Why is DRG's design considered one of the best?

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Originally Posted by therpgfanatic

DRG has very excellent burst but I agree, playing it right now has way, way too many buttons to press. If I don't die to mechanics because a jump is locking me into place then I die because I am focusing too much on my hotbar that I can't pay attention to what is going on around me. SAM has this issue, too.

FFXIV has become the MMO king of ability bloat. Half of the abilities from every DPS job could be deleted and it would vastly improve the gameplay.

DRG jumps should grant temporary invincibility and delete at least one of the damage rotations. Job would be 200% better overnight.

People mention SMN, I don't know why they removed all the DoTs from it and then made the job much more complicated. While it's fun to actually summon different Primals during the damage rotation I wish they would have kept the core of SMN the same, so I do agree it seems Devs are trying to streamline DPS jobs to all basically be these enormous ability bloat chains with 4-5 different damage rotations to learn. It is become a game of pressing the right button for the combo instead of a game of fluid combat using an ability for the situation you are in.

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A) Keybinds are a thing. Learn how to keybind.

B) In what world did SMN become more complicated????

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Originally Posted by ILikeTea

What I said was that it had too many -ogcds- that essentially do the same thing, that have to be squeezed in together at the same time. I also didn't specify that it was a bloat problem, even though it technically is, as certain abilities don't seem to have a reason to be required to be used twice subsequently (jump/mirage dive, geirskogul/nastrond).

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You quote MD as being unnecessary but it's not. HJ cannot give gauge directly the way it works right now. See here. It would require HJ to have two charges and probably a GSK cooldown change as well. MD is what provides flexibility to our Life of the Dragon window.

The only things in our kit that are there to just deal damage are Spineshatter Dive and Dragonfire Dive. I agree that these should be improved, perhaps, but not removed. They still fulfill the role of having to be used at specific points during burst for enhanced damage. Reminder that unlike other jobs, DRG gets to deal 23% more damage during burst due to having two 10% personal buffs instead of only one.

NAS having to be used immediately after GSK is due to two reasons: you need two NAS per Battle Litany and since the latter only lasts 15 seconds, it has to come out asap. It's the same button because one transforms into the other just like it happens with other jobs. By that rule of thumb, Tillana should be removed because it's used right after Technical Finish.

Also, if the number of oGCDs/actions the job has bothers you, then do you feel the same about DRK, GNB, PLD, NIN, SAM...? Plenty of other jobs have buttons that "just deal damage" and could be removed but then you'd be left with a skeletal thing.

Imho it's better not to ask for removal of things but improvements of what exists or new ways of making the kit fun. Taking things away doesn't usually lead to that (see SAM and SMN).

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Originally Posted by Ransu

A) Keybinds are a thing. Learn how to keybind.

B) In what world did SMN become more complicated????

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You're talking to someone who suggests temporal invincibility, don't even bother.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Best designed DPS is probably BLM now, or even Job.

Blackmage is one of the oldest Jobs that hasn't gone through many changes that alters their identity nor its unique gameplay as far as I can recall. Rarely ever been in a bad spot regarding its performance and isn't shoved into the 2 min meta as egregiously as the rest of us. Perhaps a testament of it's " Good Design ". Compared to all other jobs who have been through way more homogenization, simplification, hollowing, changes, reworks, ups-and-downs-nerfs-and-buffs, deletion of iconic skills with the gameplay going thoughtlessly towards " look! a shiny button! go press it! ". And Square shows no sign of stopping there for every Job, except Blackmage.

If DRG players look at SMN as to what " rework" entails? it's no wonder some are not hopeful nor that excited for what's in store.

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The blatant favoritism is now bordering into unprofessionalism. I've seen this happen with Paladins and WoW where the devs do things that the playerbase did not ask for which upsets them. These devs in question do not understand how the game functions on a fundamental level which results in them alienating their playerbase because they only care about doing what they want to do, not realizing that what the playerbase wants is significantly more important since, well, they're the ones giving the money. Yoshi seriously needs to cut it out with the coddling of his golden child to the detriment of all the other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

You're talking to someone who suggests temporal invincibility, don't even bother.

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iFrames sounds interesting for PvP focused game MMO's... like Black Desert, no so much FFXIV PvE I think if that's what that person was suggesting mhm.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

The blatant favoritism is now bordering into unprofessionalism.

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Same. Happens in other MMO's as well to a far more extreme degree. FFXIV's BLM is not overpowered, it just gets a different set of standards on how it gets treated from patch to patch while other Jobs do not get the same level of care. I am not asking for BLM to equally suffer, but it be nice if Square/Devs and Co listened to player-feedback and implement changes to any job with some thought and care behind it or at the least the same degree as BLM. What good is redesigning Jobs to push them towards perfect Balance when the fun to play said Jobs are kicked out of them?

Somehow every Job needs a rework to keep things unique and Fresh. Every Job has some amount of bloat or homogenization. Deletion of skills or borderline an entire rework. Every Job gets to deal with a set of repeated excuses like " Look forward to it " and " Give us your Feed back "... every single one of them... except BLM.

Means we should all reroll BLM mhm

Reworks are by and large a function of player complaints around 'job difficulty'. The less a job's players try to leverage supposed 'job difficulty' to claim that they are automatically entitled to a dps advantage over others, the less likely the job is to get a simplifying rework. It's actually in everyone's benefit in the long run to advocate for a level playing field rather than trying to score short term advantages over other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Reworks are by and large a function of player complaints around 'job difficulty'. The less a job's players try to leverage supposed 'job difficulty' to claim that they are automatically entitled to a dps advantage over others, the less likely the job is to get a simplifying rework. It's actually in everyone's benefit in the long run to advocate for a level playing field rather than trying to score short term advantages over other jobs.

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I disagree? Square implements simplifications/hollowing out of Jobs whenever and however the hell they want regardless of Player-Feedback. Then if you desire any lost difficulty/complexity from your Job? Remember, we were told to " Just go play Ultimate " and " Give us your feedback ", that will get ignored.

As of SHB up towards EW present, plenty players of Jobs that received simplifications did not request to be changed or simplified even advocating to not do that. Majority also didn't complain about Job performances based on how finger-breaking their Jobs difficulty is more so then advocating for fairness, that's different. DRG is the next DPS in line and I believe they generally aren't complaining vs desiring Fairness, QOL changes and not receive the " Welp, I'm sadly not a BLM " treatment. But sadly like DRG's, many of us aren't BLM mains right? so we're all next up on the chopping block.

We receive changes because Square wants it for whatever reasons. Easier to balance or make the tasks easier for the Dev's, who knows. They think its right, it's their game, it's their Jobs not ours.

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Originally Posted by ILikeTea

I have been trying to get into this job lately and I just don't understand it.

I'm not here to disagree, but try to understand, because I love the aesthetic and the theme of the job, I think the animations look amazing and I wish I could play it well, but it just feels impossible to me.

That's just what it feels like to me, I could be playing it wrong, this is why I'm asking why dragoons mains find this job to be one of the most balanced/well designed, to learn something I may be missing.

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Now i'm by no means a Dragoon Main, but it is my preferred melee along with Monk, so i do believe i can speak a little bit on it.

At least in my opinion, i believe Dragoon just flows extremely well. Rotating between two combos, learning how to make everything work together one piece at a time. It feels very smooth and rewarding once you get the hang of it.

I enjoy the fact it brings so much damage utility for a melee, i enjoy how it is quite different from most other Jobs wherein you need to actively build up your burst phase by using Jump/Mirage dive instead of being able to dump all my most powerful skills from the get-go. It's different in that way, along with it's longer combos and small optimisations. It feels busy, but not *too* busy. The most jank i can find in DRG comes with having to delay your first Life Of The Dragon, but that's pretty much it.

That's why i think it's well designed compared to other Melee jobs. It gradually builds up to something, it is a little riskier with animation locks and Elusive jump being not just a straight dash. It's busy, flows well, but it isn't cluttered or full of jank like other jobs can feel (At least in my opinion).
It feels well-designed because there's no obvious or glaring issues it faces that needs to be fixed like with other jobs, there's no major removals the job has faced from the past expansions that hasn't been made up for or detracted from the experience. It just feels like a solid, skill and comfort-based job that rewards you for playing well while being punishing, but not overly punishing for messing up.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

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Job 'difficulty' is actually one of the most frequently discussed topics on this subforum. Just have a look at the currently active topics. Even just recently we witnessed a fairly heated debate over whether SAM or BLM is the hardest job in the known universe. Players go into these sort of exchanges expecting the following:

Problem: 'I have proven that Job X is the hardest job in the game by winning the debate.'
Solution: 'Job X should therefore rewarded be with the highest dps and become a mandatory pick in all content.'

What you get instead is this:

Player Feedback: 'Job X is the hardest job in the game.'
Implemented Solution: 'Rework Job X so that it's less difficult.'

Player feedback about the 'problem' is addressed. It's just that the solution they've implemented is completely different from the one that players were expecting.

Now if players were actually upfront about what they were actually after (i.e. 'I want my job to have the highest dps and be a mandatory pick in all content'), then you wouldn't have this issue at all. Of course, such feedback is likely to be ignored as it should be, but at least you won't have to watch your beloved job be ripped apart by the rework gods.

There's nothing wrong with presenting feedback itself, but there are always multiple solutions to any proposed problem. We do as players have the ability define design problems. It's the solution that is generally outside our control.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

You're talking to someone who suggests temporal invincibility, don't even bother.

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Noone is making you respond to the OP so I fail to see the necessity of being disrespectful.
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