Yoshi P addresses lag. Its time to deliever...

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Getting punted a few seconds after the cast bar has completed is only a problem with Demon Wall, not Titan. Not to mention a video is not a good indicator of the quality of someones ISP.

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I've seen it happening first hand on Titan too, so allow me to disagree with you here. The main point, anyway, is that it demonstrates that not all issues are caused by some people's ISPs, and that the servers/code fail sometimes.

Also, I've noticed that right after some maintenances the duty servers worked like crap for some people that usually don't have a lot of problems, me included (and sometimes the normal servers too, with a bit of NPC lag and all that). It's a bit suspicious that it happens just then, as it looks as if the servers struggle somehow sometimes (otherwise we would suffer delays more often).

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

I've seen it happening first hand on Titan too, so allow me to disagree with you here. The main point, anyway, is that it demonstrates that not all issues are caused by some people's ISPs, and that the servers/code fail sometimes.

Also, I've noticed that right after some maintenances the duty servers worked like crap for some people that usually don't have a lot of problems, me included (and sometimes the normal servers too, with a bit of NPC lag and all that). It's a bit suspicious that it happens just then, as it looks as if the servers struggle somehow sometimes (otherwise we would suffer delays more often).

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I agree there are plenty server-side issues, but you're saying you get punted 5+ seconds after an LS castbar/animation are completed?

Would you mind posting some pingtest results just for curiosity?

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

So first off, only areas that relies heavily on dodging are instances and those have 0.1 sec updates, they changed this a few months back to make it easier for those with poorer connections.

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What happens when you increase the polling rate on a server? It takes more bandwidth as you are making requests at a greater frequency and generating more data.

If you don't have the bandwidth from the provider and increase a polling rate, you just bottlenecked your own server.

Right when the polling rate was changed for instances. Level 3 packet loss started for anyone in their routing to Montreal. There were zero issues prior.

So the issue is between SE <> Ormuco <> Level 3. Who specifically, we dont know. You don't just increase polling rates without contacting providers. Their routing or detection software might not treat it properly.

SE hasn't cared to respond to the matter, since 12/24/13.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Not to mention Verizon has been throttling connections to Netflix and such because of net neutrality issues.

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This goes beyond Net Neutrality as Netflix uses upto 40% of the bandwidth in the USA. Why do you think they just recently made $7.99 streaming limited to 2 simultaneous devices and charge more if you want more.

Also this issue with with multiple ISPs, which is more evidence that it is not a Verizon issue. They aren't throttling XIV.

These issues have nothing to do with the speed of your connection. You can have a 1Gbps connection and still potentially experience troubles depending on what route your connection ends up going. This often goes through at least two other companies beyond your service provider.

For example, some people I know who live in the states have +30MBps lines and experience latency on positioning intensive fights (Titan and Ultima for example) while I'm a considerably slower 8MBps line and have no troubles at all. The difference? I'm on the BellAliant network that also services Quebec.

These issues aren't an issue with your ISP, and they aren't an issue with the local ISP servicing the North American data centre. They are with the backhaul companies (Level3 Communications from most reports) not managing their pipe properly.

And working IT for a multinational company that has to deal with Level3 indirectly through another ISP I can tell you this: good frickin' luck getting anything fixed.

Use a VPN service (often can be found for as little as $5/month) and enjoy much faster response times. It doesn't even have to be a particularly fast VPN. If my 8MBps DSL line can handle this game, almost any commercial VPN service will do.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

This goes beyond Net Neutrality as Netflix uses upto 40% of the bandwidth in the USA. Why do you think they just recently made $7.99 streaming limited to 2 simultaneous devices and charge more if you want more.

Also this issue with with multiple ISPs, which is more evidence that it is not a Verizon issue. They aren't throttling XIV.

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Again, this statement was made as an aside, as I just found it an interesting coincidence that the 2 issues are happening around the same time. I have seen no proof one way or the other, so I shouldn't have sounded so definitive, that was my mistake. But I completely agree with you, and I believe you were a frequent poster in the links I provided earlier, so glad to hear from you on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

*snip*

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First you ask for data.
When someone slaps you with the data then you say that there are a lot of people that don't have the correct data.

Doesn't negate the fact that there is data out there does it?

Premise: If Square Enix's servers are rubbish (P), then they should be equally rubbish for everyone (Q).
Premise: The lag is not equally rubbish for everyone (¬Q).
Conclusion: Therefore it is not the servers that are rubbish (¬P via Modus tollens).

QED: It's not SE, it's you or your bad computer or your bad ISP or your bad self.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

So the issue is between SE <> Ormuco <> Level 3. Who specifically, we dont know. You don't just increase polling rates without contacting providers. Their routing or detection software might not treat it properly.

SE hasn't cared to respond to the matter, since 12/24/13.

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This SE, we know how they work, they don't talk until they have fixed the issue or have a solution with a known timeline. Its not something in SE control here really which means that we wont hear anything until its fixed, at which point why even talk about it.


If it was the ISP they use, and not being able to handle the extra load, it would effect everyone, not just a small portion of players. This is why VPN to a location that bypasses the bad nodes works. Its really out of SEs hands here and very little they can do other then report, ask for another comp to fix an issue and wait to see if they do it or not. And its SE, we will not here we are currently talking to ISP x and y to address the issue. we may here once its fixed, after a long bit of work with ISP x and y, we have found the networking issue (outside our control) and ISP has addressed the issue and the lag issues some players have should be improved.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

Yoshi P doesn't (want to) understand the real issue here. If the game can check player position against AOE on client side (like most MMORPG if not all), people will be fine even with 200-300 ping. But that will be a massive job to do.

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^ this. Server-side detection is what's causing a lot of the frustration. Also throttling, which idk about other people but my ISP is notorious for (I have ROGERS) -_-'

Worst offender in the world apparently, too. Yay Canada...

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Originally Posted by Mintyfresh

First you ask for data.
When someone slaps you with the data then you say that there are a lot of people that don't have the correct data.

Doesn't negate the fact that there is data out there does it?

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I'm not following your thought process. Ideally I'm just looking for a person with a B-A rated ISP on pingtest to post results and state that they are having problems despite having an exceptional ISP. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

Premise: If Square Enix's servers are rubbish (P), then they should be equally rubbish for everyone (Q).
Premise: The lag is not equally rubbish for everyone (¬Q).
Conclusion: Therefore it is not the servers that are rubbish (¬P via Modus tollens).

QED: It's not SE, it's you or your bad computer or your bad ISP or your bad self.

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You're great! I like people like you.

"It's not happening to me. Therefore it's your fault, your ISP, your computer. Etc."

*Suddenly you are randomly afflicted like the rest of us*

"This is a major issue and I think SE should say something!"

Best part about coming here to find support? Is other people will blame the consumer, it never ceases to amaze me. This is like an ATM eating my card and my bank telling me "yeah well it's your fault for using our ATM. Ya know the account you payed for. You should fix the ATM machine yourself."

Yup because we the user are as large and powerful as the people we have been forced to get in touch with.
:|

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I agree there are plenty server-side issues, but you're saying you get punted 5+ seconds after an LS castbar/animation are completed?

Would you mind posting some pingtest results just for curiosity?

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Exactly.

And there's no purpose to post a pingtest for this one, as it doesn't happen always and, as I explained already, you can see that it's not client lag by the fact that the server itself doesn't kill you after the hit. If it was client lag you would see the same animation but you would appear dead at the bottom of the pit when the server had made its calculations and had told you "bad luck", as you were hit. It doesn't, so it proves that it's the server that doesn't know what the F is doing sometimes and tells the client whatever it feels like at the moment ("you got hit but I don't kill you, GG").

It's as if the server mixes the order of some threads without putting a priority/order on them and ends calculating some things when they no longer matter, mixing outdated data with "current" data that it has about something else. If it was just a simple delay you would see the "correct" succesion of things happening, even if late, not a mix of them. And I guess that this happens too sometimes when some people die stupidly, as I highly doubt that it just happens to "save" us.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

But, muh lag!

If all of the above fails, it could just be general internet traffic in your area.

The more people trying to force send/receive data requests through your nearest exchange the slower things are going to become, in some cases the following may help you, however this isn't guaranteed to work;

WTFast: http://www.wtfast.com/
Battleping: http://www.battleping.com/
Pingzapper : http://pingzapper.com/

If these companies offer a 'server' try connecting to the 'Montreal' or Canada based servers (As this is where the NA/EU database centers are located for FFXIV:ARR). The rest are located in Japan.

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What is your solution all wise one for those playing on PS3/PS4?

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

ROFL. There are many many post in many more threads, wich show, whats going on.

Just a fast example:

http://imageshack.com/a/img827/9121/mc0l.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img690/6137/1m6g.png

The two statistics are highlighting the both nodes with the most packet loss. The red lines are the packet loss. I've seen another one in our fc forum, that has a node with 40% packet loss.

And now: go and play with your Barbie and stop flaming people because you don't have any problem, so it doesn't exist.

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This is the only pertinent post in this entire thread.


Level 3 is the CDN service that Square Enix uses to deliver content to it's NA & EU users - they have had issues with nodes with 40-60% packet loss since January 3rd 2014.

Using a VPN service allows you to bypass the bad nodes.

If you don't have lag - congratulations you're being routed cleanly.

Many people are not - this is regardless of the quality of their ISP and completely out of both their individual control, and their ISP's control.

Square needs to get on these guys to fix their network. http://www.level3.com/

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Originally Posted by Crevox

We follow the same rules. When the action finishes executing (cast bar, or if instant, as soon as it's pressed), targets are determined. This is the same for everyone.

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Tell that to any WHM who has used benny and have it hit cooldown as well as the person that it was cast on hit the floor.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Square needs to get on these guys to fix their network. http://www.level3.com/

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Tbh, they probably are already. I know several people in IT who worked for partners of Level-3 and getting anything done with them has been a nightmare, but as a company, SE would not want to call them out publicly as it would reflect badly on their relations. That being said you are absolutely correct here.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I'm not following your thought process. Ideally I'm just looking for a person with a B-A rated ISP on pingtest to post results and state that they are having problems despite having an exceptional ISP. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

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Here's my Pingtest and my tracert directly to Ultros. My ISP is Cox Communications and I live ~280 miles from Montreal.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1766c984.png

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0bc3379f.png

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

QED: It's not SE, it's you or your bad computer or your bad ISP or your bad self.

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SE's controls its own servers. They changed the polling rate in a server maintenance. Many players were fine prior to this change and now after experience packet loss from Level 3.

How does that take SE out of the possibility exactly? Go look at the tech forums and other posts here. Players have spent over a month trying to resolve this issue.

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Originally Posted by Doki

Even on SUCCESSFUL Titan EX runs, every time Titan does his sumo stomp, on my client everyone is knocked back over the edge and then runs across mid air. Obviously on their client it displays with them not in mid air over the edge. Even when the game isn't lagging enough to make moves undodgable it just looks silly/embarrassing a lot of the time.

Just had a friend rage quit and cancel his account last night because of the lag problem with dodging AoEs. I've known him for years, and played enough action games with him to know it isn't a hand/eye coordination OR ISP problem.

I don't understand why more AOE attacks are not like when Titan lands from a jump... make it high dmg if you are in the center, and lower from the edge. If they can't get latency right, at least make it a tiny bit more unforgiving.

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Don't you mean tiny bit more forgiving?

I guess lag is on certain datacenters cuz since i started playing, I got 0 lag anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

Here's my Pingtest and my tracert directly to Ultros. My ISP is Cox Communications and I live ~280 miles from Montreal.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1766c984.png

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0bc3379f.png

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I have a+ internet myself based on that website and my traceroutes are always in the 40ms range. However my hop (your number 11 hop) is the same issue. Some days it will be fine 40ms but some days it will range 200+ maybe over 300ms delay. That hop is the problem for me and nothing I can do about it till the next day when level 3 fixes it. Problem is they get this alot more than they should. I do a tracert daily when I get up now and if I have a bad hop day no ex primals for me that day.

Level 3 ISP needs to step up their game and fix this issue. No reason for it to range like that. Trouble ticket I opened 2 weeks ago was resolved the next day but that Monday was pure hell to wait. They are not always so quick to respond. I think since SE is paying them money to service the interweb between Montreal DC and us they might have some pull with level3 to get this matter resolved. And thereby helping alot of people with the lag problem. My issue is not comcast or se directly its level 3 but I think SE has the most potential to help right now cause they have the dollars to make them listen.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

Here's my Pingtest and my tracert directly to Ultros. My ISP is Cox Communications and I live ~280 miles from Montreal.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1766c984.png

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0bc3379f.png

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Excellent connection, you're getting aoe hit lag?
Mind telling me your PC specs?

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Tbh, they probably are already. I know several people in IT who worked for partners of Level-3 and getting anything done with them has been a nightmare.

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I have no idea.

You've got a Japanese development team that obviously has to communicate, instruct, and integrate with their own technicians half-way around the world. Those technicians need to somehow be made aware that the CDN service provider's node has issues (something you'd think they that is, Square and Level3, would be watching constantly) and address that issue in a timely manner while coordinating it so as to not interrupt successful service.

Then you've got an English speaking community that relies on very limited community managers that have to accurately translate and present that community's requests and observations in Japanese about a problem a NA tech has to deal with...

Layer that with outright complaints from players with questionable hardware using a limited ISP, sprinkle on some "White Knights", add a dash of "Nothing is wrong for me you're a bad fail f#$% with a bad computer (silent hahahaha I'm better superiority complex stroke my epeen dirty mortal) and you get:

This thread.

Right here.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

SE's controls its own servers. They changed the polling rate in a server maintenance. Many players were fine prior to this change and now after experience packet loss from Level 3.

How does that take SE out of the possibility exactly? Go look at the tech forums and other posts here. Players have spent over a month trying to resolve this issue.

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Yes SE controls there servers, and they control the polling rate. Yes they increased the polling rate resulting in more data transfer. Yes this resulted in some players having issues in instances where the polling rate was increased. Why is there LAG from this? because the ISP pathing through a few nodes that can not handle the increased traffic. could this be fixed by reducing the polling rate? Maybe, but then most players would start to have issues doing things like titan HM again due to latency (i guess they could increase cast time and make the content a joke, but who wants that)

does everyone go over these nodes? NO, Does SE control the path your ISP sends data? NO, can SE force their data to avoid the problematic nodes that cant handle the game? NO

Point is, SE can revert an improvement that helped majority of players and hurt a small percentage with LAG, or leave it as is and try to work with ISPs to deal with lag issues. Guess what the business model will away say in this situation? keep the change that helps most people and risk the loss of a small amount that will not stick it out till ISPs fix the issues, specially when it is possible to avoid it with things like WTFast and such (sorry ps3 players, you get screwed here).

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Originally Posted by Dhex

-snip-

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If I could Like a millions times I would. Instead you get a very hearty 1 Like on this end. Regardless, I couldn't agree more and hopefully if this thread accomplishes nothing else it at least informs a few people of the actual problem, and/or leads them to the tech forums to find more information. I can dream.

There are a lot of moving parts to an MMO and, honestly, I love this kind of stuff.

@KogaDrake

Square is still paying Level3. The issue is on a Level3 node.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_delivery_network

Level3 is providing CDN services - essentially a liaison between ISP and Square's network and server structure designed to handle high polling rates and data traffic.

Except it's not. Their (Level3) nodes are failing users across several different ISPs from different locations.

The action then is for Square Enix to contact and work directly with Level3 on resolving the issue.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

@KogaDrake

Square is still paying Level3. The issue is on a Level3 node.

...

Except it's not. Their (Level3) nodes are failing users across several different ISPs from different locations.

The action then is for Square Enix to contact and work directly with Level3 on resolving the issue.

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Its SE, they do not say we are doing XX, i.e., they will not be sending out notices saying we are working with level 3 to get them to fix their issues. They may pay them and may be tell them to fix it, but we just wait till its fixed to know whats going on, its how SE works. the speed and when it gets fixed is not really in SEs control, all they can do is push level 3 to fix it faster.

Still same as I and other have been saying its not SE's fault for the lag, and it is not something they themselves can fix on their own. It ultimately is your ISPs routing that causes the issues, and till it gets fixed you can do one of three things: 1 wait for it to be fixed; 2 use VPN to have some control so you avoid the bad level 3 nodes; 3 change ISP and hope they rout it another path.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

snip

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Solid connection, as someone else said, mind listing pc specs? Also, are you getting hit despite running game at max performance i.e. graphics off or as low as possible?

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

Its SE, they do not say we are doing XX, i.e., they will not be sending out notices saying we are working with level 3....

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Hush responses are stupid. Not saying anything is stupid. It's not so cut and dry like you want to believe. I have never ever had to learn how to set up a VPN for my console to play an MMO or any other kinda service. How you can sit there and defend that point is jaw dropping. You must feel so good all smug up there in your tower while we just want answers and NOT from YOU. You don't tell us what we don't know and haven't already tried. More and more people are pouring in with this issue and the tech forums are getting flooded.. We're now at 187 pages for the original topic made by a friggin staff member!

Some don't have the means to buy a VPN like you. Some are on console with no PC near them. Others have done things they had no idea how to do, a crappy DIY to fix this. I mean really I didn't go to school for IT, why the hell is it the norm that I MUST KNOW these things??? You know what your answers are to anyone not blinded by the sunlight that is this game? bull! It is terrible service to throw up those three expectations and I know a lot of people share my sentiments regardless if they love this game or not.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Solid connection, as someone else said, mind listing pc specs? Also, are you getting hit despite running game at max performance i.e. graphics off or as low as possible?

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Stop asking for specs. They have a rubberbanding problem. No matter how good their PC is they will still experience it. All it takes is one high number to cause a rubberbanding issue.

Meh Ifrit is so easy even if there would be lag.
The biggest concern would be the lags during Titant fights

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

-snip-

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Slooooow down. He was only stating the truth. All of those solutions he listed are actually the only things you can do right now. He never said he liked it, or that anyone likes or accepts it. It does suck. However, at the moment, it is the only viable solution.

Yes, SE should be more clear about what they are doing to fix this problem. Yes, there are a lot of moving parts here, and not exactly 1 thing to point a finger toward (though somewhere in the connection between Level-3, Ormuco, and SE is clearly the issue). Knowing these facts, you can either sit and get angry, or you can be patient and expect that the devs are well aware of this and are working with Level-3 and the subsequent ISPs to fix the problem. As mentioned before, if SE has any sort of partnership with these companies, or want their help, they will not explicitly call them out by name and lose face.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Stop asking for specs. They have a rubberbanding problem. No matter how good thief PC is they will still experience it. All it takes is one high number to cause a rubberbanding issue.

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Wow you got that said user has packet loss issues from just one traceroute screen?

Anyway, i had an issue with getting out of AOEs in time. My connection was fine, come to find out shadows really messed up my game - shut off shadows and i've not had an issue since.

i7, gtx 560ti, win7 64bit

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

So you're admitting that people can't avoid aoes properly due to lag?

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No, i'm saying people don't dodge quick enough to avoid the 'cast-bars' which in some places are fine and in others the time for the cast-bar versus the AoE indicator is slightly too fast or slightly de-synced. This is where the 'compensation' comes in.

When we first did T2, EVERYONE got hit by piercing lasers. After 2-3 attempts, no-one got hit by them, therefore rendering the point moot.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

Developer quote or stop speaking for them.

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That is no 'developer quote' for learning to play the game, you brainless fish.

You learn the timing for everything by simply playing the game. The time it takes for you to Press [1] wait for your heal to go off, and then the exact time you know the heal will hit and when you can heal again.

It's something you learn over time.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

As I said in my first post.

I understand that not everyone is lagging and in that case this thread isn't for you so don't post.

Get out of this thread.

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Don't seek help, and then slam someone for trying to help your situation.
Jesus wept...you're like a child, instead of taking advice you stomp your foot and cry "No, I must be right, everyone else is wrong!"

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Originally Posted by necrosis

What is your solution all wise one for those playing on PS3/PS4?

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Don't patronise me, I didn't patronise you.

But for a PS3/PS4 user, clearly using these programmes isn't an option, so your snarky comment just makes you look down right stupid.

The PS3's wireless card is horrific, the PS4 has a significant improvement on this, if you're not using a wired connection try and correct that, then follow the other steps.

I even added in the extra section to my post on the first page on port-forwarding as a potential issue that may have cropped up and may be the cause of yours (or others) grief.

But if you have a bad quality line or a few bad nodes along the hops between You > Server, I can't think of a way for you to fix that except to bring it up with your ISP, usually threatening to cancel or change provider will illicit a quicker response.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

....

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WOW, add a lot to what i said. I spoke the truth, no where did i say it is the correct thing or SE to do, or that I like the way they do things. Point is, IT IS HOW THEY DO THINGS, and no matter what we do its how it is and you need to learn to except it or not deal with things from their company, its a simple choice. I am no IT expert, but I do not know how to do most of the solutions because I don't do IT work, but plenty of helpful people who do take their time to spell out how to do so step by step. as a result I have been able to easily bypass any network issues I have seen in this game.

Hush responses are stupid, but when SE has translated responses without any interpretation errors ppl QQ it takes too long, and if they do it quick they dont give any information and ppl QQ about that, quick and give information has reasonable chance of errors due to translation errors and ppl QQ that what they said was not correct. say nothing till a solution and only those affected by the problem QQ, and in most cases, as with these network issues its a small amount of players, most who have easy temporary solutions.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

Wow you got that said user has packet loss issues from just one traceroute screen?

Anyway, i had an issue with getting out of AOEs in time. My connection was fine, come to find out shadows really messed up my game - shut off shadows and i've not had an issue since.

i7, gtx 560ti, win7 64bit

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Indeed I did, because it is exactly like my own trace. If she were to VPN and run a trace you'd see not only small numbers, but no drops or rubberbanding to boot.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

Wow you got that said user has packet loss issues from just one traceroute screen?

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Well actually, yeah. Look at the ping times of the Montreal Level3 router compared to every other router ping time.

I have the same issue from Arizona with that Level3 router occasionally. I wish my ISP could route the traffic differently, but there's probably not another Tier1 provider going directly to SE's ISP. WTFast is the only thing that will work for me when things go fubar.

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

WOW, add a lot to what i said. I spoke the truth.

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I apologize for coming off so cross, I don't mean it.. It's just so so so many of is have been in the dark about this for so long. All we have to go on is three DIY and a "hopefully" they're communicating with the right people. It really sucks to adore said game and be so limited to almost nothing. It was wrong of me to take it out on you though when you do indeed speak of these three solutions as being our only saving grace. When you come here and see people who hate how the game is complaining it eats at you because you can barely play it as is. But it was rude of me and I do apologize for having a go at you. I stand by my statement though, this is poor service/CS.

Worse part that kills me is when people say they talk to their ISP and their ISP blames SE and then SE blames their ISP.. It's so very frustrating.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

What is your solution all wise one for those playing on PS3/PS4?

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The game should be playable without add-ons. Ironic then isn't it, that a game that's apparently all about accessibility is borderline unplayable for many due to connection issues.

Git gud scrubs.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/93257104.png

http://i.imgur.com/GjYsdqQ.jpg

Seriously, git gud.

http://i.imgur.com/tjfBFsj.png