Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

It's not the responsibility of others to make someone git gud

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Never said it was. It's not news that many of you are out here for your own gain and nothing more. That's your right to be that way. But on the flip side don't turn around and whine about bad players when you yourself haven't been trying to help mend that problem.

Saying "git gud" like some CoD frat boy doesn't change anything. It only promotes toxicity. Your mindset is one of the reasons you won't ever get official damage meters in game. Sad you don't realize this

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Did you miss the part of the TOS where you cannot tell others how to play? This is why people are so scared of offering tips in dungeons, you can literally be reported for offering advice (whether it actually gets punished or not is another story). Official parsers being added isn't going to suddenly make it so some random person can go off on you in a duty. If you call someone shit, it's very clearly breaking the TOS.

Like yeah, people can break the TOS, they already do, and they are wildly not the norm. But those people get punished and, hopefully, removed from the game.

Side note, if anything, it'd be hilarious to have a parsing tool added specifically to weed the toxic people out of the game.

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It's so weird that all these people pretend like the TOS dont exist just because it doesnt suite their argument right now. Very strange.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Never said it was. It's not news that many of you are out here for your own gain and nothing more. That's your right to be that way. But on the flip side don't turn around and whine about bad players when you yourself haven't been trying to help mend that problem.

Saying "git gud" like some CoD frat boy doesn't change anything. It only promotes toxicity. Your mindset is one of the reasons you won't ever get official damage meters in game. Sad you don't realize this

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Man the tone of your message says otherwise, many of you honestly feel that people should carry.

Nothing wrong wanting to play high end for their own gain.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

It's so weird that all these people pretend like the TOS dont exist just because it doesnt suite their argument right now. Very strange.

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They don't expect people offering advice to get better, they are trying to force a culture is carrying and shut up about it.

Not a single person gets banned for offering tips in a dungeon. You don't actually believe those people who go post on reddit and say they got banned for "no reason" do you?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Never said it was. It's not news that many of you are out here for your own gain and nothing more. That's your right to be that way. But on the flip side don't turn around and whine about bad players when you yourself haven't been trying to help mend that problem.

Saying "git gud" like some CoD frat boy doesn't change anything. It only promotes toxicity. Your mindset is one of the reasons you won't ever get official damage meters in game. Sad you don't realize this

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...90/997/d06.jpg

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Never said it was. It's not news that many of you are out here for your own gain and nothing more. That's your right to be that way. But on the flip side don't turn around and whine about bad players when you yourself haven't been trying to help mend that problem.

Saying "git gud" like some CoD frat boy doesn't change anything. It only promotes toxicity. Your mindset is one of the reasons you won't ever get official damage meters in game. Sad you don't realize this

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A few of us already explained why we stopped offering help. People play the victim and act like we just attacked them and their family, and you have people that defend them and say don't offer our advice because they should be allowed to play the way they want, even if it puts more burden on the other group members because the healer wants to cure 1 spam or Timmy the blm wants to be an icemage.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Not a single person gets banned for offering tips in a dungeon. You don't actually believe those people who go post on reddit and say they got banned for "no reason" do you?

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No, but the reception to tips is often cold at best. Sprouts usually are pretty open in my experience but non-sprouts that play horribly bad are rarely open for even the most honest advice. That's the kind of people that are labeled toxic casuals by some here. Sprouts are never the issue and they are usually quite good at the game all things considered. The key factor as always is willingness to learn and trying your best.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You and Ivtrix.

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Another troll obsessed with me (to the point of going off about me on the Balance)

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Never said it was. It's not news that many of you are out here for your own gain and nothing more. That's your right to be that way. But on the flip side don't turn around and whine about bad players when you yourself haven't been trying to help mend that problem.

Saying "git gud" like some CoD frat boy doesn't change anything. It only promotes toxicity. Your mindset is one of the reasons you won't ever get official damage meters in game. Sad you don't realize this

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My mindset is the correct one to have. Bad players have chosen to be bad players

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

People already have ridiculous PF requirements though. Stupid ilvl restrictions in non-parse focused groups, blocking certain jobs (MCH) from playing, demanding you have already cleared while the party leader hasn't actually cleared yet. The things y'all are saying will happen *already happen*.

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Something tells me we need to bring back Skip Soar or Disband again.

Or make PLD not block Magic anymore.

At least people had a reason to complain back then. Now you're being discriminated on the effort you signed up for but are failing to meet in raids, that'll be on you. And if you're in a dungeon and people give you a hard time, then see their response. Are they being helpful and kind to you? They're there to help.
Are they being jerks? Destroy them.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Did you miss the part

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Considering these arguments keep being touted around every other month in threads like these, I find that the majority of the community misses so many parts about topics in general.

That or they deliberately choose to either
a) ignore that these things do happen elsewhere just to fit their view
b) acknowledge those things happen but somehow believe them to be inferior vs the problems caused by parsing
either way, it hasn't changed anything so far.

This reminds me of Nuclear Energy. Easily a decent enough alternative, with several solid positive factors, but just because of disasters like Fukushima and Chernobyl (one was a natural disaster on an outdated and poorly maintained plant, the other a lacklustre facility conducting a test with inexperienced members whose inexperience and political regime doubled down on the consequences), people grow paranoid about it and are actively against it. Nevermind the actual numbers, protocols implemented since, or the technology that's since evolved to be better equiped to handle it.
Or planes. Where because of how disastrous a plane malfunctioning is leads to people develop an anxious phobia over flying despite the actual rarity of those things happening.

Bad things will happen.
With any tool you use.
The real question is whether the positives outweigh the negatives.
And on the internet where you kinda should have some thick skin anyway? Any negative outcome is entirely on you to handle.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

It's so weird that all these people pretend like the TOS dont exist just because it doesnt suite their argument right now. Very strange.

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ironically those are the same ones pretending the ToS is gospel against the use of 3rd party tools, despite Square already pointing out it's a gray area for rather comprehensive reasons...

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Why? Jealously. They simply hate other players achieving things and doing well while they struggle. Even if those other players are modest and don't brag, they hate that they even exist. So it's much easier to paint them as toxic and elitist and evil, then they're in the right and it's bad to be a raider.

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https://i.imgur.com/vymGv8Z.gif

That's just precious.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Yoshi has been pretty clear that its more than just harassment. He doesn't want to see ridiculous requirements in the PF like "you must have this dps number to join" especially for older content where you start to outgear it and expect people at the appropriate ilvl to match the dps of higher ilvls that completely out gear it. This was a common occurrence in other games.

The other side of things is he doesn't want to pointlessly add work onto the GM's. They have enough crap to deal with and the ticket system doesn't need to be overwhelmed by events directly caused by petty players like firemage and other like minded players.

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And this is the exact reason why I think that Yoshi P has the right idea. The workload of the GM's trying to police the players, key point here, INTENTIONS vs. their actions are muddled enough currently.
Can you imagine how quickly some people come crying on the forums about how they were unfairly banned because "If Yoshi hadn't intended for us to be able to kick players who don't parse a certain percentage, he wouldn't have put them in the game"?

Players will exploit any loophole. Just look at all the players owning more than 1 house, single player FC's, or windows shortcut to skip unskippable cutscenes to illustrate my point.
Fight club rules apply for a reason.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why? Afraid to see what WOW is all about and what it's become because of the number centric crowd. That video is a testamate to a game which sure doesn't look like fun and you wonder why so many people are leaving and have left.

You can keep pushing your number agenda but after all is said and done the DIRECTOR of this game doesn't want this for 14 and I can certainly see why after watching 2/3's of that video.



TY for posting that link.

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Yet yoshi p has been rumored to have used act, the devs are pro optimisation, have you ever seen the devs ui they play with in game? They are pro raiding.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Not a single person gets banned for offering tips in a dungeon. You don't actually believe those people who go post on reddit and say they got banned for "no reason" do you?

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The TOS says you can, considering how the toxic casuals play this game, that will be trigger happy with it

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Originally Posted by Delis

A few of us already explained why we stopped offering help. People play the victim and act like we just attacked them and their family, and you have people that defend them and say don't offer our advice because they should be allowed to play the way they want, even if it puts more burden on the other group members because the healer wants to cure 1 spam or Timmy the blm wants to be an icemage.

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I not talking about you guys. I myself have had people give me blow back for telling whms that holy exists. This is some are receptive, some aren't. I personally won't stop full sale because some people happen to be arses.

I just think it's dumb that certain folks here think all bad players are bad on purpose. "Toxic casuals". No some folks just don't know they're bad because no ones ever tried to help them be better. This issue is multi layerd

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I not talking about you guys. I myself have had people give me blow back for telling whms that holy exists. This is some are receptive, some aren't. I personally won't stop full sale because some people happen to be arses.

I just think it's dumb that certain folks here think all bad players are bad on purpose. No some folks just don't know they're bad because no ones ever tried to help them be better. This issue is multi layerd

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The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Firemage and don't lump everyone who might be pro-parser in the same category as him. Like, surely we can all agree with that sentiment even if we disagree on the parsing issue.

(And Ikara you and I don't even fully disagree on the subject anyways lol)

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

People already have ridiculous PF requirements though. Stupid ilvl restrictions in non-parse focused groups, blocking certain jobs (MCH) from playing, demanding you have already cleared while the party leader hasn't actually cleared yet.

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Yes, and its a problem caused in part by the existence of ACT and FFLOGS and in part by the devs including ilvl settings in PF.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Firemage and don't lump everyone who might be pro-parser in the same category as him. Like, surely we can all agree with that sentiment even if we disagree on the parsing issue.

(And Ikara you and I don't even fully disagree on the subject anyways lol)

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Why should I be ignored, when I'm correct? Seems childish doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Yet yoshi p has been rumored to have used act, the devs are pro optimisation, have you ever seen the devs ui they play with in game? They are pro raiding.

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I'm sure the devs, who are responsible to ensure that all content can be cleared by every party configuration including raids, are using some program to accomplish this.
You think they use an excel spreadsheet ?
That's literally their job, and they need the tools to accomplish it. Not only raids, as you're implying, but all battle content.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Firemage and don't lump everyone who might be pro-parser in the same category as him. Like, surely we can all agree with that sentiment even if we disagree on the parsing issue.

(And Ikara you and I don't even fully disagree on the subject anyways lol)

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I can see how it may look like I'm lumping you guys in with him. I'm not. I'm talking the toxic "gid gud" crowd. Not all pro parser. Lol I'm pro parser myself so that'd be odd.

And yeah quite a few us feel the same way on this topic

(Also yeah have to do what I did on Gamefaqs and put FM on ignore. Nothing positive comes from reading that stuff)

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I can see how it may look like I'm lumping you guys in with him. I'm not. I'm talking the toxic "gid gud" crowd. Not all pro parser. Lol I'm pro parser myself so that'd be odd.

And yeah quite a few us feel the same way on this topic

(Also yeah have to do what I did on Gamefaqs and put FM on ignore. Nothing positive comes from reading that stuff)

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Can't combat my points, and thus need an echo chamber eh?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Why should I be ignored, when I'm correct? Seems childish doesn't it?

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Sure I'll bite. Here's a snack for the troll. What science textbook says you are right? Could I get a source? If not...sounds like an opinion. We all know you have an over inflated opinion of yourself.

You are not the leading official on any matter of FFXIV or really anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Sure I'll bite. Here's a snack for the troll. What science textbook says you are right? Could I get a source? If not...sounds like an opinion. We all know you have an over inflated opinion of yourself.

You are not the leading official on any matter of FFXIV or really anything at all.

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The fact that I'm not wrong is what makes me right. But hey, feel free to attempt to prove me wrong, I could use the amusement

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Originally Posted by FireMage

The fact that I'm not wrong is what makes me right. But hey, feel free to attempt to prove me wrong, I could use the amusement

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F. No sources shown. DISMISSED!

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Originally Posted by Renalt

F. No sources shown. DISMISSED!

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I gave a source, you have yet to counter it. Do continue to howl like a dog though

Well this conversation has become cringey now.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I gave a source, you have yet to counter it. Do continue to howl like a dog though

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https://i.ibb.co/v45fj6X/giphy-2.gif

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Well this conversation has become cringey now.

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It was cringe before it started

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Originally Posted by Renalt

https://i.ibb.co/v45fj6X/giphy-2.gif

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Sure thing mutt

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Sure thing mutt

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On another note...

so when you gonna pop the question? She isn't gonna wait forever.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I gave a source, you have yet to counter it. Do continue to howl like a dog though

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You've never sourced anything in your life lol.

God this is turning into one of those mock trial videos on youtube with the overacted characters.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You've never sourced anything in your life lol.

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Again, you may try to prove me wrong instead of impotently flailing. Here's something small for you to start on, and if you can prove it wrong then I will never post of this forum again; there is no valid excuse to not pull your weight in a dungeon

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Originally Posted by Tyjacon

I'm sure the devs, who are responsible to ensure that all content can be cleared by every party configuration including raids, are using some program to accomplish this.
You think they use an excel spreadsheet ?
That's literally their job, and they need the tools to accomplish it. Not only raids, as you're implying, but all battle content.

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So you think yoshi p doesn't play the game himself and raids as well?

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Originally Posted by raelgun

So you think yoshi p doesn't play the game himself and raids as well?

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Where did I say he doesn't play his own game? He does.
He's even been known to PVP and gank other players.
Please stop putting words in my mouth, they taste bad.

Here's a thought: What if these logs only showed YOUR performance (your damage/healing/damage taken/abilities used/etc) and you could choose to share them in the moment, but otherwise they're gone forever when you leave the duty?

One of the issues with this whole thread is we keep arguing in absolutes, but we can surely bring this hypothetical into a situation that most people could approve of?

This way, no one else can see if you're doing more or less than everyone else (outside of the means that are already in the game) and can't attempt to harass anyone else over things. It'd in theory be purely for self-evaluation.

WoW is ---> that way. If damage meters for other people (you can parse your own as it is, if you want) is important to you, that game allows all the calling out you want. It's also a toxic cesspool of people who spend their time telling others how to play, rather than playing themselves.

For FFXIV, we don't need that kind of thing at all. The devs agree, and I hope it stays that way.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Here's a thought: What if these logs only showed YOUR performance (your damage/healing/damage taken/abilities used/etc) and you could choose to share them in the moment, but otherwise they're gone forever when you leave the duty?

One of the issues with this whole thread is we keep arguing in absolutes, but we can surely bring this hypothetical into a situation that most people could approve of?

This way, no one else can see if you're doing more or less than everyone else (outside of the means that are already in the game) and can't attempt to harass anyone else over things. It'd in theory be purely for self-evaluation.

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Without a point of reference 'your' numbers are pointless. What good would it be to know you did (lets say) 5,000 dps without knowing 5000 out of what, 5,000, 10,000, 50,000?
And if your 'log' includes the raids actions and buff alignments, the numbers you'd get would be skewed anyway.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Again, you may try to prove me wrong instead of impotently flailing. Here's something small for you to start on, and if you can prove it wrong then I will never post of this forum again; there is no valid excuse to not pull your weight in a dungeon

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Dude...I can practically solo a dungeon on my undergeared warrior. Who the hell cares if a new player isn't playing "perfectly"