AOE Toggle Needs to GO

I like how you two are still lurking and responding to personal insults, but completely ignoring my arguments that shut down this ridiculous circus.

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

SE should only be concerned with making the game better.

They should also weigh in how long it will take to fix fundamental aspects of the game based on how worthwhile the finished result will be and how large an audience it will appeal to, but to simplify let's just say it should make the game better. Explain how it will make the game better for everyone.

So far my paraphrase for you two is "This game isn't like other games I played. Please correct."
I couldn't come up with a single reason that your idea is better than the current implementation.
In fact, I can only think of ways it will make the game worse.

*expects to be ignored again*

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Originally Posted by Shai

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

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I have earlier, which you seem to have rushed over due to the volume of posts in such a short time.

1. Eliminates problematic toggling/mistoggling of the AOE button.
2. You should not have to rely on macros to perform core AOE functions.
3. The current AOE toggle essentially limits healing classes to sit back and just spam the designated hot key and then enter.
4. Pressing enter, after you want to cast a spell, is inefficient. Remember Windows Vista user control confirmation messages? "Yes I want to allow this to happen." Same story, only this time its with every single spell I cast. They clearly fixed that issue in W7.
5. With the elimination of the toggle, more "Final Fantasy"-esque spells can return. IE: Cura/Curaga/Fira/Firaga
6. The addition of AOE spells creates a more precise and engaging battle system in which there are consequences to casting aoe vs. single target spells at the appropriate time, rather than leaving it on AOE and just spamming for SP.
7. The current SP gain works that you cannot effectively aggro more than one group of mobs. The frequent accidental pull of another mob happens. There is no "being careful" especially with the wonky camera controls and AI pathing.
8. It encourages SE to create multiple action bars for better and more engaging battles because of the requirement to switch on the fly between single target and AOE moves.
9. Removes the requirement of cumbersome macros (that dont function fast enough anyway) and allows them to be used for other more important purposes.
10. Gets rid of an unnecessary input click.

That is 10 things. If I sit here longer I am sure I could find more, but they might be a bit more abstract and you might not consider them legitimate fixes.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I like how you two are still lurking and responding to personal insults, but completely ignoring my arguments that shut down this ridiculous circus.

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

SE should only be concerned with making the game better.

They should also weigh in how long it will take to fix fundamental aspects of the game based on how worthwhile the finished result will be and how large an audience it will appeal to, but to simplify let's just say it should make the game better. Explain how it will make the game better for everyone.

So far my paraphrase for you two is "This game isn't like other games I played. Please correct."
I couldn't come up with a single reason that your idea is better than the current implementation.
In fact, I can only think of ways it will make the game worse.

*expects to be ignored again*

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I apologize for making you feel ignored Shai, however, the game will get worse if nobody takes opposition to these bad ideas. Look at history and see what happened when there wasn't anyone to adamantly say no, from the rise of Hitler, to the out-of-control trainwreck that is the Obama administration.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

I have earlier, which you seem to have ignored.

1. Eliminates problematic toggling/mistoggling of the AOE button.
2. You should not have to rely on macros to perform core AOE functions.
3. The current AOE toggle essentially limits healing classes to sit back and just spam the designated hot key and then enter.
4. Pressing enter, after you want to cast a spell, is inefficient. Remember Windows Vista user control confirmation messages? "Yes I want to allow this to happen." Same story, only this time its with every single spell I cast. They clearly fixed that issue in W7.
5. With the elimination of the toggle, more "Final Fantasy"-esque spells can return. IE: Cura/Curaga/Fira/Firaga
6. The addition of AOE spells creates a more precise and engaging battle system in which there are consequences to casting aoe vs. single target spells at the appropriate time, rather than leaving it on AOE and just spamming for SP.
7. The current SP gain works that you cannot effectively aggro more than one group of mobs. The frequent accidental pull of another mob happens. There is no "being careful" especially with the wonky camera controls and AI pathing.
8. It encourages SE to create multiple action bars for better and more engaging battles because of the requirement to switch on the fly between single target and AOE moves.
9. Removes the requirement of cumbersome macros (that dont function fast enough anyway) and allows them to be used for other more important purposes.
10. Gets rid of an unnecessary input click.

That is 10 things. If I sit here longer I am sure I could find more, but they might be a bit more abstract and you might not consider them legitimate fixes.

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1. User Error

2. You don't. You can macro, type /aoe, push Z, or mouse click the button, probably bind to a controller button.
How many ways do you need? None of which have anything to do with macros.

3. There's no such thing as a healing class.
4. This has nothing to do with AOE and everything to do with targeting, which I agree sucks.

5. There are just as many FF games where Fire is multi-target and no Firaga exists.
See my paraphrase "This game is not like other games I played. Please correct."
Your personal preference does not make the game itself better. It just makes your experience better.

6. Spamming for SP? Have you played this game since 2010? The tactical AOE vs not-AOE still exists. We have the option of using AOE or not AOE without removing the toggle and adding double the spells.

7. Apparently you have played the new SP system, but guess what they are changing the rules of claim to address this situation. It has nothing to do with toggle of AOE or not. You have AOE on and hit another group you wish to engage? USER ERROR. The claim system is being adjusted, though. I agree it is flawed.

8. How does multiple action bars make the game better? Explain it to me where it's not your personal preference.

9. There's no need to macro AOE. There's nothing "cumbersome" about /aoe. Thanks for repeating #2 to fluff your list.

10. It's necessary if you want to avoid USER ERROR. I assume you're trying to tell me this "streamlines" the battle process, but I would counter that adding 2x the amount of spells is more cumbersome. So I have to say this is possibly personal preference and not an actual benefit to gameplay itself.

You got 10 more? Oh, I mean 9 more - or an answer to #8?
Sit there longer and find ones that are actually substantial. I could do this all night.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

I apologize for making you feel ignored Shai, however, the game will get worse if nobody takes opposition to these bad ideas. Look at history and see what happened when there wasn't anyone to adamantly say no, from the rise of Hitler, to the out-of-control trainwreck that is the Obama administration.

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They were ignoring me before you showed up. You drew them out of lurking which made me LOL.

I don't want to discuss historical (or current) politics with you, and if I did, I wouldn't here. ^~

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Originally Posted by Shai

TELL ME HOW THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER.

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It would be removing an extra confirmation that contributes to UI clunkiness, spam actions, and frustration. All three of these elements are things that the dev team has said they are committed to correcting.

This mechanic also contributes to laziness and making bad choices. Since people don't feel like switching modes (and just spam pushing through the confirmation), they just AoE everything. Plus, it's easy to accidentally cast AoE nukes when you don't mean to and pull adds. Considering the game has failed to make fights challenging, that's not such a big deal at this point. But after they finish with the battle system revamp and do some balancing (they have said they want to place more emphasis on crowd control), this may turn out to be a larger problem.

i personally want the AOE toggle gone completely but i figure a toggle mode would better.

why is it so hard to make it where you switch it as a mode?
example
click button.... AOE ON
charge-cast
charge-cast
charge-cast
k, click again... AOE OFF
charge-cast
charge-cast
charge-cast
someone once asked me "well what if i forget and it just messes everything up?" THEN BE A BETTER PLAYER if thats your worry. you know, MMOs shouldnt disney walks in the park, alot of hardcore gamers consider battle efficiency just as important as over all fun.

There's a subtargeting prompt, but there's no AOE prompt.

I click Cure. It hovers over a target. I choose the target and push enter.
There's no extra hidden "DO YOU WANT AOE?" prompt. You guys are making it up.

Does targeting need to be more intuitive? YES.
Does toggle AOE have anything to do with it? Not really, no.

You're only rank 24. It's not too late to play something less frustrating, Rowyne!!!!!

I recommend Archer or Pugilist. Give it a whirl.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

It would be removing an extra confirmation that contributes to UI clunkiness, spam actions, and frustration. All three of these elements are things that the dev team has said they are committed to correcting.

This mechanic also contributes to laziness and making bad choices. Since people don't feel like switching modes (and just spam pushing through the confirmation), they just AoE everything. Plus, it's easy to accidentally cast AoE nukes when you don't mean to and pull adds. Considering the game has failed to make fights challenging, that's not such a big deal at this point. But after they finish with the battle system revamp and do some balancing (they have said they want to place more emphasis on crowd control), this may turn out to be a larger problem.

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using your own admission it is user error clicking the wrong toggle button that causes that same inept player from picking the aoe spell instead of the single spell. if they can't get a big green button correct then they will not be able to tell the difference in the small icons.

if you are constantly pulling other mobs because you fail as a mage that is not a problem with the game. it is a problem with your gameplay and you should work to get better.

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Originally Posted by Shai

You're only rank 24. It's not too late to play something less frustrating, Rowyne!!!!!

I recommend Archer or Pugilist. Give it a whirl.

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nah don't want that because they'd get mad they couldn't figure out how to use flurry because hitting heavy strike was too hard to understand or that if they were clicking multishot it wouldn't shoot the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Shai

You're only rank 24. It's not too late to play something less frustrating, Rowyne!!!!!

I recommend Archer or Pugilist. Give it a whirl.

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I play healers in all my MMOs. I have no desire to be anything else.

Besides, it's taken me since launch to get to R24. Forcing myself to play through this frustration and getting this high feels like a major accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

if you are constantly pulling other mobs because you fail as a mage that is not a problem with the game. it is a problem with your gameplay and you should work to get better.

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I've played endgame raid healers in plenty of other environments with no problem where I have many complicated choices to make and many buttons to push. It's not ineptitude on my part, it's a problem with the clunky UI.

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Originally Posted by Shai

They were ignoring me before you showed up. You drew them out of lurking which made me LOL.

I don't want to discuss historical (or current) politics with you, and if I did, I wouldn't here. ^~

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Fair enough, but my point is without opposition, these ideas can get implemented with total disregard for how flawed they are. Like you said, removing the toggle won't make the game any better, and any flaws it may have are already being addressed. There is no need to remove it when the issues have been addressed with the rest of the battle engine.

I do think that current the current state of AOE casting is a bit of a joke that there is no penalty for it. When healing it is just mindless with AOE Cure's and Sacrifice. Maybe they should make AOE cost twice as much MP and take 50% longer to cast that might help with the AOE spam a bit I suppose.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I do think that current the current state of AOE casting is a bit of a joke that there is no penalty for it. When healing it is just mindless with AOE Cure's and Sacrifice. Maybe they should make AOE cost twice as much MP and take 50% longer to cast that might help with the AOE spam a bit I suppose.

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it'd be a nice idea to allow those mele classes to die repeatedly in battle due to their wishes for this to happen then they go to complaining they die all of the time. if you are just healing as a mage then you are pretty fail as a mage. there is much more you are responsible for in a party than just throwing out a random heal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I've played endgame raid healers in plenty of other environments with no problem where I have many complicated choices to make and many buttons to push. It's not ineptitude on my part, it's a problem with the clunky UI.

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i'd have to disagree. if you cannot figure out if the big green light is lit aoe is on and if it is not lit it is off there is no hope. it is very simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

using your own admission it is user error clicking the wrong toggle button that causes that same inept player from picking the aoe spell instead of the single spell. if they can't get a big green button correct then they will not be able to tell the difference in the small icons.

if you are constantly pulling other mobs because you fail as a mage that is not a problem with the game. it is a problem with your gameplay and you should work to get better.

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Liking this one, you hit the nail square on the head, there is no such thing as a system that is immune to complete human stupidity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

if you are just healing as a mage then you are pretty fail as a mage. there is much more you are responsible for in a party than just throwing out a random heal.

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I realize that. Do I want to be a pure healing class? Yes. Do I have that option right now? No. But that should change with the upcoming job system and addition of dungeons. Looking forward to White Mage and tweaked combat difficulty.

After they finish with the battle system revamp why they just don't add -ga spell for aoe (like FF XI) ?
No more mistake, no more yellow mob kill, no more SP loss...

And why an aoe and a single spells cost the same MP at this time? It's make a lot of people always cast AOE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I do think that current the current state of AOE casting is a bit of a joke that there is no penalty for it. When healing it is just mindless with AOE Cure's and Sacrifice. Maybe they should make AOE cost twice as much MP and take 50% longer to cast that might help with the AOE spam a bit I suppose.

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Well, I don't know what this means as much as the next guy...

...but they are changing enmity algorithms. I'm assuming this will affect all classes/abilities including healing. That's just an assumption, though. AOE isn't exactly to blame for this imbalance as much as enmity. If you played XI you would notice a huge spike in enmity when casting any AOE spells (heal or nuke) and I don't think it should be that drastic in this game because this game is designed for party on party fighting (as opposed to party vs 1 mob in XI) but it should be addressed.

I am hopeful it will be addressed. I feel I could (and do) cure spam and generate next to no enmity. I have never pulled hate off ... any other job (THM included, who generates no enmity other than DOT spam) simply by cure spamming. Protect, Shell and Raise on the other hand make mobs go nuts. Haha. I don't get it.

Again though, it has nothing to do with the TOGGLE of AOE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it'd be a nice idea to allow those mele classes to die repeatedly in battle due to their wishes for this to happen then they go to complaining they die all of the time. if you are just healing as a mage then you are pretty fail as a mage. there is much more you are responsible for in a party than just throwing out a random heal.

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What I am referring to is more to do with players standing near the tank and spamming everything they can because they know they will get healed by the AOE if they pull hate. By increasing the cost of AOE and cast time it will make players focus on managing their enmity properly as the Mage will most likely return to single target casting for Cures on the tank. That is just the healing side, having no penalty on AOE on nukes/debuffs and everything else is just /easy mode and is something they should definitely be looking at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shauni

After they finish with the battle system revamp why they just don't add -ga spell for aoe (like FF XI) ?
No more mistake, no more yellow mob kill, no more SP loss...

And why an aoe and a single spells cost the same MP at this time? It's make a lot of people always cast AOE.

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XIV is designed for multiple mob encounters and XI isn't.
They are addressing the claim system with battle updates so "yellow name mob" situation should go away.
It has been commented on twice now by developer posts.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I play healers in all my MMOs. I have no desire to be anything else.

Besides, it's taken me since launch to get to R24. Forcing myself to play through this frustration and getting this high feels like a major accomplishment.



I've played endgame raid healers in plenty of other environments with no problem where I have many complicated choices to make and many buttons to push. It's not ineptitude on my part, it's a problem with the clunky UI.

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News flash, so do I.
I have R50 Conjurer & Thaumaturge. I love both equally.
I mis-cast with AOE very rarely. I also am equipped to tank any particular errors I may aggro undesirably.
Your personal preference vs my personal preference.
"I want it to play like other games I played. Correct it." vs "It's functioning well and serves its purpose. Leave it alone."

There comes a time when you have to admit to yourself (and I've done this on many MMOs) "I don't really enjoy playing this class and I do enjoy playing it in most games. I should probably stop playing it, or find a new game." You can't just cry about core functions as if they're inherently bad when you can't offer up valid reasons why they would be better off gone besides personal preference and "feels like old FFs."

I'm sorry if you don't like AOE toggle. I have no problems with it and I only play end-game healer.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

What I am referring to is more to do with players standing near the tank and spamming everything they can because they know they will get healed by the AOE if they pull hate. By increasing the cost of AOE and cast time it will make players focus on managing their enmity properly as the Mage will most likely return to single target casting for Cures on the tank. That is just the healing side, having no penalty on AOE on nukes/debuffs and everything else is just /easy mode and is something they should definitely be looking at.

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Off-topic still.

No one said remove AOE spells or make them have more penalties.
This thread is about removing the toggle because it's so damn difficult to use. (LOL)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

What I am referring to is more to do with players standing near the tank and spamming everything they can because they know they will get healed by the AOE if they pull hate. By increasing the cost of AOE and cast time it will make players focus on managing their enmity properly as the Mage will most likely return to single target casting for Cures on the tank. That is just the healing side, having no penalty on AOE on nukes/debuffs and everything else is just /easy mode and is something they should definitely be looking at.

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i understand your point, but i am looking at the most challenging fights we have at this time are the laughably easy notorious monsters. even with using the great buffalo with his aoe attack if the mage gets twice the cost of an aoe spell then you will have mages running out of mp before you are halfway through the battle.

i do agree that mages that constantly spam aoe should be pulling more hate than they are now which would make them use it less often, but on mobs that use alot of aoe attacks it would be the death of most of the party unless you had 4 mele with 4 mages only healing them.

this does not change the fact that by the complaints of what they want it will not improve the game and make people happy. by doubling the amount of spells to sort through and having to select the correct one rushing through multiple actions bars they are just asking for more clutter. at this point we should only be looking at ways to improve the overall game by fixing the things that are broken and not what some guy cannot get done that is actually in place and works.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'd have to disagree. if you cannot figure out if the big green light is lit aoe is on and if it is not lit it is off there is no hope. it is very simple.

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I see. Resort to insults when you can't give a valid argument. Calling me stupid doesn't change the fact this is bad UI and combat design.

Sorry I admit I did skip through this topic as I have to get to work, didn't realise it was solely about the toggle ^^

Yeah if they think toggle is hard to deal with then try managing you action bar with double the amount of spells on it because they remove it O.O

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Yeah if they think toggle is hard to deal with then try managing you action bar with double the amount of spells on it because they remove it O.O

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Actually, I'm all for that. I want to see all my action bars, all the time. I'm used to having 3-5 on my screen at once (loaded up with spells, abilities, and potions) in other games.

That way I can select with a single click of my mouse, or #/ctrl+#/alt+# and it goes off instantaneously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I see. Resort to insults when you can't give a valid argument. Calling me stupid doesn't change the fact this is bad UI and combat design.

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valid argument? you are the one that cannot give a valid argument as to why your method would be any better than the one in place. i was not saying you were stupid. i was saying if you cannot see the big green light because you want to get in a rush that is not the fault of the game.

the game has a system in place and it is a better system than doubling the amount of spells and adding multiple bars to sort through. the last thing this game needs is more clutter taking up space. one click of a mouse or key is alot easier than trying to look through multiple rows of spells to find the correct one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I see. Resort to insults when you can't give a valid argument. Calling me stupid doesn't change the fact this is bad UI and combat design.

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And ignoring my posts doesn't stop them from tearing you apart with glaringly obvious logic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I see. Resort to insults when you can't give a valid argument. Calling me stupid doesn't change the fact this is bad UI and combat design.

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[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Also, I do not buy your statment of playing since launch, seeing as how your signature shows you have no classes greater than r24. I started with the CE launch, hit lv50, and have every class ranked up between r10~r46. Even if you started at launch, it's painfully obvious you haven't been online in months, so what right have you to say what is good and what needs to go?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, I'm all for that. I want to see all my action bars, all the time. I'm used to having 3-5 on my screen at once (loaded up with spells, abilities, and potions) in other games.

That way I can select with a single click of my mouse, or #/ctrl+#/alt+# and it goes off instantaneously.

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...and I prefer the UI be mostly off the screen. I don't want 3-5 bars in the way.

News flash: CTRL+1 can easily be /aoe Cure /aoe
PROBLEM SOLVED.

You'll still have to sub target, but that's how I always play healer.
My 11 macros are all /ma Spell <stnpc> or <stpc>
So it's exactly like games I've played and enjoyed.
We're on equal ground now!

Even if you don't sub-target, you have to target before you start casting.
It takes the same amount of time.
Come out of your comfort zone and learn to adapt.
The Twelve know this targeting system has certainly tested me as a healer the last 9 months. LOL.

Do you see how you're just stomping your foot about things you prefer?
You're not attempting to improve the game, you just want to change the UI to one you prefer.

Still waiting on Tibian's next attempt to tell me how it will make the game better.

They may be abstract, though, and I might not consider them legitimate.

Nice escape plan. ^^

I dont like this AOE toggle.
I think separte single target spells and "-ga" spells would make it feel more like a FF.
But i do see the problem with having too much spells to put in your action bars. Hope SE Can find a better solution for the AOE toggle.

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Originally Posted by Shai

There's a subtargeting prompt, but there's no AOE prompt.

I click Cure. It hovers over a target. I choose the target and push enter.
There's no extra hidden "DO YOU WANT AOE?" prompt. You guys are making it up.

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Pushing enter goes hand in hand with the AoE prompt issue. The toggle is included in the final confirmation of casting the spell.

There are way too many steps in this game to throwing a cure on someone.

How it works:

1. Select a target
2. Hit enter to bring up your action bar
3. Flip action bar to find your cure spell
4. Select Cure
5. AoE toggle button appears in middle of screen. Toggle and/or hit enter to confirm (1-2 steps depending)

That's up to 6 steps.

How it should work:

1. Select target
2. Select Cure. There should be no flipping of action bars because they should show all at once. And cure should go off immediately with no extra confirmation.

That would be two steps.

I'd much rather go through 2 steps than 6. Removing the AoE toggle and the annoying confirmation you have to perform every single time you cast a spell would greatly streamline casting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shai

You're not attempting to improve the game, you just want to change the UI to one you prefer.

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My UI preferences are besides the point. This is an issue of efficiency vs inefficiency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meph

I dont like this AOE toggle.
I think separte single target spells and "-ga" spells would make it feel more like a FF.
But i do see the problem with having too much spells to put in your action bars. Hope SE Can find a better solution for the AOE toggle.

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the reason why not was already mentioned, also the -ga spells haven't always been AoE, sometimes they've been powerful single-target spells, you may not like the toggle, but it does streamline things and allows for essentially 2 spells to be tied to one slot in the action bar.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Also, I do not buy your statment of playing since launch, seeing as how your signature shows you have no classes greater than r24.

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I've been playing since closed beta. I started on Rabanastre, then created a new character on Besaid a week after launch.

If you don't believe me, look up my character history on the Lodestone. It doesn't lie.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

so what right have you to say what is good and what needs to go?

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Maybe the reason I don't push myself to grind to 50 is partly because of the frustration factor of things that sorely need to change in this game.

That doesn't change the fact that I've remained loyal to it and my opinions are just as valid as yours.

Wrong the steps are as follows:

1. select action bar
2. select spell (hit the corresponding number on the keyboard)
3. confirm target (at this time, you can hit z to toggle the AOE on/off as you need, it is part of the step)

Assuming you have your most commonly used spells in the first action bar, the first step can be omitted for a grand total of get this, TWO STEPS!

Once again, your logic, is fail.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Once again, you're logic, (and your counting skills) are epic fail.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

1. select action bar
2. select spell (hit the corresponding number on the keyboard)
3. confirm target (at this time, you can hit z to toggle the AOE on/off as you need, it is part of the step)

Assuming you have your most commonly used spells in the first action bar, the first step can be omitted for a grand total of get this, TWO STEPS!

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There is no way to know for sure which action bar is queued up, so I can't accept that going off memory or chance is a valid reduction of a step.

Lumping in 2-3 actions in #3 doesn't make them a single step, they are still multiple clicks/enters (and whatever the controller does, I have no idea since I play with kb/mouse).

There is no way you can reduce it to two steps.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I've been playing since closed beta. I started on Rabanastre, then created a new character on Besaid a week after launch.

If you don't believe me, look up my character history on the Lodestone. It doesn't lie.



Maybe the reason I don't push myself to grind to 50 is partly because of the frustration factor of things that sorely need to change in this game.

That doesn't change the fact that I've remained loyal to this game and my opinions are just as valid as yours.

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I said I leveled to 50, I didn't say I pushed myself to do it. (you can check my history for proof)


Speaking of historys, yours shows no activity between 1/9 and 4/2, and very little activity from then until May, looks like my accusations aren't off base. You can't make good judgments of what needs to stay and what needs to go if you haven't played for months.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

The fact that you felt the need to respond to my statement validates my argument.

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LOLwut?

At this point you're just trolling.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

And so is your spelling (you're). Oh, look, I can resort to childish insults, too.


Apparently you don't know how to count, either.

There is no way to know for sure which action bar is queued up, so I can't accept that going off memory or chance is a valid reduction of a step.

Lumping in 2-3 actions in #3 doesn't make them a single step, they are still multiple clicks/enters (and whatever the controller does, I have no idea since I play with kb/mouse).

There is no way you can reduce it to two steps.

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sure you can, they are done at the same time time. If you don't use a key board over the crappy gamepad map, that's not my problem.