Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

https://imghost.net/ib/fswBXrxQGyPWQlx_1750623010.jpg
You got to love how welcoming this community is, first time i try to get into Forked Tower and from the start i get singled out with an emote which as i learned later was not for "coordination" but to mark ma as a "Do not revive" player.
My first message asking for a revive was when ~10 ppl were on the ground, all of them got revived but not me.
As for the second message concerning the toxicity, it was sent after everyone else took the teleport to the next area making impossible to revive me since i assume you can't teleport back.
Then i get accused of "sniping" someone during the pride month.. Why bring up the pride month other than play the victim when you are not ?
Thanks to this post i learned what "sniper" meant in FFXIV, so let me get this straight, we all pay for the game (subscription and all), we farm in Occult Crescent to reach lvl 20 and access the raid, but somehow you have to be in a certain Discord to have a right to play without being griefed ?
No matter how you look at it, not reveving someone in this raid is griefing since you make them lose 30k exp and a level, this kind of behaviour is against ToS so how can some people still defend it ?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Always amusing when a single anecdote is used to "prove" a hypothesis.

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That was the case for OP also. ;)

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The issue that is being overlooked is: why is it that so many people have negative opinions regarding 14-related Discords?

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It's not the discords they have a negative opinion of. It is raiders in general they have a negative opinion of, whom they incorrectly assume are "elitist" and "exclusionary".

I truly get what it's like when you've never raided before - you think that raiders are some elite bunch trying to exclude you. But then you overcome the anxiety and join a party. You go through hours, days or weeks to get that clear. Then you don't want to go through that progression again, so you make a [Duty Complete] party. Suddenly, you have become the "excludes people" bunch. But once you get that far, you realize there is no other way; you can't go through all that prog every time just to reclear.

But the game is actually so large and cross-world now, that first timers can often find a full party of people new to the content. So it works out anyway, and everyone is happy, except those who haven't overcome that anxiety to try joining a High-End PF or discord.

So yes, a lot of people will naturally think these discords are some scary elite bunch. If they garner the courage to join a run their opinion will quickly transform.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That was the case for OP also. ;)
It's not the discords they have a negative opinion of. It is raiders in general they have a negative opinion of, whom they incorrectly assume are "elitist" and "exclusionary".

I truly get what it's like when you've never raided before - you think that raiders are some elite bunch trying to exclude you. But then you overcome the anxiety and join a party. You go through hours, days or weeks to get that clear. Then you don't want to go through that progression again, so you make a [Duty Complete] party. Suddenly, you have become the "excludes people" bunch. But once you get that far, you realize there is no other way; you can't go through all that prog every time just to reclear.

But the game is actually so large and cross-world now, that first timers can often find a full party of people new to the content. So it works out anyway, and everyone is happy, except those who haven't overcome that anxiety to try joining a High-End PF or discord.

So yes, a lot of people will naturally think these discords are some scary elite bunch. If they garner the courage to join a run their opinion will quickly transform.

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Let's quit this "courage" nonsense, Jeeqbit, you're better than that. This is a video game, not the Marines. And anxiety is irrelevant to people who are trying to do this content, but are impeded first by the dreadful decisions of SE, compounded by the hostility expressed by some Discord groups.

As to "everyone is happy"... Honestly, mate, I think we'd get on IRL, but this Panglossian worldview directed at such an obviously flawed game is a little excessive.

Again, I understand there are helpful Discords out there. Indeed, when I started taking PvP seriously, I received a lot of help from a Discord server! It was from a general Discord hosted by a streamer. I went there when a handful of PvP Discords proved completely bloody useless, not to mention unpleasant.

If Discord servers wish to have a better reputation, I'd suggest they need to clean up their own houses. If they dislike Plebs vs Patricians mud-slinging, maybe they should reel in their members?

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Originally Posted by Watai

https://imghost.net/ib/fswBXrxQGyPWQlx_1750623010.jpg
You got to love how welcoming this community is, first time i try to get into Forked Tower and from the start i get singled out with an emote which as i learned later was not for "coordination" but to mark ma as a "Do not revive" player.
My first message asking for a revive was when ~10 ppl were on the ground, all of them got revived but not me.
As for the second message concerning the toxicity, it was sent after everyone else took the teleport to the next area making impossible to revive me since i assume you can't teleport back.
Then i get accused of "sniping" someone during the pride month.. Why bring up the pride month other than play the victim when you are not ?
Thanks to this post i learned what "sniper" meant in FFXIV, so let me get this straight, we all pay for the game (subscription and all), we farm in Occult Crescent to reach lvl 20 and access the raid, but somehow you have to be in a certain Discord to have a right to play without being griefed ?
No matter how you look at it, not reveving someone in this raid is griefing since you make them lose 30k exp and a level, this kind of behaviour is against ToS so how can some people still defend it ?

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And you can't just join a Discord to run the content like everyone else because... ?

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Originally Posted by Watai

No matter how you look at it, not reveving someone in this raid is griefing since you make them lose 30k exp and a level, this kind of behaviour is against ToS so how can some people still defend it ?

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I hope you reported them for that, it's blatantly against TOS.

Same thing happened in BA,

and it's funny because it still happens in BA... Even when you aren't taking a portal away from anyone else.

Yet the developers in their infinite wisdom, and 6 years of experience since then thought... "That's a brilliant idea, let's do it again..., but this time make it worse".

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Originally Posted by Astronis

I hope you reported them for that, it's blatantly against TOS.

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Yes, only those from the chat, other players were not reported as they didn't express any hostility towards the "snipers"(which paid tickets to enter like everyone else. I only used 1 ticket to enter btw).

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

And you can't just join a Discord to run the content like everyone else because... ?

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Why ? from what i see on this post, there are less Discord "elite" than regular players who just want to do the content they've worked toward unlocking. Also never received any Discord link when i was waiting for the Raid to open, or once i was in.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

And you can't just join a Discord to run the content like everyone else because... ?

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To be honest,

They really shouldn't be putting content like this in a public space in the first place, because you'll always have those that are just genuinely not as clued in as others as to how certain communities function, or why they function for that matter, so in a good chunk of instances people are ascribing malice when there is actually none going on.

Have had this happen a couple of times when helping friends progress.

Like, this should have been a separate duty just how Delubrum was a separate duty... Not sure what insanity was going on, but this is entirely on the devs tbh.

From my own personal experience, I have found collaborating with Discords running Forked Tower content a very pleasant experience overall. I’ve mainly stuck to Savage and Ultimate statics before and not really engaged with the BA/DRS discords, but I’m glad I did it’s made the process of organising getting into the content much simpler…

With regards to randoms who “snipe” a spot I sympathise with your situation, most of you are not doing this maliciously but you stowing away on an organised run potentially has several negative consequences:

1) You take the place of a team member who was on a vital Phantom Job (particularly if the team was running 1 Berserker or Oracle) which may mean the run is unwinnable unless people can flex or there are backups of that job.

2) You unintentionally prog lie by joining a run where they have progged far beyond you prog point, you had no way of knowing but essentially as one person can wipe the whole raid from doing some mechanics incorrectly you could be a ticking time bomb waiting to go off if you don’t know the mechanics and how to deal with them. I’m a seasoned veteran when it comes to high-end content and even I wouldn’t be ballsy enough to gatecrash a raid that is this punishing and requires intense co-ordination especially if I was fresh to the content/progging from the start.

It must feel awful to be left on the floor, but you can’t necessarily blame the 47 people, if you don’t know the content they could be shouldering an unnecessary burden of risk if they rez you and keep you in the mix, so I understand the reasoning behind it… if you should be angry at anyone it should be SE, they’re the reason that this content has created such a community divide and hostility.

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Originally Posted by Watai

https://imghost.net/ib/fswBXrxQGyPWQlx_1750623010.jpg
You got to love how welcoming this community is, first time i try to get into Forked Tower and from the start i get singled out with an emote which as i learned later was not for "coordination" but to mark ma as a "Do not revive" player.
My first message asking for a revive was when ~10 ppl were on the ground, all of them got revived but not me.
As for the second message concerning the toxicity, it was sent after everyone else took the teleport to the next area making impossible to revive me since i assume you can't teleport back.
Then i get accused of "sniping" someone during the pride month.. Why bring up the pride month other than play the victim when you are not ?
Thanks to this post i learned what "sniper" meant in FFXIV, so let me get this straight, we all pay for the game (subscription and all), we farm in Occult Crescent to reach lvl 20 and access the raid, but somehow you have to be in a certain Discord to have a right to play without being griefed ?
No matter how you look at it, not reveving someone in this raid is griefing since you make them lose 30k exp and a level, this kind of behaviour is against ToS so how can some people still defend it ?

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https://i.imgur.com/qwh3EiI.png

For full context, OP and this person are now targeting organised runs in a group of 5 (increasing the likelihood fivefold that shotcallers and organisers lose out on a spot - which yes, completely dooms the run).

tbf, it is much easier to get evidence of a bad accidental snipe in Forked Tower, when you keep accidently sniping it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

https://i.imgur.com/qwh3EiI.png

For full context, OP and this person are now targeting organised runs in a group of 5 (increasing the likelihood fivefold that shotcallers and organisers lose out on a spot - which yes, completely dooms the run).

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Just as SE intended.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

https://i.imgur.com/qwh3EiI.png

For full context, OP and this person are now targeting organised runs in a group of 5 (increasing the likelihood fivefold that shotcallers and organisers lose out on a spot - which yes, completely dooms the run).

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Sounds like the discord group FA and is now in the FO stage. Like creating random and frankly entitled animosity towards other players for the act of "sniping" is just going to create friction and make people despise organized groups more.

Also maybe the discord group shouldn't be running with a full group of 48 if they are worried about losing their spots. Like why not 45? Maybe 40 even. As the realistic minimum is 24 for literally towers. Have some flex spots if your going to have organized runs. Even BA runs have flex spots.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

And you can't just join a Discord to run the content like everyone else because... ?

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(Some people make it so damn hard not to be rude. How do you describe someone who needs it explaining even when it literally comes with a picture.)

Because the discord is likely to want you to get on voice.
Worse yet, with a bunch of really unpleasant strangers like that.
It's no so bad if you can keep them at arms length over a chat dialogue.
And that's before you get into all the logging BS you get with discords.

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SE should have made it so that the instance scales to the number if people who join at first boss. Then doesn't rescale again.
Every player you lose, fail to take with you, is a debuff.

XIV used to be good at fostering food player behaviour.
It's just hopeless at it now.

It's going to be amusing watching the content creators if there is a chilling effect on new high end content now.
They had a chance to set an example and make it work. Their cronies would have listened if they'd said "you make the best of it, you play with everyone in the instance, it's meant to be a gradual process as the player base improves.
You don't intimidate them into not playing.
you don't refuse to heal people.
You don't refuse to raise them.
You don't be a cock.
The majority of the creators that remain are just useless as ambassadors and rolemodels for XIV. All they know how to do is paint people with derogatory terms like progliar, and sniper, and incite people to look after themselves and set up tribes and F (insert needles derogatory term for someone just trying to play the game) over.
Yoshi was so lucky to have Zepla.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

https://i.imgur.com/qwh3EiI.png

For full context, OP and this person are now targeting organised runs in a group of 5 (increasing the likelihood fivefold that shotcallers and organisers lose out on a spot - which yes, completely dooms the run).

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No specific run has any particular entitlement to actually clear or even progress.
You get who you get. You make the best of it.
Today is someone else's progress. Tomorrow is yours.
That's good it was supposed to be.
The player base gets better.
The consistency gets better.
And if the instance allows 48 and only bodychecks for 24, then that starts to become quite realistic. That problem People are no longer a problem because they can be carried into one day they can do the carrying.
But these discords are selfish "everything needs to be to my benefit now. Everything"

Creators, your useless. Absolutely useless.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Sounds like the discord group FA and is now in the FO stage. Like creating random and frankly entitled animosity towards other players for the act of "sniping" is just going to create friction and make people despise organized groups more.

Also maybe the discord group shouldn't be running with a full group of 48 if they are worried about losing their spots. Like why not 45? Maybe 40 even. As the realistic minimum is 24 for literally towers. Have some flex spots if your going to have organized runs. Even BA runs have flex spots.

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I think you don't seem to appreciate how high the demand is for prog/first clear runs. These runs fill very quickly and the subcommunities have all grown substantially over the past week - entirely through word of mouth.

I personally think objecting to targeted behaviour like this is entirely reasonable, and not entitled. In almost every case I've witnessed, a normal player has recognised that jumping into the run can and will disrupt the goal of the group that's there, have asked how they could join these runs in future, and have been invited to the subcommunities. I imagine if they decided to go in anyway, ragebait, and then smear us on an internet forum, we would not have had as pleasant of an exchange with them. Thankfully, these players were sociable, understanding, and joined us on future runs.

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Originally Posted by Watai

https://imghost.net/ib/fswBXrxQGyPWQlx_1750623010.jpg
You got to love how welcoming this community is, first time i try to get into Forked Tower and from the start i get singled out with an emote which as i learned later was not for "coordination" but to mark ma as a "Do not revive" player.
My first message asking for a revive was when ~10 ppl were on the ground, all of them got revived but not me.
As for the second message concerning the toxicity, it was sent after everyone else took the teleport to the next area making impossible to revive me since i assume you can't teleport back.
Then i get accused of "sniping" someone during the pride month.. Why bring up the pride month other than play the victim when you are not ?
Thanks to this post i learned what "sniper" meant in FFXIV, so let me get this straight, we all pay for the game (subscription and all), we farm in Occult Crescent to reach lvl 20 and access the raid, but somehow you have to be in a certain Discord to have a right to play without being griefed ?
No matter how you look at it, not reveving someone in this raid is griefing since you make them lose 30k exp and a level, this kind of behaviour is against ToS so how can some people still defend it ?

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Nah man, you're literally the reason why everyone hates snipers. Unhelpful, actively sabotaging, benefitting off of the organizational efforts of the very much public discord servers because you can't be bothered to pull your weight. Also, the pride month thing is clearly a joke - you deserve it for being a leech, not for doing it during pride month. You killed yourself with Meteor. That's a you problem.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I think you don't seem to appreciate how high the demand is for prog/first clear runs. These runs fill very quickly and the subcommunities have all grown substantially over the past week - entirely through word of mouth.

I personally think objecting to targeted behaviour like this is entirely reasonable, and not entitled. In almost every case I've witnessed, a normal player has recognised that jumping into the run can and will disrupt the goal of the group that's there, have asked how they could join these runs in future, and have been invited to the subcommunities. I imagine if they decided to go in anyway, ragebait, and then smear us on an internet forum, we would not have had as pleasant of an exchange with them. Thankfully, these players were sociable, understanding, and joined us on future runs.

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So provided the Plebs bend the knee, they will be tolerated?

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I think you don't seem to appreciate how high the demand is for prog/first clear runs. These runs fill very quickly and the subcommunities have all grown substantially over the past week - entirely through word of mouth.

I personally think objecting to targeted behaviour like this is entirely reasonable, and not entitled. In almost every case I've witnessed, a normal player has recognized that jumping into the run can and will disrupt the goal of the group that's there, have asked how they could join these runs in future, and have been invited to the subcommunities. I imagine if they decided to go in anyway, ragebait, and then smear us on an internet forum, we would not have had as pleasant of an exchange with them. Thankfully, these players were sociable, understanding, and joined us on future runs.

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You and I both know the content is fresh, its not BA that is now ancient and less people do eureka overall. The iron is hot in terms of content and people are trying to do that content. Running with a full group of 48 and then getting "sniped" is self-inflicted.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

So provided the Plebs bend the knee, they will be tolerated?

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I think we just have a difference of perspective here. As a reasonably social person, I have no qualms joining subcommunities in a multiplayer game and collaborating with people (they don't bite) to clear something. If you see that as a bending of the knee rather than just a normal process when something requires real collaboration, I can only hope that your perspective on community changes as you go about your life. It would certainly benefit you in the long run.

Effort of what Oblivion !? Anyone can do the raid, even if it is his 1st attempt !
You are the f***ing issue : "your" community doesn't want to play with randoms or players with few levels !

We will continue to try the raid. We are free to go in, to do the attempts ! We paid to play in FFXIV. And we will continue to try the raid, with others, even if Ego-man and your "group" doesn't want. Enough of harassement and toxic players

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

[...]If Discord servers wish to have a better reputation, I'd suggest they need to clean up their own houses. If they dislike Plebs vs Patricians mud-slinging, maybe they should reel in their members?

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Now that is the hard part. There's not a small subset of the playerbase who would pardon some... questionable behavior just because they did 'something good'. Some would pardon because they think & states "I can't control them, they're adults". While that is logically sound, it really doesn't inspire confidence in term of discouraging people from continuing said questionable behaviors.

It is what it is.. lol.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I think we just have a difference of perspective here. As a reasonably social person, I have no qualms joining subcommunities in a multiplayer game and collaborating with people (they don't bite) to clear something. If you see that as a bending of the knee rather than just a normal process when something requires real collaboration, I can only hope that your perspective on community changes as you go about your life. It would certainly benefit you in the long run.

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Cannot upvote this enough. It's like, you shouldn't do everything just because you can, you know? If I were to intrude on a soccer game on a public soccer court, I'd still be the asshole, and that is literally that the snipers are doing. The most recent one did write about how they never got a discord invite - that's because they already sniped, and by doing so have lost the right to any goodwill from other players.

e/: All the sniping leeches are free to try and make their own run with snipers only. You will prog like everyone else on the (very much public) discords did, and you will fail miserably because you never felt the need to organize since you could leech off of players who actually put in the effort. I don't care if we pay the same sub, 48 people's needs do indeed trump yours when you can literally join a discord.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Except while OC was marketed to all, FT was specifically mentioned to be a challenging piece of content that will require you to have certain phantom jobs to progress and clear

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Nowhere was this mentioned, they were completely silent on the raid's difficulty all the way to release. The only thing we were told was that it would have an entry system similar to BA. The general assumption was that it would be on par with CLL/DR/Dalriada. And even now the difficulty is not advertised as such in the game itself, which is odd considering BA, which is hella easier than FT, gives a VERY BIG warning that it's intended to be challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Pierllos

Effort of what Oblivion !? Anyone can do the raid, even if it is his 1st attempt !
You are the f***ing issue : "your" community doesn't want to play with randoms or players with few levels !

We will continue to try the raid. We are free to go in, to do the attempts ! We paid to play in FFXIV. And we will continue to try the raid, with others, even if Ego-man and your "group" doesn't want. Enough of harassement and toxic players

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I mean, feel free to continue your bizarre crusade against Rinon. I wasn't in the run you sniped and have never done Forked Tower with Rinon - but your feud with him has an impact on the attitudes to groups that are helping people actually clear this content and want to actually be welcoming to people.

The very "randoms" you feel like you are advocating for learn that this content requires organisation to clear and join subcommunities to clear it. This is called normal behaviour. You're peddling the narrative that all groups are unwelcoming and elitist when all you're showing here is that you are deliberately sniping Rinon's specific group, ragebaiting while in the Tower, and then smearing all organised groups on the forums.

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

Nowhere was this mentioned, they were completely silent on the raid's difficulty all the way to release. The only thing we were told was that it would have an entry system similar to BA. Up until release people were still hopeful that it would be on par with CLL/DR/Dalriada.

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I beleve it was during one of the 7.2 live letters that certai phanton jobs would be needed to clear the content or you wouldn't get that far.

Also the tankbusters in forked hurt as much as they do in ultimate.

I think if anything, this is indicative that SE should consider making a linkshell/FC esque system to organise public stuff fully ingame, akin to the Raid Planner they are currently developing.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I mean, feel free to continue your bizarre crusade against Rinon. I wasn't in the run you sniped and have never done Forked Tower with Rinon - but your feud with him has an impact on the attitudes to groups that are helping people actually clear this content and want to actually be welcoming to people.

The very "randoms" you feel like you are advocating for learn that this content requires organisation to clear and join subcommunities to clear it. This is called normal behaviour. You're peddling the narrative that all groups are unwelcoming and elitist when all you're showing here is that you are deliberately sniping Rinon's specific group, ragebaiting while in the Tower, and then smearing all organised groups on the forums.

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Stop say i do a crusade xD I could be an another player it will be the same issue and conclusion if another did this too. Here it is the second time that Rinnon community do that so it is the problem here

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I think we just have a difference of perspective here. As a reasonably social person, I have no qualms joining subcommunities in a multiplayer game and collaborating with people (they don't bite) to clear something. If you see that as a bending of the knee rather than just a normal process when something requires real collaboration, I can only hope that your perspective on community changes as you go about your life. It would certainly benefit you in the long run.

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Perception is central to this, yes.

The issue, however, is the ability of many Discord groups to understand how their words and actions impact how they are perceived.

To give a topical example, the arrogance and gall of anyone would would tell someone that they need to change their view of community to lead a better life is... I mean, you may not understand why you're perceived as hate-filled, self-obsessed elitists, but I certainly can.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

https://i.imgur.com/qwh3EiI.png

For full context, OP and this person are now targeting organised runs in a group of 5 (increasing the likelihood fivefold that shotcallers and organisers lose out on a spot - which yes, completely dooms the run).

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System of a Down would be proud of your toxicity level man. According to you a group whomever it might be, wanting to discover/join/clear content in game is "targeting" ?
How would i know if X person is here and their story with teammates Linkshell members ?
How do you "target" a specific Occult Crescent ?
How do you "target" by being in the first 10 people who joined this OC session ?
How do you make sense ?

Stop thinking you are the center of the universe and get a grip.
We are all players, we are all equals in terms of "rights" to join a raid.
First time i try to discover a raid, i use 1 scroll and i'm a "sniper" ? Get real and stop acting like a victim, people like YOU trying to make the content available only to your Discord sect ARE the bullies.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

Nah man, you're literally the reason why everyone hates snipers. Unhelpful, actively sabotaging, benefitting off of the organizational efforts of the very much public discord servers because you can't be bothered to pull your weight. Also, the pride month thing is clearly a joke - you deserve it for being a leech, not for doing it during pride month. You killed yourself with Meteor. That's a you problem.

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"Please Square Enix senpai, help me and my friends keep the content for ourselves."
Unhelpful ? As a healer ? Might be true considering how healers are "optionnal" in savage.
Actively sabotaging ? I'm doing the fight for the first time.
Benefitting off of what ? The salty flavour of your sweat and tears on the floor of the first boss ?
I killed myself with Meteor ? So strange since i died from the boss attack while having full life and a bit of shield left, were you really in this raid or are you just here to bully with your buddies ?
That's my problem ? In a raid of 8, 24 or 48 players, everyone make mistakes yet you guys are the only ones never reviving someone, once the new Jeuno raid releases i hope you never get revived too.

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Originally Posted by Pierllos

Stop say i do a crusade xD I could be an another player it will be the same issue and conclusion if we did this too. Here it is the second time that Rinnon community do that so it is the problem here

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It's very impressive that you happened to drop into the same instance as Rinon's group on two entirely separate occasions, honestly. It's already difficult enough for the 48 people to get into an instance together, so to manage to follow them on two occasions is genuinely remarkable. I can't think about how crazy that coincidence is. There's just no conceivable way to know when a well known content creator would be going into the instance, after all.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

It's very impressive that you happened to drop into the same instance as Rinon's group on two entirely separate occasions, honestly. It's already difficult enough for the 48 people to get into an instance together, so to manage to follow them on two occasions is genuinely remarkable. I can't think about how crazy that coincidence is. There's just no conceivable way to know when a well known content creator would be going into the instance, after all.

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Look on the bright side! This doubtless produces more monetizable Twitch and YouTube content. At least up until the point where the inevitable FFXIV account bans start getting handed out.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

It's very impressive that you happened to drop into the same instance as Rinon's group on two entirely separate occasions, honestly. It's already difficult enough for the 48 people to get into an instance together, so to manage to follow them on two occasions is genuinely remarkable. I can't think about how crazy that coincidence is. There's just no conceivable way to know when a well known content creator would be going into the instance, after all.

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What a joke.
Hey come on ! Soon you will claim that my group try to search Rinnon group and shutdown the raid ?
We want to do the raid too. Even if your king is here. We are just players in Chaos who want to play. If it is a problem for you, it is not for me to play with others.

Is it a TOS infraction to enter in the raid when your group is here ?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Perception is central to this, yes.

The issue, however, is the ability of many Discord groups to understand how their words and actions impact how they are perceived.

To give a topical example, the arrogance and gall of anyone would would tell someone that they need to change their view of community to lead a better life is... I mean, you may not understand why you're perceived as hate-filled, self-obsessed elitists, but I certainly can.

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I'm not telling you to change anything or that you need to change anything. I get that it's more convenient to reply to an arrogant statement, but in order to engage in a conversation with me you actually have to respond to the words I'm actually saying.

Feel free to organise your own run with equally uncooperative players such as yourself, Pierllos, but stop griefing others. You're not pulling your weight. If you dunno why risking sniping the only Berserker/Oracle/shotcallers is bad, then you shouldn't be in the raid. You should be either organizing an impromptu run in-instance with like-minded people or join a discord newbie run. Not actively leech off of competent players.

/e: If English is the issue, there's French runs, too. And German ones.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I beleve it was during one of the 7.2 live letters that certai phanton jobs would be needed to clear the content or you wouldn't get that far.

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Yes, and they also stated that it would have rez restrictions of some sort. But the actual difficulty in the usual context was never specified. Up until release many people were still holding out that it would be on par with CLL/DR/Dal, at worst on par with BA.

Yeah, but most premades tell the snipers why they should step off. If they don't, that's them willfully sabotaging others.

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

Nowhere was this mentioned, they were completely silent on the raid's difficulty all the way to release.

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I literally said this in the very next line.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

The major issue here is that they only mentioned this in the Live Letter, nowhere in game do they mention that this is challenging content, they only tell you in game that clearing is optional, not that it's hard.

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And that's the problem, they talk about it outside of the game but neglected to put the warning in game.

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Originally Posted by Neclord

I'm not telling you to change anything or that you need to change anything. I get that it's more convenient to reply to an arrogant statement, but in order to engage in a conversation with me you actually have to respond to the words I'm actually saying.

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I am not engaging in a conversation with anyone who thinks they have profound insights on how I can improve my life, particularly when they have never met me.

Physician, heal thyself.

I agree with everyone here. You want to try with randoms, leave instance and join one with randoms. EASY. Don't grief a group of dedicated players who are investing hours in learning raid, forming gruop etc.

This is precisely why im not running this shit until they let us queue in as a premade.
SE has been in this market for 14 years. Im over the excuses. The lazy planning, its messy and not representative of what the game should offer.

Im a few more mistakes away from leaving the game. SE is griefing the dedicated player base hard.