Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Did new players really had a choice for the past 5 years ?
If this community didn't have enough jerks to make this roulette clearly a problem, they wouldn't have to put that kind of solution. Which, again, is still offering nice rewards for the time you spend on it.

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It's a worthless reward to me, 400 poetics? I've been capped on poetics since before Sb. The roulette was put in place because no one was running those dungeons. I'd rather they got rid of the roulette again, rather than make the scenes un-skipable. This is ten steps backwards.

You don't care about peoples experiences, don't pretend like you do now after trying to shut people down for trying to give their pov.

Not everyone has been a jerk in the community, and no one else should have to suffer for what SE themselves implemented poorly.

Getting rid of an optional roulette, because you dont like it. Just more sense of entitlement from younger gamers. You can ignore the roulette. You can even skip the dungeons with a story skip potion if an hour out of your mmo life is so detrimental to you. I would rather you story skip and never queue for that roulette again, as you are one of the reasons this change was put into place.

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Originally Posted by Coratanni

Getting rid of an optional roulette, because you dont like it. Just more sense of entitlement from younger gamers. You can ignore the roulette. You can even skip the dungeons with a story skip potion if an hour out of your mmo life is so detrimental to you. I would rather you story skip and never queue for that roulette again, as you are one of the reasons this change was put into place.

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That is exactly what I said I would do and yet you continue to attack me for my input. I'm not being anymore entitled than you are. My experience of the game is being changed. I wouldn't care if the changes ONLY effected the roulette. But I can't even skip them in a premade group if I ask a friend to solo me through. I don't have to do the Main scenario roulette, I don't do it anymore, but now anytime that I'm going to have to run these dungeons, I have to sit through something that in the past I could just skip.


I've NEVER pressured any new people to skip the scenes, and as I said on the page past which I'm sure you're ignoring to keep pushing this notion that we're such villi ans for not wanting to sit through CS, I've helped many players with runs so they can enjoy the experience. But sure, I'm the only entitled one because in my free time leveling my own characters I don't want something being forced on me.

Now I have to pay $20 for it, and miss other parts of the story that I don't mind. And I don't like that. So yes, I'm going to let SE know this is not the change they should have made.

This is a game we ALL put money into, and my POV is just as valid thank you.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

It's a worthless reward to me, 400 poetics? I've been capped on poetics since before Sb. The roulette was put in place because no one was running those dungeons. I'd rather they got rid of the roulette again, rather than make the scenes un-skipable. This is ten steps backwards.

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No, your idea is ten steps backwards. If you don't need the roulette, then don't do it. Don't assume that everyone shouldn't be able to run it because you don't like and don't need it.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

You don't care about peoples experiences, don't pretend like you do now after trying to shut people down for trying to give their pov.

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Don't speak about things you don't know, you're only making a fool of yourself. And I don't "shut people down". It's just that lots of people complain that the game is dead because this and this, and, months later they're still paying they subscription like good sheep. And I'm pretty sure you'll be there with your 8 characters, too.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Not everyone has been a jerk in the community, and no one else should have to suffer for what SE themselves implemented poorly.

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Again, if you don't need the roulette, why do you pretend suffering from this ? No one forces you to run it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, your idea is ten steps backwards. If you don't need the roulette, then don't do it. Don't assume that everyone shouldn't be able to run it because you don't like and don't need it.

Don't speak about things you don't know, you're only making a fool of yourself. And I don't "shut people down". It's just that lots of people complain that the game is dead because this and this, and, months later they're still paying they subscription like good sheep. And I'm pretty sure you'll be there with your 8 characters, too.

Again, if you don't need the roulette, why do you pretend suffering from this ? No one forces you to run it.

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Lets start at the beginning of the five years.

No one queued for Prae or CM because there was no reward for doing it that was worth it to anyone. At first people chain ran it for tomes, and newbies got left behind still. Then no one ran it anymore, because those tomes were worthless.

SEs solution. MS Roulette. Queue times fixed. It is being ran over and over. But the problem still remains, newbies are being left behind.

Now years later, as a result of this roulette. Both CM and Prae have MANDATORY CS. Regardless of if you run it in the roulette or not.

It's not just about roulette, its about the two MSQ dungeons, having the cutscenes unskippable NO MATTER WHAT.

And if the roulette queue dies off, this queue will be fed by the Mentor roulette. Which I do from time to time. I set aside a lot of time for mentor roulette, because I've gotten many EX primals in it. Nidhogg, Ifrit, Bismark, Ramuh, Garuda, all of the past extreme primals. I would rather get, and throw my face at for an hour.

No. I'm watching 30mins of CS in Prae.

You did try to shut me down. If saying "Considering you already spend so much time leveling 8 characters, you'll do those dungeons for each of them when the time comes, even if you don't like it, so it won't change anything wether you complain or not." Isn't a "shut up you'll do it and stop complaining." comment I don't know what is.

It's effecting MORE than that one roulette, It's affecting anyone deciding they want to go through the main story again even if they don't run the failed roulette.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Did new players really had a choice for the past 5 years ?

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Are you going to pretend this gave a new player choice? Technically they have even less of a choice, because before the change they could have gotten a party together to see the cutscenes if they wanted to. Now if a new player didn't want to see the 50 cutscenes, they don't get a word on it. THEIR opinion didn't seem to matter.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

OK, I can understand that line of thinking. But as I said, how likely is it that they're going to retract that stance and suddenly decide that now 5 year old content needs a rework of that magnitude? I'm not saying your suggestion wouldn't work, just that adjustments to what they've actually done are more likely tohappen and would be an easier "sale" for them to adopt. This team is far from infallible, but you get things done with compromise, not with demanding your way or nothing. We understand they are incredibly resistant to changing the actual run, they've settled for fiddling with the nitty gritty of flipping switches in the gates. What would be the best configuration of those switches to make the most people happy? Right now.. admitted after further information, not this one. There is no option to run it quickly anymore so that needs to be put back. But the roulette part I believe can be left alone unless they are irrevocably linked.





I'm sorry did it cover too many things that you actually said? I'm done with you then.
you're obviously ignoring things that disagree with you and posting poorly worded garbage. If you'd read ANYTHING in between those posts you'd have seen we've already found unsynched still has the cutscene limit which I concede is a problem.
I will be ignoring the majority of your further posts since you reply to valid criticism with plugged ears. Hope that's what you were going for.

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Let it sink in for a second no one is hardly agreeing with you, and I am not really counting Reynhar because he is just trolling with strawmans. If you are just going to ignore what people say then what is the worth even having a conversation? This change does more harm then good overall because all it achieves is increasing queue times for new players. It is also dumb as heck you can't skip undersized entry, something you chose not to even comment on the issue there.

I am going to be blunt, there was nothing wrong with the old way other then people not knowing how to talk to each other when having a new person in this particular duty. It is a community issue more then anything and this change by development does not help it. Healers and tanks have short queues,... for now... but dps is already insanely longer.

The reason I said I was not going to reply to that post is because it was just flaming and angry nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic.

This change helps NO ONE!! other a select few cases where people have issues talking to each other. This change happened just because of a few outspoken minority while taking a shortcut to address it. non-skippable CS to fix a social problem is not a fix at all.

In the end, esp to @Reynhar, who did not understand what I was saying. When I said it harms more then it helps, I also mean it harms new players trying to get this done since less people will be willing to queue for it. It also does not make sense to put the CS not skippable and go at your own pace unsyncing it. This change did not do any good at all. When you unsync, you should have the right on how slow or fast you want to read it, not have it auto scroll.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Are you going to pretend this gave a new player choice? Technically they have even less of a choice, because before the change they could have gotten a party together to see the cutscenes if they wanted to. Now if a new player didn't want to see the 50 cutscenes, they don't get a word on it. THEIR opinion didn't seem to matter.

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Exactly, some "new players" got a friend or two to try hold the group hostage, that is more toxic then any accuse being presented against speed runners since they could unsync it and went at their own pace. Are we done with the stawmans, Reynhart ?

Once again I have to bring up, there are also new players that skip it on their own, or just take the view inn advice too. This campaign of, "we need cs not skippable because it brings problems" is a very minor amount of instances, and a lot of times that happens because people can't communicate to each other, or willing to kick people causing problems in them. It is not hard to kick the tank that brings full trains to the boss and keeps locking people out of fights and continues to do so when told to slow down.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Now years later, as a result of this roulette. Both CM and Prae have MANDATORY CS. Regardless of if you run it in the roulette or not.
It's not just about roulette, its about the two MSQ dungeons, having the cutscenes unskippable NO MATTER WHAT.

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Yes, and if you don't run the roulette, it means you'll do these dungeons once per character. Considering you start playing FFXIV in 2013, you're likely to have dozens of days of playtime if not hundres, meaning that the time you will lose is only an insignificant fraction of your playtime. In fact, I'm pretty sure you already lost more time to lag in all your playtime than you will by not being able to skip the cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

You did try to shut me down. If saying "Considering you already spend so much time leveling 8 characters, you'll do those dungeons for each of them when the time comes, even if you don't like it, so it won't change anything wether you complain or not." Isn't a "shut up you'll do it and stop complaining." comment I don't know what is.

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That's the thing, you can complain, but if you still pay your subcription, it's basically the same wether you complain or not. And, by having the courage/patience/sillyness (pick one) of leveling eight characters, there's literally no chance you will put all of this to waste because you'll have to do those dungeons again.

But on the other end, all those new players will have a real experience when running those dungeons, that won't be ruined by happy trigger players.
Oh, and by the way, if your other 7 characters didn't do those yet, they're probably not capped on poetics, and, obviously, not level 70. Did I mention that this roulette is a good option to gain both a decent amount of XP and a decent amount of poetics that will allow you to buy the best level 50 and level 60 gear for all those characters ?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

When I said it harms more then it helps, I also mean it harms new players trying to get this done since less people will be willing to queue for it.

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An assumption which is, again, based on no fact at all.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Exactly, some "new players" got a friend or two to try hold the group hostage, that is more toxic then any accuse being presented against speed runners since they could unsync it and went at their own pace. Are we done with the stawmans, Reynhart ?

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It's funny because everyone tries to make a rule with a sample so little it's basically worthless, but pretend they know the general consensus on the community better than the people who actually have the best sample to analyze...do you really think they would have put that solution if only 1/1000th new players complained about that issue ?
Oh, and yes, to ensure that these dungeons are tackled according to their story relevance, let's run them in unsync to make them even less engaging...what a great solution !

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

meaning that the time you will lose is only an insignificant fraction of your playtime. In fact, I'm pretty sure you already lost more time to lag in all your playtime than you will by not being able to skip the cutscenes.

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I bet you are wondering why I said your consistently throwing out stawmans when you make statements like this? Do you even understand why people are here telling SE to take this change out of the game?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I bet you are wondering why I said your consistently throwing out stawmans when you make statements like this? Do you even understand why people are here telling SE to take this change out of the game?

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Considering that more than half of this topic has been written before even knowing how this roulette would roll, a good portion spread misinformation on the value of the reward versus the time, and another good portion think it clever to make those solo duties just because they don't want to run the roulette, preventing people who like that roulette to experience it (because reasons, I guess), most people here complain without having experienced any real issue yet.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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It does still matter. You do not get change to happen by running away. I love this game and I want it to do well. You are right, I won't stop playing. But I will be heard, and I will keep giving my feedback and you'll have to deal with it.

Regardless of how many hours I've put into this game, I still should be able to experience those quests at MY pace when I come to them.

I like leveling. It helps me learn my jobs from the bottom up. I do it to become a better player and because I enjoy playing this game. Sometimes I wanna just go dance for some sylphs again ok?

The MSQ gives you gear along the way. Poetics are still useless on those characters, by the time I get through the MSQ, I have enough gil to just buy gear, why waste time getting the poetics gear what will be replaced in no time, when I can throw gil at it. Heck THERE ARE OTHER WAYS to get poetics MUCH faster.

But nice try there. Cute.

I should not have to sit in Prae or CM for an hour + and I should not have to pay money to get past it either.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering that more than half of this topic has been written before even knowing how this roulette would roll, a good portion spread misinformation on the value of the reward versus the time, and another good portion think it clever to make those solo duties just because they don't want to run the roulette, preventing people who like that roulette to experience it (because reasons, I guess), most people here complain without having experienced any real issue yet.

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Cool, so is this you admitting you do not know why people are complaining then? because yet again (not shocked) this is you throwing out stawmans

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

It does still matter. You do not get change to happen by running away. I love this game and I want it to do well. You are right, I won't stop playing. But I will be heard, and I will keep giving my feedback and you'll have to deal with it.

Regardless of how many hours I've put into this game, I still should be able to experience those quests at MY pace when I come to them.

I like leveling. It helps me learn my jobs from the bottom up. I do it to become a better player and because I enjoy playing this game. Sometimes I wanna just got dance for some sylphs again ok?

The MSQ gives you gear along the way. Poetics are still useless on those characters, by the time I get through the MSQ, I have enough gil to just buy gear, why waste time getting the poetics gear what will be replaced in no time, when I can throw gil at it. Heck THERE ARE OTHER WAYS to get poetics MUCH faster.

But nice try there. Cute.

I should not have to sit in Prae or CM for an hour + and I should not have to pay money to get past it either.

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+1

Everyone deserves a choice what they want to do. This change is very bad and should be clear how bad it is when it auto scrolls (once again you can't slow it down and go an YOUR PACE!) when you unsync.

Not to mention mind you, those characters that are DPS. You want me to wait in a over 30min queue and then to do an hour and a half of dungeons?

:D How about this Reynhart, lets compromise, I'll make a character on your server and you can solo me through since you love to watch those cut scenes. I'll afk while you do everything. You'll take care of it right? Since you don't want any changes being made cause you like it as it is, and I won't be able to find people that will solo me through else where, you'll just jump at the chance for it right?? That way the roulette can stay as it is and I don't have to waste time on these badly paced dungeons anymore.

I appreciate everyone that's brought up valid criticism of this change. Any time I've brought it up, I've been told the same BS that Reyn is posting with no actual offer for a solution and felt like I was alone. I used to queue up every day as a healer. I always made sure to tell newbies that they could sit back and watch the CS and don't worry if the rest of the group goes ahead. Out of the 3 years I've played, I've only had two people throw fits over it.

I've run CM and Prae once since the change, and while CM is not that bad (from 20 mins to about 30 mins for me), Prae was horrible last night, clocking in at 1 hour. While I know this is going to grate on the nerves of our dear white knights in this thread, I'm not going to be running it any more. That's my opinion and choice, and while the white knights don't seem to think it's valid to voice one's opposing opinion, I'm standing by it. I personally enjoyed running these roulettes with random people, and this has ruined it for me.

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Originally Posted by Yunuen

I appreciate everyone that's brought up valid criticism of this change. Any time I've brought it up, I've been told the same BS that Reyn is posting with no actual offer for a solution and felt like I was alone. I used to queue up every day as a healer. I always made sure to tell newbies that they could sit back and watch the CS and don't worry if the rest of the group goes ahead. Out of the 3 years I've played, I've only had two people throw fits over it.
I've run CM and Prae once since the change, and while CM is not that bad (from 20 mins to about 30 mins for me), Prae was horrible last night, clocking in at 1 hour. While I know this is going to grate on the nerves of our dear white knights in this thread, I'm not going to be running it any more. That's my opinion and choice, and while the white knights don't seem to think it's valid to voice one's opposing opinion, I'm standing by it. I personally enjoyed running these roulettes with random people, and this has ruined it for me.

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You are well within your rights to stop and SHOULD if it bothers you that much. Good on you for helping new people for so very long.
I don't think I've seen one person say that SE is infallible. They've done some dumb things, the fact you still cannot skip CS if you make your own PF or Unsynched party is one of them. But the part where the roulette has unskippable CS ISN'T. A compromise was proposed that if a newbie is in the roulette then the cutscenes should be unskippable, but if all are vets who have done the instance before it should run as it always has, this is a good balance. Now the problem is to get this to the attention of someone who can do something about it without this being buried in bickering. Does that sound right to you or is this a situation where the old way is better than any sort of modification for you? Or perhaps you think devoting resources to re-doing the whole line itself is a better idea?

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Originally Posted by Yunuen

I personally enjoyed running these roulettes with random people, and this has ruined it for me.

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What was so enjoyable about it before the change? Personally for me, it was always the roulette I got the least amount of enjoyment from WHEN I actually decided to queue up for them. There was nothing enjoyable about Castrum/Prae for me, ever. It was a zergfest where no one gives a shit about anybody. People say they like to help newbies through these instances, and I have never seen that. Not even once. They get left behind. Always. Being carried though an instance isn't the same thing as helping, and that is exactly what was happening to the sprouts when they get to this point in the story.

I have now queued for both Castrum and Prae everyday since the patch. The environment is far from being filled with a bunch of people pissed off about the change. I'm not saying everyone is all happy about it, but there is actually social interaction going on in here now. Yes, players are actually talking to each other to pass the time while those who want to watch to cutscenes will simply just watch them. Hell, one player was having trouble figuring out how to get into the magitek mount, and one went back to help while the others actually waited. I can't even begin to express how shocked I was. This player was so happy when he got to join the magitek onslaught portion of the dungeon (seriously one of the more fun parts of it).

In short, I have seen far more good come out of these instances in one short week than I ever have in two years playing this game. These sprouts now won't know the horror most of us have experienced, which is far worse than oh soo torturous 90 minutes the veterans are having to deal with. And from my experience this week, veterans having a horrible time here would be an inaccurate assessment.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the way they handled Castrum/Prae was the best way to do it. However it is great to see the community come together to make the best out of really long instance time, which never would've happened without this change.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

What was so enjoyable about it before the change?

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I play a bit more fast-paced in general and MSQ did a good job getting me used to new classes I was learning in that kind of environment but less stressful for me than PotD. I also chatted with some nice people in there. The fights are so simple, that I could just chat through them.

I think everyone can have slightly different experiences, and if anyone was upset about being carried during MSQ runs I had, it wasn't vocalized except for a couple instances. I also never had a run where people were telling newbies to skip the CS either. The two runs I've had since the update haven't had any toxic complaining, more so just vocalization of annoyance, then laughing at the ridiculousness of the CS.

At most, I may queue up on the weekends if I have time but it's not really feasible for me on the weekdays with my work schedule. I wish they at least made the CS skippable if there's no sprouts or in unsynced.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You are well within your rights to stop and SHOULD if it bothers you that much. Good on you for helping new people for so very long.
I don't think I've seen one person say that SE is infallible. They've done some dumb things, the fact you still cannot skip CS if you make your own PF or Unsynched party is one of them. But the part where the roulette has unskippable CS ISN'T.

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Yes it is, stop with the censor crap. At some point people need some damn responsibility in learning how to comminucate. No chat in feast, no sending tells/ social options in DF, and this BS change is too much. You should give grown adults choice and let those that are able to communicate to do so. You completely missed yunnuen's point. THE MINORITY of NEW players gets abused, like very rarely is because 1, people do not communicate, 2. no one stands up for what is right and simply kick the offender. I had no problems in the runs I did when I used communication, you know talking to people, typing in that log and get people to kick problem makers. I have kicks passed on both ends, meaning I got kicks passed on "vets" being rude to new players, and new players mouthing off/ attempting to hold the run hostage. Different runs with a high rarity, but point is I did my part to comminucate. This was after several attempts to calm them down too.

We do not need this kind of censorship of a blanket change of being unable to skip CS.

If a few need to quit because they can't speak up, then..? how do they get past in the real world? at some point you have to make a stance and understand you can't please everyone and disrespect 90% of the player base because 1% can't communicate. (Yes I know that does not add to 100% there is a reason for it)

I am shocked we still have the novice network and shout chat channels with the over censorship they try to force on the player base, damn. Very insulting to treat adults like this, or even teens (rated 13 and over for the game)

Let me give you a news flash, it may be shocking, but I joined late in the game and was rushed there. I did not come here threatening to quit because people do their natural thing. I understand their PoV and so should others. Know what I did? ran it later with a friend and took all the time in the world to enjoy it. YOU cant even do that now since it is on auto speed @!*#@&@#((*@#(@#@#. This and no chat in feast has to be some of the worst changes to something I have seen in video games. (and not putting the "feature" to send tells from duty, in all the problems I had in wow, none came because of "tell harassment" while in a duty.)

I am shocked others are not offended over this kind of censorship, you really need to baby the player base? that is not insulting to you to be told "we are making a change because people lack the ability to communicate and conduct themselves properly in select specific circumstances" ?

Simple solution is giving extra prompts in teaching people they have a right to kick people causing problems and be stricter in kick abuse while reverting the MSQ roulette to what it was before 4.2. IF the dev team insists of needing to give the playerase babying, change the content to be solo then.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

People say they like to help newbies through these instances, and I have never seen that. Not even once. They get left behind. Always. Being carried though an instance isn't the same thing as helping, and that is exactly what was happening to the sprouts when they get to this point in the story.

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I waited for newbies, even if the rest of the party didn’t - once I learned the way through the area myself, which took a few runs! But I’ve had several rounds of staying behind waiting for someone to come out of the cutscene while everyone else dashed on ahead, because it’s a confusing place and being lost there alone is awful. If the fights were tougher I might have felt more conflicted between healer responsibilities and staying back, but the enemies go down easily enough that they could make do without me, and the waiting was more important.

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Originally Posted by Yunuen

I play a bit more fast-paced in general and MSQ did a good job getting me used to new classes I was learning in that kind of environment but less stressful for me than PotD. I also chatted with some nice people in there. The fights are so simple, that I could just chat through them.

I think everyone can have slightly different experiences, and if anyone was upset about being carried during MSQ runs I had, it wasn't vocalized except for a couple instances. I also never had a run where people were telling newbies to skip the CS either. The two runs I've had since the update haven't had any toxic complaining, more so just vocalization of annoyance, then laughing at the ridiculousness of the CS.

At most, I may queue up on the weekends if I have time but it's not really feasible for me on the weekdays with my work schedule. I wish they at least made the CS skippable if there's no sprouts or in unsynced.

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You don't need this MSQ to get used to new classes. In fact, because most are over-geared for it and it can just be blasted through does the exact opposite when it comes to learning a new class. Your time is better spent in an instance where mechanics matter if this is your intention. There aren't many environments less stressing than 4-man dungeons when it comes to group content. Also, if your intent is to learn your class, you shouldn't be chatting with peeps during combat. If you can do this, you're not being pushed.

Most players are not going to, or even be given the opportunity to vocalize their dissatisfaction in a Castrum/Prae run, but you don't need to go far to find it. The instances are notorious for having extremely relevant CS in terms of the WoL becoming the WoL that a newbie cannot see outside an inn save they get left entirely behind and unable to participate in battles. Even if you haven't heard the voices, trust me, they are there.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I waited for newbies, even if the rest of the party didn’t - once I learned the way through the area myself, which took a few runs! But I’ve had several rounds of staying behind waiting for someone to come out of the cutscene while everyone else dashed on ahead, because it’s a confusing place and being lost there alone is awful. If the fights were tougher I might have felt more conflicted between healer responsibilities and staying back, but the enemies go down easily enough that they could make do without me, and the waiting was more important.

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I commend you, believe me I do. I've done the same thing for newbies, and it only resulted in both of us being locked out of a boss fight. I am ok with that though. Like you, I know what it's like to be there alone and not having any idea what to do or where to go. You feel useless, and like a burden to everyone. The person that comes back for you is like an angel. Vets complain about the 35-50 minute runtime per instance, and seem to forget that the 10-15 minute runs for a newbie seemed like an eternity when you feel like all you are doing is holding everyone back.

If everyone had a similar mentality, this wouldn't be an issue at all.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

another good portion think it clever to make those solo duties just because they don't want to run the roulette,

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You're either really not getting it or you don't want to get it at this point. This change affects not just the roulette but a hypothetical premade of 8 people, or an unsynced party, who don't care for the cutscenes and are running it for the first time on those charas if not at all. People who don't want that roulette anymore won't run it, but they'd still have to go through that broken content if they take an alt through that content. And as someone with several alts who have yet to clear that part of the MSQ, I'd much rather it became a solo duty instead of forcing me to sit through unscrollable, unskippable cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Regardless of how many hours I've put into this game, I still should be able to experience those quests at MY pace when I come to them.

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That's a group content, so not everybody can have their pace at the same time. And giving dev time to make up for any type of 8-man configuration, be it full premade, partial premade, or full random, is not a clever way to spend ressource when they already have a hard time bringing really new content.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

The MSQ gives you gear along the way. Poetics are still useless on those characters, by the time I get through the MSQ, I have enough gil to just buy gear, why waste time getting the poetics gear what will be replaced in no time, when I can throw gil at it.

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Weaker gear than anything you can buy through poetics and than does not need to be replaced until level 68.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Heck THERE ARE OTHER WAYS to get poetics MUCH faster.

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Give me an example and let's talk about it, would you ?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Cool, so is this you admitting you do not know why people are complaining then? because yet again (not shocked) this is you throwing out stawmans

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Please, enlighten me, let's hear your interpretation...

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Not to mention mind you, those characters that are DPS. You want me to wait in a over 30min queue and then to do an hour and a half of dungeons

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Sure, it's much better for them to run multiple duties suffering multiple times from a long queue time...people tend to forget about that.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You're either really not getting it or you don't want to get it at this point. This change affects not just the roulette but a hypothetical premade of 8 people, or an unsynced party, who don't care for the cutscenes and are running it for the first time on those charas if not at all.

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ONCE, you'll have to face it ONCE in the whole lifetime of your character...Seriously, you'll spend more time complaining about it that actually "suffering" from it.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

People who don't want that roulette anymore won't run it, but they'd still have to go through that broken content if they take an alt through that content. And as someone with several alts who have yet to clear that part of the MSQ, I'd much rather it became a solo duty instead of forcing me to sit through unscrollable, unskippable cutscenes.

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So, in order to prevent you from this one trip, you're okay to remove the possibility for everyone to run the roulette, even though they might want to run it multiple times because they find it worthy, right ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

ONCE, you'll have to face it ONCE in the whole lifetime of your character...Seriously, you'll spend more time complaining about it that actually "suffering" from it.

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And once on THAT alt, and once on THAT alt, and once on THAT alt... it's almost like it's piling up.
For someone who was all "what choice did sprouts have until now?!" you certainly don't seem to care about the lack of options when it's forcing the position you're advocating. Interesting. And sprouts would've had to go through that bad experience the once too, so that argument's value is moot.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Give me an example and let's talk about it, would you ?

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A rank hunts, specifically ARR ones. Healer/tank queues on ARR trials to farm first timer bonus. And unlike with the MSQ roulette, you're actually engaging the game.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

:D How about this Reynhart, lets compromise, I'll make a character on your server and you can solo me through since you love to watch those cut scenes.

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Frankly, I'd have no issue helping a new character go through it. Buuut, there's no way you won't do your part during the fights, sorry.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

A rank hunts, specifically ARR ones. Healer/tank queues on ARR trials to farm first timer bonus.

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So, what about it, let's make a "race" then. I'll run the MSQ roulette as a healer, and post here :
- Time of queuing
- Time of exiting
- Experience before the run
- Experience after the run
And you try your way to see how much time it takes for you to gain the same number of poetics and XP, outside of the roulettes. Wanna try ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Wanna try ?

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No. I've nothing to prove to someone who replies with strawman arguments only to selected bits and pieces of posts and ignores the plethora of legitimate concerns brought up in the rest of said posts. Or completely ignores the core concept of "playing the game" vs. "being held hostage by it to watch cutscenes at the pace it dictates". I'd rather spend my time farming yellow scrips for that chocobo barding. Have fun with that, I'm done here.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

No. I've nothing to prove to someone

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Sure, who need to provide data after claiming something, right ?

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Or completely ignores the core concept of "playing the game" vs. "being held hostage by it to watch cutscenes at the pace it dictates".

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They give more rewards for that, how horrible it is !

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You're either really not getting it or you don't want to get it at this point. This change affects not just the roulette but a hypothetical premade of 8 people, or an unsynced party, who don't care for the cutscenes and are running it for the first time on those charas if not at all. People who don't want that roulette anymore won't run it, but they'd still have to go through that broken content if they take an alt through that content. And as someone with several alts who have yet to clear that part of the MSQ, I'd much rather it became a solo duty instead of forcing me to sit through unscrollable, unskippable cutscenes.

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Hell that's half the reason I story skip most of my alts to HW. Between the hell that was these dungeons even before the forced cutscenes and the even bigger hell that awaits from 2.1-2.55 I just didn't have much motivation to slog through that part of the story again. Now with the cutscenes being mandatory I have none at all, even for just running it as a roulette.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The newbies who want the scenes can't even watch it at their own pace since they're auto scrolling.

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Exactly. When I was running those two dungeons for FC members and the few times with randoms, I never forced anyone to skip cutscenes. I even waited for them to show them the way, explain some stuff that they need to click on and more. I just find it bad that their solution is something that punishes way more people then it helps. If you try to do this daily or weekly you will be forced to watch that cutscene again and again and newer people that dont want to watch it will have to do so too. I just wished that they had made it into a solo instance. I mean the bosses are jokes anyway with veteran players so that poor Lahabrea cant even finish his speach before he is death. That would not leave a grand feeling inside of me. A solo instance would have given people the pace that they wanted. They can watch them or not, and the bosses might be no jokes too. And to give veteran players the chance to see that too they could have introduced a NPC that will make such solo battles replayable.

I know it’s totally individual, and I’m also tuning out of the cutscenes when repeatedly running the roulette now (and I’m in the Castrum now as I type this during cutscenes), but when I get my alt to that point in the story I’ll certainly be watching them again. As a daily run, watching everything is the equivalent of reading just one chapter in a long book over and over, and I wouldn’t want to do that - but when I’ve read the entire book up to that point, it makes no sense to skip that chapter. It’ll be the rare chance to actually experience it in its proper context, with the surrounding cutscenes and unrepeatable in-game scenes that come before and after it. I’ll enjoy seeing those characters take part in some of the most epic scenes in the game.

For anyone feeling like it’s an issue that they will have to sit through cutscenes as part of playing the MSQ - do you enjoy the story, or are you mostly playing it for the gameplay? Do you skip all the other cutscenes on your alts, or is it just an issue that these ones can’t be skipped because you’ve been through this particular dungeon so many times? I can’t comprehend that experiencing the climax of a story could feel like a greater chore than the hours of quests that got you to that point. I accept that you feel that way, but I couldn’t bear to miss it.

Well I am probably not going to do those with my alts since they are mostly there to sell my items and as extra storage so I cant truly answer your question for that Iscah. But I do believe that a part of the playerbase is not playing this game for the story (which is honestly fine for an MMO but nothing that great for a game story imo) and before that change they could at least skip this. Now everyone has to watch them even if they dont care for that. For some veteran players I also think its just too much to watch them over and over again, especially if those scenes are longer then the fighting parts of the dungeon.

In the end I am just curious how long those that are fine with that will run the dungeons. How long it will take them to get bored and annoyed of it too. Yes we can all not just queue in that (thankfully) but I just dont think that this would count as a good long term solution.

I did CM today, no wait (was heals), it took about 25 mins, the bonus was 1.1 mil exp. Seems reasonable enough to me.

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

I did CM today, no wait (was heals), it took about 25 mins, the bonus was 1.1 mil exp. Seems reasonable enough to me.

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What was your Healer level? How many players were new or did everyone clear and it was a zerg fest like usual?

At this point, I think the only compromise we're gonna get is if EVERYONE in the group votes to skip a scene, then it can be skipped.
What worries me the most about this, is... what if they decide to start imposing non skippable cutscenes on OTHER duties or story?

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Originally Posted by NaoTenbe

What worries me the most about this, is... what if they decide to start imposing non skippable cutscenes on OTHER duties or story?

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As long as they increase the rewards accordingly so that your reward/time ratio is the same, it won't really change much.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

What was your Healer level? How many players were new or did everyone clear and it was a zerg fest like usual?

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was 62, ended at 63. I got 400 poe so at least one was new. with the exception of the cutscenes it was a pretty normal run, no trouble.

Back when i tried this roulette for my Lv 51 job and 60 jobs, I was getting almost no exp. I think someone said it used to be 1.8% of your exp bar. All I remember, was looking where my exp bar was (it was lined up with an icon on my screen) and when done, my exp bar was still lined up with that icon, it didnt look like it moved at all.
This time, at Lv60, I got 20% of a levels worth of exp.
Thats a TON more exp than before, and actually worth doing.

I honestly plan to run these a lot now, and since its so easy, I have no issues with the change.
(This is also the new PvP way of leveling for me lol)

If you're fine watching the same old (now unskippable) cutscenes everyday over and over again be my guest. But as for me, there are other means to get exp and farm poetics without a ton of bs like having for example: Having 7 ppl who aren't new to those 2 MSQ roulette dungeons, but having 1 person who is new thus forcing 7 other people to sit through boring cutscenes for 1 person which can take over a half hour or longer depending on the party you get.

Continued... (damn forum limit *sigh*)

So...yeah...No.

The bonus exp and poetics aren't worth the time. I can get done 2 other roulettes in the time it takes to finish msq roulette now...and that is sad.

MSQ roulette used to take no longer than 15 mins to get finished. It was quick and easy, even with newbies, and half of the time, the newbies would skip the cutscenes anyway.

SE is appealing to a small minority of players but making it more tedious for more experienced players and like i said, half the time, even the newbies want to skip the cutscenes.

I just lol at the White Knights defending this bad decision for this roulette. But like I said, if you don't mind sitting through the same cutscenes over and over again everyday for meh rewards be my guest.

/2 cents

SE should'nt have made those dungeons have those cutscenes in the first damn place. They and Yoshi-fail are the ones who screwed over new players because of their bad decision making. I used to blame the speedrunners for ruining my experience because like some i did miss some of those cutscenes/fights at the end of arr when i was new. But now I know it wasn't their fault and i don't blame them for wanting to get it done asap.


A roulette is basically meant to be speedran and to be done fast.

Hence why SE wised up with HW and did major cutscenes after dungeons. But now they royally screwed newbies again with this new change to the roulette cause the majority of vets and levelers won't want to waste an hour of their life watching old cutscenes over and over again...cutscenes they now CANNOT skip. Just bad decision making which Yoshi and Se are known for now and like se, Yoshi, doesn't learn from his mistakes.