Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

The answer is that the overall playerbase took "Glamour is the true endgame" as gospel rather than a joke, so now the actual game is in the way of playing the dollhouse game whenever this happens.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

So what's a causal player? I play on average 3-4 hours a night I will try and challenge myself with extremes, unreal, criterion and on occasions savage. But I dont have a static and I join random Pfs with friends I have 118mill as there's not much i want atm, but I would class myself as a casual player. In my opinion lately there has been more gil sink items on the MB and it's about time.

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Bro, you've been playing this for over a decade. You're anything but casual lol

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Hairstyles aren't really cosmetics, they're one of the most fundamental aspects of character appearance. It's why the game has 4 faces but like 50 hairstyles, hair is incredibly important for how a video game character looks. They shouldn't be locked behind savage or ultimate, and haven't been until now.

Also casual players don't have 50 million gil, so it being on the market board is irrelevant. It doesn't seem likely that it's going to be 100k any time soon.

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I mean you just described cosmetic in a round about way aka purely there for looks. You have ppl complain about savage wall / mog station lol the walk really was made by design XD

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Originally Posted by PaulusHamsteru

Bro, you've been playing this for over a decade. You're anything but casual lol

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Bro legit answered his own question when ge asked what a casual is. 3-4 hours is a casual btw. Anything over 6+ hours is usually hardcore. Dawntrail cured me of that. I use to be able to play for like 8+ hours on the days i dont work 6 hours on the days I work XD

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Originally Posted by kajv95

The answer is that the overall playerbase took "Glamour is the true endgame" as gospel rather than a joke, so now the actual game is in the way of playing the dollhouse game whenever this happens.

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I mean glamour is true endgame.....why do you think ppl use glamour crystal to glam their ultimate weapons savage extreme/boss weapons or look for that particular piece for their fashion. lol lets be honest. The mid - hardcore players make up like 2 - 5% of player base and rest are casuals.....the rp scene legit carrying this game.

I think we're overcomplicating this.

Many people simply don't find PvE in this game particularly engaging. They don't attempt EX+ because they don't want to. You can smooth out difficulty spikes and create as many learning opportunities as you like, but it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

SE's approach to funnel more players into EX+, particularly on NA/EU, seems to be to introduce massive content droughts for non-raiders. It will only work in the sense that the player base will tilt more towards EX+ as non-raiders leave.

I dont think ppl are over thinking. If there general concern about this game ppl wanna know why is the game leaning one way.

I guess the idea is both pay 15 dollars a month. Unfortunately the time of exclsuive rewards is kind of dead when it comes to video games. There are far more casual players then hardcore players at the end of the day, and it's often not worth listening to the hardcore players as they make a very small % of the actual player base.
it's just how it is, it's nothing personal, just business.

I think it's less so entitlement and more so just being bummed that such cosmetics seem beyond them. Speaking as a casual player who doesn't do high-end content, there is a reason I don't. And it's not because the content itself is too hard. It's because of how intimidating the preparations are.

You need to have the best current gear, preferably overmelded with the best and CORRECT materia. Perfect stats. Best high-end raid-tier food. Etc.

When a person who wants to attempt savage sees all of these things they have to do, they will have one of two reactions.

1.) All right, this is fine.

2.) *petrified with anxiety*

Number 2 happens a lot because no one wants to be the one who accidentally melded the wrong materia, didn't overmeld at all because they couldn't afford it, or ate the wrong food. Because then you wind up feeling like you are dragging the party down because you didn't go into it with 100% perfect everything.

And maybe raiders will say, "You don't NEED to be 100% perfect to clear" but that is absolutely the perception from casual players like me who watch raiders spend millions of gil overmelding and getting their hands on the absolute best of everything.

TL DR High-end content feels extremely intimidating and insurmountable for most casual players due to the perceived expectations placed on them. Therefore, they get sad that they are missing out on cosmetics that they feel like they cannot and will not ever get.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Bro legit answered his own question when ge asked what a casual is. 3-4 hours is a casual btw. Anything over 6+ hours is usually hardcore. Dawntrail cured me of that. I use to be able to play for like 8+ hours on the days i dont work 6 hours on the days I work XD

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Yes I would deem myself as casual that's what I was getting at to the OP earning 50 mill is not that difficult to the casual player. But the question of what is a causal player? as it varies from player to player. You only have to read the comments, over 6 hours +, someone who's played over a decade, 3-4 hours a night averaged out (i.e could play for 5-6 hours on sat + sun and then skip a couple of days) or someone who doesn't do savage etc.

And no if someone plays for 1 hour a week or every few weeks etc then they shouldnt be handed everything to them without work.

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

TL DR High-end content feels extremely intimidating and insurmountable for most casual players due to the perceived expectations placed on them. Therefore, they get sad that they are missing out on cosmetics that they feel like they cannot and will not ever get.

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But they're not missing out it's just a matter of WHEN they get the item as eventually you out lvl the difficulty

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Originally Posted by kajv95

The answer is that the overall playerbase took "Glamour is the true endgame" as gospel rather than a joke, so now the actual game is in the way of playing the dollhouse game whenever this happens.

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this is most people who play games

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

But they're not missing out it's just a matter of WHEN they get the item as eventually you out lvl the difficulty

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You make a fair point, but when you see people NOW running around with something you want but you feel like you can't get, it's only natural to be bummed about it.

Btw, I'm not advocating for savage rewards to be handed over to people who don't do savage. I just have an issue with casual players being called "entitled" when it's far more likely that they are just sad that a pretty new cosmetic is locked behind something they feel is beyond their reach.

By all means, if you or anyone else finds someone demanding savage rewards without doing savage, point me in their direction and I'll laugh at them with you because that's just silly.

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

You make a fair point, but when you see people NOW running around with something you want but you feel like you can't get, it's only natural to be bummed about it.

Btw, I'm not advocating for savage rewards to be handed over to people who don't do savage. I just have an issue with casual players being called "entitled" when it's far more likely that they are just sad that a pretty new cosmetic is locked behind something they feel is beyond their reach.

By all means, if you or anyone else finds someone demanding savage rewards without doing savage, point me in their direction and I'll laugh at them with you because that's just silly.

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Agree with that, but there is also the elephant in the room of why a highly-desirable cosmetic item was locked behind savage-level content, particularly when it had absolutely no thematic link to that content.

It seems probable this was another failed attempt by SE to funnel non-raiders into content they do not like.

It's just simple like that:
U want something, U need to work for something.
If U can't get Ur things together to manage it, U won't get it.

U can't get 100% in a game if U Play like 50%..

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Originally Posted by JokoCGN

It's just simple like that:
U want something, U need to work for something.
If U can't get Ur things together to manage it, U won't get it.

U can't get 100% in a game if U Play like 50%..

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Sure, but the question is what stuff gets placed in the 50% bucket, and why?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Agree with that, but there is also the elephant in the room of why a highly-desirable cosmetic item was locked behind savage-level content, particularly when it had absolutely no thematic link to that content.

It seems probable this was another failed attempt by SE to funnel non-raiders into content they do not like.

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Agreed. I don't really see a reason to lock a hairstyle of all things behind savage-level content. Without sliders in the character creator, we are already so ridiculously limited in how much we can customize our character's physical appearance. Hair is ONE thing we have a decent number of options for. If it were up to me, fancy glowy weapons and gear would be the only things locked behind savage, tbh. But I'm not in charge, so...

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

But they're not missing out it's just a matter of WHEN they get the item as eventually you out lvl the difficulty

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But I think the problem with Cloud of Darkness in particular is that it's so niche, it's essentially dead now. You can run older EX trials unsynced and even solo depending on how far you outlevel them. And since it's just 8-player fights it's generally easier to still find people to do older EX and savage content with. But CoD is savage-ish and requires 24 players for an item you need to farm over and over again. So it's not enough to get 24 people once in a blue moon.
They've designed CoD in a way that completely stands in the way of becoming more accessible with time.

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

I think it's less so entitlement and more so just being bummed that such cosmetics seem beyond them. Speaking as a casual player who doesn't do high-end content, there is a reason I don't. And it's not because the content itself is too hard. It's because of how intimidating the preparations are.

You need to have the best current gear, preferably overmelded with the best and CORRECT materia. Perfect stats. Best high-end raid-tier food. Etc.

When a person who wants to attempt savage sees all of these things they have to do, they will have one of two reactions.

1.) All right, this is fine.

2.) *petrified with anxiety*

Number 2 happens a lot because no one wants to be the one who accidentally melded the wrong materia, didn't overmeld at all because they couldn't afford it, or ate the wrong food. Because then you wind up feeling like you are dragging the party down because you didn't go into it with 100% perfect everything.

And maybe raiders will say, "You don't NEED to be 100% perfect to clear" but that is absolutely the perception from casual players like me who watch raiders spend millions of gil overmelding and getting their hands on the absolute best of everything.

TL DR High-end content feels extremely intimidating and insurmountable for most casual players due to the perceived expectations placed on them. Therefore, they get sad that they are missing out on cosmetics that they feel like they cannot and will not ever get.

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All the barriers you listed seem perfectly reasonable tho. Idk, it makes sense to me that to be able to step into the top-tier content that you'd need to make top-tier preparations. I kinda like that. Its part of the journey. The friction is rewarding. I say this as someone who just started EW and hasn't done any savage or ultimates tho. All the barriers you listed sounds cool as hell though. It'll be like i'm a warrior kitting myself up for a battle instead of just being able to instantly enter.

I played many many years of FFXI and have been playing XIV since it's release and the main reason I don't do savage raids is because scripted fights bore me to death. I find they require very little skill expression aside from having good memory whilst "staying on task". I enjoy this game casually with my friends because I play much harder games more competitively.

I get both sides of the argument for this. Casuals want to have access to the ONE thing they play the game for, glam. And raiders want stuff to make them feel special and superior to those of us who hate the toxicity and/or boredom of raiding so they can stand out in Limsa and afk with their weapon drawn.

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Originally Posted by RyoXander

I played many many years of FFXI and have been playing XIV since it's release and the main reason I don't do savage raids is because scripted fights bore me to death. I find they require very little skill expression aside from having good memory whilst "staying on task". I enjoy this game casually with my friends because I play much harder games more competitively.

I get both sides of the argument for this. Casuals want to have access to the ONE thing they play the game for, glam. And raiders want stuff to make them feel special and superior to those of us who hate the toxicity and/or boredom of raiding so they can stand out in Limsa and afk with their weapon drawn.

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To be honest, this issue wouldn't be as bad if:

a) The selection of hairstyles and character features, etc., were more diverse. Like, it is a game that is already on a severe character customization deficit for the art style it uses, IMO. This is also why people take issue with releasing certain items like hairstyles on MogStation (Though this is a more normalized method).

b) If the content they were locking this hairstyle behind didn't have poor shelf life. The trend of pricing with the item(s) is pretty indicative that the content has poor shelf life. Eventually in due time the content will continue to fade into obscurity (carried almost exclusively by Discord), especially when the longer form relic content releases, and especially when a subsequent Chaotic is released... Like, you probably could've locked this hairstyle behind 1.5mln MGP, and you would unironically have less complaints than putting it behind content which evidently doesn't have much shelf life.

I don't think it's just a case of "They want it, and they want it now" -- Like we've had quite a few threads of people lambasting casuals for joining chaotic parties when they struggle with fundamental mechanics, whilst also subsequently lambasting those same casual players as entitled (Literally the OP)

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

I think it's less so entitlement and more so just being bummed that such cosmetics seem beyond them. Speaking as a casual player who doesn't do high-end content, there is a reason I don't. And it's not because the content itself is too hard. It's because of how intimidating the preparations are.

You need to have the best current gear, preferably overmelded with the best and CORRECT materia. Perfect stats. Best high-end raid-tier food. Etc.

When a person who wants to attempt savage sees all of these things they have to do, they will have one of two reactions.

1.) All right, this is fine.

2.) *petrified with anxiety*

Number 2 happens a lot because no one wants to be the one who accidentally melded the wrong materia, didn't overmeld at all because they couldn't afford it, or ate the wrong food. Because then you wind up feeling like you are dragging the party down because you didn't go into it with 100% perfect everything.

And maybe raiders will say, "You don't NEED to be 100% perfect to clear" but that is absolutely the perception from casual players like me who watch raiders spend millions of gil overmelding and getting their hands on the absolute best of everything.

TL DR High-end content feels extremely intimidating and insurmountable for most casual players due to the perceived expectations placed on them. Therefore, they get sad that they are missing out on cosmetics that they feel like they cannot and will not ever get.

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What? If you meld the wrong materia you can just remove it, which might break most materia, but it is cheaper than gear. Unless you're doing week 1 Savage raiding I don't see anyone with penta gear sets for any extreme farms, which I started a few weeks ago. Also, for raid food, you can just look it up on Icy-Veins site, which holds all the BiS gear guides too.

I've def caused wipes during my fresh prog in Extremes but no one said anything or were rude to me like PF is truly random ppl who you will never meet again unless you're being toxic to be blacklisted. Also, if the party is not working out, you can just say bye and join another listing or host your own PF.

If raiding itself is completely off the table, the hairstyle is 29m on aether DC too, along with the mount.

Problem for most is not that the content is difficult, but that it’s pseudo difficulty by forcing it to be a multiplayer choreography despite the game not having any real cooperative mechanics and that finding 7 other people you can somehow tolerate in a sea of unemployed antisocials and mental illness is simply not worth the time of your life.

GIVE US THE HAIR NOW WE DO NOT WANT TO PUT IN ANY EFFORT INTO ANYTHING

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Agree with that, but there is also the elephant in the room of why a highly-desirable cosmetic item was locked behind savage-level content, particularly when it had absolutely no thematic link to that content.

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Because this is a computer game that requires an active subscription, the goal of the company making this product is to get people to spend their time (and therefore money) with this game. It's very much the entertainment value, of doing some game activity, and then getting a reward for it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It seems probable this was another failed attempt by SE to funnel non-raiders into content they do not like.

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No one is forced to do anything, stop sounding like some crazy conspiracy theorist. This is an entertainment product made by a privately owned business, not some government agency which the population is forced to engage with.

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

By all means, if you or anyone else finds someone demanding savage rewards without doing savage, point me in their direction and I'll laugh at them with you because that's just silly.

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Sure thing, here you go:

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

If it were up to me, fancy glowy weapons and gear would be the only things locked behind savage, tbh.

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This whole "but customization shouldn't be locked behind anything" tirade isn't an argument, it's merely your opinion. You simply drew an arbitrary line around certain kinds of items, according to your personal taste.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

No one is forced to do anything, stop sounding like some crazy conspiracy theorist. This is an entertainment product made by a privately owned business, not some government agency which the population is forced to engage with.

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Allen, please calm down. I never claimed anyone was being forced to do anything.

Does it not seem probable to you that placing attractive (and expensive!) rewards behind CAR was SE encouraging people to engage with the content? And given raiders are going to do raids anyway for some reason, a cosmetic item was included to appeal specifically to non-raiders?

We need these things for an economy. Because some players are unwilling to work for it, that makes it worth gil.
If they want it, they should make gil to get it. If they don't want to do even that...? Then there's no point to having a videogame and they would be better served unsubbing and playing with a model viewer.

Truth be told I thought they learned this lesson with the hairstyle that was locked behind Delubrum Reginae, and that's why they added the capability to purchase it later on for coins.

After doing that instance 72 times to get the hairstyle, yeah I'm kinda done with THAT noise. It's fine making things take some time to get, but the reasons and method are both wrong.

It would have been better it if wasn’t as rare. On paper the idea of something you either get from the content or from the marketboard seems fine, like Bozja hairstyles. I don’t want to do Bozja but can can buy them. Same with treasure map glams.

But this hairstyle was too hard to get. The chance of any given Party Finder group actually clearing the fight felt a lot less likely than an Extreme or a first floor Savage raid. And then the drop itself was really rare, and also cost a large amount of demimateria if someone wanted to trade then for it. The grind for it was awful, and then the prices on the marketboard were also awful. The situation sucked all around.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

This whole "but customization shouldn't be locked behind anything" tirade isn't an argument, it's merely your opinion. You simply drew an arbitrary line around certain kinds of items, according to your personal taste.

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"That's just your opinion" is the argument you make when you've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard that you've hit bedrock. How a video game should or shouldn't work, from a player's perspective, is purely subjective. Your opinions are also just opinions.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The issue isn't entitlement. It's more acknowledging a contributing factor of the issue on threads such as you yourself have made.

SE > Adds cosmetic item to game, locked behind savage.

Some raiders > It's not so much fun, why are there so many damn casuals that can barely handle AoEs in my savage parties?!?

Someone acknowledging the issue > This is what happens when you put cosmetic items behind savage. It will attract casual players into high-end content, that will suddenly want to do it for the reward, even if they aren't prepared.

Someone not actually reading the comments > CASUALS ARE SO ENTITLED THEY WANT THE REWARD FOR NO EFFORT.

There's several issues going on here, and not really correlated to entitlement. Most of the casuals that want this cosmetic are already trying to do the content. If people are proposing ideas then it is only to combat SEs fairly bad design.

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Can be bought on market board .so it's basically a lazy argument on casual players

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Originally Posted by IndraSyngiwyb

I think it's less so entitlement and more so just being bummed that such cosmetics seem beyond them. Speaking as a casual player who doesn't do high-end content, there is a reason I don't. And it's not because the content itself is too hard. It's because of how intimidating the preparations are.

You need to have the best current gear, preferably overmelded with the best and CORRECT materia. Perfect stats. Best high-end raid-tier food. Etc.

When a person who wants to attempt savage sees all of these things they have to do, they will have one of two reactions.

1.) All right, this is fine.

2.) *petrified with anxiety*

Number 2 happens a lot because no one wants to be the one who accidentally melded the wrong materia, didn't overmeld at all because they couldn't afford it, or ate the wrong food. Because then you wind up feeling like you are dragging the party down because you didn't go into it with 100% perfect everything.

And maybe raiders will say, "You don't NEED to be 100% perfect to clear" but that is absolutely the perception from casual players like me who watch raiders spend millions of gil overmelding and getting their hands on the absolute best of everything.

TL DR High-end content feels extremely intimidating and insurmountable for most casual players due to the perceived expectations placed on them. Therefore, they get sad that they are missing out on cosmetics that they feel like they cannot and will not ever get.

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I get that n tbh it was my first high end content. Theres a wonderful n organized discord for chaotic raids n similar stuff like BA or even NA progs savage to help dip ur feet into it. These groups r way more nicer than some ppl youd encounter in pf. Give it a try!!
It might be deadish content but RADAR still does some learning runs here and there :)

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Allen, please calm down. I never claimed anyone was being forced to do anything.

Does it not seem probable to you that placing attractive (and expensive!) rewards behind CAR was SE encouraging people to engage with the content? And given raiders are going to do raids anyway for some reason, a cosmetic item was included to appeal specifically to non-raiders?

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SE could put it in some content that would be more friendly to those have work or life commitments that couldn’t spend fix hours for high end raid.

It could be a long grind like how old relic. Chaotic would still be the fastest way to obtain it, but given alternative way of acquiring some very popular item is not going to hurt anyone but rather a win win situation

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I never claimed anyone was being forced to do anything.

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Your rhetoric of "SE funneling players into content they don't want to do" is bonkers. I can't overstate enough just how completely mad it is. You fail to grasp that the reward system plays an integral part in creating the entertainment value of this entertainment product in the first place, which is the main motivation for this company to even bother paying people to create it. Instead you create this narrative that somehow SE seems to have meetings where they brainstorm how they can "deny" their playerbase something, when it's actually the other way around. Especially given that one of the main criticisms of criterion was the rather lackluster rewards for how difficult it was. Even the creation of CODCAR itself was wished for quite frequently by the community ("hard 24 man content").

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Does it not seem probable to you that placing attractive (and expensive!) rewards behind CAR was SE encouraging people to engage with the content? And given raiders are going to do raids anyway for some reason, a cosmetic item was included to appeal specifically to non-raiders?

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"raiders", "non-raiders". Your essentialism is disgusting, absolutely disgusting. "cosmetic item to appeal specifically to non-raiders" is the biggest self report on your entitlement you can give. Because there is absolutely nothing about this hairstyle that has anything to do with whether or not someone engages in high-end combat duties or not, except if that someone doesn't engage in them but feels entitled to the rewards. Given that it can be bought on the MB only further emphasizes the already ridiculous amounts of entitlement on display.

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Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

"That's just your opinion" is the argument you make when you've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard that you've hit bedrock. How a video game should or shouldn't work, from a player's perspective, is purely subjective. Your opinions are also just opinions.

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No, for the poster I replied to it's about their opinion, because they make an arbitrary decision that the reward allowed for difficult content should be exclusively what the poster was isn't interested in (glowy weapons and gear). This is a video game, a proper reward structure makes up a significant appeal of this type of game. If "doing game activity to get reward of that activity" is not compelling to you, you are playing the wrong type of game. Taking this reward structure away or limiting it to only "uninteresting" items just so a fringe minority who doesn't have any drive actually playing the video game that they pay for, risks the game itself. Just look at the graveyard of zombie MMOs out there which shower the player in gear and over-the-top flashy cosmetics from the start, often with cash shops to just outright buy everything and circumvent the necessity of actually playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

SE could put it in some content that would be more friendly to those have work or life commitments that couldn’t spend fix hours for high end raid.

It could be a long grind like how old relic. Chaotic would still be the fastest way to obtain it, but given alternative way of acquiring some very popular item is not going to hurt anyone but rather a win win situation

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It already exists, it's called the market board using "gil" as currency. Do whatever activity you fancy to accrue gil instead of doing CODCAR, then just buy the hairstyle.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

"raiders", "non-raiders". Your essentialism is disgusting, absolutely disgusting. "cosmetic item to appeal specifically to non-raiders" is the biggest self report on your entitlement you can give. Because there is absolutely nothing about this hairstyle that has anything to do with whether or not someone engages in high-end combat duties or not, except if that someone doesn't engage in them but feels entitled to the rewards. Given that it can be bought on the MB only further emphasizes the already ridiculous amounts of entitlement on display.

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Disgusting? Really? I do apologize that I disgust you.

As does reality, apparently? There are those that raid in this game, and those that do not.

Not following the self-reporting thing, though. If I wanted the hairstyle I would buy it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Disgusting? Really? I do apologize that I disgust you.

As does reality, apparently? There are those that raid in this game, and those that do not.

Not following the self-reporting thing, though. If I wanted the hairstyle I would buy it.

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And there are those of us who would love some of the Glams and weapons that can only be obtained through playing high-end content but are not good enough to play that content and therefore have to accept that the aforementioned items will never be in their inventory.

Having some things locked behind hard content is fine, raiders can farm it and then later sell it for profit so casual players can buy it off the marketboard, it's a healthy player economy! :)
What casual players need are more reliable ways to earn gil (without playing the market) or for the hairstyle value to drop since I doubt many casual players have ~30mil gil. :(

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Originally Posted by XtremePrime

Having some things locked behind hard content is fine, raiders can farm it and then later sell it for profit so casual players can buy it off the marketboard, it's a healthy player economy! :)
What casual players need are more reliable ways to earn gil (without playing the market) or for the hairstyle value to drop since I doubt many casual players have ~30mil gil. :(

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some doesn't craft either making it harder for those

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

It already exists, it's called the market board using "gil" as currency. Do whatever activity you fancy to accrue gil instead of doing CODCAR, then just buy the hairstyle.

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so to you everyone that have a life aren't allowed to the armor nor hairstyle correct so it disgust you weird because what disgust me is people who think like you. some people doesn't want to scrap they're sleep schedule for something but again this is a raiders mentality but eh you be you right?

Having misread the thread's title I expected this to be another complaint about Cosmic Exploration:

"Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmic items added in game?"