#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by SamLeens

I understand where your thoughts are coming from, but one thing still matters. Casuals bring in the most money. Casuals who don't have all the def CDs in the bar because they don't have room for them anymore. Who don't use a def cd bc the ilvl is so high. The casuals who only use a single healing skill and don't do dmg at all. They just don't care and don't see a reason to care. i'll be honest and say i don't know much about dds because i've never played them seriously. however, i always thought that dmg output determined "complexity".
i slowly believe that the content is more responsible than the healer class.

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Would it really be that bad to let these hypothetical casuals fail sometimes? Let them die once or twice. Maybe have a built-in way to nudge them in the right direction. Force them to learn at least the complete basics. If they wanna play XIV like it's a singleplayer story game, that's fine. But most singleplayer RPGs are way more challenging than this, even on story mode.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I mean, my bar for easy content being fun is surprisingly low. It's just the healers can't meet them. For me at least, while I do want a healthier balance of GCD healing and OGCD healing so that I do actually stop attacking and heal to some degree, if Sage just had a more active DPS rotation, I probably would not be here. If it felt like a true DPS oriented healer, I'd have shut up a long, long time ago. If it felt like PVP Sage, I'd have been satisfied. I was entirely content with Stormblood Scholar as well, for reference. I'm really not asking a lot.

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I'm still salty they dared call SGE a "DPS healer". When I heard that, I got super excited because I thought it would really be "a healer who heals by doing their DPS rotation" like my beloved Chloromancer from RIFT. Unfortunately, SGE is anything but

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Originally Posted by UnconfirmedCat

Let's work with this fact. Tanks and DPS objectively have complex rotations and it does not interfere with their roles. DPS and tank damage rotations have gone up in complexity over time, meanwhile the bulk of what a healer does has remained uninspired.

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There was an idea that SE would do something lame like giving mount rewards for healing.

As you know, tanks cheese this achievement by spamming Deltascape 3 unsynced, which gets done under 30s due all of them having high burst openers.

Now imagine doing the same with healers. Its wild to me how gimped and braindead the job is for content where healing is not needed.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

There was an idea that SE would do something lame like giving mount rewards for healing.

As you know, tanks cheese this achievement by spamming Deltascape 3 unsynced, which gets done under 30s due all of them having high burst openers.

Now imagine doing the same with healers. Its wild to me how gimped and braindead the job is for content where healing is not needed.

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At current gear levels it's actually ~20s. Fastest clear i saw was 16s. If people do not pay attention and someone gets frogged, it could be like 24s.
But healer mounts could be a decent enough incentive to get people into queues.

Boring? Ya, a bit, go redo the msq on solo healer... really try to do any solo content on healer. It takes twice as long with nothing going for it. You can argue that it's not that much better for other jobs, but it is better.

Pointless? If you have a semi-comepetent warrior or paladin in a dungeon... yes, basically. Gunbreaker gets a little hairy and Darks actually need some skill, but you're perfectly fine cutting them. Unless a fight requireds a healer for some benigh reason, they have been cleared without them. I think the higher the difficulty the more a healer is valued, but I would like for them to be equally valuable in all content.

As for player feedback about astro, the xiv developers do not have a good system for gathering and listening to feedback. They can make whatever changes they want and say it was because of feedback. I think this is an incredibly deep and complex topic that could be discussed more, but I will save it for another time.

I agree a lot of this stems from xiv's fight design, but they have little intention of changing it. They don't have intentions of changing healers either, but I think enough upheaval might make them budge if even a little.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Would it really be that bad to let these hypothetical casuals fail sometimes? Let them die once or twice. Maybe have a built-in way to nudge them in the right direction. Force them to learn at least the complete basics. If they wanna play XIV like it's a singleplayer story game, that's fine. But most singleplayer RPGs are way more challenging than this, even on story mode.

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Follow up on this:

What if the game started kinda easy, but progressively got harder as you got further into the game. Not only that, but if you were struggling with a mechanic or a concept they had some nice in game explanations of what is going on?

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Follow up on this:

What if the game started kinda easy, but progressively got harder as you got further into the game. Not only that, but if you were struggling with a mechanic or a concept they had some nice in game explanations of what is going on?

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It's good that you mentioned this, I saw something similar on the jp thread. As an example, during lv50-60 content, you will surely meet tanks and dps with (leveling) bad gear and inexperience.
But the more you progress and the more you level up to 90, the game gets easier. Not only the healer kit becomes more stacked, but simply we're being overgeared and do less mistakes. (ofcourse it implies casual content, not mandatory endgame stuff)

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Follow up on this:

What if the game started kinda easy, but progressively got harder as you got further into the game. Not only that, but if you were struggling with a mechanic or a concept they had some nice in game explanations of what is going on?

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That would be the perfect way to solve this, imo. I understand we need to onboard newbies who have never played an MMO before. You don't see me calling for Sastasha being hard. I'm really happy that reworked old dungeons now showcase some of the mechanics that become common in higher level content. But since there is so much time to get used to them, I think they should progressively get more dangerous with each level.

Again, I'm not asking for MSQ dungeons to be super hard, but forcing at least a little bit of a learning curve on even the most casual players wouldn't be that bad. You really shouldn't get away with going in as a duo into lvl 80+ dungeons where the tank never does AoE and the healer only spams Medica II (I have seen this happen, I was a DPS, it was painful to watch).

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Boring? Ya, a bit, go redo the msq on solo healer... really try to do any solo content on healer. It takes twice as long with nothing going for it. You can argue that it's not that much better for other jobs, but it is better.

Pointless? If you have a semi-comepetent warrior or paladin in a dungeon... yes, basically. Gunbreaker gets a little hairy and Darks actually need some skill, but you're perfectly fine cutting them. Unless a fight requireds a healer for some benigh reason, they have been cleared without them. I think the higher the difficulty the more a healer is valued, but I would like for them to be equally valuable in all content.

As for player feedback about astro, the xiv developers do not have a good system for gathering and listening to feedback. They can make whatever changes they want and say it was because of feedback. I think this is an incredibly deep and complex topic that could be discussed more, but I will save it for another time.

I agree a lot of this stems from xiv's fight design, but they have little intention of changing it. They don't have intentions of changing healers either, but I think enough upheaval might make them budge if even a little.

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Once again, I'm not denying healers can be boring and have little to do in solo/normal content. I am arguing against the assertion that they are fundamentally boring and pointless, because that's just not true in harder content.

The real trouble is that SE did try to address this exact feedback about healing being boring with Abyssos, and it went terribly for them- they increased raidwide damage significantly, and in response, healers quit en masse. They have little reason to try again only to face that backlash again. That said, I would posit that mit skills being upgraded pretty much across the board (for healers, tanks, and DPS all) might suggest they may be planning to increase raidwide damage again for Dawntrail, and all this doomposting may be premature. One can only hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Once again, I'm not denying healers can be boring and have little to do in solo/normal content. I am arguing against the assertion that they are fundamentally boring and pointless, because that's just not true in harder content.

The real trouble is that SE did try to address this exact feedback about healing being boring with Abyssos, and it went terribly for them- they increased raidwide damage significantly, and in response, healers quit en masse. They have little reason to try again only to face that backlash again. That said, I would posit that mit skills being upgraded pretty much across the board (for healers, tanks, and DPS all) might suggest they may be planning to increase raidwide damage again for Dawntrail, and all this doomposting may be premature. One can only hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

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Abyssos problem was the raidwide bleeds were controlled by the initial hit damage

Why am I a “shield” healer when I get 3 mitigations (for the purpose of a bleedwide succor and seraph aren’t mitigations because they don’t change the bleeds damage) and the rest of the party collectively has another 15

I had no control in abyssos no matter how much I begged people to press their mitigation, they never did but they always blamed me when the raidwide shredded their health

If you want me to be the shield healer give me the mitigation not give it to the SAM who’d rather drift it then argue with me for 10 minutes over just pressing it when I tell them to press it because I gave them my mit plan

Abyssos was the messiest and most healer hostile way they could increase healing because it gave healers all the blame but none of the control