Addersgall idea for when you are capped but have no-one to heal

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Originally Posted by Alcimus

hmmm, if we allow for the charges over 3 to convert into toxicon then isn't it just another way to have the same e-drain issue go on too? Cause then instead of just using the resource for damage directly then it becomes "don't use this resource cause if you don't touch it you do more aoe damage or can move more"? Don't forget that toxicon has the same potency as dosis, so getting charges of that just make your single target instant cast. To keep from running into e-drain like heartburn we probably need to keep addersgall completely separated from damage (save for maybe having the "if shield breaks gain a toxicon charge" mechanic). :/

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You’re right actually and I’m not sure why I missed that lol. Yeah, if overcapped Addersgall became Addersting it’d mean everyone would have to hold Addersgall forever for the Sting procs so it’s essentially the same issue.

I don’t think that necessarily means that there can’t be some alternative usage for Addersgall to avoid overcapping, just that the ‘Energy Drain’ type model wouldn’t really work, because it ends up forcing players to work around it rather than with it.

Maybe they could make an ability that consumes all Addersgall stacks for some kind of effect similar to Astrodyne, in that the effect differs depending on the number of stacks consumed. Direct MP restoration would allow Sages to recover the MP from those stacks without having to rely on overhealing, but it’s also not very exciting lol. Or maybe Sage could get an Addersgall ability that’s pure utility, like increasing healing intake or reducing damage taken, but then we also already have a load of those baked into the healing lol. But then if it gets a damage related effect, suddenly the Addersgall mechanic becomes entirely directed towards getting that damage boost.

It’s difficult to find a solution that resolves the issue of unused Addersgall without essentially ruining the purpose of the mechanic. But I don’t think that means it can’t be done, just that the answer isn’t clear yet.

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Originally Posted by Connor;5797907 if we actually had things to heal and there was any actual decision between ‘Energy Drain Equivalent’ and ‘Job Resource’ I could maybe support it. But with current encounter design anything healers have that [i

can [/i] be used for dps must be used for dps, because really, what else are you gonna do with it lol.

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Exactly, do what's the issue with burning gall for dps then if we don't need to heal anyway? Besides most players don't even play the role optimally and will overheal anyway.

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Originally Posted by Connor

It’s difficult to find a solution that resolves the issue of unused Addersgall without essentially ruining the purpose of the mechanic. But I don’t think that means it can’t be done, just that the answer isn’t clear yet.

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This is why I was thinking of having the option to shift some of the healing budget for the abilities into a shield, cause that's just preventative healing instead of reactionary. It keeps the damage abilities and healing abilities separate :)

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Exactly, do what's the issue with burning gall for dps then if we don't need to heal anyway? Besides most players don't even play the role optimally and will overheal anyway.

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While I can kinda agree with the "everyone's a dps" mentality, I still think that each role should have job mechanics that tailor to their role. Tanks have a LOT of mitigation, DPS focus on killing things, and Healers focus on keeping their friends HP above 0. There can be some overlap (like tanks/dps healing) but I don't believe that this cross pollination should come at the cost of what the job should be doing.

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Originally Posted by Connor

You’re right actually and I’m not sure why I missed that lol. Yeah, if overcapped Addersgall became Addersting it’d mean everyone would have to hold Addersgall forever for the Sting procs so it’s essentially the same issue.

I don’t think that necessarily means that there can’t be some alternative usage for Addersgall to avoid overcapping, just that the ‘Energy Drain’ type model wouldn’t really work, because it ends up forcing players to work around it rather than with it.

Maybe they could make an ability that consumes all Addersgall stacks for some kind of effect similar to Astrodyne, in that the effect differs depending on the number of stacks consumed. Direct MP restoration would allow Sages to recover the MP from those stacks without having to rely on overhealing, but it’s also not very exciting lol. Or maybe Sage could get an Addersgall ability that’s pure utility, like increasing healing intake or reducing damage taken, but then we also already have a load of those baked into the healing lol. But then if it gets a damage related effect, suddenly the Addersgall mechanic becomes entirely directed towards getting that damage boost.

It’s difficult to find a solution that resolves the issue of unused Addersgall without essentially ruining the purpose of the mechanic. But I don’t think that means it can’t be done, just that the answer isn’t clear yet.

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What's so complicated? It was LITERALLY marketed as a healer with more damage options. Not just another braindrad WHM clone.

If players play around it to maximize gall dps usage, what the hell is wrong with that? Bad healers will take it off their hotbar and either overheal, or not heal at all anyway. Let people who want to optimize, optimize.

I swear this community will beg for an auto-battler system and still complain it's too difficult.

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Originally Posted by Alcimus

While I can kinda agree with the "everyone's a dps" mentality, I still think that each role should have job mechanics that tailor to their role. Tanks have a LOT of mitigation, DPS focus on killing things, and Healers focus on keeping their friends HP above 0. There can be some overlap (like tanks/dps healing) but I don't believe that this cross pollination should come at the cost of what the job should be doing.

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Just another "healers should be healers LUL" Andy with an argument that's been debunked countless times.

1. This game is designed around having more healing options then you need, resulting in lots of downtime where you're pressing 1. Which is braindead and not fun.
2. Enrages are a thing. Healers are expected to contribute in damage, when playing at a high level. This is true in every RPG.

It's like you don't even PLAY the game.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

What problems? Is it so mindbongingly weird and complicated that spending your resources on *gasp* damage when you don't need to heal?

And we wonder why healers are so braindead to play.

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No, it's just really dumb to make a system where people spend all their resources on damage, and then resent any time they have to hold it for healing instead.

It's also unpleasant to heal with a lot of scholars (and really any coheal that won't stop DPSing when more healing/recovery is needed) because of stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Just another "healers should be healers LUL" Andy with an argument that's been debunked countless times.

1. This game is designed around having more healing options then you need, resulting in lots of downtime where you're pressing 1. Which is braindead and not fun.
2. Enrages are a thing. Healers are expected to contribute in damage, when playing at a high level. This is true in every RPG.

It's like you don't even PLAY the game.

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Glad we have gotten to personal insults already, wondered how long that would take ;)
I'm wanting to keep the other Addersgall abilities on my hotbar and if we open those up for damage they realistically wont be. The moment something becomes expected is the moment its balanced around, and the moment its balanced around is the moment its required. If we expect the charges to be used for damage, then if you aren't using them for damage you are using them wrong. See Power Drain, if you are using your Aetherflow charges for anything else you are losing damage which is being expected to be there, so your Broil has a lower potency than it would have without it.

If the party survives, then what is the issue here? Besides a lot of healers DON'T play SCH that way or even have ED on their hotbar and will overheal anyway.

Who cares if it's balanced around? If the party isn't dying then again what's the issue if a player is trying to maximize damage? Obviously a smart player wouldn't be doing that if the party is taking a lot of damage and won't survive. There is nothing wrong about spending excess resources during downtime, which is good design in my opinion.

Besides, if your damage output becomes an expectation and you are being excluded or harassed over it, there's a system in place to penalize that so it's a moot point.

SE's intent with addersgall is to dump healing on people. With the grounds that we had to kick and scream until they gave SCH their ED back, I don't see them giving SGE any kind of dump. Besides, what is the point of more healing if there's nothing to heal in the first place? An extra shield isn't going to help with charge overflow, and SE giving them a dump like ED is a vapor dream.