Allow food to be kept for 30 minutes (even across dead)

Food, and all consumables in general, need a complete revamp/buff/fix.

Let's keep all these suggestions/ideas/comments in one thread(like the japanese do) to make it easier for community reps at SE to relay to the information to them please.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ading-on-death.

My thread with discussion/suggestions on this issue.

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Originally Posted by bluerei

Substantial doesn't mean outrageous, dumb and ridiculous as what you are suggesting. FF11 had xp loss to the point you can de-level.

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Sounds like some casual nonsense to me, better make it so you need to go loot your corpse or you might lose everything you have. Then you tack on the EXP loss, and maybe, MAYBE then you're worthy to grind out some pixels in a REAL MMO. I don't think anyone's ever done that, and if they have I'm sure it was a system that was so widely loved that it persisted and spread amongst all the MMOs of the world because of what a good idea it was.

But no, seriously, we're both just having a laugh here right? Right?

No clue why people are even saying "Level Cooking if you don't like the cost". Do you people even realize that even once level'd the cost of mats alone are usually about what the food is worth?

I agree that something needs to be fixed. We have 3 cooks at 50 that cook every week for our 3 raid groups and we spend upwards of 5-6 hours a week each just cooking food as we are teaching the fights to new people so consumption is higher then normal. That's not even attempting and wiping on turn 5 since it's been down for 2 weeks.

Either food needs to last through death or the amount made per craft needs to be increased to 3 per craft. I mean seriously look at the mats and you can figure out that if you were using all those mats you could easily make more then 1 serving of a food ><

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Originally Posted by Bahram

Sounds like some casual nonsense to me, better make it so you need to go loot your corpse or you might lose everything you have. Then you tack on the EXP loss, and maybe, MAYBE then you're worthy to grind out some pixels in a REAL MMO. I don't think anyone's ever done that, and if they have I'm sure it was a system that was so widely loved that it persisted and spread amongst all the MMOs of the world because of what a good idea it was.

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You obviously never played EQ1 have you? This is exactly what you had to do. Exp loss on death and if you were deep somewhere you had to get back there nakkid to get your stuff off your body or find a necro that would be willing to summon it for you. Was a much better time back then /sigh

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Originally Posted by Magnus

Buff food effects and change the duration on HQ food from 30 minutes to an hour.

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I agree with this 100% As far as losing the buff after death I think that is fair.

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

I agree with this 100% As far as losing the buff after death I think that is fair.

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I don't understand people saying "i'm ok with increase duration".
Really, have you done some considerations before saying this?

CUL actually sells ONLY food for crafters, because it EFFECTIVELY last 30 minutes, so people are ok in buying a food that costs 6K for 30 minutes.

People which are raiding usually DO NOT BUY HIGH LEVEL FOOD AT ALL because it lasts at maximum, 6 minutes for good try against a boss. For farming, is obviously useless.

So, increasing food duration means that CUL will make even LESS MONEY because crafters have their food value doubled (double duration) while I still use the same materials, so instead of 6k/30 minutes is 6k/1hour halving my (already low) earnings.

So let's make a summary:
- I don't get money from high level combat food
- I make money only through crafting foods and people want to double their duration (halving any earning)

Is this your ECONOMY idea? Oh please, why should I even level a CUL if I can only make money with low level food.

The truth is that increasing the duration of the food to last THROUGH death is the only resonable buff. 30 minutes should not be shorten otherwise CUL will make too much money out of it.
6k/30 minutes is a good earning, price will lower once people start using it (actually no one is selling high level food for previous reason).

Remember, actually the duration of combat food is equal to 1 try, so you can change it even to 4 days duration, it will still last roughly 6 minutes. And this is what should be fixed, that is a "false" duration.

Imo, Food should persist across death but make it an FC ability or something.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Why should you be rewarded for failing?

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I think the point is rather if you die with food, how are you supposed to win without it? It doesn't make sense that your second attempt would be harder than your first. And if you beat it on second without food, why should they ever again buy food? They clearly didn't need it at all.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think the point is rather if you die with food, how are you supposed to win without it? It doesn't make sense that your second attempt would be harder than your first. And if you beat it on second without food, why should they ever again buy food? They clearly didn't need it at all.

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Why buy food in the first place? That is the real question you should be asking yourself.

You know, strictly logical speaking.
Why should you be no longer well fed, just because you bit dust and are revived at the start of the dungeon.
On the other hand. You don't HAVE to eat the food, it just makes you better to a certain extend. If you suck with food, you suck without. (Yes Marmeladesalsa it also works this way)
In my culinarian way of life till now I have barely found food, which would be mandatory for grouped events. A lot of this food is quite a life saver for solo duties.
If you don't trust your group to do a dungeon without wiping, don't pop expensive food.
And 6k as expensive food? A single Pop of food in FFXI could be WAY above this, TANK food, so if your healer sucked, you were in more than just one kind of pain.
I saw parties dissolve because everyone expected DDs and Tanks to eat the best food there is and those people dieing all the time because the Healer was busy watching Jersey Shore or shit.

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Originally Posted by Fire-Dragon-DoL

People which are raiding usually DO NOT BUY HIGH LEVEL FOOD AT ALL because it lasts at maximum, 6 minutes for good try against a boss. For farming, is obviously useless.

So, increasing food duration means that CUL will make even LESS MONEY because crafters have their food value doubled (double duration) while I still use the same materials, so instead of 6k/30 minutes is 6k/1hour halving my (already low) earnings.

So let's make a summary:
- I don't get money from high level combat food
- I make money only through crafting foods and people want to double their duration (halving any earning)

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QQ much?

Wouldn't the price increase w/ duration as well? If you sold it for the same price as 30 min duration you only have yourself to blame. That's just bad business.

lower the price of food stuff? hey for those not understanding it. NOT SE is making the prices. If you are dumb enough to pay ridicolous amount of gil for food, the market will transform in this way. Its like in reality, something that sells really well, rarely gets cheaper, but it will stay at a high price, those not able to afford it whining about it are ignored by those making the prices ... why? because they want to earn money.

I think the status quo is creating a culture of not using food, so this kind of change might actually help culinarians (by increasing demand more than supply is limited).

Food effects should disappear when you die just as they do now. Got a problem with that? Stop dying.

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Originally Posted by Bearssi

Simple solution, lower the price of making foodstuff.
"Eorzean archive researchers have discovered that the Allagan empire could make abundance of food from single crystal. This lead to famine being extinct in the world."

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This is not a simple solution. Cost isn't the only reason for this. The amount of time to make food is pretty long. In order to craft up even 100 food for a FC in a week takes hours of work by 1 person. Yes we could easily tell people to pay someone else to craft it but we shouldn't have to.

I don't get this fixation on "if you don't want to loose it don't die or don't eat it." If i'm not eating it, i'm not buying more of it, so... yeah. That doesn't really solve anything.

Lets look at progression consumption.

Doing Turn 4 porgression, striving for that first win, One of the nights, we did a 3 hour block and I used up 16 of my food. So about 5 and hour, or 2.5 per half hour. I would have bought half as many personally, but I'm 1.0 rich. I have gil to burn so idgaf.

Non legacy players in my group? They could maybe afford 1 or 2 nice pieces and mostly used trash or none. If, hoever, I told them "we are going to raid for 3 hours, so you need 6." That's a nice, fixed amount they can sell a potash and know they are raid ready. If just one of them does it, you've made up for my lost buisness. Accross my fc, very few peopel are eating on every boss pull, we really aren't contirubiting to the market, precicely because it feels like wasted gil.

If you knew you bought x time with your purchase, you'd buy more of it as an average player. Its not about what the hardcore players do, they/we are always gonna do that. The market, however, is going to largely dependo n decisions of more casual / less xcore players. Knowing you can expect teh buff of food for a fixed time -- just as you do now on crafting and gathering--encourages more players to use it, resulting in more buys, resulitng in more vibrant economy.

As others have pointed out, if you know you aren't oging to die, there is no point in eating the food to start with so that just kills the point of cul being in the game (other than repairing my pumpkin head I guess <.<)

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

This is not a simple solution. Cost isn't the only reason for this. The amount of time to make food is pretty long. In order to craft up even 100 food for a FC in a week takes hours of work by 1 person. Yes we could easily tell people to pay someone else to craft it but we shouldn't have to.

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My solution was inside the quotation marks.

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

QQ much?

Wouldn't the price increase w/ duration as well? If you sold it for the same price as 30 min duration you only have yourself to blame. That's just bad business.

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QQ? I have money to spare because after raising my CUL I discovered is not a good source of money, leveled up another crafting class and I make money with the other.
Fishing and Culinarian are now there, waiting for a somewhat useful buff to make them actually useful and money-productive.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

lower the price of food stuff? hey for those not understanding it. NOT SE is making the prices. If you are dumb enough to pay ridicolous amount of gil for food, the market will transform in this way. Its like in reality, something that sells really well, rarely gets cheaper, but it will stay at a high price, those not able to afford it whining about it are ignored by those making the prices ... why? because they want to earn money.

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You know how money works? If making something requires a lot of time and "a lot of studies", it costs more. High level food (hq) requires CUL 50, some subclasses, max gear and at least 1 between botainst and mining.
Weaver can craft a 500K + item, ok they won't sell it often so I don't expect me to have a similar item, but still (and I have a lot of subclasses) crafting a single starred food requires around 35 steps unless you get an excellent or ALL HQ materials (which are costly, and if you want farm those you need usually fishing + botanist/mining).
So, to make a good food you need good farming (level up), you need fishing (and some fishes can be taken only at fixed times, like clusters) and you have to stay there and create food.
Believe me, it will take A LOT.

This is why food is not supposed to be economic, lowering the price will destroy even more the class itself, because you don't want to do 300 gil / 1:30 hours believe me.

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Originally Posted by Iecerint

I think the status quo is creating a culture of not using food, so this kind of change might actually help culinarians (by increasing demand more than supply is limited).

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You know, the culture is already DO NOT BUY HIGH LEVEL FOOD. It's too costly.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Food effects should disappear when you die just as they do now. Got a problem with that? Stop dying.

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They told me you play a lot of end-game content.
They told me you explained really well you point of view.

Please, actively partecipate to thread or just do not post at all.
We are discussing here.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

I don't get this fixation on "if you don't want to loose it don't die or don't eat it." If i'm not eating it, i'm not buying more of it, so... yeah. That doesn't really solve anything.

Lets look at progression consumption.

Doing Turn 4 porgression, striving for that first win, One of the nights, we did a 3 hour block and I used up 16 of my food. So about 5 and hour, or 2.5 per half hour. I would have bought half as many personally, but I'm 1.0 rich. I have gil to burn so idgaf.

Non legacy players in my group? They could maybe afford 1 or 2 nice pieces and mostly used trash or none. If, hoever, I told them "we are going to raid for 3 hours, so you need 6." That's a nice, fixed amount they can sell a potash and know they are raid ready. If just one of them does it, you've made up for my lost buisness. Accross my fc, very few peopel are eating on every boss pull, we really aren't contirubiting to the market, precicely because it feels like wasted gil.

If you knew you bought x time with your purchase, you'd buy more of it as an average player. Its not about what the hardcore players do, they/we are always gonna do that. The market, however, is going to largely dependo n decisions of more casual / less xcore players. Knowing you can expect teh buff of food for a fixed time -- just as you do now on crafting and gathering--encourages more players to use it, resulting in more buys, resulitng in more vibrant economy.

As others have pointed out, if you know you aren't oging to die, there is no point in eating the food to start with so that just kills the point of cul being in the game (other than repairing my pumpkin head I guess <.<)

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There are people that don't know how to use logic, so they can't even think about these issues.

Anyway, your explaination is the perfect one, clearly shows what the issue and how to fix it.

Just made food last an hour instead of 30 minutes but leave in the death penalty, that way people that arent bad (dont die) feel like they get their moneys worth if they try to squeeze in multiple dungeon runs on 1 meal.

They wont ever make food last through death because of speed/death sac pull strategies.
If you died, you're bad or need to learn fight mechanics better and you should be punished for it (lose food buff).

Its sad how many 2star melded/relic/+1 people think they are good but wont spend even 500g-1k on a piece of midrange food.
Take some pride in your damn job and eat some food.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

The food buffs are already so small as to be nearly insignificant. The only real difference is the extra vit provided, and that's really only important for the tanks.

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And people wonder why they can't clear the "hard" content in this game. *rolls eyes*

I do believe HQ food should persist through death, however. To compare to ToR--normal stims lose their effect after death, but the higher quality (within a specific tier) stims persist through death for their full duration. It not only promotes the usage of stims(food), but also adds value to a higher quality item over its lower quality counterpart. If HQ persists through death, that will add incentive for culinarians to actually sit and craft the HQ rather than quick-synthing for bulk.

I know WoW is a dirty term here but I think what Blizzard did with alchemy and flasks could be adapted well to culinarian food buffs pretty well. Have a high level food buff that lasts 1 hour, persists through death and gives decent buffs but costs a decent amount in mats. I get that flasks in WoW was an alchemy thing (was an herb/alc) but I think that'd be fair enough if it required a decent amount of mats and provided a good buff.

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Originally Posted by Sapphires

Just made food last an hour instead of 30 minutes but leave in the death penalty, that way people that arent bad (dont die) feel like they get their moneys worth if they try to squeeze in multiple dungeon runs on 1 meal.

They wont ever make food last through death because of speed/death sac pull strategies.
If you died, you're bad or need to learn fight mechanics better and you should be punished for it (lose food buff).

Its sad how many 2star melded/relic/+1 people think they are good but wont spend even 500g-1k on a piece of midrange food.
Take some pride in your damn job and eat some food.

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Sorry if I don't want to farm for money the entire day, I have to work during day and I want have fun when I finish work, not going somewhere, fishing for 2 hours because my raid burned down 20 food stacks.

Not only that, I'm a culinarian, miner and fisherman, still the food takes a lot to be farmed/crafted (high level food I mean).
And we are not talking about 500-1k g, we are talking about 6k+ for a high level food. Please try to buy a stack of high level food for a newly dungeon, like coil 4 or 5.
You'll see your money going down too fast to even notice it. Imagine 30 tries on coil 5!
That's 180K in probably 1:30 hours.
And you know, not all people are millionaire, actually most players do not have more than 300K (balanced by earning/usage)

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Originally Posted by Sigred

And people wonder why they can't clear the "hard" content in this game. *rolls eyes*

I do believe HQ food should persist through death, however. To compare to ToR--normal stims lose their effect after death, but the higher quality (within a specific tier) stims persist through death for their full duration. It not only promotes the usage of stims(food), but also adds value to a higher quality item over its lower quality counterpart. If HQ persists through death, that will add incentive for culinarians to actually sit and craft the HQ rather than quick-synthing for bulk.

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I don't get why only hq should persist. In this way you are basically DESTROYING all the market for low level foods (no one will ever buy low level food, actually is bought because more affordable than low level). There is already a good stat difference between an HQ food and an NQ food, if you really don't think is enough just increase the difference.

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Originally Posted by Valarice

I know WoW is a dirty term here but I think what Blizzard did with alchemy and flasks could be adapted well to culinarian food buffs pretty well. Have a high level food buff that lasts 1 hour, persists through death and gives decent buffs but costs a decent amount in mats. I get that flasks in WoW was an alchemy thing (was an herb/alc) but I think that'd be fair enough if it required a decent amount of mats and provided a good buff.

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I can agree with you that WoW did a good job in this. Alchemy and Culinarian base their job on this, we can't craft something that costs 1 KK but at least we can craft used things.

But for now, our things are not used =D

As a level 50 culinarian, i must say the idea of keeping the buff through death is the best idea ever till now!

If i make 10 foodstuff, it will take 3 days to sell, it will cost 25k to create, and it will sell for 30k - 5%, so 3.5k earned over 3 days.

Why is it like this? Well, because the only ones buying food is the people that dont die! And well, the only people that dont die have full coil gear and farm philo tomes in wp all day!
Why cant normal people also get the benefit of food? Of course people wont use it if it costs more than its worth, (which it does).

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think the point is rather if you die with food, how are you supposed to win without it? It doesn't make sense that your second attempt would be harder than your first. And if you beat it on second without food, why should they ever again buy food? They clearly didn't need it at all.

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Don't worry SE is thinking of adding buff for about every dungeon when you die you get a nice super buff. So there you go there your reward for death i just feel that people should learn the fight not be giving stuff for noting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do any buffs of any type carry over after death? I think (from a dev standpoint) if they did it for food then all other buffs would carry over too and that's probably something they're not too keen on. On the other hand you don't lose food buffs when you switch class but you lose all others so I think it could be done.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do any buffs of any type carry over after death? I think (from a dev standpoint) if they did it for food then all other buffs would carry over too and that's probably something they're not too keen on. On the other hand you don't lose food buffs when you switch class but you lose all others so I think it could be done.

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From the DEV standpoint it's quite easy, we are not asking for a rework of anything. And remember that there was a bug that allowed you to keep ress buff after death, so it's definitely doable :P