it pound on you til either A. you die or B. your learn to correctly attack the right mob.
I haven't hit the 50 dungeons yet or the hard modes if that's what they are called but the community so far has been acceptive even when i say i am new to this dungeon.