Equipment token system needs to be expanded to other content

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Honestly, RNG is shit and at the very best feeds a gambling addiction that shouldn't be supported in the first place. It doesn't make people run content considerably more often on average, it only cross-subsidizes the instant gratification of the lucky at the cost of the unlucky and completely screws up any effort to reward ratio, thereby devaluing effort as such.

It's a relic from the time when developers didn't know better and should die the death it deserves. Seriously, fuck that design PoS.

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This very forum speaks to the contrary. People have frequently voiced annoyance over running Weeping or Scaith 20+ times for their drop. Games like Overwatch and Mass Effect base their entire multiple component on RNG loot boxes where you either grind endlessly and hope you get what you're looking for or you use real money for more boxes. It may not be a system people like, but it has been proven effective.

20? Lol... I had to run Dun Scaith 70 times to get BRD pants. Seventy times during which, prior to the pair I did get, I only saw one drop. (And that one drop was on my 2nd run, patch day, and lost the lot 97 to a 98, which is no doubt why I was so torqued.) In any case, I don't think rng should be gotten rid of completely, but I DO think it should be constrained somehow. For example, imagine this system:

1: All gear drops could be purchased with Dun Scaith tokens: Say, 30 each for head, arms, feet, 50 each for body, legs.
2: Only one token purchase per week.
3: This weekly limit would be shared with the weekly drop/loot limit.
4: Each time you clear and do not win a single lot, you get one token.
5: If you do win a lot, ALL of your saved tokens vanish.

See, this way, most of the gear still comes from lotting, while those of us with really crappy luck are still guaranteed of eventually getting what we're after, even if it takes forever.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This very forum speaks to the contrary. People have frequently voiced annoyance over running Weeping or Scaith 20+ times for their drop. Games like Overwatch and Mass Effect base their entire multiple component on RNG loot boxes where you either grind endlessly and hope you get what you're looking for or you use real money for more boxes. It may not be a system people like, but it has been proven effective.

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Using Overwatch as an example, the grind is at least better streamlined. Getting duplicates of items from lootboxes yields you credits. With enough credits, you are eventually able to buy what you actually want. (Aside from past event items, of course.) In this sense, it gives an alternative into getting what you'd like. (You also have the option to BUY lootboxes, but that's a different matter altogether.)

With Dun Scaith or any other dungeons with gear you want from them, you're left with no choice but keep running the content over and over again. Take for example the Wrangler's Jacket from Sohr Kai/Hullbreaker HM. I lost count after I ran it fifteen times. I think it's a bit unacceptable to run one thing that many times just for something I want. I can deal with doing it ten times. (Which is the number you need to do any HW EX trial if the weapon you want doesn't drop.)

Constantly bad RNG is a thing, and I wish there was a countermeasure against that.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

Using Overwatch as an example, the grind is at least better streamlined. Getting duplicates of items from lootboxes yields you credits. With enough credits, you are eventually able to buy what you actually want. (Aside from past event items, of course.) In this sense, it gives an alternative into getting what you'd like.

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What you failed to mention, was the fact that the credits you get, isn't even a drop in a piggy bank, and you don't always get credits with every box. Since we are ignoring buying the boxes, that means if you want to get your legendary skin(who doesn't?) you have to do all the dailies and weeklies and all that jive, AND level up. Now, this was me buying the boxes, but I went through something like...30-something boxes before I finally GOT my skin. I still did not have the credits to buy it. So, if we want to use that as an example, you would be playing the game WAY LONGER than those dungeons you referenced. Now, mentioning if it's more fun or whatnot, is just preference, has no baring on the topic of RNG.

Honestly, at this point if you don't have the Alexandrian tank pants and are frustrated with Dun Scathe RNG just buy the Shire pants (wait...did I really just type that?)

You're not raiding (or you'd have the Alex pants already); you don't need good stats on all your gear, just ilv. Just upgrade them to get i270 pants and wait for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

In any case, I don't think rng should be gotten rid of completely, but I DO think it should be constrained somehow. For example, imagine this system:

1: All gear drops could be purchased with Dun Scaith tokens: Say, 30 each for head, arms, feet, 50 each for body, legs.
2: Only one token purchase per week.
3: This weekly limit would be shared with the weekly drop/loot limit.
4: Each time you clear and do not win a single lot, you get one token.
5: If you do win a lot, ALL of your saved tokens vanish.

See, this way, most of the gear still comes from lotting, while those of us with really crappy luck are still guaranteed of eventually getting what we're after, even if it takes forever.

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This is an example of the kind of system that needs to be in place (although I personally wouldn't have the tokens vanish, that's a bit overkill).

I'm honestly okay with "tokens" "vanishing" once you do get a drop you want (and win the roll of course) if you get it in 9 or less attempts. Even with Dungeon drops. This might be harder to implement with dungeons but I don't see why they don't do something like this in 24-man raids.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

I'm honestly okay with "tokens" "vanishing" once you do get a drop you want (and win the roll of course) if you get it in 9 or less attempts. Even with Dungeon drops. This might be harder to implement with dungeons but I don't see why they don't do something like this in 24-man raids.

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If you're going to have the tokens vanish, it'd have to be an all-or-nothing thing. There'd be far too many arguments about all the multitude of specifics on it. You'd also need to make the number of tokens required to purchase the gear pieces quite a bit lower than the 50/30 mentioned before.

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Originally Posted by Ransom

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I don't want to run this place 30-50 times for tokens that will vanish when you get an item, assume you ran it 29 times for 49 times and then that run you get an item all those tokens are gone. I don't get why people want tokens especially these pseudo tokens that are gone once you get an item, what's the point? I might as well run it 50+ times anyways to get something, the loot system in 24 mans are really terrible and I hope SE learns their lesson with LotA/ST/WoD/, and the HW raids for Return to Ivalice.

I personally don't think tokens are the answer if they do add them just make it 10 we're at the end of the expansion with a plethora of ways to get gear not just Dun Scaith but Scrip, crafting, Savage raiding. Having to farm all these tokens and having them vanish just seems like padding to an expansion that we're already waiting for that's going to make this gear we get obsolete anyways.

At the least in 4.X they mentioned they're gonna be making loot that drops only for a class that's actually in the instance, from what I remember