Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

Wait, doesn't Defiance lower damage by 25%? I coulda sworn I was doing more damage with it off than on.

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Wait until parties prefer PLDs over you for Titan/Coil :/

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I have a feeling a fix will be passed down eventually, and I am not a super hard-core player. I've only pushed up through 21 with MRD, but if my effectiveness has been decreased by 20% by fun levels have been boosted by 50% : D

If it becomes unbearable I'd switch back but all this thinking and excitement of your HP going up and down up and down sound like a blast to me : D

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

3 - DOUBLE Enmity generation?

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Shield Oath increases enmity generation as well; it's not something unique to Defiance. If an equally geared PLD in Shield Oath wants to rip aggro off of a WAR, that WAR has 2 options: completely demolish its damage output by spamming BB combos and ignoring Maim and Storm's Eye (generates *slightly* more enmity than straight Halone, even without the buffs) or recognize that she's not going to keep aggro off of the PLD since the SE combo provides a substantial net loss to enmity generation.

I've tested this out *numerous* times in combat. If a PLD is played intelligently (which tends to be rare since there are a *lot* of completely idiotic PLDs out there; idiot WARs tend to get weeded out *very* early on), it's exactly what it looks like and susses out with the theory (which operates off of the supposition that Shield Oath and Defiance provide the same end enmity modifier). The enmity mod for Defiance and Shield Oath, if it's not identical, is so close that the difference between then doesn't make one.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

the data you provided doesn't support this, when put side-by-side the other data provided in this thread. It doesn't match my data. in fact i'm barely in full darklight and we put out similar DPS numbers. the major difference is i'm rarely not at 20% crit. I will occasionally spike up to 25% for certain bosses. but for the most part, i'm 20% for everything and very rarely, if ever, drop below that.



ehhhh. except you're forgetting that the Lunatic Priest is also half of that fight. you had a 20% crit rate on. you spiked on the flayer for 33. which means you really had a 27% crit rate for that fight. you have to consider the entire encounter.

your crit rate on Anta was 22.6%. where's your 30% crit rate?

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I don't know. That's why I much prefer real play damage testing to Dummy tests. But I got my 30% crit rate on Demon Wall too and part of that fight you're repelled. So if I hadn't gotten repelled then.... it would have been higher?

The Lunatic Priest on that fight is not half the fight by any stretch of the imagination. The Lunatic Priest dies in less than 30 secs. I only really look at 3 mobs in AK for results: Psychflayer, Demon Wall, and Anantaboga.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

Demonwall is a very short fight, so you had a 30% crit there too. so you're getting your crits in big burts. in the longer fights, anta, your crit rate is more stable and closer to what I would expect.

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Anantaboga lasts the same amount of time as Psychflayer. Part of the Psychflayer fight I'm not even hitting Psychflayer at all because I help DPS the adds like a Good WAR Tank. (*gimme a cookie please*).

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Originally Posted by Onisake

across those 3 fights your crit rate was really 26.4%. your crit rate for the entire dungeon was about 27%. so your numbers are more consistent than you think. Data never lies. you just have to know how to read it.

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You keep wanting to bring my numbers down... but still even if you try to bring the numbers down the fact is I should only be getting 22% crit rate for the few times I have both Wrath V and Internal Release up during the whole fight. Otherwise my Crit Rate over all should be closer to 14%-15%.

If the calculator is accurate, I should not be getting 22% crit rate overall of any of the fights. Much less 27% over the whole encounter. And I should not be getting 30-33% crit rate on any mob period.

There is no way that the Crit Rate Calculator is right about the buffs given. I don't know why it's not turning out the way the Calculator says it should, but it's not.

That's not my problem.

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Originally Posted by MillieVanillie

Wait, doesn't Defiance lower damage by 25%? I coulda sworn I was doing more damage with it off than on.

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Defiance lowers DMG -25% and raises HP +25%. So yes. You do less DMG with Defiance on - Defiance modifies enmity gain.

I've seen a lot of "DEX effects Crit" or "DEX effects ACC" going on in this thread and it's making my head hurt. If you're testing DEX gains by using DEX accessories please take note of the secondary effects on your gear; Spinel gives secondary Crit + stats, and Electrum gives STR/DEX and ACC. DEX isn't giving you ACC or Crit gains.

Putting on my BRD gear while on WAR -> 70 DEX changed my Crit & ACC stat exactly: 0

Parry 359 - naked.
Parry 359 - decked out in all my DEX gear from BRD.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Actually, it's not.

First off, 8% is not "by far" (BB is 280 enmity; Halone is 260; 280/260 = 1.077). Secondly, Medica II is the highest hate generation in the game. It's not even a contest. Just *try* keeping aggro off of a WHM that's tossing out Medica II like crazy: it can't be done. The initial ping has an enmity modifier of .8 and the HoT is at a 1.0. Plus, it hits 8 targets and generates enmity on *everything*. A tank's worst nightmare is a WHM that doesn't know how to manage its enmity because, no matter what that tank does, that WHM is going to be tanking.

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You need more warriors in your life. We're talking about single target emninity here, not group total eminity. This doesn't count at all.

Math: Damage Enmity = Healing enmity x2. Or, 1 point of damage = 2 points of hp healed - IN HATE GENERATED.

SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

Butchers block is not "8%". How on earth are you getting that number? Butcher's block is EXACTLY 5x the damage dealt in emninity generated. Pld has a wet noodle and no dps potential. Warrior hits for MOUNTAINS of damage with BB, and it's stacked with sunder, which is 3x damage as emnity, RIGHT BEFORE the other skill is popped. Your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Defiance lowers DMG -25% and raises HP +25%. So yes. You do less DMG with Defiance on - Defiance modifies enmity gain.

I've seen a lot of "DEX effects Crit" or "DEX effects ACC" going on in this thread and it's making my head hurt. If you're testing DEX gains by using DEX accessories please take note of the secondary effects on your gear; Spinel gives secondary Crit + stats, and Electrum gives STR/DEX and ACC. DEX isn't giving you ACC or Crit gains.

Putting on my BRD gear while on WAR -> 70 DEX changed my Crit & ACC stat exactly: 0

Parry 359 - naked.
Parry 359 - decked out in all my DEX gear from BRD.

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Parry is a completely separate stat from Dex that does not modify that number in any way. The rate at which you parry is directly modified by dex, and then again directly modified by the stat "parry". Dex does not modify "parry". The two together modify your rate of parry % chance in response to every enemy attack focused on you, except magical. It also works with aoe that isn't focused on you. The chance to parry is calculated every time there's incoming "non-direct, non-magical" damage.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

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This never happens. -.-

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

This never happens. -.-

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Sux don't it. The problem is, mages don't stop healing. I macroed tomahawk to be directly after provoke because the following happens:

big heal - Voke, I have hate for 0.00025 seconds until they heal it right off me, oops there's the tomahawk, which gives me 3x it's damage in enmity generated. Woot, now I can heavy, sunder, bb combo. Sometimes I'll do provoke - stun - heavy, sunder, bb combo when that happens.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Parry is a completely separate stat from Dex that does not modify that number in any way. The rate at which you parry is directly modified by dex, and then again directly modified by the stat "parry". Dex does not modify "parry". The two together modify your rate of parry % chance across all responses to auto attack.

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Either way stacking DEX is still asinine. Nothing at endgame is going to give Warrior DEX at lv50 - unless you're suggesting we should go buy Darklight's Aiming set - in which case you rob yourself of either +VIT +PARRY or +STR +CRIT depending on your opinion which are more important stats. By lowering Parry you're lowering the effectiveness of the DEX you add - by sacrificing STR you're lowering the Parry mitigation - by lowering VIT you're reducing your overall HP pool. Are you going to meld a significant amount of DEX? Allot your stat points to DEX +20? This would make my STR/DEX equal at 203 each at lv50 (with weapon stats removed).

It's pointless to mess with DEX in my opinion - it does nothing to actually bolster a Warrior's eHP.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Either way stacking DEX is still asinine. Nothing at endgame is going to give Warrior DEX at lv50 - unless you're suggesting we should go buy Darklight's Aiming set - in which case you rob yourself of either +VIT +PARRY or +STR +CRIT depending on your opinion which are more important stats. By lowering Parry you're lowering the effectiveness of the DEX you add - by sacrificing STR you're lowering the Parry mitigation - by lowering VIT you're reducing your overall HP pool. Are you going to meld a significant amount of DEX? Allot your stat points to DEX +20? This would make my STR/DEX equal at 203 each at lv50 (with weapon stats removed).
It's pointless to mess with DEX in my opinion - it does nothing to actually bolster a Warrior's eHP.

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I never suggested STACKING DEX. Please look to my previous posts in this thread on page 12 and 13. Look at your AF stats to see what things you should be focusing on.

The stat Parry is more important then Dex for war. STR and VIT are the most important. If you look at endgame gear, you will see that there is distinctly several options in the WAR/PLD/MRD/GLD stuff. I suggest picking the ones that increase STR over VIT, and Parry over Blocking, for warriors This also goes for accessories. I do not recommend anything that prevents you from wearing feet and head, and I'm saying not to IGNORE dex, that's all. If there's an item that gives you dex and and equal STR to an item that gives you Vit and something else, pick dex if you've already reached my 405 point STR recommendation for 15% parry damage mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

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And there is no effective way to get those numbers with endgame gear so you'll need to meld or allot for DEX - which just makes it a difficult route to pursue. The real issue is WAR can only parry - it cannot block. WAR cannot raise it's Parry rate with abilities - only melds, off-type gear, or allotment. PLD gets to have their cake and eat it as it were - as a Tank it can access both forms of mitigation and actively increase the rate at which it can utilize that mitigation without sacrificing gear slots, meld slots, or allotment points.

Thus imbalance. Either way you're hard pressed as a Warrior to utilize DEX - making it a pointless stat. They should; transfer Block & Parry rate adjustments to the VIT stat - add a CD to actively increase WAR's Parry rate similar to Bulwark - and remove Parry from Paladin.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I don't know. That's why I much prefer real play damage testing to Dummy tests.

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If you want to get an accurate baseline of your Crit with and without buffs it has to be on a dummy with a sufficient sample size. Saying you are getting a 27% or higher crit rate when you parse on different bosses, in different situations, with different circumstances or other factors involved isn't going to give you good data. I've personally tested crit rate with no % boosts and have gotten what the calculator predicted. The only issue I have with the calculator is how % boosts to crit are factored. Either way, having to rely on lucky crit procs for Inner Beast to survive in harder fights does not a tank make. Using that logic anyone can tank by relying on lucky dodge procs. The main thing WAR needs is reliability. It doesn't have to come from straight damage mitigation like PLD but it has to be as reliable as PLDs.

Defiance should work like 1.xx Rampage did. Every crit heals us on a multiplier. This was what made WAR viable in 1.0, until they obsoleted paladin letting us full heal with SC. I guess that's the scare they have. But letting it stand as is, is the exact inverse of what happened to PLD in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

We're talking about single target emninity here, not group total eminity. This doesn't count at all.

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Yes, it does. Medica II is massive enmity gain *even against a single target*. It generates the same enmity on all targets that you're in combat with.

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Math: Damage Enmity = Healing enmity x2. Or, 1 point of damage = 2 points of hp healed - IN HATE GENERATED.

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Not true. Not in the least. Each heal has a different enmity modifier. Cure/Physick has an enmity modifier of .5: each point of healing generates .5 enmity. Cure II has an enmity modifier of .8. Regen has an enmity modifier of 1. Every point of healing that you get from Regen provides exactly as much enmity as it heals. This is one of the big reasons why Medica II is so friggin' nasty: a bulk of its healing is from Regen.

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SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

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Except that Provoke doesn't actually do anything useful over the long term. Medica II provides constant threat thanks to that regen. Even if you Provoke right after it's cast, you're just set at +1. The Regen is going to tick again within the next 3 seconds and that's 8 ticks of massive threat in the time you can, hopefully, get off the end of a BB combo. Medica II will *demolish* a tank's enmity generation. Provoke is a complete and utter joke.

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Butchers block is not "8%". How on earth are you getting that number? Butcher's block is EXACTLY 5x the damage dealt in emninity generated. Pld has a wet noodle and no dps potential. Warrior hits for MOUNTAINS of damage with BB, and it's stacked with sunder, which is 3x damage as emnity, RIGHT BEFORE the other skill is popped. Your argument is invalid.

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First off, PLD does not have we noodle DPS, nor does WAR have massively huge DPS. If you want to check, I've got the math shown in my sig. It's all right there: WAR does *not* do appreciably more damage than a WAR and PLD, in fact, generates more enmity thanks to getting to spam its high enmity combo rather than having to interweave a standard enmity combo.

Secondly, the 8% number comes from yet more basic math. The Halone combo has the exact same enmity modifiers as the Butcher's Block combo. The first two attacks also deal the exact same damage because they share the exact same potency (150 and 200, respectively). The only difference in enmity generation between Halone and BB is the damage dealt by the final attack: Halone has a potency of 260 and BB has a potency of 280. For this final attack (which is what was being referenced in the statement I quoted), the difference is a monumental 7.7%, which you would understand given that I actually posted the math right there for you to look at.

I highly recommend you actually read what you're attempting to debunk, not to mention actually understand the underpinning information that you should be operating off of rather than just going by kneejerk reactions or purely instinctual suppositions about performance. All you're did here was make yourself look like an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

And there is no effective way to get those numbers with endgame gear so you'll need to meld or allot for DEX.

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You only need 20 DEX to unlock the new cap for you parry. HQ DPS acc gives you 9 DEX, grab 3 and it's all good. A Fully geared WAR need some DPS acc anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kaalan

You only need 20 DEX to unlock the new cap for you parry. HQ DPS acc gives you 9 DEX, grab 3 and it's all good. A Fully geared WAR need some DPS acc anyway.

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Do you have a link to parry rate testing? My searches always seem to turn up nothing but block/parry damage mitigation results.

I don't but I read multiple times that it was 211 so I can only assume it's true. You'll get 27 (= 218 DEX) anyway by grabbing neck/wrist/ear DPS and Tank ring anyway, which seems to be the perfect combination to me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zuri

Defiance should work like 1.xx Rampage did. Every crit heals us on a multiplier. This was what made WAR viable in 1.0, until they obsoleted paladin letting us full heal with SC. I guess that's the scare they have. But letting it stand as is, is the exact inverse of what happened to PLD in 1.0.

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It is kind of weird that warriors gain no extra benefit from crit even though Wrath raises crit rate.

What really made paladin unused in 1.0 for a while was that basically all of their job actions sucked on release. Warrior is kind of in a similar state right now, where some of its abilities are just kind of lacking. A 1.0 paladin-style update it might be something like this:

Vengeance - becomes a mitigation cooldown similar to 1.0 - reduces damage from incoming attacks and returns a portion of the mitigated damage.
Unchained - Also increases parry rate for the duration.
Thrill of Battle - Shorter cooldown (90s?)
Enhanced Foresight - More defense increase, also increases magic def
Defiance - Healing increase no longer tied to Wrath, matches EHP with Shield Oath

This would make pld/war pretty similar in the number of defensive cooldowns available. Other things that could be changed are Inner Beast (shield instead of healing), Storm's Path (STR debuff instead of healing), and Steel Cyclone. Really, though, warrior isn't as bad as some people on the forums are making it out to be. Yes, they are worse than paladins, but stuff like Titan is easily doable as warrior. It's a bit after that where things start to get hairy.

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Originally Posted by Skull_Angel

Do you have a link to parry rate testing? My searches always seem to turn up nothing but block/parry damage mitigation results.

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Parry testing with WAR. I found and have been linked PLD with DEX stack testing, but I did bring up the question about it. I was hoping maybe DEX would have a hidden modifier for WARs and parry since most of our gear comes with parry. More DEX reduces diminishing returns of stack parry or something to that effect. It seems like a silly stat to have if stacking parry only helped you a minor portion of the time. I also got made fun of/flamed for bring it up to some. I do tend to believe it isn't useful compared to STR vs VIT from all the research done. My inkling of hope was that our 20% mitigation came from insane parry rates. enough rambling, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Yes, it does. Medica II is massive enmity gain *even against a single target*. It generates the same enmity on all targets that you're in combat with.



Not true. Not in the least. Each heal has a different enmity modifier. Cure/Physick has an enmity modifier of .5: each point of healing generates .5 enmity. Cure II has an enmity modifier of .8. Regen has an enmity modifier of 1. Every point of healing that you get from Regen provides exactly as much enmity as it heals. This is one of the big reasons why Medica II is so friggin' nasty: a bulk of its healing is from Regen.

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ahem: http//valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP
Please read the section on Emninity.

Or you know, flash, tomahawk, bb combo immediately after - your tank was bad and he should feel bad.

you're also completely ignoring the fact that the enmity is generated based on the final damage numbers of the actual attack. I don't care how much dps over time difference there is between War and Pld, that's not at all important. WAR gets SIGNIFICANTLY MORE HATE with BB because axes have TWICE THE BASE DAMAGE of swords, meaning more hate generated on the move that actually generates hate. You do realize that potency is a modifier of the base weapon damage... right?

I would read through this thread, but I'm a bit low on time. One question I have to ask is, as a WAR would the DL rings of Maiming be better off than Fending? Instead on focusing on crit, wouldn't a build of 20 STR/10 Vit, which str+skillspeed gear be more beneficial?

I want to try this out personally, since I feel that we have decent amounts of HP regardless, so being able to hit more often would stack out wrath stacks up so much more, no?

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Originally Posted by Lhun

WAR gets SIGNIFICANTLY MORE HATE with BB because axes have TWICE THE BASE DAMAGE of swords

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.....wut? Garuda's Scream Weapon Damage 41 > Garuda's Gaze Weapon Damage 41. Ummm, no.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

ahem: http//valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP
Please read the section on Emninity.

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It's obvious that that chart is not relevant for live, and it's been shown to be ridiculously inaccurate.

Also, axes have the exact same base damage as swords, they have more auto attack damage, but actions aren't based off of auto attack damage but base damage.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

You do realize that potency is a modifier of the base weapon damage... right?

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Weapon damage != auto-attack damage. Axes have nearly twice the auto-attack damage but the weapon damage is based entirely upon i-level and is the same for all weapon categories. Nice job not having a baseline understanding of the underlying mechanics of the game.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

WAR gets SIGNIFICANTLY MORE HATE with BB because axes have TWICE THE BASE DAMAGE of swords, meaning more hate generated on the move that actually generates hate.

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Uhm... are you playing the same game as us?

http://xivdb.com/?item/1816/Bravura

http://xivdb.com/?item/1675/Curtana

On the other hand, Berserk and Maim boost Flash potency.

What are you using to parse the data?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

http://i.imgur.com/maVhYB1.png?1

My counter
This is with my usual Crit Set up which includes a mix of blue and White and Green. (The crafted items) and one of my rings (Ring of Lasting Shelter) gives no STR at all.

I also only have 20 STR allocated, not 30.

So no, I do not stack STR. You have to be balanced.

(On my server, Tomestone Crafted items cost about 97k currently. But hey, if you want Better gear, you'll spend the gil for it, but good job on making due with what you have.)

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Foresight's trait is to make it the same cooldown as Rampart, it already has the same duration, now you have the same CD as Rampart with less physical damage reduction and no magical damage reduction. Whats the point of that? Feels like the skill was created specifically for Paladin but they ran out of room for Paladin skills and threw it on War so PLD could pick it up.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

Foresight's trait is to make it the same cooldown as Rampart, it already has the same duration, now you have the same CD as Rampart with less physical damage reduction and no magical damage reduction. Whats the point of that? Feels like the skill was created specifically for Paladin but they ran out of room for Paladin skills and threw it on War so PLD could pick it up.

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lol i laughed

you might be right about foresight

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Originally Posted by Lhun

ahem: http//valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP
because axes have TWICE THE BASE DAMAGE of swords, meaning more hate generated on the move that actually generates hate. You do realize that potency is a modifier of the base weapon damage... right?

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lol

please stop.

and for other people

please check #158...

n

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Originally Posted by Hundred

Foresight's trait is to make it the same cooldown as Rampart, it already has the same duration, now you have the same CD as Rampart with less physical damage reduction and no magical damage reduction. Whats the point of that? Feels like the skill was created specifically for Paladin but they ran out of room for Paladin skills and threw it on War so PLD could pick it up.

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Sadly, if foresight was made a decent skill it would just instantly make PLD even better. It would enable them to basically have a very long rotation of defensive cooldowns if used in succession (90-130 seconds), or to indefinitely use a big cooldown every time a boss used a big skill such as mountain buster.

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Originally Posted by Eej

On the other hand, Berserk and Maim boost Flash potency.

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this./10chars

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Uhm... are you playing the same game as us?

http://xivdb.com/?item/1816/Bravura

http://xivdb.com/?item/1675/Curtana

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I'm sorry, you seem to be ignoring something incredibly important here.

Bravura
Strength +27
Vitality +30
Parry +33
Skill Speed +23

Curtana:
Strength +19
Vitality +21
Parry +16
Accuracy +23

I should have been more clear. Yes, our DPS is close, with war winning just a little. However, our damage per swing is worlds ahead of pld - Coupled with our already huge base STR, our gear STR, and our crit rate, it's no contest.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

Sadly, if foresight was made a decent skill it would just instantly make PLD even better.

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There are 2 possible solutions to this: either buff Foresight and remove it from the PLD's additional skills allowed or change the Improved Foresight trait to include the bonuses that it *should* have (or add an Improved Foresight II trait that buffs it like it's supposed to). Either way, one buff that should have been there from the very beginning was to have it apply to both defense and magic defense. Even if PLD got that, Foresight would still be painfully mediocre.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

I'm sorry, you seem to be ignoring something incredibly important here.

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So shields don't exist? Holy Shield (which you get alongside Curtana) just so happens to come with 8 STR, which is the exact deficiency you seem to think is making a massive difference.

Are you seriously this oblivious? You were wrong about weapon damage. You're wrong about stats. What else are you going to bring up trying to claim that WAR somehow has a massive damage advantage over PLD that you'll also be wrong about? You're just reaching for straws. Stop behaving like an idiot and face the facts: WAR has no damage advantage *at all*.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

I'm sorry, you seem to be ignoring something incredibly important here.

Bravura
Strength +27
Vitality +30
Parry +33
Skill Speed +23

Curtana:
Strength +19
Vitality +21
Parry +16
Accuracy +23

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Derp. And all this time I thought Paladins got to use shields which had stats on them.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

Foresight's trait is to make it the same cooldown as Rampart, it already has the same duration, now you have the same CD as Rampart with less physical damage reduction and no magical damage reduction. Whats the point of that? Feels like the skill was created specifically for Paladin but they ran out of room for Paladin skills and threw it on War so PLD could pick it up.

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Conversely I think it's strange that Convalescence is a GLD ability. Think about it, WAR/MRD are the ones that are supposed to require more healing, but the "mitigation tank" (GLD/PLD) is the one that gets the best version of the bonus heals ability?

Please use the following tool, and you will see what I mean.

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202

I used the tool to create the following example, using my own current stats, removing the stats from my current axe, and subbing in a Bravura, and then a Curtana.

my average weaponskill damage is 212.2 from butcher's block only with defiance up and maim on (it's always on). (so minus 10% damage from base)
5x 212.2 is 1061 effective damage enmninity from that skill only. Lets not even talk about Storm's Eye, and how much it increases damage (it's a lot). I'm sure for a lot of you it's MUCH higher. I just hit 50 on this character.

If I had a curtana (ignoring the fact that I'm a warrior with much higher str), it would be 185.42 with RoH, which is 927 effective damage enminity. That's with shield oath OFF. (when is it ever off when you're tanking?)

A Pld should never have more STR then a war, they will never do as much damage per hit, and their hate generated doesn't even compare in the slightest.

Math, it works.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

I'm sorry, I* seem to be ignoring something incredibly important here.

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Holy Shield
Off Hand › Shield

Block Strength
167
Block Rate
167

Strength +8
Vitality +8
Parry +9
Skill Speed +7