Instanced Raids Unveiled!

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Originally Posted by Archadius

I totally pictured something from Killer Instinct like a 56-hit combo then an ominous voice out of nowhere "OUTSTANDING!!" "KILLER COMBO!!"

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Or shao kahn "OUTSTANDING!!" Thats what came mind for me.

Focant and Tirion, great posts guys. You two seem to understand not having a cap isn't a big deal nor affects the people looking for a challenge, now I wish other people would understand that too. :/

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

How often can you enter an instanced raid?
After entering once, you will need to wait a period of time before you can re-enter. (The time has yet to be finalized)

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Regarding the re-entering I hope it's not too long... Given we have two to run starting with 1.18, but if it's set to the same 36 hour cool down that the leves are, I think that wouldn't go over well...

"Sorry everyone, can't join tonight, got to wait until reset to help you out"...

My vote is to set the cool down to the amount of time you spend in the dungeon. Spend 1 hour, have an hour cool down. Assuming that you can extend the amount of time above the 60 minutes then this would work as well, spend three hours in the dungeon then you have a three hour cool down.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Focant

If a rank 50 wants to get some buddies together and steamroll the dungeon then whatever, that's a challenge and fun they've missed out on.

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I am totally fine with that being an option, as long as they don't get any good/rare items for steamrolling the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Focant

What happened to making informed decisions? How can you demand change for something you know nothing about? Isn't experience and familiarity valued over theory and assumptions? Seriously, wait to experience it. See if it's really as bad as you say, and THEN change it. Why change something because you "think" it'll be bad but have no real reason to assume such?

It's fine to be worried and skeptical and to discuss it as such, but to DEMAND change based on something so insubstantial is just ridiculous.

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I full heartly agree with this! Again the devolpment team shares information with us, and all people do is get on here and flame up the threads with hate! I just dont get it... You want answers then there given too u, and you act like infants that dont get your way. Cmon grow up, show some respect for the people that are working around the damn clock. "Not literarlly". So dont try to throw that in my face, thx. Moving on, this is amazing information to get and im very excited to get any new content to the game. For all the people that keep flaming SE, lets see u make a epic MMO that has all the elements u see working. Then take some hard critisim for all your hard work, and i promise u will change your tone! Again i say heres to being optimistic, and thank you SE for your hard work and understanding through these changes. I am a fanboy, and i will stand behind SE until they are no longer around. I wont bite the hand that feeds me. I will be loyal, and understanding. If i ever feel the other way, i will walk away and not look back. I wouldnt leave hate, and flame the devolpers about the game. Maybe thats just me being humble, and knowing my place.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

It's one thing sitting out because you have too many show up, but quite another to sit out because you're one or two members short of the requirement. No one is asking to enter this dungeon with 9 or 10 people. We're asking to enter it with 6-7 in a situation where 12-15 people show up. If 9 turn up then tough luck on the 9th, but the content should be manageable (although more difficult) with 6 or 7. The fact the developers are willing to consider lowering the requirement at all tells you this.

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If a group of 6-7 playere are able to finish it(even with more difficulty) the whole purpose of balancing it around 8 players is stupid. Endgame in XIV is gonna be tuned for 8man PTs. You knew that since the Letter from the Producer from the beginning of the year...if you're now getting "angry" about that, go figure...I'm not against being able to ENTER the dungeon with less than 8 people, cause that requirement seems kinda strange...but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand. Its tuned for 8 and its gonna be difficult for 8, making it possible to beat with less than 8, makes the whole reason of it being tuned for 8 obsolete.

Once people get better gear over time and stuff, the challenge will be less and less for 8man groups(and groups of 6-7 might be able to beat it)...but that's where new content tuned for those people should be rdy so...this is an endless cycle and if they start making it faceroll from the getgo...I'm done and say goodbye.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I am totally fine with that being an option, as long as they don't get any good/rare items for steamrolling the dungeon.

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they can get the same 30 gear you can get at 30
if they want the better stuff they can go do the 50 dungeon

as we have stated SEVERAL times before but you just dont seem to understand that concept

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I am totally fine with that being an option, as long as they don't get any good/rare items for steamrolling the dungeon.

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If you're R50 and get equip from that R30 dungeon its only a temporary thing anyway...so what's the point? You won't get any R/E unique stuff in the R30 dungeon that will last you to the end of the game...

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Originally Posted by Xenor

I'm worried about both, but the focus of my rage is more important on the requirement issue for now. Both are bad ideas by the developers.

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Just my 2 cents on the whole party requirement issue

First im on a weird Playtime since i am in Brazil so when i play on a bit of both NA(east) and Jpn primetimes.

I dont think its a bad idea fomr the developers

This party requirement is another attempt from SE to "force" people to actually "mmo"(i use it as a verb for getting to know people , NEW people, and actually try to get toguether for stuff)... Same as with their early attempts of the market(wich failed but thats another thread.. or several actually)

Its based on an eastern mentality (again my parents are both asians from there so yeah i do know a bit about their mentality) that people WILL try to again mmo to get stuff done or in this case complete a party for the dungeons.

So they are trying even though as like everything else they tryed to force on the player base to connect it might fail badly.

Specially on the western gamers wich IMO are much more self centered or ls centered or even small group of friends centered and have a really hard time connecting outside their group of friends.


Fun fact : even with all the bad stuff one of their "attempts" the party search system actually works wonders on jpn prime time if you ever tryed it. It fills entire levepartys in matters of seconds of searching on these times. why doesent it work on NA baffles me. I always get my leves done in a couple hours on jpn prime time even with half of them not accepting me(JP onry) because theres plenty... again with the dwindling server population and all. No wonder jpn want their own servers lol

PS im sry about my spelling english is not my main language ^^ also its not my intention to attack anyone just my take on the different cultures i learned form this + 6 years of ffxi

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they can get the same 30 gear you can get at 30
if they want the better stuff they can go do the 50 dungeon

as we have stated SEVERAL times before but you just dont seem to understand that concept

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Yes, I know that in general rank 50 gear is better than rank 30 gear. I know you have stated this before, but that is not the point that I am trying to make. That you responded as such means that you don't understand what I am saying.

Rank 50 raid gear is probably better than rank 30 raid gear, yes. However, rank 30 raid gear is also probably better than rank 30 non-raid gear.

It is not good balance to have the best rank 30 gear be the easiest to obtain. Hardly anyone would bother to craft other rank 30 gear since there would be no point.

Furthermore, having rank 30 raid gear is not a sign of accomplishment since it would have been possible to steamroll through the dungeon with your rank 50 class, or have another rank 50 do it for you.

This is why doing the rank 30 dungeons as a rank 30 character should reward you appropriately with uber rank 30 gear, whereas doing the rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character should not reward you with uber rank 30 gear because you didn't earn it.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

If you're R50 and get equip from that R30 dungeon its only a temporary thing anyway...so what's the point? You won't get any R/E unique stuff in the R30 dungeon that will last you to the end of the game...

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If the current R30 NMs are any indication, then you will. There are several pieces of R30 NM gear that are useful for endgame.

Even if there wasn't any R30 raid gear useful for endgame, it doesn't matter if "it's only a temporary thing anyway", since it "temporarily" screws up the item value balance at the rank 30 range for everyone.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand.

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Your 8 people aren't my 8 people aren't his 8 people. It's easy to say no one should be able to beat it with less than 8 people, but realistically you'd be alienating most of the player population in the process. By default, most players are average in skill level. To raise the difficulty to the level you suggest would mean targeting only the most elite players and making it near impossible for them. Anything less would be mean they could more than likely accomplish the same with 7 people.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It is not good balance to have the best rank 30 gear be the easiest to obtain. Hardly anyone would bother to craft other rank 30 gear since there would be no point.

Furthermore, having rank 30 raid gear is not a sign of accomplishment since it would have been possible to steamroll through the dungeon with your rank 50 class, or have another rank 50 do it for you.

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im a crafter mostly, and let me tell you now, it wont hurt the market.
the new NM gear didnt, i still sell ALOT of stuff thats not considered better then the NM gear, and it sells GOOD

also, if it isnt an accomplishemnt, why are you so bent on stopping 50s from obtaining it easier then a 30?
you keep contradicting your point here


either it matters, or it doesnt

if it isnt important, if it isnt an accomplishment, why do you even care if a 50 gets it easier then a 30?

a 50 crafter can craft 30 gear easier then a 30 crafter can, does that make it unfair to the 30 crafter that he might fail when a 50 wont?
of course it doesnt!


the logic you keep putting forth isnt making sense with the point your trying to make, you keep counter arguing yourself

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

If a group of 6-7 playere are able to finish it(even with more difficulty) the whole purpose of balancing it around 8 players is stupid. Endgame in XIV is gonna be tuned for 8man PTs. You knew that since the Letter from the Producer from the beginning of the year...if you're now getting "angry" about that, go figure...I'm not against being able to ENTER the dungeon with less than 8 people, cause that requirement seems kinda strange...but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand. Its tuned for 8 and its gonna be difficult for 8, making it possible to beat with less than 8, makes the whole reason of it being tuned for 8 obsolete.

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I don't think people are upset that the dungeon is "tuned" for 8 people - it's that you can't enter otherwise. I think people are drastically overlooking the disparity in player skill in FFXIV (and really any MMO). The reality is, good players can accomplish tasks with much less players than mediocre/bad players. See: any FFXI endgame activity. So if the content is tuned for 8 average players, 8 good players are going to steamroll it. And I really mean that. I can't think of many FFXI events that top tier linkshells couldn't do with half the maximum available players (or even less). Now, I admittedly don't know how this will translate to FFXIV. Obviously since the maximum number is only 8, it may not mean 4 good players can clear the content early on (but who knows).

So, simply saying "if it's designed for 8 means it shouldn't be able to be cleared by 7" is much harder to implement than many people think. With the exception of using silly tricks like 8 pressure plates to unlock a door. But that won't change the difficulty of the actual encounters.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

...This is why doing the rank 30 dungeons as a rank 30 character should reward you appropriately with uber rank 30 gear, whereas doing the rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character should not reward you with uber rank 30 gear because you didn't earn it...

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So what's one of the big perks to grinding a job to 50? It makes a lot of other stuff easier. That's part of your reward. Part of what you earned in achieving max rank. It sounds strangely like you're suggesting that no one would ever need gear for another r30 job again, and that if they do, they should only be able to obtain it on that job before they hit r30.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

...If the current R30 NMs are any indication, then you will. There are several pieces of R30 NM gear that are useful for endgame...

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Did you farm any of that gear? Did you make sure you were on a rank appropriate job before engaging the NMs? I mean, surely a r50 shouldn't be able to solo and obtain gear for another job. They didn't earn it amirite?

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

If a group of 6-7 playere are able to finish it(even with more difficulty) the whole purpose of balancing it around 8 players is stupid. Endgame in XIV is gonna be tuned for 8man PTs. You knew that since the Letter from the Producer from the beginning of the year...if you're now getting "angry" about that, go figure...I'm not against being able to ENTER the dungeon with less than 8 people, cause that requirement seems kinda strange...but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand. Its tuned for 8 and its gonna be difficult for 8, making it possible to beat with less than 8, makes the whole reason of it being tuned for 8 obsolete.

Once people get better gear over time and stuff, the challenge will be less and less for 8man groups(and groups of 6-7 might be able to beat it)...but that's where new content tuned for those people should be rdy so...this is an endless cycle and if they start making it faceroll from the getgo...I'm done and say goodbye.

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It all depends on the level of difficulty they're aiming for. Difficult and challenging for the average player? For the hardcore player? For the top 1% of players? It's doubtful it will be the latter or even the middle option because they want content to appeal to everyone and this is the first real content they're adding. They will want the average player able to beat the content even though it's difficult and challenging for them. Problem there is the top 1% won't find it as difficult and challenging as a more casual player therefore you can get away with doing it with a man or two less. Additionally the hardcore and top 1% of players have more classes ranked up, more cross class skills, more HQ gear etc. and this too reduces the level of challenge.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

also, if it isnt an accomplishemnt, why are you so bent on stopping 50s from obtaining it easier then a 30?

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if it isnt important, if it isnt an accomplishment, why do you even care if a 50 gets it easier then a 30?

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I want to make it difficult for a rank 50 to get rank 30 raid gear so that rank 30 raid gear becomes an accomplishment.

Raid dungeons are supposed to be hard. If they are not hard, they have no meaning. If they are hard, and if they hard to everyone equally, regardless of what rank you are, then all the raid gear rewards become an accomplishment, not just the rank 50 raid gear.

If the raid content is easy, then the prestige of earning raid gear and the satisfaction and perceived value of that gear is diminished.

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Originally Posted by CrstyCaptin

This. I think it's a big mistake to make the requirement to enter a full party. First off one of my favorite things to do is low man stuff in FF. That's out of the window. Second, people are going to get left behind a lot. Like quoted above, a ls of 15, only 8 can go. One of my favorite things about XI was that you could do stuff in a huge alliance where rarely people get left behind (or you could swap them in if you did), or low man it. Not shaping up to be the same story here in XIV.

A minimum requirement of 4-6, with the difficulty being pretty extreme would be a good balance here. Sure you can enter with a lower number but good luck completing it. This min/max 8 crap is going to suck.

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This isn't a burn, so don't take it as one, but you are aware that these are just the first dungeons being released, and it should stand to think that they'll probably create higher rank 4-member group dungeons following feedback upon release of the first few.

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Originally Posted by Airlea

So what's one of the big perks to grinding a job to 50? It makes a lot of other stuff easier. That's part of your reward. Part of what you earned in achieving max rank.

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Yes, of course it makes stuff easier. And that's perfectly fine when applied to the over-world. It's not fine when applied to dungeons that are designed with difficulty in mind. It especially clashes with the stated design goals of "rewarding skillful play".

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Originally Posted by Airlea

Did you farm any of that gear? Did you make sure you were on a rank appropriate job before engaging the NMs? I mean, surely a r50 shouldn't be able to solo and obtain gear for another job. They didn't earn it amirite?

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Of course I farmed the gear. No one in their right mind is going to fight stuff at a lower rank if they don't have to. That is why in certain applications, like a specifically designed raid dungeon, level caps are good to maintain value and gameplay longevity.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I want to make it difficult for a rank 50 to get rank 30 raid gear so that rank 30 raid gear becomes an accomplishment.

Raid dungeons are supposed to be hard. If they are not hard, they have no meaning. If they are hard, and if they hard to everyone equally, regardless of what rank you are, then all the raid gear rewards become an accomplishment, not just the rank 30 raid gear.

If the raid content is easy, then the prestige of earning raid gear and the satisfaction and perceived value of that gear is diminished.

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then make it an accomplishemtn for you, no one is going to stop you from doing that

you are putting too much into caring about what other people do

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Originally Posted by Airlea

Your 8 people aren't my 8 people aren't his 8 people. It's easy to say no one should be able to beat it with less than 8 people, but realistically you'd be alienating most of the player population in the process. By default, most players are average in skill level. To raise the difficulty to the level you suggest would mean targeting only the most elite players and making it near impossible for them. Anything less would be mean they could more than likely accomplish the same with 7 people.

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I'm not talking about the best elite super awesome Chuck Norris players only. But just going by the fact that 1 out of 8 players equals 12.5% performance of the group(assuming everyone is on the same lvl skillwise) and being able to do it with 6-7 people, that equals beating the dungeon with a performance equal to 75-87.5% of the capability of a 8man group. Sorry if a group is able to complete a dungeon with only 75% of the capable performance of a full PT, then the dungeon tuning can be deemed as a fail. Cause a difference of 25% in neccesarry performance to get it done is way more than it should be to call it "difficult".

PS: This is all assuming that 8man group consists of reasonable players who know how to play(common sense and knowledge of game mechanics, not the uber pros who deal 2% more dmg than the average pro blah blah BS). Players not able to play shouldn't be able to clear this even with 10+ people...

And having played a lot of MMOs I know that these players still provide the majority of the playerbase. But tuning everything around stupidity doesn't make it better. I'm just asking of tunement where common sense and "knowledge" of your class is needed, rather than just going in and do whatever, it will work out anyway stuff.

PPS: I don't want the dungeon to be tuned for the average players, cause the average in an MMO is somewhere between stupid and ignorant. The endgame should be tuned around the 30% of players who actually know what they are doing and are able to think.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

then make it an accomplishemtn for you, no one is going to stop you from doing that

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I'm not going to run the R30 dungeon as a rank 30 if I don't have to. That would be silly. I'm going to run it as my rank 50 char, just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you are putting too much into caring about what other people do

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That's because I'm thinking from the perspective of game design, not from the perspective of a player. Sometimes what the players think they want is not always the best thing for them.

I want all the raid items to have worth and meaning. I want them to be a significant and meaningful reward that acts as a reminder of all the hard work a player has done.

I want the R30 dungeon content to last longer than 2 weeks, since any content that is too easy quickly becomes boring. The longer each individual piece of content stays fresh in the players' minds, the longer I can spend developing new content and not having to rush it out.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Of course I farmed the gear. No one in their right mind is going to fight stuff at a lower rank if they don't have to. That is why in certain applications, like a specifically designed raid dungeon, level caps are good to maintain value and gameplay longevity.

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So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

It's different because it's NMs that drop r30 gear? 99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational. No different than the gear from the 30 dungeons I'd imagine. That's why so few care if r50s could roll through it. Let them. They'd be farming temporary gear for the grind on another job. I really don't see what the big deal is. Let other people play how other people want to. It's not like this would somehow prevent you from choosing to do the content at a lower rank.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'm not going to run the R30 dungeon as a rank 30 if I don't have to. That would be silly. I'm going to run it as my rank 50 char, just like everyone else.


That's because I'm thinking from the perspective of game design, not from the perspective of a player. Sometimes what the players think they want is not always the best thing for them.

I want all the raid items to have worth and meaning. I want them to be a significant and meaningful reward that acts as a reminder of all the hard work a player has done.

I want the R30 dungeon content to last longer than 2 weeks, since any content that is too easy quickly becomes boring. The longer each individual piece of content stays fresh in the players' minds, the longer I can spend developing new content and not having to rush it out.

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so youll do it at 50 because you can?

and that would be your right, no one would stop you from doing that

but what happens if you friends dont want you on a 50? they want you on a 30 character, would you go down to 30 to do it? or would you tell them to F off?
i personaly would use the character appropriate to the group, and id be very happy to have the CHOICE to do so


the r30 content again, is just that, r30 content, its nto meant to last as long as r50 content, why do you think yoshi is mentioning the hard r50 boss which people are going to have to figure out, and nothing about the r30 dungeon?

cuz guess what, the r30 dungeon is FILLER not meant to keep you occupied over and over and over, thats the r50 dungeons job

the r30 dungeon is filler til you get to the r50

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

PS: This is all assuming that 8man group consists of reasonable players who know how to play(common sense and knowledge of game mechanics, not the uber pros who deal 2% more dmg than the average pro blah blah BS)

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Again, your reasonable and knowledgeable players aren't my reasonable and knowledgeable players. Your common sense isn't my common sense. This is why it's such a touchy thing. Everyone has a different opinion as far as what difficulty really is, and there's no true right or wrong answer.

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Originally Posted by Airlea

So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

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It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.

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Originally Posted by Airlea

99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational.

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Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so youll do it at 50 because you can?

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I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

but what happens if you friends dont want you on a 50? they want you on a 30 character, would you go down to 30 to do it? or would you tell them to F off?
i personaly would use the character appropriate to the group, and id be very happy to have the CHOICE to do so

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If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

cuz guess what, the r30 dungeon is FILLER not meant to keep you occupied over and over and over, thats the r50 dungeons job

the r30 dungeon is filler til you get to the r50

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And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.


Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.


I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.


If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.



And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

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so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

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As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

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you can always drop that loot if you feel you didnt deserve it

but again, you shouldnt force your opinion of that on others, they earned it, and it isnt up to you to determine if they did or did not

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you can always drop that loot if you feel you didnt deserve it

but again, you shouldnt force your opinion of that on others, they earned it, and it isnt up to you to determine if they did or did not

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This isn't about me and whether or not I think I or you or anyone else deserves anything.

This is about the game as a whole and trying to keep content fresh with a long shelf life, as well as having players feel a sense of accomplishment in their adventures.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

This isn't about me and whether or not I think I or you or anyone else deserves anything.

This is about the game as a whole and trying to keep content fresh with a long shelf life, as well as having players feel a sense of accomplishment in their adventures.

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its not on you to determine if others feel a sense of accomplishment

you keep talking as if what you think matters as far as what others feel about their game experience
how others percieve things arent how you do, face that fact

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Are there level restrictions for instanced raids?
There is a minimum level required to enter, but not a maximum level. Therefore, if it’s a level 25 raid, as long as you are 25 or above you will be able to enter.

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Can I ask for a clarification? This statement doesn't actually rule out the imposition of a level-cap condition. So, if a level 50 enters, is he temporarily scaled down to level 30?
You can enter, but can you use your full powers?

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Originally Posted by Lerris

Can I ask for a clarification? This statement doesn't actually rule out the imposition of a level-cap condition. So, if a level 50 enters, is he temporarily scaled down to level 30?
You can enter, but can you use your full powers?

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its been confirmed there are no upper limits to the dungeon
just minimum to get in(probly when the quest to get in appears)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

But... are these raids gonna be tough? I want a challenge! I CRAVE A CHALLENGE!!!1
Rest assured... When speaking about the current raid dungeons, we can sum it up in one word: difficult.

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epic, looking forward to it!

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Originally Posted by Airlea

Again, your reasonable and knowledgeable players aren't my reasonable and knowledgeable players. Your common sense isn't my common sense. This is why it's such a touchy thing. Everyone has a different opinion as far as what difficulty really is, and there's no true right or wrong answer.

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Well there are some standards that people refer to in having "common sense"...so there is no argueing about that. Either you have it, or you don't, but you can't have some sort of common sense and another person has part of your common sense. If I can earn 10 dollar in 5minutes, or 5 dollar 10minutes, your common sense will tell you whats the better choice and there is no variation in that.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Well there are some standards that people refer to in having "common sense"...so there is no argueing about that. Either you have it, or you don't, but you can't have some sort of common sense and another person has part of your common sense. If I can earn 10 dollar in 5minutes, or 5 dollar 10minutes, your common sense will tell you whats the better choice and there is no variation in that.

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$10 in 5 mins vs $5 in 10 mins

I would assume $10 in 5 mins is some kind of act which falls under prostitution while the $5 is something more law abiding, common sense is subjective...

People are behaving like every monster in the game should scale to the level of their job and thats just stupid. Of course as you advance, challenges that were alot harder at lower levels are now easy. And they will reward in line with the difficulty of said challenge. It only makes sense.

I just realised.

If the combat system isn't even working, then how did they develop a boss fight for the "Raids" (for lack of a better term)?

I have low expectations for this.

They fixed the battle system and then using the new battle system, made it challenging?

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Originally Posted by Katie

Idk guys... Months and months of patient waiting and we get two hours of content...

... I hope they are hiding something...

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No, months and months of patient playtesting. We are playing for free in exchange for getting to try the new design ideas and give feedback. Expect this to be exactly what they say it is. Dungeons, and new central camp areas.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

oh god dont talk about goldsmithing
im not looking forward to it

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Goldsmithing is pretty easy. The leve are mostly pure goldsmithing with no subcrafts, and so far the 40 & 45 ones are plentiful. I got GLD to 40, spent maybe 100k leveling, and I've made millions with it. That said the selection of leve at 20 & 30 are pretty bad, and you will get far more that are below your level in those ranges than above. You won't have to grind with electrum nuggets unless you really want to.

Edit: grammar