PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

I don't think anyone can argue that the "order" of DPS/mitigation is incorrect. Warriors should do the most damage in dps and tank stances, but mitigate a tiny bit less. Dark Knights should be "mid tier", and stronger on magical damage. Paladins should be lowest dps, highest physical, slightly behind DRK on magical, with the DPS made up for via slightly more utility. That's how it is, that's how the classes have been sold to us, and that's how it should be.

Making comparisons that because, say, Sentinel is 10% better than Shadow Wall during its 10 second uptime means that Dark Knights need 5% more damage in x situation is kind of spurious and highly subjective. Overall balance matters and it's due to the complete package of how much weight a raid group places on the various strengths and weaknesses.

I think most peoples' issue with the current balance is:

1 - right now DPS is exponentially more important than overall tank mitigation for successful encounters
2 - the difference in DPS levels in "average" practical raid situations is really rather big
3 - the actual difference in mitigation levels is comparatively minor compared to the DPS differences.

This creates a situation where all 3 tanks are in the right place in terms of the order of their power levels, but the balance is swayed heavily in favor of Warrior. Noone wants paladins doing more or even equal dps to a Warrior. Everyone would be happy with paladin being behind dark knight too.

The class just desperately needs some quality of life buffs (read : basically threat, some "clunk" removed) that lets it push out its optimal DPS levels much more frequently and thus close the huge gap between itself and the other tanks in practical (not dummy/pure OT) situations.

Threat, clunk removal and something done about magic defense if they insist on magic damage for tank busters.

I'm of the mindset that no tank buster should require an external cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

I'm of the mindset that no tank buster should require an external cooldown.

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I think this mindset only really works for WoW-style tanking where mitigation was a bit more constantly active but tanks only had 1-2 actual big Oh Shit cooldowns.

I like the cooldown management aspect of FF, it's the only part that makes the damage-taking part of tanking actually somewhat skillful, but if they negate the need for cooldowns outside of moments when things are messing up they need to remove a lot of cooldowns and turn them into more active/interesting tanking skills. Or just make them passive.

It's not that hard to understand. If you want to make mitigation matter and tank CDs matter, you mix both. You have high sustained and consistent raid damage AND must mitigate tank busters. And, the damage needs to be high enough that healers will run oom well before any breaks from heal spam. The type of environment where swapping to a DPS stance as a tank is auto death and inefficiency with your cool downs leads to certain death. That's the only situation where any difference in mitigation matters. So, by no coincidence, you take the current state of DPS checks and you apply the same extremity to mitigation. Tanks are getting dropped from raid content because of a 10~15% difference in DPS. If you want to make mitigation matter, then tanks should be getting dropped from raid content because of a 10~15% difference in mitigation.

Until you do that, any talk about PLD mitigation mattering is just talk.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

If you want to make mitigation matter, then tanks should be getting dropped from raid content because of a 10~15% difference in mitigation.

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Tanks shouldn't be getting dropped from raid content to begin with. :V

It's more a response to the morons that think it's actually an equivalent trade off.

I only skimmed the last page's shitshow, but shields are kinda overrated as far as passive mitigation goes. Hive is a bit under 5% when averaged and can either be pretty good or pretty bad depending on what it decides to block. Halone is what really gives paladin an edge over DRK for physical damage and you should really be arguing that if you're looking for a reason to keep paladin in its crappy place.

Though I don't really think paladin necessarily needs (or would be "fixed" by) more DPS, I would like for a lot of its crap to be cleaned up. Shield Swipe could be such a cool ability but ends up being so anemic, our unique utility ends up being unique to the point where it doesn't do anything most of the time, and our stances don't do anything to our abilities. Fixing that stuff up (and traits that aren't just "makes this ability do what it should do by default") would incidentally probably bump up DPS a little bit.

Even if paladin matched DRK DPS 100% and had infinite threat, it would still be a gimp compared to Dark Knight in a fight like A4S. A lot of it has to do with fight design but some of it comes down to the magic-only tools being way better than the physical-only tools. I don't think the advantages should be that heavy in either direction.

A list of simple changes I think would help PLD in its lack of magic mitigation, utility & dps (in MT/AoE scenarios, where there is absolutely no argument against it being sorely lacking), note that not all would necessarily be applied at the same time (although I think if all were, PLD still wouldn't be a threat to WAR, but in a good enough place where SE can move on to DRK):

Shield Swipe oGCD, 0tp, 10s recast - Mildly more active class

RoH either 6x hate mod or 280 pot and 5.5x hate mod - Ease the hate requirements on sword oath tanking almost closing the gap to deliverance or no grit tanking

Divine Veil either 1 (2?) min CD or double shield potency - This ability is currently just underwhelming

Clemency sub 2s cast, maybe instant, oGCD with 5s recast. still MP gated, no longer too clunky to use

Clemency and Divine viel strengths based off of weapon damage alone - stops STR/VIT builds making the abilities weak whilst preventing pentas being even more OP if based on both.

Royal Authority costs 50tp - blood weapon buff has left PLD behind (2:30 to run dry vs 3:15 for DRK or never for WAR)


Sword Oath:
Increase SW potency to 500 - better reward for good stance dancing, small boost to bring PLD in line with DRK
Shelltron retaliates with a 100 pot attack on a 10x hate mod - more interesting than a hate buff to the old 1 2 3
CoS Pot and DoT doubled - PLD needs at least a small AoE boost bad.


Shield Oath:
Shelltron blocks magic attacks, gain 50tp if physical - Only magical boost, not trying to kill DRK, tp boost makes up for reduced RA use, trade off on magic foes!
Shield swipe is now conal - Again, PLD needs AoE help bad, this route is nice and active but not always up hence sword oath boost.

PLD currently has underwhelming rewards for good stance dancing and a large swap cost, half of the stuff above is to address that by making a lot of the boosts (rather than the flat out 'SE you screwed up' fixes closer to the top) stance dependant. The extra 200 SW pot helps offset the GCD cost for swapping to sword oath.

On a side note, I still think WAR has far too easy of a time stance dancing, they used to at least lose stacks and not get 0 TP using GCDs while DPSing in 2.0, but now stance dancing and TP management come far too easy to the class, for this purpose I think a 100tp cost should be added to both Defiance and Deliverance, tuneable but simply there to make WAR stance swapping require some level of decision making like the other two classes.

the way i see is this
PLD = good for Physical type enemies
War = good damage good defence but mostly to self sustain (my opinion is warrior is the middle ground)
DRK = good for magic type enemies.

any sort of correction would be nice to better my understanding

Die thread Die!!!


#DarkWarriordin

Divine Veil - Rework Divine Veil to a buff that lasts 20 seconds. Every combo'd Goring, Halone, or Royal Authority while active grants a personal shield for 8% of the PLDs maximum health, for a total of around 3 shields during the duration if timed properly. Remove the current effect since it is too niche.

Flash - Significantly buff the enmity modifier on Flash, or add 50 potency to it so it can compete in AOE with other tank classes.

Shield Swipe - Add a small frontal cone AOE effect to Shield Swipe. Keep ON the GCD and remove or halve the TP cost.

Sheltron - Make it capable of blocking physical AND magical attacks and add a 20 TP regeneration on block.

Bulwark - Add an effect that reflects 20% of the blocked damage to the attacker when active.

Sword Oath - Increase the potency by 10.

Rage of Halone - Increase potency from 260 to 280 or increase the enmity modifier on it.

Clemency - Reduce the cast time.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I think this mindset only really works for WoW-style tanking where mitigation was a bit more constantly active but tanks only had 1-2 actual big Oh Shit cooldowns.

I like the cooldown management aspect of FF, it's the only part that makes the damage-taking part of tanking actually somewhat skillful, but if they negate the need for cooldowns outside of moments when things are messing up they need to remove a lot of cooldowns and turn them into more active/interesting tanking skills. Or just make them passive.

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I have a shit ton of CDs. I shouldn't need an external.

biggest difference is the MT damage atm, so why not have sword and shield oath work simultaneously?!

also str down should be moved to royal authority and halone's enmity mod should then be in line with butcher's and power slash.

(can't really buff OT dmg, cause of PLD's utility skills, if those are useful atm is a whole different story though)

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

biggest difference is the MT damage atm, so why not have sword and shield oath work simultaneously?!

also str down should be moved to royal authority and halone's enmity mod should then be in line with butcher's and power slash.

(can't really buff OT dmg, cause of PLD's utility skills, if those are useful atm is a whole different story though)

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I'd rather add than remove. STR down at lower levels is good(RA at 60) and it'd mean I don't *need* to use Halone as much.

As it is, I can't use RA much because there's no hate mod on it or I lose it to my OT. And when I *do* use it, STR down falls off more than I'd like.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Going back through the thread is becoming increasingly hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Going back through the thread is becoming increasingly hilarious.

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Wow, a list of guilds / people I can report for cheating. =P

I'm kidding, but you may want to write off names.

Honestly, they should trade the strength down debuff from DRK and give the Int debuff to Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Going back through the thread is becoming increasingly hilarious.

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I stumbled upon a nice post a few pages back:

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Except if they're played as aggressively as a WAR or DRK and have slashing rebuff, either from WAR or a NIN, then they're still competitive to the point that the damage difference is negligible unless you're pushing for clears while under geared.

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It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

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Just want to point out 2 things:

1. WAR's encounter time is 5:00, PLD's is 6:46
2. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1572848/

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

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My point is that the numbers are skewed due to the length of the fights. Tanks aren't the only ones hitting the boss, fyi. :V There are a lot of factors to take into account that can't be taken into account with a leader board like that. It's pointless to try and compare numbers that way.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

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I have beaten every SMN on that leaderboard by far in A1S, with a shitty comp, and I can tell you having a high score doesn't mean anything about class balance. Why? Because my gear and my kill time are superior to anyone else trying right now. The results are pretty skewed right now, everyone's got a different scenario going. My point by that is, I wouldn't use that as proof of anything since it's a situation with a lot of variables, like gear, kill time, comp, who actually uses the class (I coulda gone BLM and have never beaten these people in the SMN category because I didn't play it).

The biggest flaw in pointing at that leaderboard and saying oh my, PLD DPS sure can't happen in a real fight in any way, is the top groups are running DRK anyway. DRK's in a better spot, this is undeniable, so your speed pushers, your groups trying for good DPS, are going to use DRK since it's better for the encounters in question. I am sure some of those 900+ WARs and DRKs could, if they so chose to gear and use PLD, get very close using the same tactics, but they're not going to for a while. It's a bit like looking at healer DPS and saying, the top AST is doing way less than SCH/WHM, when 99% of groups run SCH/WHM to begin with, though of course not that extreme.

You'll also get some people who do well who DGAF to post their numbers. I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

You'll also get some people who do well who DGAF to post their numbers. I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

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The thing about paladin dps though is it's incredibly -easy-. DRK and WAR actually have quite a bit of thought in their dps rotation - managing when to fell cleave within berserk windows, the mana/wrath management, so many different options for Dark Arts, multiple DPS cooldowns on Warrior....

... on Paladin you literally sit in Sword Oath as much as possible and just go Goring/Royal/Royal, keeping FoF, Circle and Spirits on cooldown, with a teeny bit of optimisation on the first FoF to ensure you get two Gorings and two Circle out of it. That's it.

Whilst I don't disagree with your point, Paladin DPS is very very easy to optimise in terms of the mechanical play of the Paladin. The tricky part is in actually having windows in which you can DO that rotation. The fact that we've seen no paladins approaching the values of WAR and DRK just shows more that it's very difficult to find the windows in a fight that allow that, more than saying the paladins on the leaderboard need to git gud.

It's why most Paladins arent actually crying for a Potency Increase, we're just wanting threat/quality of life boosts that let us sit in our DPS stance and actually do our dps rotation without losing huge amounts of DPS every time we need to worry about hate.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Whilst I don't disagree with your point, Paladin DPS is very very easy to optimise in terms of the mechanical play of the Paladin. The tricky part is in actually having windows in which you can DO that rotation. The fact that we've seen no paladins approaching the values of WAR and DRK just shows more that it's very difficult to find the windows in a fight that allow that, more than saying the paladins on the leaderboard need to git gud.

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I don't believe the PLDs on that leaderboard who are doing significantly less than the DRK/WARs in A1 and A3 are necessarily playing sub-optimally or need to git gud, TBH. They are probably doing their rotation with 95-100% efficiency. It's all about comp and kill speed and gear, once you've settled on going Sword Oath as much as possible, and that's where I think the major difference is going to be. As I mentioned I believe, a lot of these good groups including mine who've beaten A1S and A3S in good clear times just aren't using PLD period because there's not much point.

Don't get me wrong, I've experienced PLD Sword aggro, it's terrible and needs to get buffed pretty bad. I agree with most of the people at this point who want a little love on PLD, but it has to be in the right places; TP, Shield Swipe potency, and aggro. Just, posting leaderboard results as proof that PLD's potential is 70% of DRK and WAR is very flawed to me.

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

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Oh hey, that PLD is me!! I'm sure I can push over 800, but I don't get a slashing down because of our A1S tactic since we split our DPS 2-2 and our NIN stays on the WAR's to Aeolian spam. I spent a total of 2 GCD's on one stance dance the entire fight because I saw a messy situation where the healers needed help right before the tank buster, but even then it shouldn't have been a major dps loss. Riot > Sentinel > Goring + tankbuster starts cast > ShO > SwO > back to the good fight

That aside, me pushing a theory-800 still pales in comparison to top WARs and DRKs. I understand doing a lot less than a WAR, but I honestly don't feel like it's fair being 150 dps behind a DRK because of a shield that doesn't have amazing returns in savage + a 7 minute cd feasible maybe once (yeah yeah, sometimes twice) a fight + lacking the ability to reliably lower raid magic damage (don't give me that "divine veil" arguement, Cascade in A3S is every 70 or so seconds and dv is on a 150 cd vs Delirium + a good chance to proc reprisal with a well timed dark dance).

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

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Also, I don't feel like im "creme de la creme", but I only spent 1 GCD (that didn't even break my combo luckily, see above) that in shield oath. Potted twice and put my FoF's behind goring. Outside of having getting the NIN to dancing edge for me (so that he gets a dps loss instead lol?), I don't see how I can push that number much further (aside from gear obviously). I definitely agree with adjustments to TP / Shield Swipe / Aggro, but potency+offensive adjustments do need to be made too. Getting an extra 50 potency auto attack that doesn't even affect my weaponskills does not even slightly compare to WAR's x1.05 deliverance + x1.20 maim and DRK's x1.15 darkside modifiers that apply to all their weapon skills AND auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by AIex

Also, I don't feel like im "creme de la creme", but I only spent 1 GCD (that didn't even break my combo luckily, see above) that in shield oath. Potted twice and put my FoF's behind goring. Outside of having getting the NIN to dancing edge for me (so that he gets a dps loss instead lol?), I don't see how I can push that number much further (aside from gear obviously). I definitely agree with adjustments to TP / Shield Swipe / Aggro, but potency+offensive adjustments do need to be made too. Getting an extra 50 potency auto attack that doesn't even affect my weaponskills does not even slightly compare to WAR's x1.05 deliverance + x1.20 maim and DRK's x1.15 darkside modifiers that apply to all their weapon skills AND auto attacks.

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Well, you're admitting you could have a better parse if the NIN was on you, regardless of if you feel it's the right decision or not; guarantee any DRK or WAR at the top had a NIN on them. Speaking of that, you should probably have the NIN on your Oppressor IMO, the NIN loses a little DPS but if you're in Sword Oath, your active 80+ DPS gain while he's applying DE will be more than he loses by going away from WAR. That applies to DRK too.

A1's a goofy fight. It's not even just about how many jumps you get, it's about how long you spend in a phase after jumps too. From a 6:50ish clear I'm guessing you had 2 jumps and a bit of time into your phase. Anyone getting 1 jump and getting a bit into their phase is going to destroy you no matter what if they play on point, because they don't have to stand around for literally 30s doing nothing. You'll push that number much further when you skip jump 2. You'll notice some of the top numbers are distinctly 5m or less, which is why they're so inflated compared to most of the parses on there.

At the end of the day, DRK is just plain better A1S, it's designed at its core to be a WAR WAR or WAR DRK. Arguably A3S, definitely A4S. More DPS from PLD won't fix that, but it will make future content rougher to balance if PLD's scoring DRK level damage in Shield Oath.

I've said this since 2.0, flash should never have been allowed to be cross classed as an AOE move.

In 1.0, the "aoe" part of flash was a trait you learned as you lvled up. Now, the trait you get is "added blindness". Which, also is really silly because it only works on trash (bosses either resist it *current titan*, or have such high accuracy its ineffective). To top it off "blindness" is only a -% to accuracy to the mob, and not a straight miss.

Flash in ff11 was a guaranteed chance that the mob would miss the next physical attack; though it was only single target. So in that case, it was both an enmity and a mitigation move.

Obviously now, there's very little reason for war/drk to use flash; unlike how it was used pre-heavensward. This is another example of stuff left over by the devs that hasn't been updated/flushed out yet.

I've seen tons of ideas going around about how to change pld, and most of them are probably better than what the dev team will come up with. I'm still baffled that pld being the supposed "highest mitigation tank" has the exact same physical/magical defense as the other two tanks.

I never was a fan of the shield system that was implemented, and found the variety of shield types to be extremely flawed. I also still find it hilarious that a pld is unable to hide behind their shield, to block ranged magic projectiles. Apparently the devs are scared that the shield would melt on contact.

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Originally Posted by Xyphon

I've said this since 2.0, flash should never have been allowed to be cross classed as an AOE move.

I've seen tons of ideas going around about how to change pld, and most of them are probably better than what the dev team will come up with. I'm still baffled that pld being the supposed "highest mitigation tank" has the exact same physical/magical defense as the other two tanks.

I never was a fan of the shield system that was implemented, and found the variety of shield types to be extremely flawed. I also still find it hilarious that a pld is unable to hide behind their shield, to block ranged magic projectiles. Apparently the devs are scared that the shield would melt on contact.

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Amen my friend, you are 100% correct. This post has around 540 replies, and 40k views, and yet not in the dev tracker. Its like our PLD suggestion are just going nowhere.

Each tank has to have it's own trade off and that is just the way it will be. You cannot have them all doing the same dps when their other skills are vastly different. I think once their is more gear people will go back to Pally for the defensive cooldowns that can make the fights much easier.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

I think once their is more gear people will go back to Pally for the defensive cooldowns that can make the fights much easier.

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This is just what we needed—More fodder! This post needs to reach 600! LET THE BATTLE BEGIN ANEW!

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

Each tank has to have it's own trade off and that is just the way it will be. You cannot have them all doing the same dps when their other skills are vastly different. I think once their is more gear people will go back to Pally for the defensive cooldowns that can make the fights much easier.

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a bard talking bout PLD please k. Only those who have been PLDs for a while can say what PLD needs or doesn't need. People who are PLD wouldn't be saying these stuff it they weren't true. I don't see any war saying anything bout WAR, why? because they are already good.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

ok so my pld ilevel 186 bairly does 815dps in sword oath on dummy 200 blade
dark same ilevel like gear 180 wep 950+
war same ilevel gear again with 180 wep 1050+

So plds need to be fixed majorly because this is a bad joke and my rotations are optimized before any one says anything like git gud.

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TBH I am okay w their current DPS, the only thing that needs is development in the fun zone and change some skills like shield swipe. SE meant for PLD to be defensive I get that, adding more dps is ehhh ( like ppl say if PLD reached Drk or War dps, that is bad). They should give us more defense though, so we become the true defense kings.

inb4 sword oath pot raised to 80/90 to match auto attack pot.

I think getting rid of the stance penalties would do more than a simple potency change. Would be nice to you know, DPS in Sword Oath then actually be able to swap to Shield Oath for tank busters without A. Losing our combo, B. getting stuck on a GCD, and C. Losing 1/5 of our mp. I just don't see why PLD's have to suffer like that when every other stance job an flip through them on the fly.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

snip

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I can agree you make some good points here but we still have a major problem: What can be done to justify bringing PLD to a progression team? We all know for a fact PLD's are not better offensively than the other two, but on top of that, anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that PLD's are also not defensively better than the other two in savage. I could list the reasons why, but it would be a long post that has probably been done before.

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Originally Posted by AIex

I can agree you make some good points here but we still have a major problem: What can be done to justify bringing PLD to a progression team? We all know for a fact PLD's are not better offensively than the other two, but on top of that, anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that PLD's are also not defensively better than the other two in savage. I could list the reasons why, but it would be a long post that has probably been done before.

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Watch people be like "you have Hallow Ground" and "your sentinel has higher def."

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Originally Posted by AIex

I can agree you make some good points here but we still have a major problem: What can be done to justify bringing PLD to a progression team? We all know for a fact PLD's are not better offensively than the other two, but on top of that, anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that PLD's are also not defensively better than the other two in savage. I could list the reasons why, but it would be a long post that has probably been done before.

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If absolutely nothing is done balance wise, and the fights are the same as they are now in the future, there'd be no reason. Savage as we know it, well, the 2 hard fights mainly but overall:

- Lots of magic tank busters
- Enrages designed around weeks of gear on A3/A4
- Magic raid AoE damage, as almost always
- Bosses that hit like children for sustained damage, only spiking up for cleaves and tank busters

It's the perfect storm for DRK, and knowing SE's history, most of this isn't exactly new (the enrages being so real in entry gear is the newest of the batch arguably) and probably will stay staple for the most part. You're correct that DRK had no power in progression other than A2S this time around.

That said, let's flip a known fight around, in theory. Let's say ... A3S. Imagine this stuff:

- Instead of magical, the stomps were physical, RoH works on them
- The cleaves in the final part of the fight were legitimate tank busters all the way, so that Sheltron and Bulwark go from something quite nice on them to holy moly this is a serious life saver stuff right now. Make the cleaves something that DRK can survive but needs serious babying and to stretch all its CDs for, not some half-assed mini tank busters.
- Make the enrage less strenuous, enough that the difference between DRK and PLD wouldn't have made or broken the clear week 2.
- The tethers in add phase and tornado phase do just enough damage that tanks have to eat them but they don't require CDs to live through

How much you wanna bet PLD + WAR would be the stock, go to, world 1st/2nd/3rd comp for that fight? Those are extreme shifts in the fight, of course, and I'm sure no one thinks it should be that way (including me, this is just a thought experiment!), but basically the way it works, it's the opposite right now where everything is in DRK's favor. Of the two, only DRK can debuff the stomps + Protean, only DRK can take the truly deadly tank buster tethers without even saving CDs for it, only DRK can easily and comfortably stay in tank stance and provide a good amount of DPS (Sword vs no Grit is a wildly different story).

Shoot, maybe in an alternate universe where A3S turned out like that, instead of topics saying "Buff PLD DPS, its survivability isn't needed!" you'd get topics saying, "Buff DRK's survivability, its DPS doesn't justify how bad it is at surviving A3S!" I'm just saying, the fights are making everyone go DRK crazy, rightfully so for now in fact. The only true issues are the 3 I mentioned earlier, TP/aggro/possibly Shield, and the whole bringing a NIN thing over a MNK for even more progression DPS. Everything else is a product of what we're fighting.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I think getting rid of the stance penalties would do more than a simple potency change. Would be nice to you know, DPS in Sword Oath then actually be able to swap to Shield Oath for tank busters without A. Losing our combo, B. getting stuck on a GCD, and C. Losing 1/5 of our mp. I just don't see why PLD's have to suffer like that when every other stance job an flip through them on the fly.

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Dark Knight actually has a substantial penalty for going into Grit - even worse than paladin. They do have an easier time switching into damage mode, though, since they don't have a DPS stance and are balanced as such.

PLD gets Healer LB3? :D <3

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Let's be honest, who doesn't just want Stasis Sword as an instant cast spell?

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What PLD does not want this??

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Originally Posted by Tadus

Amen my friend, you are 100% correct. This post has around 540 replies, and 40k views, and yet not in the dev tracker. Its like our PLD suggestion are just going nowhere.

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Probably due to the mixed bag of people going back and forth. ;x Should instead make a single forum post for people to "sign" that pld needs updates. If anything that seems to get SE's attention right away. It did with PvP anyway. T-T