[dev1075] Limit Breaks or Overdrive Mode

I like the idea and understand where u are comming from but u know u will always have 1 clown that will try to rain on the parade just add to ignor list and you should have some good feed back and ideas to add to what u are thinking

I wouldn't mind seeing some Race specific limit breaks as well provided they're not game breaking or overpowered compared to other races.

Limit breaks were usually tied to the character you were playing and not the role, though in many FFs the role was also tied to the character. I'm sure some will disagree on this though.

Great thread though, keep the suggestions coming :D

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

TP - a suplementary battle system that involves dealing and taking damage in order to build up a resource meter that is separate from MP in order to execute highly damaging attacks as well as special moves and skills.

Overdrive/Limit Breaks - a supplementary battle system that involves dealing and taking damage in order to build up a resource meter that is separate from MP in order to execute highly damaging attacks as well as special moves and skills .


Do you know what those two systems are?

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Lol.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Yes I do. Good job looking that up on the internet :)

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*facedesk*

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

LNC -
Limit Gain: taking melee damage.
Ability: Dragon Soul - Your melee attacks gain a slight stun effect, draining enemy stamina slightly when you hit.

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Lancer isnt a tank so if you set the limit gain like that, that would damage it as dd buff/debuff class.
As for suggestions for how they should gain limit.

Maybe through applying debuffs to monsters like speed/life surge, trammel, moonrise, twisting vice, call to arms etc

The OP have a nice Idea if it take a while to build up to max and not have someone spam the move 500time 1 battle then it a great Idea.

@Rentahamster getting TP is quick to get even if you slow it down you just going to make people not do anything for hours lol. It best to have other system like the OP saying and when you do WS that 2000tp you get more of the other Bar.

i love this idea sound better then two hour or 1 hour.

Common sense would dictate that certain job types would get overdrives or limit breaks that correspond to their party role. I am sure SE can figure out that much for themself.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

@Rentahamster getting TP is quick to get even if you slow it down you just going to make people not do anything for hours lol. It best to have other system like the OP saying and when you do WS that 2000tp you get more of the other Bar.

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Having both a TP and an Overdrive bar that serve redundant purposes doesn't bother you?

If it takes "hours" to accumulate anyway, what is the difference, functionally speaking, from the overdrive bar and a 2-hour cooldown skill? Players would always end up having to "farm overdrive" before a difficult boss battle or dungeon raid just to make it easier.

I don't think it should take hours. The duration should be about the length of a boss fight so that it can be used once per. The system is not redundant. The tp bar is filled and used constantly and the overdrive bar is not constantly used.

Rentahamster- you are the only one posting negative feedback on this post. Please post ideas to help with the idea. Don't just keep telling everybody that they're wrong. We want to build a stronger community that promotes growth and innovation. Just telling everybody that they are wrong results in no progress. Because I love this game I want to help it to succeed.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Having both a TP and an Overdrive bar that serve redundant purposes doesn't bother you?

If it takes "hours" to accumulate anyway, what is the difference, functionally speaking, from the overdrive bar and a 2-hour cooldown skill? Players would always end up having to "farm overdrive" before a difficult boss battle or dungeon raid just to make it easier.

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Just leave the forums please. Your input is useless.

Overdrive is a SPECIAL attack it needs to be supported by mechanics that REQUIRE it to be limited use. The use has to be regimented.

Awesome idea Clash. Don't let these herpa derpa newb trolls waste your time man, just ignore them.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Just leave the forums please. Your input is useless.

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lol you're too cute.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Awesome idea Clash. Don't let these herpa derpa newb trolls waste your time man, just ignore them.

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I never said I didn't like the idea. I'm trying to brainstorm a way to incorporate it into the game properly.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I never said I didn't like the idea. I'm trying to brainstorm a way to incorporate it into the game properly.

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Perhaps people would be more receptive if you suggest ideas on how to implement the system as opposed to how not to implement it. I think you'll have more success in this way. If we can brainstorm ideas on how to implement it then the devs can weed out the ones they do not like.

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Perhaps people would be more receptive if you suggest ideas on how to implement the system as opposed to how not to implement it.

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Didn't I do that when I suggested having Overdrives be moves that cost 5000TP?

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Rentahamster- you are the only one posting negative feedback on this post. Please post ideas to help with the idea. Don't just keep telling everybody that they're wrong. We want to build a stronger community that promotes growth and innovation. Just telling everybody that they are wrong results in no progress. Because I love this game I want to help it to succeed.

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I never said anyone was wrong. I'm adding comments that get people to think about how theoretical new additions ( such as limit breaks) would influence gameplay. I'm also not sure where you're getting the "negative" from. Like I noted earlier, I never said I didn't like the idea. In fact, I suggested a similar idea back in beta.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Didn't I do that when I suggested having Overdrives be moves that cost 5000TP?

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You have 13 posts on this thread and that is the only idea from you that's been suggested. The rest is either talking about how it would not work or other forms of irrelevant information. Can we please get back on topic. This is frustrating. It's no wonder that many good suggestions never become more than that. They die in their infancy because people want to argue about the minute details that we have no say over to begin with.


On Topic

***What did you guys think of my examples from several posts back? Do we like the idea of going into a 10 second mode or do we like the idea of doing an amazing skill?

Well, I am 100% for having Limits as completely seperate meters. As long as the time it takes to build it up is almost equal to the 2 hr abilities of FFXI. It would also be cool if you could intertwine it with the Battle Regimen system somehow.

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Originally Posted by Maxi_Irving

It would also be cool if you could intertwine it with the Battle Regimen system somehow.

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My linkshell and I were talking about that idea. It doesn't have to be the battle regimen system itself, but a way of chaining moves together to get that sense of teamwork. That would be a very good idea.

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

You have 13 posts on this thread and that is the only idea from you that's been suggested. The rest is either talking about how it would not work or other forms of irrelevant information.

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Read my posts again. I never outright stated that certain ideas flat out "would not work". I was raising issues about certain aspects of a limit-break system and what the implications that would be towards gameplay from a design-perspective and whether or not that would be acceptable. I don't think that the discussion pertaining to the implementation of a limit-break system and the ways it can affect balance and foster good gameplay and strategy is irrelevant.

If you think it's being negative just for the sake of taking a crap on your thread, then you misunderstand. I'm trying to help you refine your idea into a workable solution. The devs don't read Japanese so it's up to the CRs to sift through and pick ideas, translate them, and send it off to Japan. The more you can refine your idea into a concise pitch that cleanly explains how it works, the better.

All I can say is that this is a really a good idea and Im sure SE will implement something like this because its new and it would add a whole new element to the game.

I really like this idea as an addition to long fights, whether it be along with mini games, battle regimens, or whatever. An overdrive/finishing move/etc would add an element of excitement to battle.

+1 for this ...or actually make TP moves "shine" more.

It's sad that bringing up issues with suggestions makes you a troll. That is why these thread's die. People think every idea they have is perfect just the way it is. Learn to accept feedback. Blinding ignorning obvious points of conflict with suggestions won't get you anywhere.


On topic: Personally, I would like to see something like this in the game.

Keep up the positive posts guys. I'm confident we can get the devs to consider this concept. Every concept has flaws, but the fundamental idea is what I'm trying to push.



Here are clips of some of the older ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2xtggrMFWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnAFO...eature=related


*Imagine some of that with these graphics

I always liked freya's trance so i could imagine a dragoon/lancer ability/limitbreak/overdrive that threw the player into the air out of the monsters attack range for a period of time. And unlike super jump the player rains down multiple javelins down on the foe before plunging down for the final attack especially since i can find very few uses for ranged weapons so far. It would be nice to have a point of buying higher than bronze lol. And since all of the DOW have throwing weapons it wouldnt be out of the question for them to make use of throwing weapons as well as their main weapon during their limit breaks/overdrives either.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

I always liked freya's trance so i could imagine a dragoon/lancer ability/limitbreak/overdrive that threw the player into the air out of the monsters attack range for a period of time. And unlike super jump the player rains down multiple javelins down on the foe before plunging down for the final attack especially since i can find very few uses for ranged weapons so far. It would be nice to have a point of buying higher than bronze lol. And since all of the DOW have throwing weapons it wouldnt be out of the question for them to make use of throwing weapons as well as their main weapon during their limit breaks/overdrives either.

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Yeah everybody has a special ability that they loved. Your kind of enthusiasm is exactly what I feel this system would bring. I want people to remember these moves and how special they can be just like we remember those moves from over a decade ago.

I like this idea alot. Especially if they incorporated it into the new battle regimen system when that gets developed since they would be doing it from the ground up. How cool would that be? Limitbreak skillchains....aww yea.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Having both a TP and an Overdrive bar that serve redundant purposes doesn't bother you?

If it takes "hours" to accumulate anyway, what is the difference, functionally speaking, from the overdrive bar and a 2-hour cooldown skill? Players would always end up having to "farm overdrive" before a difficult boss battle or dungeon raid just to make it easier.

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ITs not the same thing maybe in your world it is but i think others understand perfectly. OP just add to ignor as you can se there is just one person that insist on being an a$$ and downing like 20+ others input on what is a nice ideal man no matter where you go there is always at least one kinda funny that way.

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Originally Posted by Karbine

I like this idea alot. Especially if they incorporated it into the new battle regimen system when that gets developed since they would be doing it from the ground up. How cool would that be? Limitbreak skillchains....aww yea.

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Yeah it would be awesome to have limit break skillchains. Hopefully we can get a community rep to bring the Limit Break/Overdrive Mode idea up to the developers. There seems to be a lot of positive feedback as well as excitement.

i would like as the OP says a limit break - overdrive system that only that job may use, if you combine that with tp would'nt be the same as the OP says, an abbility that deals 10 times more damage than a regular TP move like Cloud's limit break, Squall limit break, something that you could call kinda 2hr abbility, the only way i feel this system could work if you want to combine it with TP is to make it more powerful when you have full TP, so the ppl would wait the right time to use it more effectively, and the bar could be fill in a time radio (doing, receiving damage or healing) of 1 hr would be great specially if a dungeon content is added so you can only use it once in boss battles.

So that way, every job will have its own special taste, and will be important to upgrade yourself from a class to a certain job, and it could have certain levels for different limit break abbilities unlockable by ranking up and really, really hard quest on the respective job with cutscenes and all.

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Originally Posted by elreed

So that way, every job will have its own special taste, and will be important to upgrade yourself from a class to a certain job, and it could have certain levels for different limit break abbilities unlockable by ranking up and really, really hard quest on the respective job with cutscenes and all.

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I really like the idea of job exclusives and unlockable limit breaks. That is a very good idea. That would give versatility to each one and allow for individuality. It might get a bit complicated, but that is an idea that should definitely be taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

This system could not work with tp because that would mean that you would have to AA until max amount.

I really like the idea of job exclusives and unlockable limit breaks. That is a very good idea. That would give versatility to each one and allow for individuality. It might get a bit complicated, but that is an idea that should definitely be taken into consideration.

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i was just saying that if you wanted the system to be combined with TP the best way in my op would be that, but i like the idea of having that system separate from the TP bar, having its own bar and could be filled in 30 min-1 hr fight time taking in consideration the actions you do, if you dont attack or are afk the bar wouldnt keep filling up at all, and have every job its own limit break so when you most need it.

It could add certain flavor to the fight, everyone would be using skillchains/ Battle regimens to incapacitate the mob/boss before using that limit break in group to deal as much damage as possible.

Lol i got excited with the idea ClashBlades it would be a great thing to add to make the game more fun.

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Originally Posted by elreed

i was just saying that if you wanted the system to be combined with TP the best way in my op would be that, but i like the idea of having that system separate from the TP bar

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Yeah I edited my reply shortly after I put it up hehe.


The old sp system used to award us sp based on the actions that we did. While this was a terrible idea for sp, it fits in well with the limit break/overdrive mode idea. It would definitely need to be refined and more role specific.

Definitely bad idea. These things are meant for single player modes, not MMO modes that have stupid AIs no time limits, and sly gamers who will abuse it the first chance they get.

again the parallels with the old sp system is uncanny. you are rewarding players that the longer you drag a fight the better you are.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Definitely bad idea. These things are meant for single player modes, not MMO modes that have stupid AIs no time limits, and sly gamers who will abuse it the first chance they get.

again the parallels with the old sp system is uncanny. you are rewarding players that the longer you drag a fight the better you are.

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Not really much benefit to dragging on the fight. Rage timers will murder you once they do what they are supposed to. Dragging on fights won't be beneficial when you die because of it. Also the "stupid AI's" should be fixed. The current dev team is not responsible for the AI and they will fix it as such. Also there was a cap on the older sp system. Nobody I partied with dragged out the fight as long as possible. If anybody knows the old sp system it's me. The only thing the old sp system promoted was for people to take damage so that healers could heal.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Definitely bad idea. These things are meant for single player modes, not MMO modes that have stupid AIs no time limits, and sly gamers who will abuse it the first chance they get.

again the parallels with the old sp system is uncanny. you are rewarding players that the longer you drag a fight the better you are.

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why drag out a fight? If your limit makes killing easier, why would you make killing harder so you can make killing easier for 1 minute? Also if your limit guage is built on damage dealt, or damage recieved, etc, wouldnt it serve you better to kill many things and get more rewards sp/items whatever than to do nothing for a longer? I just dont see how it would be effecient to hold monsters for a skill, the skill would have to be insanely powered for it to be worth that much, and a skill that lasts one series of hits, or 30 sec or whatever aint usually worth gimping it up for 10-15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Physic

why drag out a fight? If your limit makes killing easier, why would you make killing harder so you can make killing easier for 1 minute? Also if your limit guage is built on damage dealt, or damage recieved, etc, wouldnt it serve you better to kill many things and get more rewards sp/items whatever than to do nothing for a longer? I just dont see how it would be effecient to hold monsters for a skill, the skill would have to be insanely powered for it to be worth that much, and a skill that lasts one series of hits, or 30 sec or whatever aint usually worth gimping it up for 10-15 minutes.

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Turtle defense. MMO is a world of stupid AI, they don't know if you're turtling or berserking, or strategically shitting in the can afking. In any case it's just another gimmick that's be stupidly abused because it's so easy to abuse something like that.

That's why 2hr ability was the "limit break" like skill they thought up with instead of stupidity of "building" super skills, you had one to start off.

The TP bar already serves the purpose for "building of power".

Single players are made without such considerations because they are not expected to go beyond double digit playtime. (at most you're going to fight every enemy a handful of times and every boss a few times).

This was what I had in my Mind.
As I am a Pug, mainly, I will use it as an example.

Pugilist:
Limit Gain:Receiving Damage/Dealing Damage/Evade (The amount could be split/adjusted so it gives a ratio of 3|3|4)

Ability: Raging Fists - When you hit with melee attacks, you gain a small amount of stamina. (Could be others, I just used Kor's for example.)

Initiation:Execute Simian Thrash[TP Use:3000] on enemy (Initiation is like Skills needed to trigger the Limit Break/Overdrive Skills, so maybe Chaos Thrust for Lancers, etc)

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I was also thinking of a way it could decrease, maybe like Dissidia 012's Assist Gauge depletion, but by far much slower, or maybe by Dying, 1/2[Varies, this is just an example] of the bar would deplete, this could also give people a reason to not die.
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Out of topic. I personally like the Stagger Bar from FFXIII. Maybe In XIV it could be by attacking an enemy[Depletes in time just like XIII, and gaining Stagger Points will be slower] with something they're weak[Physical attack/Mag/Debuff/etc] to or when they are weak[Great Buffalo Leg Incapacitate makes it easier to stagger or something of sort] but ofc, this is meant to only boost a little, unlike in FFXIII which has quick battle system. In order to not fill up space, this could go with the [Target Bar] when targetting something.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

While I agree with your sentiments that skills more akin to limit breaks and overdrives would be nice to have, I'm not sure if the proper course of action would be to add yet another resource management system into the battle system.

Couldn't you achieve the same results by introducing limit-break-like Weapon Skills that cost 3000 TP to use?


Additionally, if these "limit breaks" are too powerful, it would be very detrimental to game balance. I'm sure you remember how overpowered some of those limit breaks and overdrives were in their respective games.

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they could take so much longer to get full, much longer then 3000 tp, so they would be most used in nm fights.
That could speed them up (its not that they are difficult but can be boring long). And it could add some fun elements.
Also hate management would be of a greater importance. So people couldnt just go nuts but had to take care still. So that there wouldnt be an abuse of these skills.

I wouldnt mind a 2 hr ability either. Should be like 1,5 or 1 hr though. That is still not "spamming"

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Originally Posted by Anty

they could take so much longer to get full, much longer then 3000 tp, so they would be most used in nm fights.
That could speed them up (its not that they are difficult but can be boring long). And it could add some fun elements.
Also hate management would be of a greater importance. So people couldnt just go nuts but had to take care still. So that there wouldnt be an abuse of these skills.

I wouldnt mind a 2 hr ability either. Should be like 1,5 or 1 hr though. That is still not "spamming"

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Fancy over the hill animation wow-ness aside, it would be redundant. You are almost guaranteeing user abuse with no tangible recourse. It's dang hard to script a decent boss battle as it is in FF14.

Developers have to work within the bounds of MMO mentality, that falling over dead with fancy graphics is a single player mentality that has to be carefully moderated, when a game needs to last hundreds of hours to thousands of hours between content creation.

I get the "OMFG move" of badassing things...but that's not going to last more then half a dozen times feeling.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Fancy over the hill animation wow-ness aside, it would be redundant. You are almost guaranteeing user abuse with no tangible recourse. It's dang hard to script a decent boss battle as it is in FF14.

Developers have to work within the bounds of MMO mentality, that falling over dead with fancy graphics is a single player mentality that has to be carefully moderated, when a game needs to last hundreds of hours to thousands of hours between content creation.

I get the "OMFG move" of badassing things...but that's not going to last more then half a dozen times feeling.

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I dont know if you just wanna bitch this idea just to be sure the game doesnt have fun and involvement elements, i dont get it really.

What all this people are saying is that it would be great and fun to have actually a limit break/overdrive abbility different for every job, why would i like to be base build in what you do, same as old sp mode? well if you are the kind of person that do as much as you can in every fight, you should have something even better than skillchains, battleregimens and weapon skills that could help you in a fight, like the 2hrs abbilities that we had in FF XI, but this time would be awarded based on what you do, so if you start a dungeon, campaign, dynamis type when you get to be fighting the boss you have something else to help you in a fight and it could add a lot of elements into the fight that the game actually has but are not that much required like incapacitation of mobs.

As it is now you can incapacitate the mob if you want the drop, but if you have this limit break abbilities you could actually make a tactic goal in every boss/NM fight to incapacitate so the ppls in the party can make theyre damage limit break skills at that moment or if the party is loosing the fight you could have a limit break abbility for whm to heal everyone same as FF XI, i dk.

And as i said before, they could add new limit breaks for every job and those can be unlockable by ranking up and doing really hard chain of quest. They could add different effects to those limit breaks so you can make a tactic of wich of them will you be using, like elements affinities, debuffs, well i hope you get the idea of what this is about.


BTW I DONT CARE WHAT IT TAKES THE DEVS TO DO IT, THIS IS BUSSINESS FOR THEM, THEY HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO KNOWS ABOUT CODES AND ALL, AND THEY HAVE THEIR WORK HOURS TO THINK ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GONNA ADD THIS KINDA STUFF WITH PRO'S AND CON'S, THIS IS NOT A HOBBY FOR THEM SO LET THE WORRIES FOR THEM AND ADD ELEMENTS TO MAKE A BETTER GAME.

WITH THE POWER OF GREYSK.... THE TWELVE!!!! ... I HAAAAVE THE POWEEEEEER~! (TP gauge lv.5 <flashing yellow/whitish>)

Matsui let us know that this would be an idea that they will look into after the battle adjustments take place.