Gearing Your Monk in iLvl 90 Gear: A Discussion

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

The only question left is really how much does a one point increase in crit, det, or ss effect a how much increase in dps. then we'd know what the actual weights should be.

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Edit2:

Ok, apparently I screwed something up bigtime with the new DTR estimates. Should have just stuck with the old ones until something is finalized on the "DTR theorycraft" front.

WD 7.841
STR 1
DTR 0.224
CRT 0.172
SS 0.154

Anyways those weights should be better accurate for now until new information is finalized. In all likelihood DTR will increase to like 0.23 or something.

Edit3: Leggings stats corrected.

Running solver again results in [using hq deviled eggs]:

A: Belt, Bracelet [Maiming], Chest, Gloves, Necklace [Maiming], Ring Ring, Weapon
M: Earring, Helm, Leggings
M/A: Boots

Using Buttons (not relying on food for ACC):

A: Belt, Chest, Earrings [Maiming], Gloves, Leggings, Ring Ring
M: Bracelet, Helm, Necklace, Weapon
M/A: Boots

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Should be moderately close to:
WD 8.379
STR 1.000
DTR 0.258
CRT 0.172
SS 0.155
... [snip]

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Could you do me (and some others) a favor and supply this excel sheet? Personally, I am unable to construct a function like this in excel and I would like to reverse engineer your product to come up with a private gear-selection tool. Basically, I want to use your excel skills in making a sheet which helps me decide on particular gear combinations.

Host it through dropbox?

thanks in advance

Dropbox costs money or something. You can download it here:

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/qcz19kMjqe/

I don't have the greatest instructions and it's not super intuitive. If you have any questions, ask.

Note: the spreadsheet was originally designed to model rotations to figure out what rotations sucked or not. So the stat weight area is significantly less clean and requires some manual input.

Thanks :).

I'll try to figure it out and see how I can use your sheet to make a gear-selector

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Dropbox costs money or something. You can download it here:

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/qcz19kMjqe/

I don't have the greatest instructions and it's not super intuitive. If you have any questions, ask.

Note: the spreadsheet was originally designed to model rotations to figure out what rotations sucked or not. So the stat weight area is significantly less clean and requires some manual input.

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You mixed up the stats for Allagan/Myth Leggings on the Monk tab.

Allagan Leggings should be 34 CRT / 24 SS
Myth Leggings should be 34 ACC / 17 DTR

Oh that sucks, thanks!

Let me know if there are any other errors!

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Dropbox costs money or something.

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It should be free. it only costs money for higher tiers, but the basic tier should be free.
Everyone is able to see and download my dropbox link, right?

also, how did you get those weights? If they're confirmed then I can use them for the gear set solver. (I can't look at your fileswap link right now until i get home).

Those weights are based on applying valk's damage formula against the model/limited simulation of Monk rotation I created in my spreadsheet, along with an additional rougher model for autoattacks. Added 10 to each stat and divided. You can check the spreadsheet out at the link above.

The stat weights vary with rotation. Folks that use a lot of autocrit bootshines will have a lower CRT weight for example. The SS stat weight is very marginally over-weighted due to its interaction with DOTs (or rather, the lower than expected interaction with DOTs due to their server-timed nature, instead of debuff-timed).

The bootshine differential was actually enough for me to create 2 stat weight tables for Monks, as can be seen in the spreadsheet. The one I used above is "DK-only" to reflect a more "worst-case scenario", since it also lowers SS value slightly as a nod to TP constraints.

Edit:

Note that there's some controversy around valk's formula at high values of DTR. Etc etc people researching etc testing ~~

Running your weights as DTR .23, Crit .17, and SS .13 (i lowered it slightly since you said it was overvalued a bit). and a 472 acc cap...

Assuming Allagan weapon:
M/A: Boots, hero's earrings or earrings of maiming
A: waist, chest, gloves, bracelet maiming, neck maiming, both rings
Melee/Hero: head, legs

473 acc, +166 crit, +84 dtr, +32 ss

Assuming Relic+1 weapon:
M/A: Boots
A: Head, waist, chest, gloves, bracelet maiming, earrings striking, both rings
Melee/Hero: legs, neck

474 acc, +144 crit, +81 dtr, +58 ss

What about this one:
Allagan weapon
Melee feet and legs
Allagan head/body/hands/waist, choker+ears+bracelet of maiming, ring of maiming+striking

This gives me 458 acc, 501crit, +99dtr and +32SS.
With lava toad legs food, I get to 458+13=471 acc and 501+9crit.
That a bonus of 15dtr vs loss of 2acc and 6 crit.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

What about this one:
Allagan weapon
Melee feet and legs
Allagan head/body/hands/waist, choker+ears+bracelet of maiming, ring of maiming+striking

This gives me 458 acc, 501crit, +99dtr and +32SS.
With lava toad legs food, I get to 458+13=471 acc and 501+9crit.
That a bonus of 15dtr vs loss of 2acc and 6 crit.

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If using lava toad legs which gives 13 accuracy. then instead of needing 131 acc from equipment when using allagan weapon you'll only need 118 acc from equipment.

with allagan weapon, 118 acc, DTR .23, CRIT .17, SS .13 weights I get:

Allagan weapon
Doesn't matter: Boots
Melee/Hero: head, legs, bracelet, neck
Allagan: waist, chest, gloves, earrings striking, both rings

which is...
476 acc (4 over), 517 crit, +84 det, +32 ss
then +9 crit from lava toad legs so 526 crit total.

in this case you reach your accuracy cap, you have an additional +16 crit, but it's -15 det.

Though I think your set might win out on dps since it does forgo the minimum accuracy requirement being short 1-2 accuracy might not be too bad if you're gaining 15 determination. the thing with my solver though is it has a constraint where it must reach that accuracy cap.

Isn't the accuracy cap for turn 5, 482? Or rather these caps are all bs since I've also been hearing lots of different numbers(for melee dds ofc)?

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

If using lava toad legs which gives 13 accuracy. then instead of needing 131 acc from equipment when using allagan weapon you'll only need 118 acc from equipment.

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You have to be careful; food gives you stats based off your total accuracy. So just assuming you get 13 accuracy might end up screwing it over. Going with 341+118=459 accuracy makes lava toad legs give you 13,77 acc. So in this case it's correct, but we're already close to getting 14 acc from it.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

Though I think your set might win out on dps since it does forgo the minimum accuracy requirement being short 1-2 accuracy might not be too bad if you're gaining 15 determination. the thing with my solver though is it has a constraint where it must reach that accuracy cap.

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That's what I was aiming for, yes. I did hear that turn5 needs a higher cap though, so I planned to switch to Hero's bracelet for that., which would make me lose 11 crit but gain 11 acc, ending up with 458+11=469+14=483acc. Still +99 det though!

though if i set my solver to be more lax on the min. acc. requirement like you did I can get...
weapon: allagan
Either: Boots
Allagan: chest, gloves, belt, choker of maiming, earrings of striking, bracelets of maiming, both rings
melee/hero: head, legs

for 457 acc +13 from toad leg = 470 accuracy (only 2 under)
crit 523 +9 from toad legs = 532 crit
84 det
32 ss

which would be -1 acc, +22 crit, -15 det compared to yours.
since i was using the weights of .23 Det > .17 Crit, overall in raw numbers my set compared to yours would be a [+22crit(.17)]-[15det(.23)]= 3.74-3.45= +0.29 better optimally, but this is also because it's one accuracy less as well. So i would say it's so slim and nearly unnoticeable.

Basically 2 accuracy under the cap but +8 more crit if i forgo accuracy compared to my previous set i listed.

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If I try having exactly 458+13=371 acc as you did to have an equal amount of acc, i get...

Either: Boots, earrings of maiming or hero's earrings (same stats)
melee/hero: legs
Allagan: waist, chest, head, gloves, choker of maiming, bracelet of maiming, both rings

for 458+13= 471 acc
501+9 crit = 510 crit
+99 det
+32 ss

Using same accuracy as you my solver got the same exact stats as you did using the same gear choices :P

So I'd need to get some info on what the accuracy caps are per turn? In order to plan out gear that is...

I think 472 for most of it but 482 by turn 5.
if so then you'll probably need to have a 472 acc relic+1 set until you get up to T5 and get allagan weapon and shift over to an allagan weapon 482 acc set.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

Using same accuracy as you my solver got the same exact stats as you did using the same gear choices :P

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Good :P
Though I don't like the melee part of the set visually... vanity slots can't come soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

I think 472 for most of it but 482 by turn 5.
if so then you'll probably need to have a 472 acc relic+1 set until you get up to T5 and get allagan weapon and shift over to an allagan weapon 482 acc set.

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There is no point if you clear t5 when your accuracy was enough...

Right, I'm currently in the progress of getting my first Myth piece (apart from +1), which will be the chest (I don't see myself clearing T5 for a bit)
I'm wonder which item I should get after that.
I do have the Allagan Head already, (only allagan pice, been unlucky with loot drops)
So which Myth piece should I go for after I get the chest?

The way I go about it is looking at what gives me more stats per tome. Depending on the final set you want to have, I think legs might be a good idea.

A lot of this discussion is pretty moot; there's not a lot of options for people at the moment. Really the best way to think of it is to follow a three-step priority system:

1- Get to the accuracy cap. Any +accuracy over the cap is 100% wasted itemization.
2- Get the highest item level piece for that slot. Higher ilvl means more Strength, and Strength is so, so much stronger than secondary stats that even a poorly-itemized level 90 piece will beat out a level 70 piece with good itemization. The only exception would be a bizarre situation where the level 90 piece has accuracy entirely over the cap and skillspeed, and there's no way for you to switch gear around to make decent use of the accuracy. And at that point, well, figure out a way to drop accuracy somewhere else.
3- Avoid skillspeed whenever possible. If one piece has crit/skillspeed and another has crit/det, the crit/det one is better. This is assuming, of course, they're both the same item level. How much better varies depending on what your gear is, but at no point in the game right now does ss beat crit or det.

There's not enough gear choices at higher tiers for us to contemplate the finer differences between Crit and Det in any really meaningful way. In most slots you have a whopping 2 options for potential BiS, and 3 in your jewelry slots. If you follow the three-step system above, the choices (limited as they already are) become clear for each slot.

By the by, here's a helpful image many of you might wanna bookmark if deciding on monk upgrades.
http://i.imgur.com/4FFBsD3.jpg
(Image wasn't made by me but hot damn is it helpful.)

Now, revisiting this topic might be more helpful when they release more tiers of gear, but unless they change how stats work (like making Skillspeed boost autoattacks and TP regen) or significantly alter the itemization formula in some way (suddenly Crit costs just as much as Determination!), the three-step system will still work.

It's basically:
MNK AF+1 is trash, it is only for capping accuracy. Maiming/Hero's for more accuracy. Allagan striking everywhere. Swap swap with your current items and there you go...

I have nearly finished my DRG armor and have started to look at mnk for myth items now.
I already have the MNK wep from Twintania, and all the Allagan but the body, belt, wrists and Ring of Maiming so I am mainly looking at a setup built around that wep.

What I have come up with is:

Allagan: Body, hands, waist, feet, neck(maiming), earring(maiming), both rings
Myth: Legs, head, wrist

Assuming I did my math right at such an odd hour (lol)
Puts me at 286 Determination(+84), 484 ACC(+143), 496 Crit(+155), and 32 Skill Speed

Add HQ Buttons in a Blanket and you arrive at the stats 300 Determination, 484 ACC, 505 Crit, and 32 Skill Speed.

I've read a lot of peoples equipment BiS choices and for pants, many ppl have melee for it. Why is it better then allagan? I currently own the melee gaskins because thats what many ppl have listed.

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Originally Posted by AegisXI

I've read a lot of peoples equipment BiS choices and for pants, many ppl have melee for it. Why is it better then allagan? I currently own the melee gaskins because thats what many ppl have listed.

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If you can put the ACC to use on melee gaskins then they are better. They are not talking about actual BiS but BiS set. You have to look at your entire gear set not each slot.

I've seen a couple threads that said certain slots of **HQ with Overmelds (I believe monk pants were the specific example given) actually have more weighted total stats than the AF+1 OR the Allagan. Which would seem to have an obvious advantage in the sense that you could choose which stats to boost. Any thoughts on how that would play into this?

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Originally Posted by Stormblossom

I've seen a couple threads that said certain slots of **HQ with Overmelds (I believe monk pants were the specific example given) actually have more weighted total stats than the AF+1 OR the Allagan. Which would seem to have an obvious advantage in the sense that you could choose which stats to boost. Any thoughts on how that would play into this?

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Crafted pants are not better than iLv 90 pants because the increase in strength is simply too great. If you're going for a specific build and need the specific itemization than maybe, but I doubt it.

Also, Skill Speed is much better than Crit and Det in terms of WS DPS, in addition to other benefits. Crit and Det can only compete due to the fact that Skill Speed does not affect melee and a Monk's melee damage IS a significant portion. -0.02 sec is weak? 4% crit is even weaker. People need to actually do the math/parse and know exactly what -0.02 sec means instead of just going, "Omg, -0.02 sec only?" But yes, u do need to have enough speed to where you get at least one addition attack during a fight.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Good :P
Though I don't like the melee part of the set visually... vanity slots can't come soon enough.

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I'm with you. When did they say vanity slots would be implemented? 2.1? Also was there any indication how they would exactly work?

I just read Powercrow's post above for rule #3 and was like finally, yes, that makes sense to me on the debate on Skill Speed, that's the way to go. And then PenutButter goes and posts this!!

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

Also, Skill Speed is much better than Crit and Det in terms of WS DPS, in addition to other benefits. Crit and Det can only compete due to the fact that Skill Speed does not affect melee and a Monk's melee damage IS a significant portion. -0.02 sec is weak? 4% crit is even weaker. People need to actually do the math/parse and know exactly what -0.02 sec means instead of just going, "Omg, -0.02 sec only?" But yes, u do need to have enough speed to where you get at least one addition attack during a fight.

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I'm so confused! Which is the better way to go?? T_T I am thankful for Crow's rule numbers 1 & 2 though. So thanks Crow that helps A TON.

SS isn't bad but it's not as good as DTR/CRT in terms of raw dps.

Overall, do not focus on it.

However, higher SS results in two general strategic differences:

1. It's marginally easier to maintain GL3 in fringe cases.
2. You run out of TP marginally faster in fringe cases.

Overall, these two factor's don't matter much, but there they are.

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Originally Posted by Size

I'm with you. When did they say vanity slots would be implemented? 2.1? Also was there any indication how they would exactly work?

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Something along the lines of only being able to wear what you job/class can wear. So no heavy darklight WHMs etc.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

1. It's marginally easier to maintain GL3 in fringe cases.
2. You run out of TP marginally faster in fringe cases.

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There was also the argument you could use True Strike and not lose the Twin Snakes buff with lower GCD.

Personally, I don't think focusing on one stat only is a good idea. That way you will have to sacrifice other stats and that just leads to imbalance. I am fine with my current SS, so I'm going to go with det/crit. In any case, should I have to adjust, I can do so sacrificing some time. Besides, with my set being mostly Allagan and the weapon and body dropping in t5, I think I will end up full melee faster than my desired mix of Allagan and Melee gear.

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There was also the argument you could use True Strike and not lose the Twin Snakes buff with lower GCD.

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This isn't reliable in a generic situation. In order to use True Strike effectively, the prior and succeeding cycles need to be short (no TOD, Fracture, or other abilities between the prior and succeeding Twin Snakes, and no delays due to fight mechanics).

Balancing that against the part where you're only gaining 10p and using an extra hotbar slot ... sticking with 24x7 Twin Snakes is much more reliable and, in general, effective.

It's not really a significant argument for SS, unless you take SS to very high levels. This, in turn, makes the TP impact of SS "real". So now you are increasing complexity for no net gains.

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Personally, I don't think focusing on one stat only is a good idea.

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Generally speaking, Monks aren't going to be able to avoid some SS on the gear. So, /shrug.

Yeah, I'm aware it's not a significant argument, was just adding it to the list for completeness sake.
As for avoiding SS, in my current set i only have 32 SS vs 99det vs 117acc vs 160crit, so I'd say I successfully avoided it most of the time ^^

Grats ^_^.

I might horde myth to see what they're changing in 2.1 with Allagan > iLevel 95...

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Originally Posted by Lewp

I might horde myth to see what they're changing in 2.1 with Allagan > iLevel 95...

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Only the weapons are going to be 95, the gear will stay lv 90.

Hi all,

So here is my character: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1503263/

So, i managed to get to Turn 4 but are yet to beat it. So many of the major pieces of Allagan are missing for me at present. Been looking around and haven't found a suitable answer, so here is hoping i can find one here :-)

Basically, which Mytho pieces do you recommend to upgrade to increase my DPS? I was considering body as that gives the biggest STR boost, but im told i should defo upgrade the head first. I have Relic +1 so thats done with, but now just looking at ways to better my DPS to get me to the holy grail which is Turn 5 beat :)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Many Thanks!