[Suggestion] Fashion/Vanity Slots.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

Why do people continue to make this argument? Do you not play the game right now? This is exactly what we currently have because people care about stats and not the other way around.

The artists are not involved with placing stats on items, does everyone understand this? Unless SE goes the way of tiered gear (and perhaps even not then) your armor will never match unless you intentionally gimp yourself. With no vanity/appearance/remodeling system you will always have to pick between looking terrible or being terrible at the game.

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Nope it seems like you don't really read before you post.

Now you have maybe gearsets where color/style dont fit perfectly together but that isn't a problem. With a Vanity system without strict restriction you might get combinations that really look like clowns (santa/reindeer/pumpkinhead etc.). Either they make strict restrictions (no event gear, only equipable gear) or give us the option to toggle it off.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

Either they make strict restrictions (no event gear, only equipable gear) or give us the option to toggle it off.

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Or what? Realistically, what position do you think you are in to make these kind of demands? You coming off as a pompous ass is just a guarantee you will be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

Or what? Realistically, what position do you think you are in to make these kind of demands? You coming off as a pompous ass is just a guarantee you will be ignored.

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Funny how it works fine for those in favor of something though.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

Or what? Realistically, what position do you think you are in to make these kind of demands? You coming off as a pompous ass is just a guarantee you will be ignored.

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And what position do you think you were in to make the demands of vanity in the first place? It sure was easy for the "we want vanity" crowd to act like the oppressed group at first. But now that they have what they want, they see no reason to offer any sort of middle ground because they got what they wanted. Selfish pricks.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

that isn't a problem.

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/facepalm

I'm not even gonna bother. At least they know better than to listen to the dedicated 1.0 players at this point.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

/facepalm

I'm not even gonna bother. At least they know better than to listen to the dedicated 1.0 players at this point.

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..Which is exactly the playerbase they continue to listen to.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

And what position do you think you were in to make the demands of vanity in the first place? It sure was easy for the "we want vanity" crowd to act like the oppressed group at first. But now that they have what they want, they see no reason to offer any sort of middle ground because they got what they wanted. Selfish pricks.

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lol. Why are you randomly bolding your text?

You should read up on the difference between 'suggestion' and 'demand'.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

lol. Why are you randomly bolding your text?

You should read up on the difference between 'suggestion' and 'demand'.

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Nice ninja edit.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Ok what about an idea of like aetheric transmutation? We give crafters the ability to break down and extract the aetheric essence of armors under their jurisdiction and transplant that essence in to other pieces of similar gear. This gives reasoning and lore to vanity, keeps crafters relevant, if not increase their desirability, and makes it so that you are wearing what it says you are wearing to appease to the realism crowd.

Restrictions are passively placed due to an aetheric essence being able to only meld into similar gear. Like plate to plate for example. I feel like this is a decent way to appease everyone AND make it lore relevant while preventing the dreaded yukata tanks look

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K I'm quoting myself before the fighting gets the thread locked. Middle ground people!

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Originally Posted by Azurus

K I'm quoting myself before the fighting gets the thread locked. Middle ground people!

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Don't bother at this point. People only want what they want and don't like to listen to anyone with a fair or middle ground argument. As you can see in yours and my posts, no one cares except about what they want instead of something that makes everyone happy.

As I said, typical FFXIV community.

The point of a vanity system is to have more freedom over your appearance. If your appearance can be toggled off by others, the vanity system is pointless. One can change their appearance for themselves with .dat swaps or probably some add-on for ARR if they wanted to. That's not the point, and it doesn't necessarily have to be considered selfish.

However, the vanity system with pure freedom works better on some MMOs that are heavily about their social side, not one where there's an existing theme. So seeing people in event gear doing endgame content would be incredibly silly as a regular thing. Seeing people in shirts that look good but dont have nice stats on the other hand is perfectly fine.

So, yes to restrictions on vanity slots. No to toggle.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The point of a vanity system is to have more freedom over your appearance.

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You will still have this freedom, just people who choose to toggle it won't see it. How does that affect you or your gameplay?

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Originally Posted by Rubyxiii

The toggle appeases your desires as well, I don't see how having the option is stuck up. If you don't like having the option to turn it off then don't turn it off, why would other people turning it off ruins your "fun"?

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I assume some people feel a vanity system is pointless if they can't force everyone to look at them running around in Bikinis.

Personally I'm all for a toggle and job restrictions to stay even with vanity items.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You will still have this freedom, just people who choose to toggle it won't see it. How does that affect you or your gameplay?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I assume some people feel a vanity system is pointless if they can't force everyone to look at them running around in Bikinis.

Personally I'm all for a toggle and job restrictions to stay even with vanity items.

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It's a very simple notion really. The point of the vanity system is control over how you appear to others. The name implies it all. Vanity. If people have any control over how they see you by default, then the system is fundamentally flawed and pointless.

Most of the valid arguments, if not all, against vanity is regarding people wearing silly crap that will destroy the feel of the game, such as event gear or gear they can't normally equip. If they make it so vanity slots work the same as regular slots in terms of what you can equip, and make it so event items cannot be placed in vanity slots then there's no problem here. So no bikinis and reindeers in actual content. If people wanna rock the seasonal gear, they already can as town gear. FFXIV is not a game where you go dressed as a reindeer to fight Odin. I'm sorry, that should never be possible as a viable strat in this game, unless it's some low-stat challenge.

Oh, in before someone tries to counter with not being able to see if people are properly geared right away. Check them. Done. That's the most desperate argument in this thread really. It's much more selfish than the "people should see me the way I chose to look" argument on the anti-toggle side.

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Originally Posted by Rubyxiii

It's actually none of your business how you look on other peoples screen.

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I am paying for the character, so yes, it is. Disabling the system is, quoting you, just as imposing as me not wanting you to disable it.

Basically, it's a stalemate; What do you do against it? Stop arguing. Which I am going to do starting with this post.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I am paying for the character, so yes, it is. Disabling the system is, quoting you, just as imposing as me not wanting you to disable it..

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What you don't seem to realize is, toggle or not you can still edit textures (even though you're not supposed to) so all in all you really can't say its imposing on you in the same manner of trying to take away someone else options lol. One is basically stating:

"I'm making my character how I look and I'm forcing you to look at it."

The other:

"Do what you want, but allow me to toggle off vanity slots so on my side I don't see what you're wearing vanity wise."

Meanwhile the former is stating:

"Nope. No. Nope. You can no has, that ruins my gameplay experience if you toggle it off. No toggle for you."

The latter:

"How? You can still play dress up to your hearts content. If i wanted I'd just .dat edit certain outfits in the end."

If you look at any MMORPG..there's people who have done so many texture edits that having an in-game toggle would be no different, you wouldn't know any better unless they say it or you view one of their videos/screenshots.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I am paying for the character, so yes, it is. Disabling the system is, quoting you, just as imposing as me not wanting you to disable it.

Basically, it's a stalemate; What do you do against it? Stop arguing. Which I am going to do starting with this post.

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Reread my post if you still think paying your subsription fee is a valid argument.

Dat swapping is in no way commonly done and is not something to promote either. It's never comparable to in-game default options.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Dat swapping is in no way commonly done and is not something to promote either. It's never comparable to in-game default options.

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Did you ever play FFXI? lol. Due to the limitations of the system people made so many amazing armor dats that was widely used that even SE adopted for one of their armor designs in CoP.

Also, in a lot of MMOs people edit textures for various reasons, usually to create an "HD patch", which is the most common next to an adult themed patch. It is comparable because it's something that's purely client side that another player cannot see, not even in the same manner as MH/Head display on/off, this option only affects the client that turns it off, it doesn't affect another player.

For a community that says you shouldn't force things on people...seems like a lot are ready to force what they want on someone no problem.

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For a community that says you shouldn't force things on people...seems like a lot are ready to force what they want on someone no problem.

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They just don't want that things get forced on them, as soon its about someone else its fine...

Adding vanity slots properly doesn't force anything on players who chose to appear the way they do now. They aren't mandatory to use.

Some people just want to look presentable and or themed a certain way without having to sacrifice stats. There are some gear options in the game that look awesome but aren't used at all because their stats aren't desirable. An in game option to control how you appear to everyone is not even remotely comparable to dat swapping.

Are you honestly arguing that you won't be able to turn off seeing someone appear to be wearing a buccaneers shirt even though they may have a corselet underneath, or someone who wants to appear in full DRG AF even thought they use better gear options?

So long as event item and class/job restrictions are in place, I can't come up with any reasonable cause for being against seeing people the way they chose to appear.

looks good to me

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So long as event item and class/job restrictions are in place, I can't come up with any reasonable cause for being against seeing people the way they chose to appear.

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For me it would be fine with these Restrictions cause then the Situations couldnt happen what i wanted a toggle for. (I still think for pvp Vanity gear should be toggled off) But what do you think if they make these restrictions gonna happen.

Majority of ppl will start complaining about the restrictions cause they wont be able to use the gear they would like (cause of them i wanted a toggle). I don't care if ppl use style gear that fits for their job/level, i just don't want these Absurdities (Santa/Reindeer/Yukata/etc) outside of town when fighting or doing other stuff.

I highly, highly doubt they will allow event gear. They actually care about the look of the game, and considering Yoshi P's thoughts on vanity, especially when it comes to PvP, anyone who expects an unrestricted vanity slot system is in for a surprise.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I highly, highly doubt they will allow event gear. They actually care about the look of the game, and considering Yoshi P's thoughts on vanity, especially when it comes to PvP, anyone who expects an unrestricted vanity slot system is in for a surprise.

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You can bet whatever system of restrictions is in place, myself and other awesome people will slot the most ridiculous combinations we can just to chafe those who hardcore rage over it.

Jester hats and subligars. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Resheph

You can bet whatever system of restrictions is in place, myself and other awesome people will slot the most ridiculous combinations we can just to chafe those who hardcore rage over it.

Jester hats and subligars. Deal with it.

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Lol, so long as they go by those restrictions, more power to ya. You won't find me raging over it if it works out.

Regardless all of this is beyond the launch of ARR. I'm sure this topic will be discussed even more to death on the ARR forums after the game is launched.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Did you ever play FFXI? lol. Due to the limitations of the system people made so many amazing armor dats that was widely used that even SE adopted for one of their armor designs in CoP.

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I'm not ashamed to admit in XI was a avid .dat swapper (Textures only no replacing chests for flagpolls crap) I also made a good deal of .dat mods myself my Fomor Corsair was fairly popular back in the day.

There will likely be restrictions on what can be placed in a vanity slot. I doubt you will be able to use gear obtained through seasonal events.

The only problem I have with a toggle is, SE has a really great screenshot/hosting service on the lodestone.

Could you imagine how annoying it would be to spend a bunch of time to put together your ideal look to see someone post screenshots/video of you in your clown suit?

I mean, maybe that's selfish, but I also feel it kills any positive PR that might come from having a vanity system.

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

The only problem I have with a toggle is, SE has a really great screenshot/hosting service on the lodestone.

Could you imagine how annoying it would be to spend a bunch of time to put together your ideal look to see someone post screenshots/video of you in your clown suit?

I mean, maybe that's selfish, but I also feel it kills any positive PR that might come from having a vanity system.

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Would happen the other way as well lol. Besides we have people turning off their helmets, have a group of people in awesome tank gear and then one person wants to rebel out with their head or weapon gone. Y U NO HAVE GEAR?

I would really love a camera system (some sort of editing mode where you can choose angle and distances with ease, perhaps let it temporarily boost graphics for best SC possible - share camera options (someone sets up everyone can grab their own screenshot from camera), turn on/off vanity, on/off weapons/helmet). Could evolve it into a movie system later when they have time, good for fan made stuff.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Would happen the other way as well lol. Besides we have people turning off their helmets as well, have a group of people in awesome tank gear and then one person wants to rebel out with their head or weapon gone. Y U NO HAVE GEAR?

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I wish you weren't serious, but comparing /display head off to an entire set of vanity gear is a stretch.

It would have no effect on people who choose not to particpate in the V-system, as their gear would be the same toggled or not.

This really comes down to -forcing- other players to look differently than they choose. You have to look at our character's anyway so arguing that a vanity system is forcing you to look at a different set of armor...

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

I wish you weren't serious, but comparing /display head off to an entire set of vanity gear is a stretch.

It would have no effect on people who choose not to particpate in the V-system, as their gear would be the same toggled or not.

This really comes down to -forcing- other players to look differently than they choose. You have to look at our character's anyway so arguing that a vanity system is forcing you to look at a different set of armor...

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In the end you will never know how i see you, maybe i do some .dat modding and you run around in PUP af on my screen you will never know it...
And a few posts ago was the main reason why a toggle is not that bad. It's not the ppl that wan't to use the Vanity system to have a gearset that fits together it's cause of the ppl that will run around as clown cause they know there are ppl getting annoyed by it. As long you don't pay my sub it should be my decision if i turn it on or off.

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

I wish you weren't serious, but comparing /display head off to an entire set of vanity gear is a stretch.

It would have no effect on people who choose not to particpate in the V-system, as their gear would be the same toggled or not.

This really comes down to -forcing- other players to look differently than they choose. You have to look at our character's anyway so arguing that a vanity system is forcing you to look at a different set of armor...

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It is a different set. You get stats and properties from one, and looks from another. Those are two separate entities.

And yes, sometimes people /head or /weapon ruins a good cohesive screenshot (or sometimes its the other way around and you want everyone to have their helmets off). In 2.0 it will be even more complex as people can raise / lower their helmet visors and perhaps hoods.

Good screenshots are almost always products of teamwork, so vanity or not you wont get a good screenshot without people working together on settings.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

In the end you will never know how i see you, maybe i do some .dat modding and you run around in PUP af on my screen you will never know it...
And a few posts ago was the main reason why a toggle is not that bad. It's not the ppl that wan't to use the Vanity system to have a gearset that fits together it's cause of the ppl that will run around as clown cause they know there are ppl getting annoyed by it. As long you don't pay my sub it should be my decision if i turn it on or off.

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I just posted a reason why that's false. If you post a screenshot on your lodestone I do get to see how I look on your screen. (Not to mention, you guys keep saying .dat modding was cool, but I'm pretty sure it's a violation of the TOS to mod any game files. Even if SE was terrible at cracking down in XI)

With a few minor restrictions the fear of people ruining immersion are also dismissable.

People gonna wear stupid shit with or without Vanity slots end of story.

So what would happen if I take a screenshot, spend a few minutes with Photoshop on your appearance and then post it, same result. Posting SS is no reason against a toggle cause same result can happen on so many different ways and you cant avoid anyway.

But ppl won't wear stuff which sacrifice their stats without the system

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

I just posted a reason why that's false. If you post a screenshot on your lodestone I do get to see how I look on your screen. (Not to mention, you guys keep saying .dat modding was cool, but I'm pretty sure it's a violation of the TOS to mod any game files. Even if SE was terrible at cracking down in XI)

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They really didnt care about it. The only thing you had to worry about is when you updated sometimes the files would get replaced and you'd have to patch it again. I'm pretty sure they took some ideas of those mod sites as well.

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

With a few minor restrictions the fear of people ruining immersion are also dismissable.

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I care what is seen is what is, the idea breaks this (though this isnt the popular reason for a toggle button - just my personal reasons). Most commonly there is the "people looking stupid" issue, which can be mostly fixed by restricting the system. But restricting the system too much and you already have what we have now.. so its just better to add a toggle and allow "a little more freedom" then perhaps what would normally be allowed in such a system (still excluding seasonals though).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I care what is seen is what is, the idea breaks this (though this isnt the popular reason for a toggle button - just my personal reasons). Most commonly there is the "people looking stupid" issue, which can be mostly fixed by restricting the system. But restricting the system too much and you already have what we have now.. so its just better to add a toggle and allow "a little more freedom" then perhaps what would normally be allowed in such a system.

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Here is where we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally have never liked having my character's development being soley reliant on getting "better gear". If I can complete the content, get the gear - why should my characters apperance make a difference to anyone else?

Unless you have issues with my purple DRG armor, then we'll just have to step outside. :P

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

Here is where we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally have never liked having my character's development being soley reliant on getting "better gear". If I can complete the content, get the gear - why should my characters apperance make a difference to anyone else?

Unless you have issues with my purple DRG armor, then we'll just have to step outside. :P

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:P Even if your character looked badass - mentally I'm stuborn enough that a little voice would be saying "lie, lie lie lie lie - he doesnt have any of that crap on - its a big lie". Obviously not a problem for most people lol

I can stand ugly gear because I know it is ugly, and real. lol

I think a vanity system would be great, so long as I can turn if off when I need - specially in situations like PvP. Or if I am in a raid and I want to evaluate 10 people in 30 seconds instead of 10 people in 15 minutes.

Perhaps if the community is mature and with time I could grow to like the vanity system - but right now all I can think is how easy and how beneficial it would be to have a toggle. (it wouldn't load the server any more then having armor in general- and it wouldn't effect your play if someone had it on or not).

While true screenshots may be inconsistent so is it when people take a screenshot of you in mid animation making you look retarded. Getting people to get a good screenshot of you (as said previously) takes time and teamwork, specially in this game were you can't pause your animation ("hold the smile") and can barely get into place as your character moves too far.

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Originally Posted by Firon

People gonna wear stupid shit with or without Vanity slots end of story.

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A vanity slot will mean that people will move all their stupid/outlandish/gimmicky outfits to the vanity system.

A toggle means that when Vanity is turned off, most of the stupid/outlandish/gimmicky looking stuff goes away and we just see people's real gear.

Win-Win :cool:


Funny, for as much as I've railed against it, I might actually prefer a vanity system with a toggle to no vanity system at all...