Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lufever_leaks/

https://pastebin.com/9BTsj4zX

These are the Blufever leaks btw, with his leaks saved onto Pastebin and a reddit post that has the more easy to digest bullet points.

Blufever has said "not only new race" during it.

"Blufever 1 month ago

#10

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Blue Mage is a support melee dps if this helps. Viera isn't the only new race. Please don't make me reveal more. ;_;"


So yes it has been said by himself that there will be one more race (referring to the same context as Viera i.e. playable).

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If he really was someone from the translation team, than I suppose he had information on various texts and certain descriptions.
If I think about the leaks he gave so far, they were not 100% accurate, yet he was able to tell which bosses will be implented, such as the omega raid etc. Yet he wasnt able to tell what happens to BLU, nor he knew the real name of Omega M/F (and called them Adam and Eve). He knew most things aslong their names were mentioned through translations such as Chaos being o9, Midgarmsormr o10, etc

In my opinion that lion race could be just as non playable race which gets introduced next to Vieras (Male&Female)
The Lore Book stated there are 25% other races living in Dalmasca? (If I am not wrong). The mentioned ones were Hyur, Seeq, Bangaa, Viera and Nu mou. There are a few more races that live in the Ivalice, some would be Ivalician moogles, Gria, Rev and the Garif. There is a chance he mistook the Rev as a second race while theyre just another race as the Lupin?

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Question... How can you insult pixels?

I happen to agree. Male Miquote look very odd/strange. They definitely seemed very "forced". They really weren't necessary at all, and ended up ruining the lore (males rarely if ever leave their ancestral home). Now they've done the same thing with the Viera lore (males don't leave), and I REALLY hope they stick with it.

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the same way you can insult an artist by ripping their work in half despite you never making a commission. some people do put effort into how they look the least you can do is just be quiet if you do not like how someone looks especially if its a random person you have no clue on. They have never said males do not ever leave the wood stop pulling imaginary lore from nowhere.

You deliberately came here to insult someone you should outright be ashamed (i doubt it) and want to rile as many people up as you can with your comments i absolutely pity you as you clearly find this as your entertainment you are the very idea of someone who is scummy :/

I doubt SE would only introduce one race and make it a female, after the bunny outfit outrage, they would be very foolish to assume there would be no backlash. There is going to be a second race and male exclusive, the question will be: Is it going to stick to SE status quo, of having males be tall and masculine?

Personaly, I am hoping for a small cute race, something to rival Lalafellins.

EDIT: I hope no feline races, we already have Miqote.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

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While I can't speak for the leaks, I can infer there maybe copy + paste mistakes such as repeating Viera dream is dead or whatever.

Sure, leaker may be wanting attention/recognition, but that may be their M.O on why they would leak.

Also, I never seen the full thread so I can't say what context it's in, and the leaker just couldn't hold on to it. (But it was shown that Gaius is very much alive and well, which does show the validity of the leaks, alongside Zenos being alive).

It's thanks to the leaker why we even have such strong evidence on their being a gender locked race.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

the same way you can insult an artist by ripping their work in half despite you never making a commission. some people do put effort into how they look the least you can do is just be quiet if you do not like how someone looks especially if its a random person you have no clue on. They have never said males do not ever leave the wood stop pulling imaginary lore from nowhere.

You deliberately came here to insult someone you should outright be ashamed (i doubt it) and want to rile as many people up as you can with your comments i absolutely pity you as you clearly find this as your entertainment you are the very idea of someone who is scummy :/

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1) I'm not the person you were originally talking to, so don't accuse me of insulting people. (I was simply agreeing to a point with the person you WERE talking to)
2) Agreeing that the male Miquote design is not of a high quality is not an insult to anyone. It's simply a critique of rushed and poorly made decisions by the entire TEAM, not any particular artist. Critiquing something is not insulting it. The only way anything ever improves in this world is by critiquing.

3) I didn't make anything up at all, so once again, don't falsely accuse me. Maybe you haven't done the Orbonne Monastery quests or you skipped the dialogue. Because it says plain as day in there that the male Viera don't leave the Greatwood.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Blue Mage is a support melee dps if this helps.

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Yeah and look how that turned out.

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Originally Posted by Corue

Yeah and look how that turned out.

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Well that's one of the details that was wrong for its classification, but it is possible to build Blue Mage like a Support Melee DPS.

But other than that it was spot on (though I hate current Blue Mage implementation please change it now SE)

The; 'Viera dream is dead'
Was actually him quoting someone, his response to it was him stating it was a new race. Yet again, he never said playable. It's just obvious that Viera would be playable due to the only reason they didn't wish to implement them in before was due to the massive hassle of having to redo the armour for the legs/shoes.

The lion was linked into it not being the only race - yet again he never said playable only that it was new to the game or rather to the FF14 world. Regarding Male Viera, I will correct myself as I noticed that the concept art of Male Viera from HW he still claimed was rather 'still cute' - but seeing as he showed it; his art team and etc must have really won the debate there and argued enough to have them shown. I can see this happening again. Yet again, the leaker never mentioned a gender lock. The only reason people think it will be is due to a mixture of Yoshi P's attitude regarding cute Viera males and the fact they believe it would be impossible for them to release two new playable races - or rather less likely. So instead they think it's more likely to have two species that are gender locked. Which made no sense to me but, you know.

Yoshida is the producer, yes, but he can be overruled as someone said. Part of me believes he's willing to have them if they simply do not fall into the troupe of being 'too cute' he wants them to be fierce due to their lifestyle.

Now; something did get my attention is that the lore was written did have a piece that got my attention;


Company Tragedian: “You spoke with a Viera, you say? How exotic! I recall reading that following the Empire’s occupation of Dalmasca, several imperial army units were sent into the jungles to round up the hares and bring them to Rabanastre. As you might imagine, only a few of the soldiers returned… and the few Viera with them appeared to have followed on their own volition.”

Viera females are in hidden villages that people can't get into - the Jungle will not allow them passage you need special permission to get inside. It's the hare part that gets me. While Viera are seen more like rabbits, hares are a different subspecies. Hares live alone or in groups of 2 - they only come together to mate and they're pretty damn aggressive. This sounds like the males. So, if they were trying to round them up - which would be one heck of a task since the boys are spread about - this explains why the units were destroyed. And the only reason a small few were able to survive and return was due to the very few Viera who decided to leave with them. This could easily have been males. It fits with there green word. Only leave the wood if it is to protect the wood.

Viera aren't idiotic. It's a wise move to return with the enemy to figure out what's going on - or to join them if that also means sparring the wood.


Anyway, this was just a lot of speculation because I love to speculate!

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Well that's one of the details that was wrong for its classification, but it is possible to build Blue Mage like a Support Melee DPS.

But other than that it was spot on (though I hate current Blue Mage implementation please change it now SE)

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Not once did he mention anything about BLU being limited and assumed it would drop at 4.3 and be revealed at E3.
He's gotten things wrong before.

A second race is by far the most outlandish thing he's stated. He only brings up a second race months after saying there was only Viera and given how much emphasis Yoshi puts on saying making a race is hard, I doubt they'd suddenly start working on a new one midway through developmental of an already existing one.

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2) Agreeing that the male Miquote design is not of a high quality is not an insult to anyone. It's simply a critique of rushed and poorly made decisions by the entire TEAM, not any particular artist. Critiquing something is not insulting it. The only way anything ever improves in this world is by critiquing.

3) I didn't make anything up at all, so once again, don't falsely accuse me. Maybe you haven't done the Orbonne Monastery quests or you skipped the dialogue. Because it says plain as day in there that the male Viera don't leave the Greatwood.

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The male miquotes have some of the best emotes way better then the females that are just bland lifeless animu kawaii poses. The male models tend to use the ears and tail far more in there emotes which i hope the viera do.

As for them not leaving who says they can't now. The game cant stay 100% lore driven when it comes to pcs otherwise a large percent of pcs need to change there name

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Question... How can you insult pixels?

I happen to agree. Male Miquote look very odd/strange. They definitely seemed very "forced". They really weren't necessary at all, and ended up ruining the lore (males rarely if ever leave their ancestral home). Now they've done the same thing with the Viera lore (males don't leave), and I REALLY hope they stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

1) I'm not the person you were originally talking to, so don't accuse me of insulting people. (I was simply agreeing to a point with the person you WERE talking to)
2) Agreeing that the male Miquote design is not of a high quality is not an insult to anyone. It's simply a critique of rushed and poorly made decisions by the entire TEAM, not any particular artist. Critiquing something is not insulting it. The only way anything ever improves in this world is by critiquing.

3) I didn't make anything up at all, so once again, don't falsely accuse me. Maybe you haven't done the Orbonne Monastery quests or you skipped the dialogue. Because it says plain as day in there that the male Viera don't leave the Greatwood.

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1) you are the person i was talking to which is why i gave an analogy more people can recognize as to how you can insult pixels its not the pixels themselves its the person behind the pixels be it a player or a developer who put the work in while you may not mean it but by asking that question you showed me that you have a lack of empathy for these people who do really put a lot of work into designing characters which again to me is insulting after your reply i don't think you meant it on purpose its just the way it came across.
2) Constructive critique gives the best improvements destructive critique is more of a gamble on whether the person/people will want to improve things i feel you need to elaborate on why you feel male miqo'te feel forced and how they break the lore as player characters may as well not exist in terms of the games story and male miqo'te are appropriately distributed within the game as npcs.
3)you did though not once did the dramataurge say male Viera never leave the woods he states both genders role within their society says how the more recent generations of Viera are growing more discontent in just wood life (just speculation on why atm also generation generally includes both genders) the closet thing that you can use is the dramataurge himself never came across a male viera nor heard of someone the thing is Rabanstre is a city and i don't think its unheard of never crossing paths in a city with a random person of a different species. also everything the dramataurge says is past tense there is no indictation either way that things remain as they were when the dramataurge was in Rabanstre.

I may have jumped the gun by calling you scummy and saying you came here with intent to insult and for that i apologize

If there are to be any other races added I feel SE needs to get away from the humanoid types and venture into non humanoid types, like golem and so on or even allow interracial combinations. Like lala/roe, lala/au'ra, lala/ mi'qote, lala/ hyur, lala/ Viera, roe/au'ra, roe/ mi'qote, roe/ hyur, roe/ elezen, roe/ Viera. This would appease a lot of the need for adding new races for a long while instead of it following the trend of having a new race per expansion maybe one every other expansion so the dev team and art department can make quality items like gear, weapons.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm looking too much into it I just think it would help diversify what's already here and add a little more flavor to the mix.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

3. Oh no doubt they are aware of it they would be bigger fools if they weren't backlash was always going to be a thing with every announcement you cannot please everybody the amount of backlash is what you got to try and minimize gender locking is on the big end of backlash this will cause way more discomfort in people than they don't look like how i envisioned.
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People are greatly overestimating the amount of backlash a decision like no male viera would cause. It would be far less of a backlash than what they chose to do with Blue Mage. And so the argument about being hounded for it in interviews holds little weight because the same thing will happen with blue mage.

SE wasn't afraid to take a job like Blue Mage and make it limited knowing full well the backlash it would cause, they certainly wouldn't be afraid of the backlash about male viera.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

People are greatly overestimating the amount of backlash a decision like no male viera would cause. It would be far less of a backlash than what they chose to do with Blue Mage. And so the argument about being hounded for it in interviews holds little weight because the same thing will happen with blue mage.

SE wasn't afraid to take a job like Blue Mage and make it limited knowing full well the backlash it would cause, they certainly wouldn't be afraid of the backlash about male viera.

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Thing is the black lash for blu being limited is unwarrented cause people were already told it couldn't work in the way ffxiv was designed. Yoshi caved to constant demands and did the best he could while opening the door to other ff job that just don't work in the mmo design. the outcry for male veira is premeture as no one has said they are genderlock and people have been told to wait for Tokyo. People on the forms need to stop jump to conclusions on nothing

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

People are greatly overestimating the amount of backlash a decision like no male viera would cause. It would be far less of a backlash than what they chose to do with Blue Mage. And so the argument about being hounded for it in interviews holds little weight because the same thing will happen with blue mage.

SE wasn't afraid to take a job like Blue Mage and make it limited knowing full well the backlash it would cause, they certainly wouldn't be afraid of the backlash about male viera.

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It's one thing to something regarding this with BlueMage which can be changed in the future by giving them an actual skill tree - I can honestly see this in the future and I hope it happens as limited BLU sucks. It's another thing in this day and age - and I can't believe I'm saying this because eugh it's SJW as all heck - to do gender race blocks on a race that has male and female counterparts. Holding a race hostage to one specific gender is lame; it's gross - and doesn't belong in this day and age. If they didn't want to add males then they should have gone back and rewrote the lore for FF14 to have it that males don't exist period and that they reproduce asexually. I actually despise gender locked races just like I despise gender locked classes - I'm looking at you Black Desert.

FF14 did NOT need to follow the lore of the other games and simply had these Viera be different with no males. They didn't.

I'll give you an example of a only female race that was done correctly; Asari from Mass Effect. All female biologically. Most people are fine with that because it's there lore - they reproduce with others regardless of gender and produce female children. No one is up in arms about this, no one is screaming; because that's how they were made.

Viera were never made like that. Viera distinctly has lore that talks about the male species being around in the woods and that's it. To go around and then say 'Oh, we're going to that woodland where all the males are; you know, where thousands of the males are confined into one single space that shoots outsiders on sight most of the time, but you're still not going to see them.' What literally is the point of that?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, this isn't at you - I'm angry at the very idea that if they do this how utterly BS it is. It is indeed me jumping the gun but the mere thought of it makes my blood boil. When March hits and it turns out our worrying was nothing, I'll come back and apologise for being such a baby about this and how I worried for nothing! That I assure you.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

People are greatly overestimating the amount of backlash a decision like no male viera would cause. It would be far less of a backlash than what they chose to do with Blue Mage. And so the argument about being hounded for it in interviews holds little weight because the same thing will happen with blue mage.

SE wasn't afraid to take a job like Blue Mage and make it limited knowing full well the backlash it would cause, they certainly wouldn't be afraid of the backlash about male viera.

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on a community level it might be smaller but the backlash that blu caused was/is down to the community mostly, gender locking will get more media backlash with why now? why Viera? why did you change for old races? you would have to give incredibly good reasons for why or it will sour a lot of reviewers opinions( you can't tell me some games journalists won't jump at the chance for a controversial topic) Competitors may jump on it as well like look we don't gender lock you can play as anything male or female. Gender locking creates a very negative stigma and puts more people off especially now when there are more choices to go play, gender locking races is also 1 step away from gender locked jobs and i certainly do not want that either. People are likely to be way more vocal about this than stuff like glamour if they decide this it will be a mistake imo gender locking races/jobs is always looked down on as a very bad thing by the majority of people and its something 2.0 was very much praised for doing away with

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Originally Posted by Kogekigami

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OK, BLU can work in FFXIV, and having a fan popular job restricted to what amounts to nothing, alongside their content already practically dead and nothing more than another collect-a-thon, an endgane that doesn't matter an nothing more than a SFX spammer, alongside being balanced as a level 50 job, with a pretty standard rotation of mostly spamming one spell, a DoT and a few oGCDs, we been outright lied to about its solo aspects, and the whole thing reaks of laziness at best, spite at worst. Not to mention being hypocrits (Lol Level 5 death on Omega, be too OP so lets make immunities on every bosses contradicting our own statement). No job in this gane should be Limited, and that it's against what the fans and majority want (even in Japanese forums they hate it as well). If one jobs Limited, every other job after CAN be Limited. What would your favourite job that you want to main get Limited too?

BLUs skill learning and being limited are not hand in hand, you can have both, or just one of them while having the full perks.

Besides the same argument can be applied to Viera (come from a different place in the franchise, incompatible lore, having to work with the original creators).

There's always going to be speculation, alongside the fact that SE are dodging every question and with very accurate leaks revealed.

If you're all for one aspect of the game being limited, be ready for other aspects being limited.

Except that the lore says that male Viera are EXTREMELY rare, which is one of the reasons they stay in the woods.

So if you suddenly see thousands of male Viera running around, that completely destroys the lore, just to satisfy a relatively small portion of the population.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Except that the lore says that male Viera are EXTREMELY rare, which is one of the reasons they stay in the woods.

So if you suddenly see thousands of male Viera running around, that completely destroys the lore, just to satisfy a relatively small portion of the population.

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I already talked about this will repost;

So I was thinking on this again and something hit me regarding numbers of Viera and how the argument of 'they're too rare'.

Lore has it that the Viera population in Ivalice is 5%. Ivalice is quite large and has a very big population. Viera aren't exactly endangered - there's no lack of them; they're just confined to woods for the most part. No plot that I recall of where their numbers are 'dying'. Though, I will remind that Viera means 'of the wood' and that if a Viera leaves the wood they are no longer considered 'Viera'

Anyway! Let's do some lame maths.
Let's say Ivalice has a population of 3million - small; considering how huge it is; and for comparison, the population of the UK - which is tiny in size regards to land mass - has a population of 66million - so for this example, I'm aiming disgustingly low. Note; I picked this number because of medieval England - even smaller than the UK! - had a population of 3million + that was with war/famine/bad hygiene etc. And of course, Ivalice is based on medieval Europe. Ivalice by estimate is more than just 10x bigger than England - that's a given.

5% of 3million is 150000 give or take. Now Viera births are 8:2 in regards to female and male. So 20% of 150000 = 30000 let's now cull the poor males because of their lifestyle. I'll be drastic and cull them by 75% which is extremely high. We now have 7500 males. That's 7500 males doing border control. 7500 males that can live up to 300+ years that breed every 3-5 summers with females, who also live up to 300+.

I have to ask; how would this spoil immersion? I honestly don't understand how people could get upset if 5 of those '7500' males happens to be in their vicinity or something. Or even ten of them or twenty etc. You're not going to see 7500 male Viera around you at one given time.

Edit: The 5% is a percentage taken from the 'Encyclopedia of Eorzea II'


Technically Male Kittybois are rarer; with a 1:20 birth rate or something.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Except that the lore says that male Viera are EXTREMELY rare, which is one of the reasons they stay in the woods.

So if you suddenly see thousands of male Viera running around, that completely destroys the lore, just to satisfy a relatively small portion of the population.

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You see,
*summons a Yo-kai Watch™ minion*
while I'm all for
*summons a car mount*
male Viera and all
*kills Kefka*
I just don't think
*queues for Nier™: Automata™ raid*
they'd be lore friendly
*puts on official Garo™ glamour*
and it would ruin my immersion
*glamours a Final Fantasy XIII™ weapon*
you know?
*flicks through tomestone phone*

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I already talked about this will repost;

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You know... With the number of times that point has been rebuffed, it's amazing how people keep bringing it up. Another good rebuttal I've seen is with white mages. Doesn't it also "completely destroy" there lore for thousands of them to be running around? Black mages too.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Except that the lore says that male Viera are EXTREMELY rare, which is one of the reasons they stay in the woods.

So if you suddenly see thousands of male Viera running around, that completely destroys the lore, just to satisfy a relatively small portion of the population.

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I don't know, having Yo-Kai watch Minions, getting a flying car, hunting Rathalos, soon able to queue for a Nier raid, having Garo glamour, the Moonkeepers and Duskwings and whatnot isn't already destroying the lore?
I think some male bunnies will not change much in the end.

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Originally Posted by Anira-chu

I don't know, having Yo-Kai watch Minions, getting a flying car, hunting Rathalos, soon able to queue for a Nier raid, having Garo glamour, all the catbois and whatnot isn't already destroying the lore?
I think some male bunnies will not change much in the end.

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You have to keep in mind, this is FFXII Viera, not FFXIV unique race. If you asked for a race like Viera and we got an entirely new one that's based of Viera that wouldn't be a problem.

Matsuno can reject any notion of having Male viera at all, on the basis that it goes against his Lore, not FFXIV. Consiering how they have already taken liberties with the Ivalice raids and tried to stay true to them as much as possible, it's still a FFXIV adaptation of previous installments elements, which obviously had to be run through beforehand (seriously, interhouse copyright is still a thing after all).

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Except that the lore says that male Viera are EXTREMELY rare, which is one of the reasons they stay in the woods.

So if you suddenly see thousands of male Viera running around, that completely destroys the lore, just to satisfy a relatively small portion of the population.

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hi xeala who rarely leave the steppe nice to meet you i am a hyur who are plentiful everywhere :rolleyes:
all joking aside using lore as a reason is not good justification this lore was written way more recently yugiri was always going to be a new race back in 2.2 so we can assume a new race was decided to be added in 4.2 what they both were were just in a conceptional stage now fast forward a patch and the base race idea should be on the table ready to be worked on as we know patches are worked on long in advance between 2 to 3 patches sometimes more so the lore for viera is within that time frame so from 4.3 (latest) to 4.5 release they easily could've excluded males from any mention they did not in fact they emphasize male viera roles and viera society in general. If you wanted to exclude a gender this would've been the easiest place to nip it in the bud they choose not to.
Player characters outside of yourself do not exist they have 0 bearing on any story within ffxiv so it would not be impossible for a single male viera to leave the wood or a pregnant female viera who will have a boy grow up outside the wood and become the WoL. Rarity means nothing impossibility does and they have males as a possible gender for newborn viera thus it is not impossible for males to be the WoL

Where are you getting the % of population of Viera? FF12?

While Dalmasca and Ivalice are making an appearance in FF14, it is not the full world of Ivalice that FF12 and Tactics inhabit.

No offense, but made up numbers are made up numbers. I go with what was stated in the Lore of FF14, which is that the population of male Viera is SO LOW (and the birth rate abysmal), that they will force the males to stay in the woods. Also, your example doesn't take into account the fact that the % of males that leave would be very small. So lets assume there are 30,000 males (non-culled number). Since the culture is such that it's highly taboo to leave, it's not unreasonable to say that only 1% leave. Which would be 3,000 total present in all of the rest of the world. But again, it's moot since made up numbers are made up and lore is lore.

It's already bad enough that the females are going to be a playable race. That also completely breaks with the lore (even the females are supposed to be reclusive).

If SE really wants to give players male Viera, then do so, that's great. But they'd have to CHANGE the lore, otherwise there's no point to the lore at all.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Where are you getting the % of population of Viera? FF12?

While Dalmasca and Ivalice are making an appearance in FF14, it is not the full world of Ivalice that FF12 and Tactics inhabit.

No offense, but made up numbers are made up numbers. I go with what was stated in the Lore of FF14, which is that the population of male Viera is SO LOW (and the birth rate abysmal), that they will force the males to stay in the woods.

It's already bad enough that the females are going to be a playable race. That also completely breaks with the lore (even the females are supposed to be reclusive).

If SE really wants to give players male Viera, then do so, that's great. But they'd have to CHANGE the lore, otherwise there's no point to the lore at all.

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No, I stated the percentage is from the Encylopedia of Eorzea II... this is FF14 lore - it's regarding FF14 Ivalice population...???

... Lore also states that more and more of them are leaving the wood... you should probably read up on known lore if you're going to use it as a shield.

Sorry, don't have the book. Can you SS the relevant parts you're referring to? All I have to go by is in-game lore (which contradicts the encyclopedia if what you say is true).

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

People are greatly overestimating the amount of backlash a decision like no male viera would cause. It would be far less of a backlash than what they chose to do with Blue Mage. And so the argument about being hounded for it in interviews holds little weight because the same thing will happen with blue mage.

SE wasn't afraid to take a job like Blue Mage and make it limited knowing full well the backlash it would cause, they certainly wouldn't be afraid of the backlash about male viera.

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Shipp my old comrade of the Samurai Tank/ DPS wars, I'm afraid we find ourselves on different sides this time. I for one have no fear that Male Viera will be added to the game, and am 100% certain they will be. How can me so certain you may ask?

We got them got them to gives us Viera, a race Yoshi himself didn't want in the game. Should they now, in this environment, try to gender lock a race in this game, right as it's gaining main stream popularity, they will be inundated with so much negative attention and demand, that they will recourse but to implement them by way of apology.

It's an ugly to do it, and an even uglier way to win things, but if they shoot themselves in the foot now, they will have brought it down on themselves. ...and i'm not just saying that for the sake of my alt:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1v5l-M3PmL.jpg

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Originally Posted by Corue

You see,
*summons a Yo-kai Watch™ minion*
while I'm all for
*summons a car mount*
male Viera and all
*kills Kefka*
I just don't think
*queues for Nier™: Automata™ raid*
they'd be lore friendly
*puts on official Garo™ glamour*
and it would ruin my immersion
*glamours a Final Fantasy XIII™ weapon*
you know?
*flicks through tomestone phone*

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lets add 500 kiritos on male miquotes who have a naming lore.

People need to stop equating "PC game population" and "Canon game population". If the two were equivalent, your lore would already be broken because there's a good ~7.5-15k Warriors of Light on every server. Given that it only takes 4/8 players to achieve any of the objectives towards freeing Doma/Gyr Abania, and 24 to deal with all of the Ivalice doom and gloom, then we should be all set to just ride on up to Garlemald and stomp Solus and Varis, right? A few dozen can smash each ascian and we're done.

.... Except that the game is written with the assumption that there is only one current WoL. That's the "rare Viera from the wood". That's why the "rare miqo'te male" works, too. You can establish whatever game-population lore you want, but the "numbers" only work at any time when applied to the single canon WoL.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

on a community level it might be smaller but the backlash that blu caused was/is down to the community mostly, gender locking will get more media backlash with why now? why Viera? why did you change for old races? you would have to give incredibly good reasons for why or it will sour a lot of reviewers opinions( you can't tell me some games journalists won't jump at the chance for a controversial topic) Competitors may jump on it as well like look we don't gender lock you can play as anything male or female. Gender locking creates a very negative stigma and puts more people off especially now when there are more choices to go play, gender locking races is also 1 step away from gender locked jobs and i certainly do not want that either. People are likely to be way more vocal about this than stuff like glamour if they decide this it will be a mistake imo gender locking races/jobs is always looked down on as a very bad thing by the majority of people and its something 2.0 was very much praised for doing away with

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And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry, don't have the book. Can you SS the relevant parts you're referring to? All I have to go by is in-game lore (which contradicts the encyclopedia if what you say is true).

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https://prnt.sc/mhxvf4
Apologies had to take a picture from the phone as I was far too lazy to remove everything from my printer.

You can find a lot more of the lore here; someone summarised all of the quotes from the dramaturge and etc
http://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/pos...7699/the-viera

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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Yes, but those who play FF14 are of a different breed to those who play Korean MMOs that have the gender locks. This community is big on acceptance of all kinds. It is known to be 'accepting' in regards to all communities - LBGT+ etc. And they're extremely vocal. They were vocal before with the previous locks and they'll be vocal now. But this time the fact SE didn't learn their lesson and went back and Gender Locked a race after the fiasco was before isn't going to earn them any kind of leeway.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

hi xeala who rarely leave the steppe nice to meet you i am a hyur who are plentiful everywhere :rolleyes:
all joking aside using lore as a reason is not good justification this lore was written way more recently yugiri was always going to be a new race back in 2.2 so we can assume a new race was decided to be added in 4.2 what they both were were just in a conceptional stage now fast forward a patch and the base race idea should be on the table ready to be worked on as we know patches are worked on long in advance between 2 to 3 patches sometimes more so the lore for viera is within that time frame so from 4.3 (latest) to 4.5 release they easily could've excluded males from any mention they did not in fact they emphasize male viera roles and viera society in general. If you wanted to exclude a gender this would've been the easiest place to nip it in the bud they choose not to.
Player characters outside of yourself do not exist they have 0 bearing on any story within ffxiv so it would not be impossible for a single male viera to leave the wood or a pregnant female viera who will have a boy grow up outside the wood and become the WoL. Rarity means nothing impossibility does and they have males as a possible gender for newborn viera thus it is not impossible for males to be the WoL

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lets not forget you can now go back as a Aura talking to Yugiri who says she is covered because her race is often mistaken for void or dragons and get killed on site and noone in eozera have seen them before.....

I mean its almost a trope in story telling to have people leave the traditional norms. It wouldn't be hard to have a male veira appear and say 'traditionally males stay in the woods but after the war happened we have started to leave and contribute to protect our home.'

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

You have to keep in mind, this is FFXII Viera, not FFXIV unique race. If you asked for a race like Viera and we got an entirely new one that's based of Viera that wouldn't be a problem.

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No, this is XIV Viera from XIV Ivalice. Adding male Viera here wouldn't retroactively break the canon of the actual Ivalice games.

Reversed timeline? Sure.
Events playing out differently? Fine by me.
Geological changes and mixed up locations? No problem.
Characters assuming different roles and personalities? That's reasonable.
Male bunnies? Too far.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

https://prnt.sc/mhxvf4
Apologies had to take a picture from the phone as I was far too lazy to remove everything from my printer.

You can find a lot more of the lore here; someone summarised all of the quotes from the dramaturge and etc
http://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/pos...7699/the-viera

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after reading the summery, male bunnies are basically a guaranteed thing, my idea for them was the male Viera who didn't become a wood wailer, were exiled, and that's how we were going to be introduced, but seeing that Viera are leaving the forests if they have a male kit with them then yea that male Viera wouldn't be shunned from his people or others in the cities, if anything if female vieras are popular due to there air of mystery then male vieras must also be very popular due to being rarer, making them just as likely to become adventurers or explorers.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

It's one thing to something regarding this with BlueMage which can be changed in the future by giving them an actual skill tree - I can honestly see this in the future and I hope it happens as limited BLU sucks.

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I mean, why does this not apply to Viera? The vast majority of people who asked for viera were expecting the female viera we are getting. Who is to say releasing them as a genderlocked race isn't a way for SE to fully gauge the demand for male Viera exclusively to be added in the future?

It let's them add the most requested race (predominantly female viera) which is a sure bet to be a popular race, whereas male viera may be more of a gamble.

We sure had a vocal minority clamoring for male bunny outfits, only for them to be hardly seen actually being worn once people finally got them, even on servers you'd expect to see more.

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It's another thing in this day and age - and I can't believe I'm saying this because eugh it's SJW as all heck - to do gender race blocks on a race that has male and female counterparts. Holding a race hostage to one specific gender is lame; it's gross - and doesn't belong in this day and age. If they didn't want to add males then they should have gone back and rewrote the lore for FF14 to have it that males don't exist period and that they reproduce asexually. I actually despise gender locked races just like I despise gender locked classes - I'm looking at you Black Desert.

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Yet black desert has had a pretty solid amount of success. Even though it's both gender and class locked. Tera is another example of an MMO that's had sustainability despite gender locking, as does many other online games.

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I'll give you an example of a only female race that was done correctly; Asari from Mass Effect. All female biologically. Most people are fine with that because it's there lore - they reproduce with others regardless of gender and produce female children. No one is up in arms about this, no one is screaming; because that's how they were made.

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Don't you think this is now going against your own argument? Either genderlocking is bad, or its fine as long as there's lore to support it?* So SE only has to establish lore reasons such as all the male viera dying in a certain inferno shown to us. Or maybe they all gathered and summoned a primal and are all tempered, thus unplayable.

If I wanted to play a biotic commando in Mass Effect multiplayer I would be forced to play a female asari. How is that different than Black Deserts?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I mean, why does this not apply to Viera? The vast majority of people who asked for viera were expecting the female viera we are getting. Who is to say releasing them as a genderlocked race isn't a way for SE to fully gauge the demand for male Viera exclusively to be added in the future?

It let's them add the most requested race (predominantly female viera) which is a sure bet to be a popular race, whereas male viera may be more of a gamble.

We sure had a vocal minority clamoring for male bunny outfits, only for them to be hardly seen actually being worn once people finally got them, even on servers you'd expect to see more.

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Honestly not sure on this one because I didn't care about the outfit; I figure it was more of an equality thing, to be honest. As for them wanting the female; that would be one heck of an assumption.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Yet black desert has had a pretty solid amount of success. Even though it's both gender and class locked. Tera is another example of an MMO that's had sustainability despite gender locking, as does many other online games.

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Yes, it does, for that community or....
http://prntscr.com/mhy6f5
Yeah... that's just me using those specific words gender lock etc; I'm sure there are more threads on their forum of people screaming about the gender class lock. Bound to be more on other media websites.
http://prntscr.com/mhyb27
The same with Tera. Just search results from using those specific words in their forum, bound to be a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Don't you think this is now going against your own argument? Either genderlocking is bad, or its fine as long as there's lore to support it?* So SE only has to establish lore reasons such as all the male viera dying in a certain inferno shown to us. Or maybe they all gathered and summoned a primal and are all tempered, thus unplayable.

If I wanted to play a biotic commando in Mass Effect multiplayer I would be forced to play a female asari. How is that different than Black Deserts?

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No, I don't agree with that and it doesn't go against my argument. I said the lore for asari was sound for why you didn't see a male Asari. The fact they locked classes to specific genders regarding the multiplayer was also lame. And if males died while summoning a primal. Well, Viera got a bigger problem on their hands. Like going extinct.

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Originally Posted by Corue

No, this is XIV Viera from XIV Ivalice. Adding male Viera here wouldn't retroactively break the canon of the actual Ivalice games.

Reversed timeline? Sure.
Events playing out differently? Fine by me.
Geological changes and mixed up locations? No problem.
Characters assuming different roles and personalities? That's reasonable.
Male bunnies? Too far.

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Yes this is FFXIV Ivalice and FFXIV Viera, however they're both based off of FFXII and FFT incarnations. This means they still have to deal with the original right owners, but they also need to have permission in the first place to do so.

If it was its own unique race there wouldn't be a problem. But this is dealing with Viera wholesale, not a FFXIV version, Viera as a whole. First originating in Tactics Advance (which is a far different Ivalice than of XIV and XII) had them as gender locked then, and when XII was made they kept the gender lock.

There seems to be a heavy theme in how the creator originally envisioned the race, not even taking into account if there would be an MMORPG featuring them (who could back in the early 2000s?)

This is why it's an adaptation and SE wants to remain faithful to the source material. If an adaptation isn't faithful people would deride the end product as it's "not representing what they wanted."

It's not about keeping XII lore (anyone who say Viera originated in XII are mis-informed) but from Tactics Advance, it's keeping Viera Lore as a whole intact. It's like saying Crystal Tower isn't a faithful adaptation/recreation of the final dungeon from FF3 because "they added in characters who weren't relevant to the source game".

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Yes this is FFXIV Ivalice and FFXIV Viera, however they're both based off of FFXII and FFT incarnations. This means they still have to deal with the original right owners, but they also need to have permission in the first place to do so.

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It's Square Enix anyway; Square at that time for FFT, but still SE. They own the rights on the whole Final Fantasy licence. They can throw Kefka in a raid, Krile as an NPC.
Just like Bloodborne has Moonlight Greatsword, originating from other From Software games. They can do what they want with their original creations.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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https://mmos.com/editorials/on-chara...cking-in-games

https://www.gamingfactors.com/mmorpg...ocked-classes/

https://www.freemmostation.com/news/...ocked-classes/

https://www.mmobyte.tv/a-brand-new-u...d-information/

https://massivelyop.com/2017/08/31/m...asses-in-mmos/

A few news articles ranging across the years and its very common to see the negative stigma that gender locking brings. Black desert online and Tera could've both been more successful had they not added gender lock on their classes forcing people to play their way rather than the player's way will create attrition.
SE are in a good position with ffxiv but as a company its not as good and they should rightly be thinking about not stirring the pot too much right now especially after cancelling ffxv dlc and don't think the smallest thing won't set people off if Paranorman can get heavily criticized because of having a gay character (literally get told in last minute of the movie) than ffxiv could easily get criticized for adding gender locked races how much only time will tell if it happens.

Now all of that is my side so if you can find news articles in favour of gender locking races/jobs i'll be very interested in reading them as be good to get that perspective.