The fans will be here when it's all said and done

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Im a fan of the FF series and of this game, that said, I wont be around in the end if this game doesnt change drastically.

I want to play an MMO with a world that has a lot more to offer, rather than instance after instance.

If I wanted to sit around waiting to queue up for everything in game, I'd be playing an FPS, and please don't come at me saying how there's other stuff to do in game. This game revolves around DF and its instances, nothing else is relevant, and this is the problem, not lack of content.

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Well said. I couldnt agree with you more, but at the same time it is sad, really sad.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

The funny thing is..a Japanese article I read was talking about the DQ MMO and FFXIV. They said FFXIV is for the hardcore.

We are all doomed lol. D:

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I normally agree with you but on this: there is nothing hardcore about XIV it is all easy street. The open world is useless once you hit level cap. The only thing that has any type of challenge is coil, and of course odin and behemouth but that really isnt a challenge due to the amount of players there and that you are unable to see them normally.

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Originally Posted by Mags

Well I stand as is. We the fans will be here. This game will not go F2P ever. Mark my words now. We'll always have this game, and it'll be successful for SE. IS his a true statement? No, because it's opinion. But i'll endue. Will it go F2P? Time will tell, but the game will still endure. I am counted as one of the supporters. I'll be here.

Oh, it seems some of you want to hang on to my comment of "vocal minority" as a negative. I promise I didn't mean it as such. None the less, continue to use it as such. I only meant to say that a majority of the forum posters are not in any way the majority of the player base. That's all

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The fans stayed with 1.0 but we all know how that turned out and thats how 2.0 came to be so good luck with that.

I am a huge fan of the FF series, I played through FFXIV v1 from beginning to end and I stopped playing ARR a month ago along with several other friends from our FC.
To be honest, I don't miss the game but I miss playing with my FC. I am shocked at how bad the game turned out and the terrible decisions of Yoshida.
He is not a pro-MMO player at all and he has no clue what a "real" Final Fantasy is about, he's just a good businessman (lies included) who has no passion for video games.

All in all, and contrarily to what the title states and what SE seems to be thinking, fans won't stay around forever if the direction of the game doesn't change drastically.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

The fans stayed with 1.0 but we all know how that turned out and thats how 2.0 came to be so good luck with that.

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It'll be how it'll be. FFXIV 1.0 was successful for those enjoying it. SE just wanted more subs and thought to gain by adhering to a modern MMO model overall. I can't blame them, I didn't play 1.0 more than a month. I've played 2.0 for 3 plus months now including alpha/beta testing.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

I normally agree with you but on this: there is nothing hardcore about XIV it is all easy street. The open world is useless once you hit level cap. The only thing that has any type of challenge is coil, and of course odin and behemouth but that really isnt a challenge due to the amount of players there and that you are unable to see them normally.

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Just shows how out of touch you are with reality.

YOU may not find Titan HM hard, but MANY DO, not to mention Garuda HM not being a 'breeze' either. As Yoshi has said, and as shown in every MMO in existence more or less, those able to play the hardest content in the game are a SMALL MINORITY, like you, who proceed to cast condescending comments on the abilities of the majority; your comment here is just that, because the majority of players DO think the content you dismiss such as that I've mentioned are very challenging to the point of impossibility for many.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Just shows how out of touch you are with reality.

YOU may not find Titan HM hard, but MANY DO, not to mention Garuda HM not being a 'breeze' either. As Yoshi has said, and as shown in every MMO in existence more or less, those able to play the hardest content in the game are a SMALL MINORITY

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So what you're saying is...ARR is a doomed MMO?

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Just shows how out of touch you are with reality...

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The "majority" that think Garuda/Titan HM are challenging have to rely on pick up groups most likely. A good way to start eliminating the "impossibility" of Garuda/Titan HM is finding a FC or a linkshell and build up a static group.

That being said you could consider myself a fan of the Final Fantasy franchise, however I am not blind and don't see the issues the game has. The endgame crowd with Coil cleared will twiddle their thumbs, waiting for the Coil reset, even in 2.1. Backwards progression is bad, so is stating that you can use the new instances to farm vanity gear when there is no vanity slots being released in 2.1. Also, assuming the boosted dungeon xp will make Fates obsolete the open world will just die completely except for some underground mining bots etc.

I want this game to be good/succeed/worth our time, don't get me wrong. But certain things definitely need to change.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Just shows how out of touch you are with reality.

YOU may not find Titan HM hard, but MANY DO, not to mention Garuda HM not being a 'breeze' either. As Yoshi has said, and as shown in every MMO in existence more or less, those able to play the hardest content in the game are a SMALL MINORITY, like you, who proceed to cast condescending comments on the abilities of the majority; your comment here is just that, because the majority of players DO think the content you dismiss such as that I've mentioned are very challenging to the point of impossibility for many.

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Neither garuda or titan are hard. they are easy, if players cant learn the pattern than it a problem they have. There is nothing hard in this game other than coil. Yoshi isnt happy that everyone and there moms have a relic, so that shows you right there it isnt hard. This game is easy street, you can disagree all you want but it is the truth. The best part about patch 2.1 is the extreme primals and if they are as challenging as ifrit extreme in 1.0 was I am going to be smiling from ear to ear.

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Originally Posted by Mags

It'll be how it'll be. FFXIV 1.0 was successful for those enjoying it. SE just wanted more subs and thought to gain by adhering to a modern MMO model overall. I can't blame them, I didn't play 1.0 more than a month. I've played 2.0 for 3 plus months now including alpha/beta testing.

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It wont be successful as you say if players keep leaving. Dont fool yourself players are leaving and they will continue to do so as long as this game remains stagnant. If there is nothing dynamic about the open world than it is stagnant and we all know that once you explore everyting once you cap your jobs on fates that the open world has no use. Dungeons are stagnant as well not to mention they are boring, they are always the same never change there is nothing dynamic about them either. Basicly 2.0 is a cash grab nothing more nothing less, the world should feel alive but it dosent and thats the truth, dont be blinded and open your eyes to the truth.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

It wont be successful as you say if players keep leaving. Dont fool yourself players are leaving and they will continue to do so as long as this game remains stagnant. If there is nothing dynamic about the open world than it is stagnant and we all know that once you explore everyting once you cap your jobs on fates that the open world has no use. Dungeons are stagnant as well not to mention they are boring, they are always the same never change there is nothing dynamic about them either. Basicly 2.0 is a cash grab nothing more nothing less, the world should feel alive but it dosent and thats the truth, dont be blinded and open your eyes to the truth.

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LOL the TRUTH....too funny!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

It wont be successful as you say if players keep leaving. Dont fool yourself players are leaving and they will continue to do so as long as this game remains stagnant. If there is nothing dynamic about the open world than it is stagnant and we all know that once you explore everyting once you cap your jobs on fates that the open world has no use. Dungeons are stagnant as well not to mention they are boring, they are always the same never change there is nothing dynamic about them either. Basicly 2.0 is a cash grab nothing more nothing less, the world should feel alive but it dosent and thats the truth, dont be blinded and open your eyes to the truth.

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With crafting and leveling being so easy to reach max, I'm just wondering how the population will look like once most players have leveled all the classes they want to level to max.

How do you make money when everyone has multi level 50 crafts?

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Originally Posted by Doo

With crafting and leveling being so easy to reach max, I'm just wondering how the population will look like once most players have leveled all the classes they want to level to max.

How do you make money when everyone has multi level 50 crafts?

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Thats a very good point and to this day even I dont have the answer to that.

It's far too soon to be labeling this game as a success or a failure. The OP is right in that, in the end, there are always going to be fans around. Whether they have enough fans to sustain the game on a subscription model (didn't Yoshi say it's either subscription or nothing somewhere?) is a different story. People are leaving for various reasons, that's the life of pretty much all beginning MMOs post-WoW. The real test will be after a few (not just one) major patches to see if they're able to keep/draw enough people back to sustain subscription play.

I wouldn't say people complaining, or saying they're leaving, are the vocal minority. Anyone using the forums is part of the vocal minority. Whether that be for negative or positive feedback. So using the forums itself is the vocal minority part, not the part where the person is being negative or positive. I've seen plenty of people complain about something in game, be it latency (most say lag), being bored, fate grinding, myth grinding, or whatever. Most people don't do anything to provide feedback, short of maybe an exit survey.

[QUOTE=Sunarie;1619771] snip

You make a good point. Now in regards to survey's maybe they need to do a detail survey every 3 months. When doing surveys they need to be specific as possible and dont be vague like they did with the 1.0 surveys.

2.1 will give a good idea regarding who will stay and what the population will be like for the next few months :D

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

I normally agree with you but on this: there is nothing hardcore about XIV it is all easy street. The open world is useless once you hit level cap. The only thing that has any type of challenge is coil, and of course odin and behemouth but that really isnt a challenge due to the amount of players there and that you are unable to see them normally.

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Oh yes that was my whole point...haha I do not find FFXIV hardcore at all. I fail at sarcasm ; ;

I completely agree with you. Yeah Maxthunder, you and me are usually on the same page ^^

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

It wont be successful as you say if players keep leaving. Dont fool yourself players are leaving and they will continue to do so as long as this game remains stagnant. If there is nothing dynamic about the open world than it is stagnant and we all know that once you explore everyting once you cap your jobs on fates that the open world has no use. Dungeons are stagnant as well not to mention they are boring, they are always the same never change there is nothing dynamic about them either. Basicly 2.0 is a cash grab nothing more nothing less, the world should feel alive but it dosent and thats the truth, dont be blinded and open your eyes to the truth.

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Basically yup. There have been no dev comments on end game challenging, real actual hardcore open world content...which this game is lacking. Its like okay Yoshida, we get it everything is instanced...can we have some open world stuff to balance it out please? Is that too much to ask? ; ; Can we have something like Fraction Leves back or maybe open world group force pop NM/bosses? Can we have something like FF12 hunts? Not this carebear easy mode solo stuff ; ;

Now...I don't want this game to fail but I am not going to blindly defend it and say its so much fun and there is so much to do!! It is going in an OK direction...but the devs really need to open their eyes to what is missing and what players are asking for. Like I keep saying though...gonna give it a year or so and see what happens. XD

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

It wont be successful as you say if players keep leaving. Dont fool yourself players are leaving and they will continue to do so as long as this game remains stagnant.

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Thus I said in my OP.. the fans will be here when it's all said and done. I never said it'll be enough for SE to keep the game going. However I am willing to bet you anything, that once this game launches a couple of expansions the content will be coming out our rears. I will not say this game is a failure now when it's less than 6 months old.

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Originally Posted by Mags

Thus I said in my OP.. the fans will be here when it's all said and done. I never said it'll be enough for SE to keep the game going. However I am willing to bet you anything, that once this game launches a couple of expansions the content will be coming out our rears. I will not say this game is a failure now when it's less than 6 months old.

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I think this depends on how much they can push out in those 3 month periods. Other MMO's release small contant updates/additions/balances/etc inbetween big patches, so it eases things on the player, whereas ARR likes to pull it all into one shot. My worry is if patches don't add enough, then even the fans will get bored and eventually consider leaving. If they continue on this slow crawl, then I don't see content lasting past the first few weeks of each major patch.

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Originally Posted by Mags

But overall be rest assured that there are those that will be here and be long term community members and leaders.

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Hope you have a lot of Forum games to fill that gap of a job grind.

In honest I had high hopes for this game, I mean FF had hit bottom when 13 came out, Figured it couldnt get worse, as it stands now Im hoping pvp and Extreme's at least bring back some MMO "FEEL", and less "FATE to FATE feel.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Now...I don't want this game to fail but I am not going to blindly defend it and say its so much fun and there is so much to do!! It is going in an OK direction...but the devs really need to open their eyes to what is missing and what players are asking for. Like I keep saying though...gonna give it a year or so and see what happens. XD

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Don't know what is giving you any glimmer of hope that the devs are going to change the framework of this within a year. While in not so many words, this game has always been touted as a game for casual players with some hardcore elements. FATEs are this game's version of open world content. If you haven't seen past this throughout beta up until now...well, enjoy giving SE that subscription for the next year. And while my views may sound negative, I just want to follow this up with I actually enjoy the game for what it is.

Monday? Myth reset.

"Here we go again.. time to bounce between 2 dungeons for a few hours."

"Damn another week of waiting to get a myth piece..."

"Let's cap Philos n stuff maybe for your other Jobs?"

"Wonder if the Coil static will have a spot open up this week."

"Wonder if I can organize a competent Coil PUG this week."

"Wonder if I'll get to do Coil this week."

"Should I waste the time leveling another class.. again?"

"Let's try WP without a healer."

"Well flub-a-dub I guess Netflix and gathering it is then."

edit: I really like Final Fantasy games - but this happens to me either on Monday; or my game time pans out this way by Wednesday. I enjoy playing but I think "stale" is a fair word to label FFXIV with at the moment. I like making alt characters just to mess around on at this point. I get to level 10~30 then delete it because... well frankly it's boring to continue, and boring to grind an endgame I've already been grinding at.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Monday? Myth reset.

"Here we go again.. time to bounce between 2 dungeons for a few hours."

"Damn another week of waiting to get a myth piece..."

"Let's cap Philos n stuff maybe for your other Jobs?"

"Wonder if the Coil static will have a spot open up this week."

"Wonder if I can organize a competent Coil PUG this week."

"Wonder if I'll get to do Coil this week."

"Should I waste the time leveling another class.. again?"

"Let's try WP without a healer."

"Well flub-a-dub I guess Netflix and gathering it is then."

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Your way more active than I am I just do coil then done. at 4 hours a month, the game is definitely not meeting the MMO standard of 15 bucks a month. (if you have the 14.99 plan) per hour / $$

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Your way more active than I am I just do coil then done. at 4 hours a month, the game is definitely not meeting the MMO standard of 15 bucks a month. (if you have the 14.99 plan) per hour / $$

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Same here, I do Coil 1-5 then don't bother with the game until next Monday.

Can someone fill me in on what hardcore means today? Meaning keeps changing every day I read these forums.

It seems like since BG beat Coil, uploaded a video and Twister got nerfed, a lot of people turned into a hardcore, "too good for this game" type.

Before that, Twintania was bugged and SE was making stuff unbeatable to make people keep paying.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Can someone fill me in on what hardcore means today? Meaning keeps changing every day I read these forums.

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I've always felt that hardcore meant the way you spent your time, not how much you spend. I know people who chat for 8 hours, walk around town or just leisure play, but then people who raid for 2 hours straight full preparation with coms. Guess which one is hardcore?

The idea that you have to play x amount of time to be hardcore is silly. I know people who play less then I do but have cleared turn 5, and I (used) to play 5-7 hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Arale

I've always felt that hardcore meant the way you spent your time, not how much you spend. I know people who chat for 8 hours, walk around town or just leisure play, but then people who raid for 2 hours straight full preparation with coms. Guess which one is hardcore?

The idea that you have to play x amount of time to be hardcore is silly. I know people who play less then I do but have cleared turn 5, and I (used) to play 5-7 hours a day.

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This is what I always thought hardcore meant as well. I mean, I play like 6 hrs a day and most of the time most of the weekends and I don't consider myself hardcore, but sometimes I do hardcore stuff like grind fates for 10 hrs straight(once in a blue moon), or join Titan DF for a few hours just to practice the fight etc etc. That's some hardcore ****. LOL

Final Fantasy XIV is made for people who work 8+hrs a day and only have 2hrs a night at most to play not or the content locust that play 8+hrs and then complain about lack of content developer's would go bankrupt if they catered to that crowd. I've been playing for 3 months and I got my Relic a few weeks ago and only just this weekend just completed Coil Turn 1 on my only lvl 50 Summoner so when people come on complaining about lack of content this early after release I don't understand where there coming form. Maybe after 6 months of playing an MMO and there is no substantial updates and no news on future updates people have the right to complain but now most complaints are baseless.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Final Fantasy XIV is made for people who work 8+hrs a day and only have 2hrs a night at most to play not or the content locust that play 8+hrs and then complain about lack of content.

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If this game was catering to suit you, then it wont last long at all........

Think about it. The fact it took you 3 month to get relic and do coil T1. That mean, you dont know how to effectively lv up, dont know how to effectively gears up, and you shouldnt use yourself as an example of the standard 2 hour play. In 2 hour per day and with my know how, i can get to where you are with a new character in about 2week.

This game is serverely lacking in contents. Coil/myth cap, there is nothing else to do beside those 2. Even GW2 1st release has more content and things to do end game than FF14.

I stopped reading after I saw you refered to the imaginary "vocal minority" everyone loves to pin everything on when someone disagrees with them.

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Originally Posted by Dranosi

If this game was catering to suit you, then it wont last long at all........

Think about it. The fact it took you 3 month to get relic and do coil T1. That mean, you dont know how to effectively lv up, dont know how to effectively gears up, and you shouldnt use yourself as an example of the standard 2 hour play. In 2 hour per day and with my know how, i can get to where you are with a new character in about 2week.

This game is serverely lacking in contents. Coil/myth cap, there is nothing else to do beside those 2. Even GW2 1st release has more content and things to do end game than FF14.

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Or maybe he does know how to do all of that, but spends time reading all of the dialogue, dabbling in other classes, helping out FC mates, etc. He is an example of the normal person who plays 2 hours per day, yes. It's taken me a month to get to level 39. I know how to do everything, but I'm not trying to rush to endgame. I'm enjoying everything as it happens and messing around with the game. You can't complain the game is lacking content when you just skip half of it.

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Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

Or maybe he does know how to do all of that, but spends time reading all of the dialogue, dabbling in other classes, helping out FC mates, etc. He is an example of the normal person who plays 2 hours per day, yes. It's taken me a month to get to level 39. I know how to do everything, but I'm not trying to rush to endgame. I'm enjoying everything as it happens and messing around with the game. You can't complain the game is lacking content when you just skip half of it.

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Rushing to end game, and taking a month to almost hit level 40 are two completely different things. Getting to 50 in under a month is not rushing. Not everyone is interested in leveling up every job over and over again, or crafting, or going to find the best vista the game has to offer. This game has been out for almost four months now, it's time to stop calling people running coil rushers.

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Im a fan of the FF series and of this game, that said, I wont be around in the end if this game doesnt change drastically.

I want to play an MMO with a world that has a lot more to offer, rather than instance after instance.

If I wanted to sit around waiting to queue up for everything in game, I'd be playing an FPS, and please don't come at me saying how there's other stuff to do in game. This game revolves around DF and its instances, nothing else is relevant, and this is the problem, not lack of content.

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Agree. Grinding fates on my soon to be 5th 50 is B O R I N G. Doing the same dungeons the 500th time to get darklight for that character is going to be B O R I N G. The fact that there is no reason for my FC to raid Crystal tower since we cant go together Is what's making all my friends quit the game. =(

Excellent post, OP, and I agree completely on who stays with a game and who goes. I never played a game more than a couple months if I was not hooked to its world, characters and story. And I make friends with like minded people of course. Successful games manage to keep it all fresh with patches and expansions.

I'm not calling people running coil rushers, I'm calling someone who takes their main job to 50 and finishes most of the end game in two weeks at only two hours a day a rusher. There's a difference. You're right, hitting 50 in under a month isn't rushing. If I were to dedicate about 3-4 hours a night, I could probably do it pretty easily. I'm also not saying he has to try everything (although that's kind of the defining thing for this game, the fact that you can run every class with one character), I'm saying he can't be insulting someone for not rushing through the main storyline and say that they aren't the average player and don't know how to play. They are the average player. They want to see the story, enjoy what's unique about MMOs, and just enjoy the game. That doesn't mean they don't know how to go faster, they just don't want to.

I was also arguing about complaining that there isn't content when he clearly ran through it all. The content is there, it's up to you whether you enjoy it or not.

This is to whilke btw.

I'm a filthy casual, and I've come to ruin your game!

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Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

I'm not calling people running coil rushers, I'm calling someone who takes their main job to 50 and finishes most of the end game in two weeks at only two hours a day a rusher. There's a difference. You're right, hitting 50 in under a month isn't rushing. If I were to dedicate about 3-4 hours a night, I could probably do it pretty easily. I'm also not saying he has to try everything (although that's kind of the defining thing for this game, the fact that you can run every class with one character), I'm saying he can't be insulting someone for not rushing through the main storyline and say that they aren't the average player and don't know how to play. They are the average player. They want to see the story, enjoy what's unique about MMOs, and just enjoy the game. That doesn't mean they don't know how to go faster, they just don't want to.

I was also arguing about complaining that there isn't content when he clearly ran through it all. The content is there, it's up to you whether you enjoy it or not.

This is to whilke btw.

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Getting to 50 in two weeks is not rushing. I don't know what game you're playing, but you can get you first character to 50 by doing the main+side quests (and reading all the text) in two weeks. This game is designed to be at 50, I don't know why they don't just give you a lvl 50 job to start.

Every MMO lets you run every class if you want, and some people do, and some people don't. Not everyone is going to level up every base class and job. That is not content.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I stopped reading after I saw you refered to the imaginary "vocal minority" everyone loves to pin everything on when someone disagrees with them.

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That always makes me laugh too. It's like ''you're wrong, this games fine!" then later they discover how many accounts the game has registered vs how many subs are registered. That niggling curiosity clicks in their heads and they go...so wait, where are those people?

Vocal minority of what was a silent majority is more like it. Yeahhh.....they quit. xD

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Originally Posted by whilke

Every MMO lets you run every class if you want, and some people do, and some people don't. Not everyone is going to level up every base class and job. That is not content.

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That's entirely subjective. For some people "replaying" the game by leveling a new class is content and doing any endgame dungeon/raid for the 100th time just for loot isn't (more so here that every class/job has a different story and you can play them all with the same character), while for others it's the opposite. Both stances are valid.