Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I don't know about some of the other people here, but I cleared every Omega Savage tier at least 8 times a piece, was server first for Twintania on Zalera, beat second coil as well before I migrated to another MMO for a bit. I have done Ultimate quite a bit before with a former static of mine. Didn't win obviously. I beat both the Innocence and Titania extreme fights within a day. Got both mounts within a week. I beat 24 man raids within a day. So, I'm speaking from experience here when I say the amount of endgame content is lacking.

I'm glad Ultimate is a challenge and all, but to be frank, I accepted I wasn't good enough on my NIN to beat it(not enough dps), and most Ultimate groups don't wanna take a SAM(my true job).

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Sadly its the people who were pointed out here that haven't even done 24 mans complaining that make people sour to the complaint. And thats why I think this complaint goes unheard honestly. Tho I do have a reason why it also might be abit off, gear. In order for us to get another fight the way gear is handed out needs to be changed. We can't add fights with our current gear loadout otherwise it'll get wonky. I think the BEST way to do it is to stop throwing us gear every fight. Like maybe the first tier we get 5 fights with no gear drops. We don't get drops until the next tier but that also means no drops on the following one. That way fights would last longer and your gear last longer too.

I admit might not be the BEST idea... but I think alot of issues we have at endgame is we're babied too hard. Everywhere you look - GEAR- and that in turns makes gear not as rewarding since everyone knows in 3 months anything you get is outdated.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Sadly its the people who were pointed out here that haven't even done 24 mans complaining that make people sour to the complaint. And thats why I think this complaint goes unheard honestly. Tho I do have a reason why it also might be abit off, gear. In order for us to get another fight the way gear is handed out needs to be changed. We can't add fights with our current gear loadout otherwise it'll get wonky. I think the BEST way to do it is to stop throwing us gear every fight. Like maybe the first tier we get 5 fights with no gear drops. We don't get drops until the next tier but that also means no drops on the following one. That way fights would last longer and your gear last longer too.

I admit might not be the BEST idea... but I think alot of issues we have at endgame is we're babied too hard. Everywhere you look - GEAR- and that in turns makes gear not as rewarding since everyone knows in 3 months anything you get is outdated.

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I was more thinking just make one piece of gear for any given job drop per fight. I'm sure if there were 6 or 7 savage fights they could split the gear drops up appropriately still. There's weapon, head, chest, gloves, legs, boots, earrings, necklace, and rings. That leaves 9 possible fights that can have one gear slot a piece. Hell, if they put trash in, they could just have certain accessories or high level crafting materials have a small % chance to drop off the trash, but put a reasonable amount of trash in between turns. Giving people a reason to actually kill the trash. Not to mention they could put in mini bosses and puzzles.

I'm also thinking of the trash turn of the original Coil of Bahamut, where you had to go on jumppads to progress. Why can't they have a boss where you utilize jumppads and go around a large arena? I'm thinking of something like the Soa fight from SWToR. They were obviously able to implement it in that turn in Coil. Yet every boss fight we get is a square or a circle arena?

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

So, uh, yes, you haven't done all the endgame content then. Glad we cleared that up.

Your patronising way of moaning about "casuals", aka those who disagree with you, is bordering on the obsessive. That nagging worry that someone, somewhere might be enjoying themselves.
This game is as it is, a majority who play recognize that and deem it worthy of their money and effort. There are, however, those for whom there isn't enough of what they specifically want and, to quote Yoshi P, they are encouraged to unsub, take a break, play and do other things etc. But then I guess Yoshi P is just a "casual", after all.

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Your version of end game content is literally synced. Its content that doesn't even give you full access to your kit and the rewards are so dated they have no purpose outside of transmorg. Hardly current end game.

The JPEG eyeroll you posted was far more disingenuous and patronising than anything I said.

I have no problem with the casual content, I'd just like more for the end gamers to balance it out.

Yoshi P himself has said theres been a lot more WoW veterans and other end game players who have come to the game - yet the content ratio we receive remains unchanged.

This doesn't come at their expense at all. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to.

Once again we've reached that "play something else" comment dripped in sarcasm.

Please stop trying to misconstrued things unconstructively, its very transparent.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

Dismissing what I said out of hand without offering an actual retort shows how weak your argument truly is (spoiler: it's really weak).

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I already commented on your only actual argument which was about difficulty. Some nobody on the internet telling me how I should feel is not something that's worthy of consideration.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

People said FF14 is inferior? I don't remember that. What's wrong with asking Devs for more meaningful hard content since we have so little right now?
This argument kinda falls in the line of: "Shut up, it's perfect, just go away if you don't like it". There is a lack of raiding content and people should not be grateful for what little they have.

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Careful - you're bringing logic and sound reasoning into this thread again.

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Originally Posted by Rachi

I'm assuming you must have already cleared all Omega Savage tiers and UCoB and UwU, RIGHT? otherwise there's your endgame content. (Ultimate still being current content btw till the next Ultimate comes out)

I don't get why people want to compare WoW to FF14. it's like comparing a dog to a cat in every aspect possible. They are both MMOs but their objectives and content are created to satisfy a very different public. Think of it as if you wanted to compare Manga and DC/Marvel Comics, you can't.

I played both games and know how to enjoy both without getting bored.

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Im curious about this. When you play Ultimate does it sync you down? Cuz if so This is not worth Anyone's time, if a majority of your kit is gone.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I'm also thinking of the trash turn of the original Coil of Bahamut, where you had to go on jumppads to progress. Why can't they have a boss where you utilize jumppads and go around a large arena? I'm thinking of something like the Soa fight from SWToR. They were obviously able to implement it in that turn in Coil. Yet every boss fight we get is a square or a circle arena?

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We used to have to do that in Syrcus Tower. But people do so much DPS now that nobody ever gets to see that phase any more.

Edit: This is also a mechanic in Alexander, and you can still experience it since those fights are tuned higher and are synced.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Careful - you're bringing logic and sound reasoning into this thread again.

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Oh my, I will try to sharpen my pitchfork before posting from now on ;).

Ultimately I believe for better and harder designed content, the Final team will need to deviate a bit from their formula encounter-wise (and maybe a tad battle system-wise as well) and stop babying people. The players aren't 8 year old but mostly teens and adult capable of recognizing patterns and having deductive logic. If there's something interesting in the environment like a pad you normally figure it will be used for the fight. From my few experiences in Savage, you only need basic MMO competency and knowing the basic mechanics (Orange AOEs = bad). The rest you learn as you prog as a team.

I understand the Devs wanting to have this MMO set up as a sort of "Home to come back to" type of game, however that mentality can lead to bleeding quite a few players when you follow the same treadmill for the same reward with new paint for years (it's not necessarily burnout, it's also simply bad game engagement design. Why is it always farming tomestones?) while also having FF14 feeling like a 2nd game instead of a main one (which means that when people need to cut something for more money, as the prices of everything are going up, FF has a higher chance to be in that list).

Players eventually notice the futility/boredom of it all and simply leave. They won't really be making "Unsubbing" posts in the forums either since those are often met with snide remarks despite that type of feedback being 100% more useful to the Devs.

Good challenges for the main type of content retains players. It ups the skill ceiling for players, even more so if those people decide to mentor. It is good for long-term health of the game to have a good amount of hard and engaging challenges.

blablabla, callback to post I made a few pages back.

*Edit: There was so much potential in the Deltascape V2 fight to add some environmental hazards! Whether Gravity was added or reversed, you could've added spikes to the place and shift those during the fight to make players watch their footing. Adding multiple levels like 4D chess?

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Originally Posted by Eli85

Forums are typically filled with whiners, complainers, and hyperbolic edgelords who overreact to everything. So yes, complaints about the loot system on WoW forums should not be taken seriously.

So you were iLevel 402, and you go into a raid that drops iLevel 400, and you're surprised that you don't get upgrades? You read that before you posted, right? Also, no one cares about heroic loot. Heroic is easily puggable. You should be doing Mythic, not Heroic. If you would have been killing Mythic bosses, you'd be swimming in upgrades.

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Actually it can be surprising, since there are people with better gear that have only done ilvl 385 content, simply because they've had multiple TFs. The point is, as the person you so rudely told was completely wrong said- WoW gearing is utterly RNG and you can easily be outgeared by people who are entire tiers below you. I don't expect to be better geared than people doing mythic raiding (though with luck I could have been, and I had raiders in my group that were without killing mythic bosses), and frankly I don't really care that people doing normal raids, or even people that can only do LFR can outgear me, gear grinding isn't as important to me as it was when I was progression raiding in Vanilla and BC.

But, while I don't care much for the gearing system in WoW- it's, exactly as she said, nothing but RNG meant to keep players gambling, and azerite to keep you grinding out an azerite level the entire xpac as the gear requirement constantly goes up. If you like that system, fine- but don't pretend that's not what it is, and don't call someone a liar for describing it exactly as it is.

Not sure if this counts as end game content, but I really fights outside of dungeons, raids, trials and etc were a bit harder. Like, I feel no sense of danger when walking outside any safe points and the Fates are just...interesting but not varied enough at all. Like, at least give us something like "Defend the Hamlet" or something l for a Fate

I agree we should have crash and derby.

We should have a dome with blitz ball!
We should have arena fights like in FF7 versus monsters in the golden saucer!
We should have a Job system like in final fantasy 8 where we get paid for doing so many missions a day and I mean job as in work.
We should have Halls of the gods FFXIV style!
We should have a claw machine in golden saucer where we win random glamour gear!
We should have airship PVP!
We should have time trials beating the fastest time on a mob solo and the winner at the end wins a prize every month!
We should have a train that works instead of paying heavy teleport prices we can take a train ride!
We should have a mansion filled with puzzles and clues and every week it changes and whoever figures it out first wins a prize!

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

We should have time trials beating the fastest time on a mob solo and the winner at the end wins a prize every month!
We should have a mansion filled with puzzles and clues and every week it changes and whoever figures it out first wins a prize!

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You mean only one person can win? I thought we were all supposed to be winners! D:

When people rush through the expansion over like a day or two, skip most of the content it offers, and then refuse to acknowledge anything other than savage raids as "content"... their scarcity issue is self-inflicted.

I like Scottzone, I watch his streams occasionally, he's funny and his blind min ilvl runs are very entertaining. But he's also one of the people who are only interested in raiding. He doesn't craft, doesn't collect mounts, minions, glamour or furniture, explicitly said he doesn't care about any story content outside of MSQ. In other words, no matter how much content there is in the game, he's limiting himself only to a small portion of it that will never be enough to satisfy him.

Here I am, still not done with my MSQ...............

I personally like exploring the game's open world, though wish it was more alive. :<

And besides MSQ dungeons and such, I really wish side story content were made somewhat more complicated. Like have one or two horizontal dungeons with traps, extra chests (and just plain enjoy the scenery) every once in awhile between the dozens upon dozens of linear dungeons we get.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Here I am, still not done with my MSQ...............

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I watched every single cutscene and read every line and finished the MSQ on the Monday after shadowbringers early launched.

So the not even done with MSQ yet either means you are simply not doing the story, started the expansion late, or playing less then 8hrs a week. The game has plenty of content for the weekend warriors, it horribly lacks content for those playing the game daily for 3-5hrs.

As for Scott he cares about progression content, which is what a large amount of people focus on. Glamour, Mounts, Minions, Gold Saucer, Furniture, PvP, the whole blu class. To be honest those are side/filler content. Great to have but they have literally nothing to do with progression in the game. I wish they would link them somehow to progression would make the content more worth doing then just playing dress up the whole time. Game needs more progression content, and preferable something different then what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Eden Savage is a much needed and welcomed addition, but 4 fights don't feel like enough end game content to keep a player busy. The game feels like it needs content between Eden Normal and Eden Savage.

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Something like story boss fights, but harder?
Extreme even?

Sarcasm aside, If you play an mmo only for the endgame raiding, then you are going to run out of content rather quick no matter what game you play.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

When people rush through the expansion over like a day or two, skip most of the content it offers, and then refuse to acknowledge anything other than savage raids as "content"... their scarcity issue is self-inflicted.

I like Scottzone, I watch his streams occasionally, he's funny and his blind min ilvl runs are very entertaining. But he's also one of the people who are only interested in raiding. He doesn't craft, doesn't collect mounts, minions, glamour or furniture, explicitly said he doesn't care about any story content outside of MSQ. In other words, no matter how much content there is in the game, he's limiting himself only to a small portion of it that will never be enough to satisfy him.

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That is because that content is not fun to some people, such as myself. Probably isn't fun to him either. You talk like we never tried any of it to and we would have loads of fun if we'd just give it a shot. That's not how it is. We can't force ourselves to have fun with something we clearly do not. I think the main reason I don't have fun with that, is it does not feel there is any progression or challenge involved, just stagnation.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I watched every single cutscene and read every line and finished the MSQ on the Monday after shadowbringers early launched.

So the not even done with MSQ yet either means you are simply not doing the story, started the expansion late, or playing less then 8hrs a week. The game has plenty of content for the weekend warriors, it horribly lacks content for those playing the game daily for 3-5hrs.

As for Scott he cares about progression content, which is what a large amount of people focus on. Glamour, Mounts, Minions, Gold Saucer, Furniture, PvP, the whole blu class. To be honest those are side/filler content. Great to have but they have literally nothing to do with progression in the game. I wish they would link them somehow to progression would make the content more worth doing then just playing dress up the whole time. Game needs more progression content, and preferable something different then what we have now.

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• Started playing during Early access
• Done all quests, watched all cutscenes, actually read the text
• Playing 3h a day

But yes, keep tossing around the insults simply because you can't find content to do.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

As for Scott he cares about progression content, which is what a large amount of people focus on. .

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No

/10charpost

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Something like story boss fights, but harder?
Extreme even?

Sarcasm aside, If you play an mmo only for the endgame raiding, then you are going to run out of content rather quick no matter what game you play.

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Story Fights / Extremes were released before Eden, which is why I said something BETWEEN eden normal and eden savage.

Thank you for providing the childish sarcasm we've come to expect from the casual player base who disagree without contributing anything constructive.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

The game has plenty of content for the weekend warriors, it horribly lacks content for those playing the game daily for 3-5hrs.

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That sure is an opinion.

I play the game every single day for between 6 and 8 hours (more on weekends and holidays), and have done for about two years. I still have plenty of things to do, and am yet to become bored by the vast array of content on offer.

Reducing everything you don't care about to 'filler content' diminishes it entirely. No wonder you are bored.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Story Fights / Extremes were released before Eden, which is why I said something BETWEEN eden normal and eden savage.

Thank you for providing the childish sarcasm we've come to expect from the casual player base who disagree without contributing anything constructive.

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And then, you'll ask for something between that too, its a never endind cycle, normal raid already are a between playground because Bahamut was too much to handle for the majority.

So what do they do ? trial almost-ultimate or raid not-savage-yet ?

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Here I am, still not done with my MSQ...............

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I'm not either but getting close, I just arrived in the last zone, and I played 40-45 hours a week since day 1 of early release. :)

On the other hand...

Botanist and Miner are 80 with all white scrip gear and HQ crafted(by me) items in other slots aside from offhand as my blacksmith is just 78..

Carpenter, Weaver, Alchemist, Goldsmith, Leatherworker are all 80, in all white scrip gear and HQ crafted(by me) items in other slots aside from some offhand as my blacksmith is just 78.

I leveled my armorer from 62 to 68 also.

I made over 30M Gil early on with gathering (highest I ever had prior to shadowbringer was 8M), which has luckily allowed me to upgrade my small house to a medium one.

I spent some time(not enough) to decorate my new medium house, it's still mostly empty except outside.

I have done all the side quest in all the zones so far.

I made sure to get all the Shared Fate to Rank 2 so I could get the faster mount speed.

I have leveled Scholar to 71, so my scholar retainer could hunt in new areas.

I made sure to send my retainers out as often I can, botanist and miner retainers are 79 now. My 2 Red Mage are 77, mostly due to me leveling slowly, they were often at max level because I wasn't leveling Red Mage and was busy with crafting/gathering.

I have leveled Dancer to 66 just from beast tribes quests in Stormblood.

For crafting, I haven't bought any mats, I go and gather everything myself.

I haven't touched Golden Saucer, Glamours, Hunts, Treasure Hunts, Decorating my house(damn I need to do that big time, can't wait) etc...since expansion came out, so can't wait to be able to get back to my regular routine of touching on everything a little bit each week.

I'm hoping to finish the MSQ next weekend. Then I can start gearing up the Red Mage, and the way I play that will take a few weeks. Also can start leveling other jobs so I can do all the Role Quest.

Obviously this isn't End Game "progression" content, but it is content. And FF14 is more about offering a vast array of different options than catering to a single play style. I agree that there isn't much End Game progression content, but that isn't new. FF14 has always been like this, they follow a very strict content release template, one which has grown the game consistently over the years.

I still think SE should start investing more in the game as it's getting more popular, and offer more content for each play style, and yes I mean more End Game progression content. As I said before though, if SE doesn't invest more in the game, then any content which they decide to increase will come at the cost of something else and this is why everyone is upset with people asking for more content because they know SE is unlikely to invest more, so any extra content means less somewhere else.

So here we are, 63 pages in, and people are still arguing to go do the other types of content if raiders are bored despite them saying multiple times those aren't fun.

I dislike the other class' playstyles, yet people are saying I should level them up so I can't be bored. Why should I force myself to play content I hate? So I shouldn't be angry about not having stuff I like?
The actual complaint here is a lack of engaging, fun and hard battle content. This is a valid complaint, especially for a MMO.

You can finish the content very quickly and I can understand that, but the issue with this is the lack of replayability from the fights themselves (as well, of course, of a lack of hard fights). The system is too rigid to allow deviation and it's playing against the Devs in certain instances like this one. There is so much more they could do with Raids instead of small-arena-you-can-fall-off-plus-boss (heck I suggested environment hazards for Deltascape V2 in my last post, wouldn't that have been cool?).

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

So here we are, 63 pages in, and people are still arguing to go do the other types of content if raiders are bored despite them saying multiple times those aren't fun.

I dislike the other class' playstyles, yet people are saying I should level them up so I can't be bored. Why should I force myself to play content I hate? So I shouldn't be angry about not having stuff I like?
The actual complaint here is a lack of engaging, fun and hard battle content. This is a valid complaint, especially for a MMO.

You can finish the content very quickly and I can understand that, but the issue with this is the lack of replayability from the fights themselves (as well, of course, of a lack of hard fights). The system is too rigid to allow deviation and it's playing against the Devs in certain instances like this one. There is so much more they could do with Raids instead of small-arena-you-can-fall-off-plus-boss (heck I suggested environment hazards for Deltascape V2 in my last post, wouldn't that have been cool?).

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Honestly, I think you should just quit and go do something else. There is little reason to believe the entire format of the game will change at this point. If the game as it exists today is not fun for you then why bother?

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Originally Posted by Nariel

And then, you'll ask for something between that too, its a never endind cycle, normal raid already are a between playground because Bahamut was too much to handle for the majority.

So what do they do ? trial almost-ultimate or raid not-savage-yet ?

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That's incredibly presumptuous and very wrong.

I would actually be grateful and would be outspoken happily if we received anything that showed an increase to the casual/end game ratio of content.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

So here we are, 63 pages in, and people are still arguing to go do the other types of content if raiders are bored despite them saying multiple times those aren't fun.

I dislike the other class' playstyles, yet people are saying I should level them up so I can't be bored. Why should I force myself to play content I hate? So I shouldn't be angry about not having stuff I like?
The actual complaint here is a lack of engaging, fun and hard battle content. This is a valid complaint, especially for a MMO.

You can finish the content very quickly and I can understand that, but the issue with this is the lack of replayability from the fights themselves (as well, of course, of a lack of hard fights). The system is too rigid to allow deviation and it's playing against the Devs in certain instances like this one. There is so much more they could do with Raids instead of small-arena-you-can-fall-off-plus-boss (heck I suggested environment hazards for Deltascape V2 in my last post, wouldn't that have been cool?).

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Eh...if you're making this argument down the road (say patch 5.2)...I can start to see a claim, maybe.

...but you're making this argument when the expansion has been out for less than a month.

Let's look at WoW, since that was the example of the "best" here, right?

BFA released on 8/14/2018.
Uldir Mythic (their version of Savage raids) released on 9/11/2018.
Wait time: 28 days.

So, they waited about a month.

Now, back to FFXIV.

ShB released on 7/2/2019.
Eden Savage releases on 7/30/2019.
Wait time: 28 days.

Now, back to WoW:

Legion released on 8/30/2016.
Emerald Nightmare mythic released on 9/27/2016.
Wait time: 28 days.

Noticing a pattern yet?

The only real difference is that WoW's 'in between' prep was via Mythic Dungeons (not mythic+, that also was not released yet), whereas FFXIV does it via EX trials.

Both are similarly not a huge challenge to progression raiders, it's just a different format (5 people vs 8). (edit: oh, and WoW locked out gear on the in between prep to 1/week, whereas FFXIV does not).

Unless you want to count normal raids, of course...in which case of course WoW released normal raids 3 weeks after expansion launch....and FFXIV had the audacity to make us wait 2 whole weeks.

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Originally Posted by IzzyData

Honestly, I think you should just quit and go do something else. There is little reason to believe the entire format of the game will change at this point. If the game as it exists today is not fun for you then why bother?

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I bother because I love the game and I want it to be the best it can be. There is so much potential in the gameplay and the world of Eorzea raid-wise and to see it being unused is painful. The team makes cool mechanics for fights, I'll say it out loud, but if it's the same strict formula without changes (adding some 24man mechs in there would be cool no?) then people will get bored eventually of the same treadmill. Even a small deviation helps, and as I mentioned before, the content is already there for them to implement in raids.

I want to have challenging content! I want to have a higher skill ceiling for the community! I want to have post-MSQ hard progression! And I believe in the capability of the Dev team to make it happen!

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

I bother because I love the game and I want it to be the best it can be. There is so much potential in the gameplay and the world of Eorzea raid-wise and to see it being unused is painful. The team makes cool mechanics for fights, I'll say it out loud, but if it's the same strict formula without changes (adding some 24man mechs in there would be cool no?) then people will get bored eventually of the same treadmill. Even a small deviation helps, and as I mentioned before, the content is already there for them to implement in raids.

I want to have challenging content! I want to have a higher skill ceiling for the community! I want to have post-MSQ hard progression! And I believe in the capability of the Dev team to make it happen!

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Isn't this exactly what Ultimate is? Challenging content? A high skill cap? Post-MSQ hard progression? What am I missing here?

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Story Fights / Extremes were released before Eden, which is why I said something BETWEEN eden normal and eden savage.

Thank you for providing the childish sarcasm we've come to expect from the casual player base who disagree without contributing anything constructive.

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Well, Ain't you a joy to speak with...
So according to your logic if EX primals had been released this week between Eden and Eden Savage everything would have been fine?

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

So here we are, 63 pages in, and people are still arguing to go do the other types of content if raiders are bored despite them saying multiple times those aren't fun.

I dislike the other class' playstyles, yet people are saying I should level them up so I can't be bored. Why should I force myself to play content I hate? So I shouldn't be angry about not having stuff I like?
The actual complaint here is a lack of engaging, fun and hard battle content. This is a valid complaint, especially for a MMO.

You can finish the content very quickly and I can understand that, but the issue with this is the lack of replayability from the fights themselves (as well, of course, of a lack of hard fights). The system is too rigid to allow deviation and it's playing against the Devs in certain instances like this one. There is so much more they could do with Raids instead of small-arena-you-can-fall-off-plus-boss (heck I suggested environment hazards for Deltascape V2 in my last post, wouldn't that have been cool?).

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So the one thing I wonder is what will need to be sacrificed for this "extra" content? Or even just different. They have a formula that works (really, can you argue it works if this game is still challenging WoW for top spot?). Yes it doesn't work for everyone but for a large amount of people (regular subs don't stay regular if they don't want to keep playing the game) the game has enough and they're OK doing the same thing every expansion.

Something HAS to be sacrificed, the team has shown time and time again that they are working within limited resources (whether by upper management limitation or just sheer availability of talent we don't know) to hit a set schedule. The fact we have 2 debatably unfinished races (not genderwise, just equipment and customization wise) shows they're starting to fall behind with what they NEED to complete, let alone what they'd like to do.

They've tried different sometimes and we've gotten content that fell extremely flat: Diadem, Eureka.
We had ultimates and I think it was a tiny % of the userbase who even completed it? Someone have those numbers?

Sure more "endgame" stuff would bring more endgame type players, but what and who would be the cost?

This is most of the "themepark" players concerns I believe. What will be taken away from them that they already expect regularly so that another group can just get another .. something.

You can't make everyone happy, they're going to disappoint someone somewhere and right now it looks like they're choosing to go the safe route and disappoint the people who already are disappointed.

It would be tremendous if they suddenly dumped more resources into the game and everyone got stuff, but I don't think that's gonna happen to a 6/9 year old game.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

Isn't this exactly what Ultimate is? Challenging content? A high skill cap? Post-MSQ hard progression? What am I missing here?

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You're right that Ultimate is all those things. To me that piece of content is total end-game, but that's also what it is: a piece. While I don't wish to have 8-man at Ultimate level necessarily, I do wish for more of it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

So the one thing I wonder is what will need to be sacrificed for this "extra" content? Or even just different. They have a formula that works (really, can you argue it works if this game is still challenging WoW for top spot?). Yes it doesn't work for everyone but for a large amount of people (regular subs don't stay regular if they don't want to keep playing the game) the game has enough and they're OK doing the same thing every expansion.

Something HAS to be sacrificed, the team has shown time and time again that they are working within limited resources (whether by upper management limitation or just sheer availability of talent we don't know) to hit a set schedule. The fact we have 2 debatably unfinished races (not genderwise, just equipment and customization wise) shows they're starting to fall behind with what they NEED to complete, let alone what they'd like to do.

They've tried different sometimes and we've gotten content that fell extremely flat: Diadem, Eureka.
We had ultimates and I think it was a tiny % of the userbase who even completed it? Someone have those numbers?

Sure more "endgame" stuff would bring more endgame type players, but what and who would be the cost?

This is most of the "themepark" players concerns I believe. What will be taken away from them that they already expect regularly so that another group can just get another .. something.

You can't make everyone happy, they're going to disappoint someone somewhere and right now it looks like they're choosing to go the safe route and disappoint the people who already are disappointed.

It would be tremendous if they suddenly dumped more resources into the game and everyone got stuff, but I don't think that's gonna happen to a 6/9 year old game.

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I don't have a rebuttal for it since I agree. Devs do not have the resources they need for a MMO this size and they also have quite a few things to fix (Housing is my biggest pet peeve, but also gender-locked races). It's a shame really, but the blame is on the higher executives on this one.

The formula works for sure, but sticking to the same formula for a long time is not a good thing to do in my eyes. You can stick to the core aspects of it but you need some variation. Of course, I'm not talking about reinventing the wheel every expansion.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Well, this certainly seems like a great money and time investment to appease a massive portion of the playersbase. They really should make one every patch at the very least.

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This is taking the extreme level of content difficulty, not the Raids.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4yslWQWAAA5fT0.jpg

Well, this certainly seems like a great money and time investment to appease a massive portion of the playersbase. They really should make one every patch at the very least.

How long we will tolerate LIMITED races, LIMITED classes, LIMITED content and even LIMITED resources, if people can't even complain without crowd of white knights, that will protect even the lack of PVE end game content.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

How long we will tolerate LIMITED races, LIMITED classes, LIMITED content and even LIMITED resources, if people can't even complain without crowd of white knights, that will protect even the lack of PVE end game content.

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Since you like to write LIMITED so much you should consider than in the real world there's something called LIMITED money and LIMITED time. Hence LIMITED things exist.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Since you like to write LIMITED so much you should consider than in the real world there's something called LIMITED money and LIMITED time. Hence LIMITED things exist.

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I don't know, maybe Devs should stop spending that limited time and those limited resources on content everyone hates (Diadem 3.0)?

*Edit before I get shredded for it. I applaud the Devs trying to make new stuff, but no one likes FATEs and they know it. So why would they keep making that type of content?

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

I don't know, maybe Devs should stop spending that limited time and those limited resources on content everyone hates (Diadem 3.0)?

*Edit before I get shredded for it. I applaud the Devs trying to make new stuff, but no one likes FATEs and they know it. So why would they keep making that type of content?

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That, is something I can only agreed on.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

I don't know, maybe Devs should stop spending that limited time and those limited resources on content everyone hates (Diadem 3.0)?

*Edit before I get shredded for it. I applaud the Devs trying to make new stuff, but no one likes FATEs and they know it. So why would they keep making that type of content?

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But.. the new fates work pretty well for people.. I just don't think they should have made a whole world based on the old fate formula.

I don't think this thread is helping though, it has long since dissolved into MMORPG VS MMORPG pickle waving and namecalling. The community managers have probably long since stopped reading this and only end up in it when someone gets flagged for abuse/manners.

For what it's worth the new mechanics they've invented for the bosses are neat, I'd love to see more time paused effects and although I HATE the "line maze" one, it certainly made that part of the fight exciting.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

I bother because I love the game and I want it to be the best it can be.

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Clearly not. You like your false depiction of what you think this game should be and not what it is now.