ARR Gil Cap Reduction

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Originally Posted by Aku

You completely fail to understand, period.
Don't you realize you'll be able to buy exactly the same with your 300k then than with your 3m now? Seriously?

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This is why I stay out of the forums. I love getting flamed for things I wasn't even concerned about nor did I mention anything about.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

This is the problem with redenomination - the psychological impact.
You are not losing ANYTHING. Think of it this way;

NOW: you have 10,000gil and a Gysahl green costs 2,500g from the escort NPC
That is 10k/2.5k = 4 .. That is 25% of your gil.

In 2.0 EVERYTHING is getting the reduction meaning that:

You will have 1000gil and a Gysahl green will cost no more then 250g from the NPC
1000g/250g = 4 ... which is 25% of your gil.

25% = 25%

We lose nothing.

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NPC costs scaling down is all well and good, and thank you SE for that. But um...you really think people are going to be as understanding in the market wards? If anything, most things in there will go UP in price. Some things will go down, because they're already higher than anyone will have starting off 2.0 (lol), but things are already so ridiculous in the wards...I honestly don't see that changing, and that's the real problem and the reason scaling everything down isn't really a logical option, in my honest opinion.

People, stop. You are not losing anything. They are not taking away anything. They are just changing the value of currency. Let me give you a very simple example here.

Lets say they decide to do away with gil and instead convert the system to gold. All prices in the game become gold and gil is totally removed from the game. They decide to use a conversion process where 1 gold = 100 gil. Guess what? Everyone has 1/100 less gold than they had gil BUT nobody actually LOST anything. And since you cannot trade against the old system then it doesn't really matter what the value they actually put on gold as long as the conversion was consistent which is exactly what they are doing.

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NPC costs scaling down is all well and good, and thank you SE for that. But um...you really think people are going to be as understanding in the market wards? If anything, most things in there will go UP in price. Some things will go down, because they're already higher than anyone will have starting off 2.0 (lol), but things are already so ridiculous in the wards...I honestly don't see that changing, and that's the real problem and the reason scaling everything down isn't really a logical option, in my honest opinion.

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Don't buy overpriced items then. Market prices are driven by what people are willing to pay for them. If sellers price their items too high under the new system and nobody can afford them then they won't ever sell anything. This is such a basic economic concept that it's scary.

Maybe if they changed "gil" to "hundred gil", people would feel better...

on first weeks of ARR,the price will be overpriced,sure. Consider this:

-Players still looking for efficient way to make gils in new battle/crafting/gathering system
-supply will be low
-demands will be unknown (due changes into battle system,stats and materia)

after community establish demands and steady supplies,price will be corrected

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Don't buy overpriced items then. Market prices are driven by what people are willing to pay for them. If sellers price their items too high under the new system and nobody can afford them then they won't ever sell anything. This is such a basic economic concept that it's scary.

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I don't buy things off the wards because 1)Everything is overpriced and 2)So many things are nonexistent because people are too lazy to gather. I've got 2/3 gathering jobs to 50 and working on my third so that I don't have to deal with the wards ever again. The reason things are so high is because everyone with more than 25mil just buys everything no matter what the cost. So really, the rich are just trading their money amongst themselves. And it's going to be that way always. So again, why cut everyone's gil by 90% when the rich are just going to get rich again and keep overpricing everything just because they can?

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Originally Posted by Ryshel

I don't buy things off the wards because 1)Everything is overpriced and 2)So many things are nonexistent because people are too lazy to gather. I've got 2/3 gathering jobs to 50 and working on my third so that I don't have to deal with the wards ever again. The reason things are so high is because everyone with more than 25mil just buys everything no matter what the cost. So really, the rich are just trading their money amongst themselves. And it's going to be that way always. So again, why cut everyone's gil by 90% when the rich are just going to get rich again and keep overpricing everything just because they can?

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It's very likely performance related. They'll be able to make the database more efficient by only having to store and retrieve smaller values. Reducing the significant digit by 1 for something accessed as much as virtual currency can result in huge overall processing gains.

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Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

Spoiler: Your nest egg will be (relatively speaking, not literally) the same size in 2.0! Congrats!

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I already understood that bit, but hypothetically speaking lets say a desirable game item costs 99 million in 2.0, and a person with 100 million goes down to 10 million. They have in fact lost 90 million gil, and the ability to buy that item.

Btw can I get another side order of snide to go with that troll? :D

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Originally Posted by Ladon

It's very likely performance related. They'll be able to make the database more efficient by only having to store and retrieve smaller values. Reducing the significant digit by 1 for something accessed as much as virtual currency can result in huge overall processing gains.

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I understand the overall change completely. Reducing the cap from 999mil to 99mil is going to make some money-grubbers very upset, but I understand why SE would want to reduce the overall cap by one digit and scale NPC prices down to account for that change, while also hopefully discouraging real money traders and whatnot. What I'm complaining about is that basically, we're all being punished for a few exploiters' exploits. I guess overall, things will work themselves out, but it's kinda upsetting when I've worked really hard for everything I've done and gotten while a select few have exploited the system for their spoils, and yet I'm going to have to watch my gil go from a hard-earned 3mil that I hoped to hold onto for awhile and not have to spend every day farming just to make ends meet down to 300k that goes very fast when you get poked with a stick if you don't put your gear repairs up for less than 5k apiece. :|

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Originally Posted by Ryshel

I understand the overall change completely. Reducing the cap from 999mil to 99mil is going to make some money-grubbers very upset, but I understand why SE would want to reduce the overall cap by one digit and scale NPC prices down to account for that change, while also hopefully discouraging real money traders and whatnot. What I'm complaining about is that basically, we're all being punished for a few exploiters' exploits. I guess overall, things will work themselves out, but it's kinda upsetting when I've worked really hard for everything I've done and gotten while a select few have exploited the system for their spoils, and yet I'm going to have to watch my gil go from a hard-earned 3mil that I hoped to hold onto for awhile and not have to spend every day farming just to make ends meet down to 300k that goes very fast when you get poked with a stick if you don't put your gear repairs up for less than 5k apiece. :|

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You're not understanding how this works. They are changing the value of money not removing money from the system. Do you have less money if you convert 4 quarters into 1 dollar? No, of course not.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I already understood that bit, but hypothetically speaking lets say a desirable game item costs 99 million in 2.0, and a person with 100 million goes down to 10 million. They have in fact lost 90 million gil, and the ability to buy that item.

Btw can I get another side order of snide to go with that troll? :D

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If they cannot afford it in 2.0, then they wouldn't have been able to afford it in 1.0. Unless you're of course insinuating that the cost remains the exact same between 1.0 and 2.0, which would be rather silly.

This is a nonissue. Gil is just worth 10x more, in the end its the same. undercutting will quickly reform the established market. People won't have any other choice. Complete non-issue.

Grass > 1/10 gil reset, and I dont even care about grass. Lets move on, please.

Its like migrating to another country called "Arealmrebornia" where to purchase anything you must exchange your Gil for their G|l.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I already understood that bit, but hypothetically speaking lets say a desirable game item costs 99 million in 2.0, and a person with 100 million goes down to 10 million. They have in fact lost 90 million gil, and the ability to buy that item.

Btw can I get another side order of snide to go with that troll? :D

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But an item that costs 99 million in 2.0, would have cost 990 million now. That's the point. A person with 100 million couldn't affort it now either. You are just converting the value of the money, not losing anything.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I already understood that bit, but hypothetically speaking lets say a desirable game item costs 99 million in 2.0, and a person with 100 million goes down to 10 million. They have in fact lost 90 million gil, and the ability to buy that item.

Btw can I get another side order of snide to go with that troll? :D

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You are absolutely correct. If someone is still trying to sell that item (AT MAX GIL 99m) you wouldn't be able to buy it. You should consider that, NOBODY can buy it (unless they want to spend ALL THE GIL THEY CAN HOLD) so naturally the price will go down dramatically. Apply that to the every item being sold

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I already understood that bit, but hypothetically speaking lets say a desirable game item costs 99 million in 2.0, and a person with 100 million goes down to 10 million. They have in fact lost 90 million gil, and the ability to buy that item.

Btw can I get another side order of snide to go with that troll? :D

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You, like many others in this thread, have failed simple economics... This is actually becoming sad now.

If you took your money and converted it into another currency (less physical bills) but stayed in the same country, do you have less money? *Obviously not factoring in conversion rate changes on currencies.*

Think before answering this question and if you still can't come up with an answer then you never will. Just gonna have to shut up and accept the changes.

This is what our current economy looks like:
http://www.juliandibbell.com/wordpre...l-1024x522.jpg

This thread is just making me sad now...

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Originally Posted by Aku

But an item that costs 99 million in 2.0, would have cost 990 million now. That's the point. A person with 100 million couldn't affort it now either. You are just converting the value of the money, not losing anything.

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Yes I can see that too, but my point is about an item that costs 99 million. If you reduce someone from 100 mil to 10 mil you place that particular item out of reach. You do in fact take something away from them. Even though with no change there could potentially be items that cost 999 million it doesn't change that fact. A friend of mine on hearing of this change quipped that "his 300 gil would go to 30 oh well." I will loose 10s of millions that I worked my ass of to earn, and was promised at the start of the rebuild would not be taken from me. I could have put the time I spent doing that into something else.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Yes I can see that too, but my point is about an item that costs 99 million. If you reduce someone from 100 mil to 10 mil you place that particular item out of reach. You do in fact take something away from them. Even though with no change there could potentially be items that cost 999 million it doesn't change that fact. A friend of mine on hearing of this change quipped that "his 300 gil would go to 30 oh well." I will loose 10s of millions that I worked my ass of to earn, and was promised at the start of the rebuild would not be taken from me. I could have put the time I spent doing that into something else.

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You should question what kind of item that cost that much

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Yes I can see that too, but my point is about an item that costs 99 million NOW. If you reduce someone from 100 mil to 10 mil you DO NOT place that particular item out of reach (because it will now be worth 9.9 million.. You do NOT in fact take something away from them. Even though with no change there could potentially be items that cost 999 million it doesn't change that fact. A friend of mine on hearing of this change quipped that "his 300 gil would go to 30 oh well." I will loose NOTHING that I worked my ass of to earn, and was promised at the start of the rebuild would not be taken from me, WHICH IT IS NOT. I could have put the time I spent doing that into something else.

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Fixed. :)
/10char

Anything that was meant to be at all accessable at the launch of ARR will be at the most worth 999 mil as of right now. If you dont factor in both the BEFORE and AFTER into your argument, well... you have no argument.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

What about the large pieces of land that require large amounts of gil to buy from an NPC? Or those expensive housing upgrades? For those of us who worked hard at making gil in 1.0, for the very reason that we would be well on our way to buying some of the great things 2.0 would bring, are being shafted and given the reasoning that arrows make up 90% of the current economy so removing arrows means 90% of our gil has to go. Oh but I haven't really lost anything because I can now buy cotton underwear from an NPC for 1/10th the price.

For those who haven't worked on saving up a nest egg this isn't a big deal, but for those of us who have we are in fact losing something.

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Nest egg, I like that because that is exactly what I was working on making gil for, and the gil earned achievements, bust my ass playing, crafting, farming, and now I'm being penalized for spending a lot of game play. It's bullshit, and if SE said they care about players, that is a crock because if they did, they would work on making them happy and wanting to keep people playing. I'll pass on a stupid ass jump feature to keep all my gil.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Fixed. :)
/10char

Anything that was meant to be at all accessable at the launch of ARR will be at the most worth 999 mil as of right now. If you dont factor in both the BEFORE and AFTER into your argument, well... you have no argument.

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Props, sir... you did that with far more civility than I can muster at this point.

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Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

Spoiler: Your nest egg will be (relatively speaking, not literally) the same size in 2.0! Congrats!

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Yo fool, if you have 100 mil in gil and it changes to 10 mil there is a 90 mil difference, I am losing 90 mil, or do you not see this? I am not a math scholar, but even I can see I will be losing gil that I played hard for. You can say what you want, and try to justify nothing is being lost, "it'll be the same in v2.0", its not there is loss, and major waste of countless hours in game earning it all.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

Nest egg, I like that because that is exactly what I was working on making gil for, and the gil earned achievements, bust my ass playing, crafting, farming, and now I'm being penalized for spending a lot of game play. It's bullshit, and if SE said they care about players, that is a crock because if they did, they would work on making them happy and wanting to keep people playing. I'll pass on a stupid ass jump feature to keep all my gil.

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You dont get it, you are exchanging your gil for gil +1. Which is valued at 10x the previous version.

And so is everyone else.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

Yo fool, if you have 100 mil in gil and it changes to 10 mil there is a 90 mil difference, I am losing 90 mil, or do you not see this? I am not a math scholar, but even I can see I will be losing gil that I played hard for. You can say what you want, and try to justify nothing is being lost, "it'll be the same in v2.0", its not there is loss, and major waste of countless hours in game earning it all.

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you understand math but not economy

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Originally Posted by Aion

you understand math but not economy

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You understand the forums but have yet to complete all combat and magic r50, so after you spend time on here equivalent from the CE release to now accumulating things then say something about loss or gain.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

You dont get it, you are exchanging your gil for gil +1. Which is valued at 10x the previous version.

And so is everyone else.

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no thanks I'd rather keep what I got now, and not have to worry about it.

I didnt know having all class to 50 will make me expert in economy,thanks for the tips

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

no thanks I'd rather keep what I got now, and not have to worry about it.

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At this point you're either a troll or you aren't able to comprehend. I'm sorry.

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Originally Posted by Aion

I didnt know having all class to 50 will make me expert in economy,thanks for the tips

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it doesn't but also means you have spent less time playing the game to be concerned about loss or gain. If you got nothing to lose, then this post is for you, but If you spent countless hours on here trying to build something, then there is a real issue.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

Yo fool, if you have 100 mil in gil and it changes to 10 mil there is a 90 mil difference, I am losing 90 mil, or do you not see this? I am not a math scholar, but even I can see I will be losing gil that I played hard for. You can say what you want, and try to justify nothing is being lost, "it'll be the same in v2.0", its not there is loss, and major waste of countless hours in game earning it all.

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Sit back and think about it a few more seconds. It will make sense and you'll realize you've been a fool.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

no thanks I'd rather keep what I got now, and not have to worry about it.

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You will keep what you have now. It is not going away.

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Originally Posted by Holland

You will keep what you have now. It is not going away.

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oh so what your saying is after 2.0 is released I will still have over 100 Mil?

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

no thanks I'd rather keep what I got now, and not have to worry about it.

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^ these are the signs of a defeated person.

You also seem like someone that might benefit from this book. It's targeted at people in your current predicament. :)

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1175884987l/570206.jpg

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

no thanks I'd rather keep what I got now, and not have to worry about it.

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Hun, you simply do not understand.

In a very simple explanation: (which I said in post 416)

NOW: you have 10,000gil and a Gysahl green costs 2,500g from the escort NPC
That is 10k/2.5k = 4 .. That is 25% of your gil.

In 2.0 EVERYTHING is getting the reduction meaning that:

You will have 1000gil and a Gysahl green will cost no more then 250g from the NPC
1000g/250g = 4 ... which is 25% of your gil.

25% = 25%

We lose nothing.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

You understand the forums but have yet to complete all combat and magic r50, so after you spend time on here equivalent from the CE release to now accumulating things then say something about loss or gain.

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You understand math, but not economy.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

Yo fool, if you have 100 mil in gil and it changes to 10 mil there is a 90 mil difference, I am losing 90 mil, or do you not see this? I am not a math scholar, but even I can see I will be losing gil that I played hard for. You can say what you want, and try to justify nothing is being lost, "it'll be the same in v2.0", its not there is loss, and major waste of countless hours in game earning it all.

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Completely agree 100%. All these people who are running around insulting others bec they dont like this change are just a bunch of trolls honestly. So what I would do is ignore them. It is certainly what i do and it works pretty well :).

When it comes down to it, you are entitled to your opinion just as much as they are. You will be the bigger person tho by not feeding the fire and adding to the chaos. If people are ignored it hurts worse than anything that can be typed (said) to them.

The economics mean nothing, you can say what you want but when I log into 2.0 I will not have the same total I have at this current time. Like I said in one of my post in this thread, I worked my ass off on this game and the people that run this game are taking items from my character. You can also say what you want about there is no loss, but there is, and repeating over an over saying it will be the same is not true, I will have less after Nov 1st.

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

The economics mean nothing, you can say what you want but when I log into 2.0 I will not have the same total I have at this current time. Like I said in one of my post in this thread, I worked my ass off on this game and the people that run this game are taking items from my character. You can also say what you want about there is no loss, but there is, and repeating over an over saying it will be the same is not true, I will have less after Nov 1st.

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You only understand literal values, you can't comprehend that this is a relative change

People complaining- Have you ever taken a math class?= Your money is exactly the same, but missing a zero.RELATIVELY It's value is kept exactly as it is...

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Originally Posted by KadeDoom

The economics mean nothing, you can say what you want but when I log into 2.0 I will not have the same total I have at this current time. Like I said in one of my post in this thread, I worked my ass off on this game and the people that run this game are taking items from my character. You can also say what you want about there is no loss, but there is, and repeating over an over saying it will be the same is not true, I will have less after Nov 1st.

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Its the equivalent of having 1/10th the number of dollar bills worth $1
...and all of those new bills worth $10.

everything is 10x tougher to earn, which makes every gil worth 10x the time and effort to earn.

It IS the economy that matters here. The math you are trying to apply to logic is... seriously lacking in understanding that your gil will be worth 10 times as much.

This changes nothing in the end.