LOL@ Yoshi P's response to why Coil raiders should do Crystal Tower

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

Oh well.
They made coil the end all be all of gear.
But...we already knew CT for instance, was going to go backwards to begin with since it was suppose to be played before Coil.

I'm doing CT for fun...like others should be doing but I guess people don't care about that nowadays.
Just being the most bestest geared up person in all the lands. I'm glad I'm not like that lol.

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It's not fun if myself or my FC members aren't getting better gear from it to make our main objective easier; clearing coil. This seems like a colossal waste of time outside of equipping a job you "might" play later.

You could always do CT for...you know...the enjoyment of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't think we have any chance to win items for alt.jobs by "Greed" in a 24 man raid like that.

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I recall in Rainheart's translation that each group of 8 will get their own chest.

This was mostly stuff that was supposed to be in 2.0 but wasn't ready yet. It's being added to bring the current game to its intended release form with more diverse end game content and coil being the pinnacle of that. Coil was intended to be more difficult, but they screwed up. However, they don't have plans to go back and nerf it for fear of angering those who don't want their progress reset. So you'll just have to wait for 2.2 which brings the next stages of coil, new gear and hopefully content that will be as difficult as originally intended.

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Originally Posted by Amocoru

It's not fun if myself or my FC members aren't getting better gear from it to make our main objective easier; clearing coil. This seems like a colossal waste of time outside of equipping a job you "might" play later.

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Because heaven forbid you get some i80 gear for your main to make coil easier.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

This was mostly stuff that was supposed to be in 2.0 but wasn't ready yet. It's being added to bring the current game to its intended release form with more diverse end game content and coil being the pinnacle of that. Coil was intended to be more difficult, but they screwed up. However, they don't have plans to go back and nerf it for fear of angering those who don't want their progress reset. So you'll just have to wait for 2.2 which brings the next stages of coil, new gear and hopefully content that will be as difficult as originally intended.

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let's not forget the people who ACTUALLY beated coil (aka killed twintania) it's still very very few. Farming coil up to 4° floor it's hardly the meaning of "beated". In this, they have all they time they want to beat it and finally move to the next tier.

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Originally Posted by Mitternacht

Wow, I must have imagined all those posts complaining about having to do AK over and over.

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If the new dungeons are as bland and straightforward as WP/AK nothing will change. Considering how a lot of people already outgear them (Yes unlike popular believe there are plenty of people that at least got largely DL) a lot of the mechanics probably can already be skipped so in the end it's just going to be the same "So, what's fastest?" story. Blame SE for making their endgame dungeons horribly bland from what we've seen so far.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

You could always do CT for...you know...the enjoyment of doing it.

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Except that you either have to queue up over and over to try and get 3 FC/LS/Friend parties in there or have to wait for 2 random parties which may or may not always be equally enjoyable. Especially when it involves waiting around for ages because your organised party can clear the "solo" part of CT way faster than the other parties. Also, same story as the other instances, designed for i55-60ish gear. It's just going to be more roflstomping.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Except that you either have to queue up over and over to try and get 3 FC/LS/Friend parties in there or have to wait for 2 random parties which may or may not always be equally enjoyable. Especially when it involves waiting around for ages because your organised party can clear the "solo" part of CT way faster than the other parties. Also, same story as the other instances, designed for i55-60ish gear. It's just going to be more roflstomping.

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I don't know if it's "designed" for ilvl 55-60 gear. That's just going to be the minimum requirement. So at bare minimum you don't get fresh 50s with AF and white jewelry in the run. You ever run a new computer game on a system that just barely meets minimum specs? It's not pretty. I'd imagine if you get extraordinarily unlucky and get grouped into a DF run completely full of members that barely clear the ilvl 55 prereq, it will probably be just as rough.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

CT and extreme primals drop higher gear of darklight
@topic:
Btw, as lame it could be, that's really the only way to respond to that question: there's really no other reason to do CT for the main job if you can beat binding coil, while instead there are plenty of reasons doing it for second jobs. So, this is good for everyone who complained until yesterday they couldn't gear the second job, and that's really nothing to complain since we know forever CT is meant to be done pre-coil.
Oh wait, they do. Let me guess, what they ment with "i can't gear my second job", was instead "i can't gear my second job with free ilvl 90 af like my main". I got it right ?

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I could never understand the "I can't gear my second job" crowd since this stuff can be beaten with some of this DL gear sans some classes.

Op so much fail in your analysis of his reply that it's sad. You do CT because it's content the armor is something on the side, that can be used at a further time by vanity, or used at current for your other none main classes. You love the cake, hate the topping, so you bash the whole thing rather then eating the cake and ignoring the topping. If you don't need armor pass it, other do. Am sick and tired of the carrot and stick incentives, and people's primitive way of understanding things. Carrot and stick is dead, do something because you like doing it, not because of a reward... the reward will not give you happiness.

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

"You’ll be able to obtain equipment that can then be used with the “vanity” (name TBD) system that we will be implementing later, and you can also obtain equipment for your alternate classes and jobs."

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And this guy is the lead designer!? SRSLY SE?! RLY?!

Huge fucking fail.

About time to screw this game.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I don't know if it's "designed" for ilvl 55-60 gear. That's just going to be the minimum requirement. So at bare minimum you don't get fresh 50s with AF and white jewelry in the run. You ever run a new computer game on a system that just barely meets minimum specs? It's not pretty. I'd imagine if you get extraordinarily unlucky and get grouped into a DF run completely full of members that barely clear the ilvl 55 prereq, it will probably be just as rough.

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Taking this from the screencap thread, which is a recap off the live letter.

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The new Pharos Sirius dungeon is the big tower near the Aleport with a large crystal stuck inside it. It’s a 4-men dungeon. That’s the plan to all dungeons that will be added outside of the endgame, to allow casual players to do them easily. It’ll drop level 60 gear and you should be able to do it with artifact armor. It will also include a classic Final Fantasy boss, that won’t be revealed today.

Haukke Manor and Copperbell Mines are going to get hard modes. Some routes will be different, and the bosses and their mechanics will also be completely changed for the hard mode. Clearing normal mode will be necessary to access them. They’ll feature a story where something happened in the dungeons and the player will be requested to go back and address the problem. They will drop level 60 items.

At this stage, Crystal Tower was showcased with a live demo. Item level necessary for the Crystal Tower should be pretty much the same as Amdapoor Keep. Chests will be separate for each party so every party will get its own. They will contain level 80 items. The Binding Coil of Bahamut has stronger items, but items dropped from the Crystal Tower will be usable with the vanity slot coming in 2.2.

Good King Moggle Mog XII that will be implemented in 2.1 is similar in difficulty to Garuda Hard Mode, but a little harder. There will be eight moogles to fight and each one will have his own job. The fight will have both a easy and a hard mode.

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Doesn't sound like anything in there will be harder than AK. Sure people that don't know how to play can mess it up, but that hardly makes for an argument imo (aside from CT since you can only DF that).

I'm about to start leveling Paladin. Its gonna be great to have all these options at lv50. Looking forward to doing CT on my Paladin. I'm not sure why you would not want to play alt classes in a game like this, but whatever. Play how you want. Surely, you aren't expecting forward progression upgrades for your main class with every patch though, are you?

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

"You’ll be able to obtain equipment that can then be used with the “vanity” (name TBD) system that we will be implementing later, and you can also obtain equipment for your alternate classes and jobs."

So we should do it for a feature that isn't even implemented yet. And for jobs we aren't playing.

Yay!!!!!

Let's see what else...Extreme Primals that drop ilvl 90 weapons which we already have. Or hard-mode dungeons that give the same ilvl gear and tokens as a faster/easier Wanderer's Palace run.

Is there any point to do any of the content in 2.1, other than for a vanity system that won't be implemented until the next patch? Wtf are we even supposed to do after we transmog our characters?

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I'm in Myth/Allagan and like a very few 70 pieces(lodestone won't probably show it I usually logout in lightning gear) plus I do coil regularly. I still wanna do CT and extreme mode. Speak for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

And in most rpgs the better the gear you get the more powerful you become, honestly haven't heard of an rpg outside of GW where there is not vertical progression as you progress throughout the game. Haven't even heard of an mmo other than GW or ff11(pre Abyssea, so like 4-5 years ago?) that didn't have a vertical progression either.

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Eve Online also have very limited vertical progression. You can hop into a super-decked out battleship and get your face bashed in by a few guys in cruisers.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Amazing how many people who are complaining about this now are the same who were complaining that the current system doesn't allow you to gear multiple classes effectively.

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THIS!!! A thousand times this! So many people complaining about not being able to gear their alts. Yoshi specifically states "You can gear your alts" and NO ONE is happy ><

We ALL were told that Crystal Tower was delayed. We ALL were told that Crystal Tower was lower level content than Coil. Yet people are now complaining about this. We knew this information already, how can you suddenly be shocked and appalled. Sheesh.

And I really have a hard time understanding the rage that some people exhibit when it comes to not having a vanity system yet. That isn't even on my radar as something I care that much about.

ITT: People going apeshit because Crystal Tower is exactly what it was described to be well before the game even launched.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Doesn't sound like anything in there will be harder than AK. Sure people that don't know how to play can mess it up, but that hardly makes for an argument imo (aside from CT since you can only DF that).

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Perhaps, but considering it's dropping ilvl 80 gear I'm sort of expecting it to be harder than AK. Considering it's also supposed to be the progression step between DL and coil I would be surprised if it isn't.

I guess we'll see. However it will probably be easier than coil, so if you've got that on farm I guess it will probably seem relatively easy to you anyway.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

And I really have a hard time understanding the rage that some people exhibit when it comes to not having a vanity system yet. That isn't even on my radar as something I care that much about.

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I think it depends on your class most likely. On my alt drg job I would rather have the AF armor visible over the look of DL armor and especially the ugly as sin AK set that I first used when I got it to 50.

CT would have made a lot more sense if the devs weren't handing out free i90 every 2-3 weeks. Tomestones of Mythology and their methods of acquisition along with the increased cap in 2.1 is whats going to make CT largely irrelevant, not the fact that its i80 gear and a stepping stone between Darklight and Binding Coil instead of i100 after coil.

Sure, its true you can gear an alt class for BC with CT gear, but its not like you can take that alt class into BC after you've cleared it on your main with your static anyways.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Doesn't sound like anything in there will be harder than AK. Sure people that don't know how to play can mess it up, but that hardly makes for an argument imo (aside from CT since you can only DF that).

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Inferring that CT will be about the same as AK because it has an item level 55 requirement is fairly erroneous given that it would take a mix of WP/AK/DL or crafted gear to hit that average. They make no statement of an item level minimum for AK, Pharos, HM Copperbell, or HM Manor - but since Pharos is tuned for people in AF then it's probably an expected average item level of 46-49 for all of those instances.

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

"You’ll be able to obtain equipment that can then be used with the “vanity” (name TBD) system that we will be implementing later, and you can also obtain equipment for your alternate classes and jobs."

So we should do it for a feature that isn't even implemented yet. And for jobs we aren't playing.

Yay!!!!!

Let's see what else...Extreme Primals that drop ilvl 90 weapons which we already have. Or hard-mode dungeons that give the same ilvl gear and tokens as a faster/easier Wanderer's Palace run.

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1) Gearing up alternate classes/jobs is a very valid reason.
2) Vanity is not as valid but will be relevant later
3) Extreme primals- YOU might have lv90 weapons already, but most people don't. Remember, endgame players are a minority, as much as you'd like to think you're not.
4) Horizontal content growth isn't a bad thing. We could use more gear variety. Again, not everyone is a hardcore player decked out in lv90 gear for multiple jobs.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't think we have any chance to win items for alt.jobs by "Greed" in a 24 man raid like that.

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Apparently you forgot that each 8 man gets its own chest. It's cool, not everyone has good reading comprehension, but I'm sure you just forgot.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

3) Extreme primals- YOU might have lv90 weapons already, but most people don't. Remember, endgame players are a minority, as much as you'd like to think you're not.

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I don't know how it is on your server but when I go to RT, most people there have relics and most of those relics are glowing.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

3) Extreme primals- YOU might have lv90 weapons already, but most people don't. Remember, endgame players are a minority, as much as you'd like to think you're not.

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Why are people overlooking this, a grand total of about a handful of people can do coil 1-5 in one after noon, those people are a minority, and do not account for even 1% of population.

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@zdub303 relic+1 takes all of 3 weeks of capping mythos that is it, you can be +1 relic with out even unlocking coil... glowing relic means nothing....

While endgame raiders aren't as important as they think, I think people also way overestimate how hard Coil is. If not for the rather vicious RNG when it comes to Coil drops, you really have no reason to do anything else from a gear progression point of view if you can clear at least the first 2 turns in Coil (which can be done in a PUG). Now, since the RNG is indeed rather vicious you need some other gear to increase your chances of actually getting something useful, but to justify content on a nasty RNG is just a bad idea. If it's any other game with a token drop system, you can simply buy mythology gear for the turn 4/5 and then win whatever tokens from turn 1/2 that corresponds to your current drops, and you'd be effectively done with the game. Maybe people can argue about BiS but if all your gear is ilvl 90 it's likely good enough.

I can understand about seeing the positives about this whole...situation or whatever, but defending it and acting like there is absolutely nothing wrong with it will hurt the game more then help it, yanno? Mor Dhona on my server is getting more and more empty. The towns are gettin more and more empty. All I've seen and heard today is of all these end game focused FC quitting ; ;

This game is special in the sense that it has many people who have been playing since 2010 and maxed out all jobs (Even non legacy people have by now lol) and want more to do then T1-5 on Monday and be bored ; ; People want to improve their main jobs and something to do..is that really so horrible of them? Is it really THAT bad that people who have stuck with this game since 2010 are bored waiting and want something else to do end game that benefits their main job?

I mean, think about it..even with CT and 2.1..we are still limited to 8 man content. They kept telling us that its 24 man raid and been saying that since 2012 when they announced it. People that have to sit out for coil each week (in my FC anyway) or take turns or whatever...now they once again will get left out and not get to play with the big FC group. I am usually a really, really positive person...but I am sorry this patch, or..the live letter rather is a huge disappointment to me.

As for coil...I don't see it changing anytime soon. It's 1.0 all over again. Except now instead of horrible drop rates we have to deal with SE telling us how many times we can do it per week -_- It is the only end game content so they are gonna make it as limited as they can. Can't really blame them...it sucks but that is how its gonna be until we get some real content...hopefully within the next year or so.

Heh...gonna give this game like a year or so and if it doesn't have anything solid that is prolly when I'll throw in the towel ; ;

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Gear gear gear! That's all everyone thinks about! Not about the Actual content!

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New to MMOs?

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I can understand about seeing the positives about this whole...situation or whatever, but defending it and acting like there is absolutely nothing wrong with it will hurt the game more then help it, yanno? Mor Dhona on my server is getting more and more empty. The towns are gettin more and more empty. All I've seen and heard today is of all these end game focused FC quitting ; ;

This game is special in the sense that it has many people who have been playing since 2010 and maxed out all jobs (Even non legacy people have by now lol) and want more to do then T1-5 on Monday and be bored ; ; People want to improve their main jobs and something to do..is that really so horrible of them? Is it really THAT bad that people who have stuck with this game since 2010 are bored waiting and want something else to do end game that benefits their main job?

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There's nothing wrong with being disappointed. That is anyone's right. Raging, cussing out SE and Yoshi, screaming FAIL at the very first content patch because it is not catering to the top 5% of the game population is kind of lame, though. And that is what most of the 'disappointed' people are doing.

People are acting like this is some longlasting trend where the hardcore players get slapped in the face, even though this is the first major patch of a newly released game. Coil should have been longer, I'll say that, but it's not exactly uncommon for it to take 6 months to introduce a new, higher raiding tier.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I recall in Rainheart's translation that each group of 8 will get their own chest.

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This is correct, it's also stated in the official Q&A

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I can understand about seeing the positives about this whole...situation or whatever, but defending it and acting like there is absolutely nothing wrong with it will hurt the game more then help it, yanno? Mor Dhona on my server is getting more and more empty. The towns are gettin more and more empty. All I've seen and heard today is of all these end game focused FC quitting ; ;

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People are raging about there not being cutting-edge progression content in a patch that was never intended to have cutting-edge progression content. That's ok, by late December it will be people complaining about getting rolled in Wolves' Den by people in Coil gear.

PHEW thank GOD i stalled with starting coil. I've been sitting on full DL with relic+1 on my main DRG but I've been working on my SCH and just simply fooling around.
Even if I did do coil, I'll still be excited for CT. It's something to do.

About that i90 weapon. How exactly are people that can't kill Titan HM for their relic going to take down all three EM primals? Since the way it's translated it sounds like you need to kill all 3 off them. Seems to me that this is more something you do after getting your Relic in order to save 900 Myth (which imo is pretty neat tbh if most people with Relics wouldn't already have it at +1, so in the end it's mainly for alts that have Relics, but not +1s).

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Originally Posted by Mitternacht

People are raging about there not being cutting-edge progression content in a patch that was never intended to have cutting-edge progression content. That's ok, by late December it will be people complaining about getting rolled in Wolves' Den by people in Coil gear.

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What annoys me more is that the 3 other dungeons aside from CT all are the same reward category so to speak. They all drop i60s, which means they most likely got the same 100/40 distribution AK has and they won't be any harder than AK, so you'll just end up facerolling whatever is facerolled fastest in order to cap your Myth. Why not add some challenging repeatable content that's just below Coil that rewards Myth only, but a good amount of it? So that we actually got some content to get Myth with that isn't an absolute snorefest.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

@zdub303 relic+1 takes all of 3 weeks of capping mythos that is it, you can be +1 relic with out even unlocking coil... glowing relic means nothing....

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FYI - Relic +1 is ilvl90. So I would say, by now, most people have at least one i90 weapon. With some tanks going for left side myth over +1.

If you expect that all the content introduced in every patch is only for endgame you better start finding another hobby.

Question: why not make CT iLv90 and leaving Coil also iLv90? Wouldn't that be great, as it would be more content and more gear variety for everyone? CT being just a bit "easier", from a mechanical standpoint.

Eisenhower said: “In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.” CT having been postponed, it could have been wise to actually adapt the content to the situation… just saying. Setting things in stone and blindly sticking to that never really went well in managing projects.

As for gear, for instance you could have "powerful" sets from Coil, maxing numbers (STR, INT, etc.); and "speed" sets in CT, maxing GCD reduction for those who like to play at a faster pace with lower numbers overall (same DPS / EPS / HPS overall, just a play style choice). Or CT gear could be slightly lower level but with a few materia slots so people could choose which stats they want to focus on. Any of these examples would give at least a bit of customisation to classes as well, personal choice to make your character different from all others, something that is truly lacking in this game so far for an 'RPG'.

Then come 2.2, they can raise Coil T6+ to iLv100, followed by 2.3 CT at iLv 95 or even 100, and so on.

More content for everyone, dodging the issue of "irrelevant" content for hardcore players, all the while making it cool for casuals who could grind CT a lot whereas hardcores get relevant gear in both cases. Well, there's still the matter of pre-made 24-men, but that post was assuming this unthinkable lack would have been corrected by then.

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Originally Posted by Mitternacht

It's almost as if... the content wasn't designed for people who clear Coil. That can't be, after all we know that it makes the most sense to only make content that revolves around the smallest possible subsection of your subscription-base.

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Yep. Keep asking why I playing this game sometimes. Really isn't enough to do. Even with 2.1 will probably only last 3 weeks until everything is solved and done.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

1) Gearing up alternate classes/jobs is a very valid reason.
2) Vanity is not as valid but will be relevant later
3) Extreme primals- YOU might have lv90 weapons already, but most people don't. Remember, endgame players are a minority, as much as you'd like to think you're not.
4) Horizontal content growth isn't a bad thing. We could use more gear variety. Again, not everyone is a hardcore player decked out in lv90 gear for multiple jobs.

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Endgame gear is a joke in this game. Isnt very hard for casuals to obtain. Only problem people are walking into a brick wall that stops us progressing every week. Even with brick wall casuals are getting relic/alagan gear/myth equipment.

All you need to do is run 3 hours of content a week and your done for rest of the week.

Im on same server as you and I say more then 70% walking around in DL gear or better.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Of course I'm thinking about the content. The gear is relevant to that--because if the new dungeons have a recommended gearing level of AF and the Crystal Tower has a recommended gear level of 55... these dungeons cannot possibly be difficult and anyone who is wearing Relic+1/AF2/Allagan or even Primal+Darklight is going to blast through them without a shred of a challenge.

The content is completely, totally, absolutely wholly irrelevant if it's not challenging.

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Yet, I see so many people screaming "blasphemy!" when someone suggests ilvl synch on 50 dungeons.

If synch doesn't successfully keep the challenge for higher level players, then the synch system is not well thought. It's not a matter of content but mechanics, if the only problem is the challenge.

it's so retarded. i'll still be doing coil and wp exclusively.

Coil people can do pvp and wreck most of the first wave of pvp people and get easy pvp points...for pvp gear...for vanity reasons...maybe.