What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

EW isn't Chrono Trigger though. It was somebody making a point about one aspect of EW's story with time travel apparently being so bad and comparing it to how Chrono Trigger handled it when I reality that game is just as guilty of the same "criticism" as the points given to why they think it's bad.

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Of course EW isn't Chrono Trigger, people are still praising the story of CT. People were noticing plotholes in EW within a month. They are very different games, lmao.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Of course EW isn't Chrono Trigger, people are still praising the story of CT. People were noticing plotholes in EW within a month. They are very different games, lmao.

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I love Chrono Trigger but I guarantee you if the game's story was presented in today's modern jaded views people would be picking it apart. It's so easy to say that people praise it when a lot of it happens to be old farts like myself looking back with nostalgic goggles.

Anyway I'm not trying to give excuse to EW story, I'm just having issues with the general loud audience whom are the same people whom overly analyze yet overly praise certain aspects of the game story. These same people that overhype Heavensward, crap on Stomblood and over sell Shadowbringers when they're not masterpieces they claim to be. Endwalker is no different yet the attitude given to it seems like it's just people shelling over their own strong opinions and have no clue how story writing works.

The story of endwalker is bad and incompetent written. It focused on trying to do 'emotional' moments (Ultima thul) instead of trying to wrap up stort elements correctly.

Either the devs never knew how they were going to end it, or the lead writer was an idiot who had no idea what was intended by those who came before.

SE, instead of focusing on poorly written fake outs and edgie drama, make sure it makes sense first.

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Originally Posted by Gararr

The story of endwalker is bad and incompetent written. It focused on trying to do 'emotional' moments (Ultima thul) instead of trying to wrap up stort elements correctly.

Either the devs never knew how they were going to end it, or the lead writer was an idiot who had no idea what was intended by those who came before.

SE, instead of focusing on poorly written fake outs and edgie drama, make sure it makes sense first.

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Yeah because that was the whole focus of EW. Not everything else just Ultima Thule apparently.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah because that was the whole focus of EW. Not everything else just Ultima Thule apparently.

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Just because Gararr picked the most egregious one doesn't mean he exempted the other issues.

Personally, EW is the fall flat on the face moment for XIV.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah because that was the whole focus of EW. Not everything else just Ultima Thule apparently.

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Reads like "just because the ending sucks..."

We also don't judge the WHOLE expansion. If you want that experience than read those 700 pages completely if you really want that

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Reads like "just because the ending sucks..."

We also don't judge the WHOLE expansion. If you want that experience than read those 700 pages completely if you really want that

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Agreed - usually, even those who hated it seem to admit that there were a few standout moments. The sequence with Matsya and the baby is usually one such example.

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Originally Posted by Gararr

The story of endwalker is bad and incompetent written. It focused on trying to do 'emotional' moments (Ultima thul) instead of trying to wrap up stort elements correctly.

Either the devs never knew how they were going to end it, or the lead writer was an idiot who had no idea what was intended by those who came before.

SE, instead of focusing on poorly written fake outs and edgie drama, make sure it makes sense first.

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Irregardless of the quality of EW's writing I find this to be a terrible PoV.
EVERY story needs an emotional core first and foremost before everything else is put into place.
If you're just writing stuff with nothing to get across the audience will leave with no lasting impression and nothing to resonate with, literally just passionless drivel designed to be consumed and thrown out of your mind the moment you finish it.

Much pretentiousness do I sense in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Irregardless of the quality of EW's writing I find this to be a terrible PoV.
EVERY story needs an emotional core first and foremost before everything else is put into place.
If you're just writing stuff with nothing to get across the audience will leave with no lasting impression and nothing to resonate with, literally just passionless drivel designed to be consumed and thrown out of your mind the moment you finish it.

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Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

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Hard agree. What you've described is a more effective way to make it so that the story makes sense when they try to push the "tales of loss" bit, if only by virtue of the sacrifices lasting longer than 30 minutes. Some of these characters shouldn't come back, with those that do being able to take on more active roles in the future where we can see their arcs continue to progress.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

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This would have been an excellent approach. I still would have said "dangit, I thought I was finally rid of at least one of them!" but it still would have been well played from a writing standpoint.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

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This would've been much better, I agree. The entirety of UT felt hard to enjoy due to how transparent and fake the deaths were. "here's a device to bring us back, but dont use it hehe!!!" get real. Then the completely out of character moment from Emet. It didn't feel realistic in the context of everything that came before.

I disagree on the whole "storys need to be focused on emotion before anything else" take above the Ryu. When that happens, you get plots full of holes just to try and drag emotions out of the audience. It needs to make sense, logically, first and foremost, and then you can start adding layers of depth and intricates to incite said emotions. In context of XIV entire plot, it's like, a pretty good story that ebbs and flows in quality but is mostly rather consistent outside of a few areas, and then all of a sudden it's "LOOK AT THE SAD KITTEN AWWW" and a man in front of the stage raises a "Now Cry" sign in front of the audience. It just felt.... gross. I've said it a million times before but you can sum up EW in three words. "Convenient, Contrived, and Cheap".

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This would have been an excellent approach. I still would have said "dangit, I thought I was finally rid of at least one of them!" but it still would have been well played from a writing standpoint.

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Even I who don't necessarily want to be rid of any of them agree with Ryu there. Because the execution was just a mess imo. Okay, sure, you want to provide shock and tension in the last area, but it's so corny, what you're doing is so obvious that I couldn't quite take it seriously. And Y'shtola outright admitting there's a way to bring everyone back just makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Even I who don't necessarily want to be rid of any of them agree with Ryu there. Because the execution was just a mess imo. Okay, sure, you want to provide shock and tension in the last area, but it's so corny, what you're doing is so obvious that I couldn't quite take it seriously. And Y'shtola outright admitting there's a way to bring everyone back just makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

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There really wasn't much point to any of it. Thancred's "death" was the one that was the least forced. If they were going to commit to one, that would have been the one to go with. I don't mind Thancred, but I think that would have been an excellent place and time to send him off. He would have gone down swinging. A good death for him as a character and a gunbreaker to boot.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

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so you think that Ultima Thule would have had just as much weight if the Scions hadn't given themselves to fight despair to pave the way for the WoL to get to Metion? I can understand you not enjoying Ultima Thule, I can't understand you just out right ignoring the whole point of why they "sacrificed" themselves.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

so you think that Ultima Thule would have had just as much weight if the Scions hadn't given themselves to fight despair to pave the way for the WoL to get to Metion? I can understand you not enjoying Ultima Thule, I can't understand you just out right ignoring the whole point of why they "sacrificed" themselves.

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You know darn well I didn't say that, go read it again before being snide.

God you're so irritating! You take things out of context and trash on people's post to make them look bad.

I SAID THE EXECUTION WAS BAD

not that the idea itself was bad

I SAID THAT THEY MADE IT TOO OBVIOUS

not that they shouldn't have sacrifices to begin with

DO YA GET IT DO YA GET IT???

I'd just like balanced storytelling. It wasn't the Scions who drew me into this game, it was the Ascians and the Garleans - especially when both were fleshed out further over the years. I like the Voidsent as well.

A not insignificant amount of us played or play other MMO's. Yoshi-P claims to be a fan of World of Warcraft but I don't see it. I have many complaints about the direction WoW took but much like TESO does it at least bothers to throw more of a bone to fans of non-playable factions and villains/antagonists.

Endwalker would have been fine if it killed off one or two of the Scions and remained consistent in the lines in the sand it had drawn as to what is and is not acceptable when it comes to morality.

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

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This was honestly one of the only things that truly made sense to me. A being fueled 95% by emotion just threw everything she had at us including the kitchen sink, and it accomplished nothing. All she had left was to cry, scream and flail. She basically just...broke down mentally. Now realistically, she should have really started to bring the pain in that moment. Just throw everything at us at once like Barbariccia, except with no method to her madness. Just chaos. Planets crashing, stars imploding. Pools of black tears everywhere. Now THAT would have been glorious to me. It could have been better, for sure. But for what it was it made complete sense. I haven't done the Extreme version of that fight though, so I can't really comment on it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd just like balanced storytelling. It wasn't the Scions who drew me into this game, it was the Ascians and the Garleans - especially when both were fleshed out further over the years. I like the Voidsent as well.

A not insignificant amount of us played or play other MMO's. Yoshi-P claims to be a fan of World of Warcraft but I don't see it. I have many complaints about the direction WoW took but much like TESO does it at least bothers to throw more of a bone to fans of non-playable factions and villains/antagonists.

Endwalker would have been fine if it killed off one or two of the Scions and remained consistent in the lines in the sand it had drawn as to what is and is not acceptable when it comes to morality.

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

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From what I've seen, the "influence" that Yoshi-P brought from WoW has nothing to do with the storytelling, but rather the gearing system. He borrowed from the WotLK-era WoW that featured tokens and badges (i.e. tomestones) which people generally loved, and one of the biggest complaints aside from the story that people bring to WoW was the move away from that kind of system to the e-sports M+ approach as the way to gear. It's the underlying gameplay system that he recognized was a huge strong point for WoW that he brought over to FFXIV.

And I feel the end of the final boss fight makes perfect sense. After throwing everything at us, including a mega-LB that we block with our own (which itself confuses her because she doesn't expect us to have dynamis power given how the Ancients didn't), she then immediately throws a second mega-LB that she feels should be absolutely unblockable, but we do with the help of our friends (Scions). She's just at a total loss now, which frankly makes sense. She's thrown everything at us, including the kitchen sink, and we're still there. She just doesn't know what to do and basically panics. The music transition at that point I also absolutely loved, and the last part of the fight is basically "the tide has turned". Meteion has no idea what to do anymore, and we have the momentum now.

Riveting stuff...

The only thing I like about the fight, besides how comically over the top it is and the imff14andthisisdeep lines she has, are the dead pan lines delivered by Thancred and Y'shtola (she must be doing mental maths at this point to figure out to track which of her cat lives she's on.) Really seals the whole thing for me.

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

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You can oneshot Yu Yevon. Orphan is weak to Death. Cid Aulstyne is a cakewalk you just melt. Meteion isn't the most egregious case.

I don't understand what you mean by "little stakes".
Do you mean the Final Days? Sure, that played out weaker than needed, but we did see the effects of it first-hand.
Do you mean her fight having no consequence should you fail? Because lorewise, if you had, the whole universe was screwed. And gameplaywise... I mean, it's an MMO, she's meant to be beatable. It's a foregone conclusion we'll win every time.

Plus, wasn't the point of her being "straightforward" mentioned by Zenos himself? "You've faced worse than letting something like 'despair' get in your way." Dread and terror are real, life is scary. But at that point Zenos was saying "this isn't the embodiment of hate, she's just an emo girl having a tantrum. I've caused dread and terror, and at some points, people stood up in defiance with hope in their eyes. You validated their hopes. What she does is cheap."

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You can oneshot Yu Yevon. Orphan is weak to Death. Cid Aulstyne is a cakewalk you just melt. Meteion isn't the most egregious case.

I don't understand what you mean by "little stakes".
Do you mean the Final Days? Sure, that played out weaker than needed, but we did see the effects of it first-hand.
Do you mean her fight having no consequence should you fail? Because lorewise, if you had, the whole universe was screwed. And gameplaywise... I mean, it's an MMO, she's meant to be beatable. It's a foregone conclusion we'll win every time.

Plus, wasn't the point of her being "straightforward" mentioned by Zenos himself? "You've faced worse than letting something like 'despair' get in your way." Dread and terror are real, life is scary. But at that point Zenos was saying "this isn't the embodiment of hate, she's just an emo girl having a tantrum. I've caused dread and terror, and at some points, people stood up in defiance with hope in their eyes. You validated their hopes. What she does is cheap."

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Yu Yevon is indeed the final boss of FFX. Not like we killed our own Aeons just prior to facing him, which as a Summoner was quite a moment for me, or when we killed Jecht as Braska's Final Aeon in a fight that when I experienced it was quite difficult. Orphan may be weak to Death but with the spell having a 1% chance you still have to follow basic game mechanics of staggering him. I won't speak on Cid as I've not beaten FF Type-0 myself.

Nevertheless, tension, stress. These are things that are ok to have in a final boss fight. It is ok for them to be somewhat challenging and in this case required a group effort with everyone knowing their job and what they should be doing. By the time we fight her after the fakeout segment of Ultima Thule it basically washes away all the momentum that was built up on the Source from dealing with the Final Days, which was helped in part by the atrocious second visit to Labyrinthos.

If my character's ego is going to be stroked, I'd prefer it to be earned through a genuine struggle - especially in regards to the final boss for a decade long arc. I don't play video games to self insert. If I want to feel good and accomplished, I go out and do something that actually contributes to the real world.

I'd point to some of the formidable enemies that exist in the likes of The Witcher 3. There's at least two major antagonists who cannot be beaten because they're simply too powerful for Geralt of Rivia to defeat. In one case he gets the choice to either walk away and led the antagonist get what he desires. Or he can confront the foe in question and escape after tricking him into honouring a deal. In the other case, it's a very powerful elder vampire who will simply kill Geralt if he chooses the wrong dialogue options. He's forced to use his wits and be persuasive.

There's a lot of ways in which FFXIV could set things up without resorting to awkward, childish flailing and ego stroking. It's not like the game lacks that already - it's everywhere. At no point is there any real doubt that the player character is going to lose. Even in seasonal events and job quests you know that if the player character is backing some struggling artist or apprentice mage or whatever then they're going to be carried to victory and succeed one way or another because the game seems to have an allergy to loss and lasting consequences these days.

I'd like a return to the ARR/HW style of storytelling with realistic, balanced stakes. Those of us who started back then are almost a decade over and I have no clue why the game isn't seeking to be a little more mature with its storytelling as a result.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

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Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

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This would have worked for any other final fight in the game, but Endsinger loses all the spectacle of its normal version in EX (no add phase, no tank LB, no fakeout, the great phase 2 music is unused.). It's just planet explosions on loop and one mechanic randomly stolen from E12S.
So IMO, it's even worse than normal.
Hades EX was infinitely cooler.

The main thing i was really upset about was the failed opportunity to use "you are not alone" or to be more precise the weak quest the implemented. FFIX You are not alone part of the story was an outstanding masterpiece in which the protagonist questions themselves and is supported and backed up by the party.

But the version we got was "walk up the shiny stairs"

That and Sad bird came out from nowhere and the fight was lame and thats coming from someone who has a meteion plush because i like her.

L

I've seen people defend UT by saying "you don't need to be shocked by the fakeouts, because the WoL doesn't know they will come back, and this part is about how THE WOL feel, not the player".
But that argument doesn't work. WoL and the player are conceptually the same. It's your avatar. You can be one of those players who inserts their WoL canon as a made-up character by you rather than insert yourself into the WoL entirely, but then you have the other reason the argument fails. With the WoL's in-game acting being so... non existent, it's hard to take the "loneliness" seriously, and not everyone imagines their WoL as being as emotionally fragile as your WoL.
I mean even if you just take what the game tries to force on your character for granted, it looks stupid. You have the Scions like Alisaie trying to tell you how you're supposed to feel, but you character is just looking at them like: :|

Moreover I'm sick of them forcing the idea the WoL has to mourn and cry over every loss, be it a person, a machine or a building, when they've been through so much shit they should have been HARDENED by it. No Ishikawa, I don't think my WoL is inhuman but they're also not going to get emotional when one of their Island Sanctuary mammets breaks down, like I'm sure you'd expect them to.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

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LMAO
Endsinger EX is the worst extreme in XIV history. It's been made a mockery by the raiding community since day 1.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Much pretentiousness do I sense in this thread.

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That's OK. Thanks for balancing it out with your absolutely nothing post.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

LMAO
Endsinger EX is the worst extreme in XIV history. It's been made a mockery by the raiding community since day 1.

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I know, but the map is technically phase 2 and fits what he wanted. Personally I'm not a fan of that EX.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

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That would not have been a bad direction if the writers wanted to keep key characters for the future. Sentai does that sort of thing all the time and if it's good enough for Toei then it's good enough for SE!

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

The main thing i was really upset about was the failed opportunity to use "you are not alone" or to be more precise the weak quest the implemented. FFIX You are not alone part of the story was an outstanding masterpiece in which the protagonist questions themselves and is supported and backed up by the party.

But the version we got was "walk up the shiny stairs"

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That part I was rather upset over. Like I can see exactly the sort of thing they were going for and it could have worked. But this game has so many characters over close to a decade, I didn't remember half of them or what their voices sounded like. That moment fell flat for me as I couldn't connect a lot of the disembodied voices to who they were supposed to be. Maybe it hits differently for people who just very recently burned through ARR to EW, but as someone who was on and off playing since ARR launch I just couldn't connect them all and didn't get much of an impact from that moment.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

That would not have been a bad direction if the writers wanted to keep key characters for the future. Sentai does that sort of thing all the time and if it's good enough for Toei then it's good enough for SE!

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Unfortunately, Square Enix is known for their Kingdom Hearts-esque writing.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

That part I was rather upset over. Like I can see exactly the sort of thing they were going for and it could have worked. But this game has so many characters over close to a decade, I didn't remember half of them or what their voices sounded like. That moment fell flat for me as I couldn't connect a lot of the disembodied voices to who they were supposed to be. Maybe it hits differently for people who just very recently burned through ARR to EW, but as someone who was on and off playing since ARR launch I just couldn't connect them all and didn't get much of an impact from that moment.

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I don't know - even having played the MSQ in a relatively short space of time (December 2021 - end of March this year) that 'walk' did upset me. Mostly because, so far as I recall, the first and last voice we hear is Arbert's:
First: "If you need a push, I'll be right there behind you"
Last: "Lets finish this"

I mean, I remembered most of the voices inbetween but the fact that the first and last voice was Arberts..... well, part of us or not, he really was with us every step of the way.

The choice of line spoken by Hien was interesting though - I would've assumed he would have spoken the line he spoke immediately AFTER the one we heard - "We who yet walk the path should not think too much on the destination. When the hour arrives, we shall welcome what comes with open arms."

The one thing I agree with here is that the WoL is on a serious powertrip, at this point we're the omnipotent being that just dispatches of everything that crosses our path. There is no struggle to be felt, the only thing that comes close to it is SEs attempt to show the mortality of your companions (but there's still plotarmor for them). I don't wish for them to die far from it but I wish for the WoL to struggle again.

If it weren't for Zenos showing up for the Endsinger fight we would have lost because she has no honor and will not fight to the death, she will flee the moment she realizes that we overpower her and we wouldn't be able to do anything to stop her from doing that. It was very convinient that Zenos showed up precisely at that moment.

The post EW patches hardly feel like we're going on an adventure, we're butchering our way through as nothing is able to stop us. The 13th would be the perfect opportunity to have us defeated and flee the scene for once because we can't kill our foes no matter how hard we try, they'll come back but alas we had Zero to take care of that, imo she should've been introduced later down the line. I understand that we have to win in the end but it would be nice if the WoL would taste defeat again because it's been a while.
Currently I feel like Lunk from Cyanide and happiness...

I feel like they be a bit of a tad cautious of having the WoL be easily defeated as it could just come off like ran'jit a bit. Which was more a problem of execution than concept in that he felt like a repeat of zenos in StB among other things

Though i did like the final thancred fight against ran'jit as a big highlight of the msq in ShB

I feel that the "In the Cold" quest was an attempt to remind the WoL and the player that we do have weaknesses and can be depowered. We went from basically a level 82/83 badass down to the equivalent of a level 1, and were forced to to use what we could to survive. I'm suspecting that won't be the only time that happens. If I were trying to make things interesting as a writer and dev, I'd make that happen again at the beginning of a new expansion, to excuse a new leveling system for 100+, and to throw a twist where the final boss of an expansion is the villain in our original body.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I feel that the "In the Cold" quest was an attempt to remind the WoL and the player that we do have weaknesses and can be depowered. We went from basically a level 82/83 badass down to the equivalent of a level 1, and were forced to to use what we could to survive. I'm suspecting that won't be the only time that happens. If I were trying to make things interesting as a writer and dev, I'd make that happen again at the beginning of a new expansion, to excuse a new leveling system for 100+, and to throw a twist where the final boss of an expansion is the villain in our original body.

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My issue with this is that there were no lasting repercussions or long term effects of being depowered. It was resolved with essentially zero consequence to the main story, which makes it feel lackluster.

We'll see what this "big" thing planned for 7.0 is. At the moment the game is struggling to retain my interest outside of its PVP, and I'm finding myself playing TESO more and more on the side. Being busy with work doesn't help, either, but I think even if I had the time to spare... the interest is just lacking.

As an aside, for any interested in the story critical discord some in this thread set up/have joined for those who wish to keep in touch in the event of unsubs etc.: https://discord.gg/yRYnT28T

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Originally Posted by Lauront

We'll see what this "big" thing planned for 7.0 is. At the moment the game is struggling to retain my interest outside of its PVP, and I'm finding myself playing TESO more and more on the side. Being busy with work doesn't help, either, but I think even if I had the time to spare... the interest is just lacking.

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It would be cool to have a rejoining with the 13th caused by the scions’ meddling and attempts to restore it, as unlikely as it is.

6.5 will probably be as significant as the final days.