Why is Myth gear as good as Allagan gear, or even better?

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Originally Posted by Marzapan

I guess I think it's lame that you can get the best gear in the game w/o beating any of the 'hardest' content of the game.

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The problem is the RNG. Let's assume you're like me and your luck is utterly abysmal when it comes to gear drops: You could spend several months running the different turns of Coil (because you only get 1 shot a week, which means about 3 attempts per month), hoping to see the piece of gear you need and it never drops. The people whose gear does drop gets to lot on that gear and progress themselves while you're constantly stuck and the mercy of an RNG that hates you.

Myth tome gear is to give people like me an alternate avenue of gear progression. We have utterly shit luck in Coil and can't earn anything new via those drops. So, we get Myth tomes and can spend those on gear that is pretty darn equivalent to the i90 gear that the people who are actually winning Coil drops get.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

really? progress? how do you consider it progress if you never level ilvl55 content and you end up with the best stuff in the game? progress is earning ilvl55 stuff from the ilvl 55 dungeon, then going to ilvl 70, then 80, then 90... thats progress. not earning 55, 70 and 90 gear at the same time, in the same place.

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Progress by improving your own character. It doesn't have to fit your own narrow view, but you can't just expect to give casual players artifact 1/ilevel55 gear and expect them to be happy and keep playing.

Also, not everyone has a static, not everyone plays during peak hours, not everyone has the time/patience to install voice chat software and listen to other people complain all night.

Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

ive never seen any other game hand you free best gear in the game because people are stupid. and i didnt say not everyone who likes myth the way it is isnt good enough for coil, but there is a population who absolutely refuse to do any coil at all because they think its too hard.

i mean really, would WoW have been as big as it is/was if the heroic dungeon loot was found in their regular mode counterparts? no one hands out gear of the highest level just for the fact that pick up groups are stupid. if this game had any difficulty before titan, it wouldnt be an issue. the game literally lets you spam flash in fates to level up, then when you actually have to know how to play (read: move out of the way), its too much to ask.

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Okay. I get that you'd be upset at the "population who absolutely refuse to do any coil at all because they think it's too hard". And I'll be honest I was intimidated too, and my first attempt with a pug group was a horrible experience. We couldn't even take ADS past 50% because we didn't even have the right party make up. Beyond that, it actually could have been doable, we had two Plds but they couldnt work together to pull off a silence rotation. So yeah, insta-fail for everyone. It was bad. People who avoid content just because it's "too hard" then you don't need to worry about them.. because you know what, they won't be running that content with you. And as I also already stated, you'd be getting the best weapons in the game while those that didn't want to run the content would never be getting it because of that. Not sure why you could be upset about that.

I did try T2 with a friend and his coil static one night since they needed a dps replacement. It was surprisingly way easier than I thought it would be, when actually running with competent people. That was my final experience with coil so far and likely will be for some time, thankfully it was a pleasant experience and furthered my belief that coil pugs are bad, compared to competent groups that know how to play the game. I will stand by that forever.

But Myth gear is hardly free. Though I can run dungeons, and I can DF/DR them as well, there is no guarantee that I won't end up with a group of said people that are retarded and that they will make my experience unenjoyable and even unsuccessful. I guess I have just been lucky, but out of all the DF/DR high level dungeon runs I've done since 2.1 launched I have only had 2 bad/incomplete runs and both just happened to be Pharaohs' Sirius dungeon attempts. Everything else so far, even with a not so great player here or there has been successful and relatively enjoyable to do. Personally I find the new HM dungeons to be quite fun and they were a bit challenging at first, when figuring out the tactics.

Still, as I said before, with the new system it takes 1-2 weeks just to obtain 1 piece of myth gear (and it used to take even longer), whereas if you were to do a full coil run from T1-T5 you get not only a chance at several Allagan pieces, but also the best weapons in the game that are only obtainable via completing Coil. There are no comparisons when it comes to those weapons.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

really? progress? how do you consider it progress if you never level ilvl55 content and you end up with the best stuff in the game? progress is earning ilvl55 stuff from the ilvl 55 dungeon, then going to ilvl 70, then 80, then 90... thats progress. not earning 55, 70 and 90 gear at the same time, in the same place.



its only horizontal if there are multiple ways to collect that level of gear on that same scope...what this is is a backwards slanted method, where you can get xyz stuff for doing this content up here, orrr you can just kick a couple of tonberries and we'll give it to you anyway

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I'm not sure how this still affects you. You can even blacklist these casual peons and go about your way. You still get unique and powerful gear. Your gear will still eventually be obsolete. Its all ephemeral. Are you having fun? I hope you are. They are too.

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Originally Posted by Marzapan

If crafted gear isn't as good as 'loot' gear because the game wants you to earn your gear from farming monsters, not from farming gil.
Doesn't it follow then, that better gear should drop from harder monsters?

Shouldn't Allagan gear be better than gear you can get from wpsr?
Myth gear being as good as or better than Allagan gear doesn't make any sense to me.

Opinions?

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Opinions? Like a Bard should level LNC for blood for blood? Talking about casuals when what you have leveled screams casual is pretty pretentious.

Gonna have to say troll.

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Originally Posted by Griffster

Opinions? Like a Bard should level LNC for blood for blood? Talking about casuals when what you have leveled screams casual is pretty pretentious.

Gonna have to say troll.

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You must not have read the whole thread, because I DO consider myself to be a casual player, as I implied earlier.

considering how i've seen maybe 5 unique healer drops in coil... i'd be SoL

it's better to have alternate gearing paths

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Originally Posted by Marzapan

I don't think anyone is saying that there should only be 1 path to i90 gear.
What I'm saying is that getting i90 gear from i55 dungeons is a tad lame.
And this is comming from a pretty casual player, despite what some people may think I said...

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so basically you want tomestones of mythology to only be obtainable from coil?

i mean there's tons of players who at most only do turn 1 and maybe turn 2.. they would get left behind pretty quickly compared to those who clear coil every week

the best weapons in the game are only obtainable from the hardest boss currently so i feel like that's something to look forward to for players who are actively progressing/clearing coil every week

I don't think anyone is saying that there should only be 1 path to i90 gear.
What I'm saying is that getting i90 gear from i55 dungeons is a tad lame.
And this is comming from some one who thinks he's a pretty casual player, despite what some people may think I said...

Personally I like a logical system of ilvl gear matching it's ilvl dungeon/etc. I do think it's a little strange the way they implemented the token system in this game, as it encourages players to repeat the same dungeons instead of continuing up the ladder. I assume the devs are trying to encourage more players to stick around by offering easy access to tomes, but I wish that instead of handing out ilvl90 gears for WP speedruns that they had just made it easier for everyone to challenge higher level content. For example, by simply adding coil to the duty finder they make it available to a larger group of players than just those who can make specific raid times or shout all day (yes I know about party finder). An easy fix, and a better approach that players will appreciate more in the end than handouts.

This is a sore topic for me as I am old school, and think that items attained from easier methods should not be equal to what is rewarded for harder non-casual content. Why might you ask? Its simple, that's harder, better reward. I suppose this new generation of gamers are into instant gratification and will argue to no end that it's unfair this way in some strange convoluted way. I get it I really do, people don't want a challenge to attain the best stuff and everyone is a special snowflake that each gets their own.

Believe it or not communities have driven MMO's to this state of lackluster end-game content. Take a game like EQ, yea it took you four months to get to max level, wow grindy right, wrong. The entire time you were leveling up everything scaled to require the tier below it to succeeded, so you were constantly trying to min max your items along the way. Then once you got to end game raids your would farm whatever end zone your team was geared for to be able to go-to the next. What has this "grindyness" been replaced with..... getting to max level in a couple weeks then grinding the same shit for 6 months to achieve the same thing.

I have all but quit this game, minus a raid once or twice a week, and even that is pointless; because, I can just farm easy stuff and get the same thing. There is no challenge in that, what is the point of even going if not for better rewards? I know its pretty fun in itself and I can handle that, but it is only fun so many times, unless your trying to get something. This is why I played EQ for 10 years and these new MMO's have yet to keep me for an entire year.

I am not going to try and argue over any "opinion" which is exactly what this post is, I just wonder what happened to the old school hard ass rpg that was so satisfying, ohh wait Waste Of Warcraft Happened. I don't even look forward to new MMO's anymore, sense they all cater to this crap, the only shred of hope I have left is EQNext.

If your position is that the crafted i70 gear isn't as good as the dungeon gear, which doesn't make sense since dropped gear is i60, or darklight, which makes more sense to compare it to, then you are wrong. The crafted gear is better than darklight if you meld it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

If your position is that the crafted i70 gear isn't as good as the dungeon gear, which doesn't make sense since dropped gear is i60, or darklight, which makes more sense to compare it to, then you are wrong. The crafted gear is better than darklight if you meld it correctly.

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That is not my postion. I understand that crafted i70 gear is/can be better than DL gear. It's the Myth gear I'm talking about.

think of the casuals guys!

the casuals!!

guys!!!

im still waiting on that myriad of logical reasons. i would at least be satisfied if one person even admitted its a little strange you obtain gear almost twice the level of the content being done. and for the people still screaming RNG.. thats why you should get coil tokens from coil.

if this were ffxi, it would be like sky level gear being earned from castle oztroja.. or earning af1 and af2 from doing the exact same thing actually.. empyrean gear. just admit its weird and makes very little sense. fine, be happy its how it is, just be honest with yourselves and dont act like this is normal. and my "narrow" view is how its worked in every game in history, you tackle a dungeon slightly harder than the gear you have equipped and you get rewarded with stuff a little better.

As of now Myth and Allagan is currently the highest ilevel gear but we will see how long that last once the higher level coils are released through major updates compared to myth tome gears being forever limited to ilevel 90 forever until the tier 3 Tomes are released.

Since the myth gear now will always stay ilvl 90 but better and stronger coil gears will become released with more coil turns from major updates (with the next Coil turn arriving in 2.2 or 2.3), myth won't stay equal to Coil gears for long since Coil turns are being released as Major updates.

Most likely once turn 6 and higher are released we will get the ilevel 95 or ilevel 100 gear from turn 6 and higher since turn 1 to 4 are the ilvl 90 armor pieces and turn 5 is the ilvl 95 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

You sure that is irony? You sure you know the definition of the word? Did you mean that SE's housing prices were ironic in light of SE's stated mission to provide a casual gaming experience in FFXIV? Because being astonished that SE delivers 'hardcore' housing prices in an otherwise casual built game is indeed the exact opposite of irony. Seems ironic to me that people use the term 'ironic' incorrectly while trying to express some kind of perceived intellectual superiority over others...

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Ironically (yep I went there), this is exactly what you're doing by showing off your vocabulary ;P

Nothing is hard in this game. That being said the second I'm req. to have raid gear by the majority of groups in order to do group content is the last day I log into ff14

you know it wouldnt be required if it werent just handed out like skittles

Myth tomes aren't locked behind the hardest content, because owning Myth gear shouldn't require doing the hardest content. That's it in a nutshell. You could argue that the amount of Myth rewarded from current LV50 content should be lowered (I'd disagree with that, btw) in order to make Coil more applicable to people gearing up. But as it stands to reason, casuals generally aren't that focused on super-endgame content like BCoB. There's no point in forcing people to do things they don't want to do -- like going to BCoB just to gear up -- if they don't feel they should have to do it. It just results in a dead game.

So, yeah. Options are nice. Something for the progressive gamer, something for the casual-ish gamer. The latter won't be seeing iLV95 weapons. Which is fine, as it won't produce a large divide between these two segments of the playerbase, and it won't alienate scores of players by forcing a standard they they cannot uphold. And that's really how it should be.

its not in a nutshell if its never worked that way before, never has any game rewarded you with gear for doing content at nearly half the level. doing casual stuff gets you close to max level gear, but then for those who chose to do the hardest content get gear that is a bit better. giving people no reason to actually do content also results in a dead game. and dont give me that lvl95 weapon crap because as i showed before, it could be a year or more of beating twintania every week before you see your weapon drop. and what happens if your group has 2 plds, or 2 blms? are you supposed to wait a year and hope your number rolls higher? are people seriously supposed to only do coil because you get a 1/9 chance per week (provided no job doubling) IF you can beat twintania?

no one has provided any logical reason why this works this way, other than "derp derp well we have it now, so no takesies backsies"

i mean really, can anyone look at any game thats ever been made, and actually get upset because they didnt get the final items halfway through the game? As much as i'd have loved to have fierce diety link at the first boss of majora's mask.. thats not how games work.

That's right! How dare lowlife peons have access to one of the best gear in the game just by doing ilvl55 dungeons?? Ths is BLASPHEMY!!

Actually for most if not all jobs, the BIS gear set is a mix of the myth and the allagan set. So yes you do need to do coil if you want to be in the best gear possible. So to sum it up, a "lowlife peon" like me will not be as good (gear wise) as those who do coil every week.

I'm merely repeating what someone already said in this thread but whatever :P

that is min/maxing and something completely different. thats for people who care about an extra half percent of dps. substats, other than accuracy (before cap) dont really make enough of a difference to bother paying attention to them.

How about you stop thinking about this from an e-peen point of view and start thinking about this from a business point of view.
How will you keep more people subscribed? Because, admit it, the hardcore population is no longer the majority of the MMO crowd these days.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

that is min/maxing and something completely different. thats for people who care about an extra half percent of dps. substats, other than accuracy (before cap) dont really make enough of a difference to bother paying attention to them.

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Min/maxing matters for people more than you think. This is why there are discussions about BIS gear for each job.

You're the one who have no logical reason to hate the fact that casuals have access one of the best gear in the game.

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Originally Posted by Cubester

How about you stop thinking about this from an e-peen point of view and start thinking about this from a business point of view.
How will you keep more people subscribed? Because, admit it, the hardcore population is no longer the majority of the MMO crowd these days.

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its not e-peen and its not hardcore. you do x level content and you receive x level rewards, either by fighting, or crafting items that came from that content. like i said, its the way everything, games or otherwise works. Not sure why people think this is unreasonable all of the sudden. there are plenty of casual friendly games, even GW2, the current king of casuals games, and not even they have anything as nonsensical as this.

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You're the one who have no logical reason to hate the fact that casuals have access one of the best gear in the game.

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bolded it for you.. thats just 1 reason, now you give me a reason. its not even a casual thing, stop bringing it back to that. i play probably 2 hours a day tops, im pretty much a casual, i just believe in getting rewards proportionate to the content you do. i wasn't aware that was a thing of the past.. oh wait, its not. this is literally the only game that has ever done this crap.

like i asked before, what are you guys going to do when the ilvl100 gear comes out and these silly low level dungeons arent going to give you that gear? going to cry about it until you quit because leaving WP is scary?

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

its not e-peen and its not hardcore. you do x level content and you receive x level rewards, either by fighting, or crafting items that came from that content. like i said, its the way everything, games or otherwise works. Not sure why people think this is unreasonable all of the sudden. there are plenty of casual friendly games, even GW2, the current king of casuals games, and not even they have anything as nonsensical as this.

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My point still remains valid. Geared people == happy people == more subscriptions.

And I would like to know why this bothers you as much as it does? Are you somehow prevented from playing the game the way you like to because people receive Myth gear?
If not, why are you complaining?

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like i asked before, what are you guys going to do when the ilvl100 gear comes out and these silly low level dungeons arent going to give you that gear? going to cry about it until you quit because leaving WP is scary?

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They will be doing the ilvl100 dungeons, just like you. Which they might not have been able to do, had it not been for the myth rewards.

really, because the ilvl 100 stuff is going to be easier than the ilvl90 content they couldnt do with ilvl90 gear. actually with the way this game is going, i dont think id be surprised. and you left a part out of the equation. geared people = happy people = nothing to do for another couple of months while waiting on new content = unhappy people = fewer subscriptions

Okay I haven't really been reading through the thread much but here is my opinion.

At first I was 100% hardest content deserves the best gear so of course I thought Allagan should beat out Myth but after doing Coil many many times and having the RNG gods spit in my face I realize that if Myth gear wasn't there then I would have 2 pieces of ilvl90 cause my luck has sucked THAT bad.

Now if they ever made it where Coil drops weren't random and you definitely could get the gear from beating it then I'll go back to my "Hardest content deserves the best gear" but if RNG continues to be the only thing preventing me from Allagan stuff then I believe it should stay as is.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

its not e-peen and its not hardcore. you do x level content and you receive x level rewards, either by fighting, or crafting items that came from that content. like i said, its the way everything, games or otherwise works. Not sure why people think this is unreasonable all of the sudden. there are plenty of casual friendly games, even GW2, the current king of casuals games, and not even they have anything as nonsensical as this.



bolded it for you.. thats just 1 reason, now you give me a reason.

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FFXIV works that way so where's the problem again? You need to do coil and farm myth to get your BIS gear. You have been provided several reasons why casuals can do away with 2nd class gear but you are too close-minded to understand it. Those casuals are not ruining your life. Casuals are not torturing you.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

really, because the ilvl 100 stuff is going to be easier than the ilvl90 they couldnt do. actually with the way this game is going, i dont think id be surprised. and you left a part out of the equation. geared people = happy people = nothing to do for another couple of months while waiting on new content = unhappy people = fewer subscriptions

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Yes, because infinitely farming stuff for ilvl90 == content.
Let's see what makes people leave faster. Actually getting their items, or not getting them at all due to multiple factors in raiding.

ITT: people who thought FFXIV was going to be the ultimate hardcore-community catering game of the year and are butthurt it's not.
If you don't like the way the game is set up, there is nothing stopping you from leaving and playing a game more suited to your "omg pwn leetness"

ITT: people who think BiS actually matters in FFXIV
Because having 2 more Str really made a difference in Coil

Because you get 6 pieces of loot a week in Coil and people would quit if that was the only method to get the best stuff

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

im still waiting on that myriad of logical reasons.

if this were ffxi, just admit its weird and makes very little sense. fine, be happy its how it is, just be honest with yourselves and dont act like this is normal. and my "narrow" view is how its worked in every game in history, you tackle a dungeon slightly harder than the gear you have equipped and you get rewarded with stuff a little better.

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Your problem here is that you perceive how things should be, like there's only one way to go about doing things and if you don't go that way then you made the wrong choice.

FFXIV is designed to cater to the casual MMORPG gamer with a touch of hard in Coil to keep around any mildcore-hardcore gamers that may choose to play, to give them something more than silly stuff only casual players care about. This truth has been obvious for some time with how fast levels go by, how easy content in general is, how there's no fear of death you just run away and the monster eventually gives up and runs back to his spot, how the battle system is so forgiving that TP MP and HP just ticks to full in mere seconds once out of combat, there's no group exp outside of dungeons, and after years of complaints in FFXI - how we earn tomes for gear rewards and an easy relic quest and a crafting system that rewards 100% HQs if done right.

I could go on. You ask for logic in regards to why ARR is the way it is. It is it's on game. There's no law that states you must follow the tiresome MMO code of design. It's becoming a stagnant department for gaming and devs everywhere need to start taking chances to push the genre forward. SE hasn't even really done this. All they've done is go the F2P design route but skip the online store and currency in favor of a sub fee. It's essentially what FFXIV is. And sadly we better get used to it because the pay to play games are a dying breed as companies realize human beings will pay a premium to get their fix NOW instead of LATER.

Also, their logic is money! FFXI was great, but it didn't do anyone at SE any favors with how many gamers it pushed away. They aimed to do better this go around and it paid off. Even offline games have been suffering for a decade on challenging content because developers want gamers beating their games so they'll buy the sequels. Getting your ass kicked ain't no fun. Neither is boredom with easier games. Shrug. What can you do?

Because coils has this thing called a WEEK LONG LOCKOUT.

I've seen one drop for WHM doing coils since the end of September. I've beaten the so-called hardest content for months now. If it wasn't for myth, I'd be doing turn 4 in my AK/DL gear.

Sounds fun.

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Because coils has this thing called a WEEK LONG LOCKOUT.

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Ah, there we go, the correct answer after 3 pages of rubbish.

Also, there isn't enough content to have all the BiS gear coming from end game events. Myths force people to play other content which would otherwise not be that relevant.

Imagine if all you could do for lvl90 gear was run coil once a week, wouldn't that be a heap of fun?

Wish people would think a bit more before making such vapid threads.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

Because we're playing Casual Fantasy XIV.

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Sad but true.

This can be debated till the cows come home (old irish saying) but the fact of the matter is SE need to make money and that entails making this game appeal to a broad range of players from casual to hardcore. Hardcore players can content themselves to taking down the EM primals and coil for their BiS gear while casuals can run dungeons and still get really good gear (good looking gear because that does matter to a lot of people) at the same time and perhaps dipping their foot into harder content eventually.

I has been running T1-T4 for almost 3 months already and got (actually saw) only one bard's piece.
6 rolls/week, 24 rolls/month, around 70 rolls in CoB for me atm.

I probably quit if there is no Myth items since I can't catch up to the luckier guys.

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Originally Posted by tOnni3

I has been running T1-T4 for almost 3 months already and got (actually saw) only one bard's piece.
6 rolls/week, 24 rolls/month, around 70 rolls in CoB for me atm.

I probably quit if there is no Myth items since I can't catch up to the luckier guys.

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I agree. Our bards have gotten only 2 drops in the same time span.

The rest are items they don't need. (eg allagan chest which I took)

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Originally Posted by Mazi

At first I was 100% hardest content deserves the best gear so of course I thought Allagan should beat out Myth but after doing Coil many many times and having the RNG gods spit in my face I realize that if Myth gear wasn't there then I would have 2 pieces of ilvl90 cause my luck has sucked THAT bad.

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

Because coils has this thing called a WEEK LONG LOCKOUT.

I've seen one drop for WHM doing coils since the end of September.

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Do people like you even think? At all? The idea here is that while doing your gear-less Coil runs you would be earning the highest level token, in this case Allagan Tomestones of Mythology. Incorporating the lockout into the mix would just involve making all 5 Turns of the Coil add up to the maximum number of Mythology allowed per week. Your gear-free runs would then add up to the Mythology gear you currently wear on your continued attempts.

This isn't freaking theoretical astrophysics, people.