Yes, Seida, I claim That. Women are most times more flexible. In order to optimize That trait of theirs, their armor is less rigid, and thus, there's no chainmail.
If a male DRG is more confident in his flexibility than in his endurance, he may choose to not wear any chainmail either.
I'm not the machist one there, but certainly, those Who see machism everywhere are. It's a choice. There's no women exploitation, Just a matter of personal choice : Whether one prefer to use more defense or more flexibility when fighting.
Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.
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06-14-2015, 07:40 PMArcaviusGreyashe
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06-14-2015, 07:45 PMShougun
Chainmail is quite flexible (can make it into a ball if you wanted), it is however one of the heaviest parts of your armor but still worn because of how useful it was (with or without plate)... For weight female dragoon would have taken off the chainmail but kept a padded under garment and the plate for the belly (risk your own armor piercing you without the mail, and attacks at the joints though). You would loose more range of motion in plate but people often mistake some as nearly all (knights of yore were not restricted to zombie movements lol). Also if you're in plate you'll want something underneath because metal to the skin with many parts sucks lol. But I'd add that a battle prepared female would have no problem with that weight.
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06-14-2015, 07:56 PMArcaviusGreyashe
There's no "battle prepared" male or female, it all depends of your fighting style. If your style is That of a fast and flexible gymnast, you'll want no additional weight.
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06-14-2015, 07:59 PMShougun
Battle prepared, as in physically fit and trained. So I'd hope there are battle prepared males and females or.. good luck Hydaelyn, so long and thanks for all the fish :p.
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06-14-2015, 07:59 PMSeraphynaIf you seriously want to go this route, glamour the armour with the "belly hole" that is making you so upset. Settles the problem no? The game has a ridiculous amount of armour that has full covering and people are nitpicking on one item. Nothing better to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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06-14-2015, 08:06 PMHypie
I dont understand why Ppl are crying around over ilvl 50 Chestpiece you switch out like in hours...if you know what you do...and in days if you are new.
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06-14-2015, 08:07 PMArcaviusGreyashe
Don't know, Shougun, do the Scions seem remotely prepared to you ? =(
Seriously, yes, you can be trained and so, but if you're trained to move normally with a chainmail + plate armor, then you'll be trained to move way faster with only the armor on. Then, it's only a matter of choice when it comes to equipping the chainmail or not, depending on your fighting style. -
06-14-2015, 08:17 PMSamcaesarGrasping at straws aside. There is a difference between the men's "Bellyhole" and the woman's "Bellyhole"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Cool, what's sexual dimorphism in this context then? Most physical differences between men and women are determined by either a Y or a X chromosome in the 46th chromosomal spot, however there's plenty of other factors that influence it, such as.. Genetics. Seriously, have you never seen a naturally feminine man or a naturally masculine woman? Look at that link in the second paragraph for examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDraco4011
It's fantasy, which means armor ought to make as much sense for one party as it does for another. SE has a relatively good track record of this in FFXIV, I'd hope they wouldn't change armor to the WoW esque model of Tankini tops for ladies and bulky armor for men. I draw and write in my own time, that however isn't something that needs to be brought up here, but excuse me for existing and enjoying a game. Way to be rude as hell "petty communistic whims"? Seriously communistic? How does that even apply here? It's only petty because you consider it petty. I consider complaints about RMT petty, but you don't see me stomping into threads telling people to stop "whining to get someone else to conform to your petty communistic whims"
Excuse me for responding on a forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe
I'm not denying the truth, I'm saying that women aren't as monolithic as you guys are saying. Like.. Seriously, look at the diversity of body shapes in that picture of women athletes I linked. Likewise, stop ignoring the fact that Roegadyn women, excluding their breasts, look about as masculine body shaped wise as most of the male models in the game. The bellyhole exists some reason, and I can tell you it's not because of the biology of a woman.
Cool, but I lack the option to. And I seriously doubt "hardware reasons" are the reason for that. Like.. We get new glamour all the time, why not make the male DRG AF standard and have a "Glamour bellyhole edition" option open for those who want it for cheap.
My only issue is that the armor is suppose to be for tanking or fighting dragons, not looking sexy. Like, the only reason I suppose that gear ought to look equal for both men and women, as opposed to the idea that men have full bulky armor while women get much more skimpier sets, is because I'd prefer if things are going to look silly, they look silly equally. It is preference ultimately, but I just feel that glamour should be more reserved for that because it's not meant to really look practical while armor is(Within the sense of practicality in the FFXIV universe).Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashidon
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06-14-2015, 08:31 PMReinhaI didn't ignore it, I asked you why it ought to be equal [in metal thickness and coverage]. Here's what I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
And this is what you reply:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
Considering my example of a feminine armor set was neither a tankini top nor a bikini top (why you keep bringing them up is beyond me), I'm going to assume that you find fully covering, fitted to form metal armor degrading on women if it doesn't have the same thickness of metal as the male version. That's quite extreme, but you have a right to your opinion. I do not find it degrading because I want everyone to see my character's gender and beautiful shape and I don't find feminine gear stupid looking like you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Your general view on the exposure of skin in battle is really interesting though and can be read between the lines. It's called false-consensus bias and in short it means people assume others share their way of thinking. Going by what you wrote, you don't find women in feminine (=tightly fitted) armor or anyone in revealing armor something to be taken seriously, nor do you see them as capable fighters. I'm not going to try to change your point of view because these kinds of beliefs tend to be deeply rooted, but please at least acknowledge that this is your personal opinion and not a fact.
No one is saying women must absolutely be feminine. I'm gonna reply with your own argument and say, there's glamour options for bulky armor if you're into that. :^) You mention in another post: "If you want to look pretty, work with the glamour system to wear flowing dresses and the new belly dancer outfit into battle, please stop trying to tread of those who want semi-sensible armor for girls as an option though". Everyone is quite aware of the dresses thank you, but we are discussing fitted armor here. That can be pretty too so stop trying to tell everyone what kind of metal armor they should wear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Also I'm gonna repeat that I'm a woman irl so this isn't (only) about what men want. WOMEN are asking for feminine, fitted gear. Or did you mean that the male developers of this game shouldn't make feminine job specific armor designs because of their real life gender? That would be a pretty sexist thing to say. -
06-14-2015, 08:52 PMArcaviusGreyasheEvery character in the game is only a big amount of datas, and that amount of datas takes massive space on SE's disks. They're already, for example, working on a solution to get the /visor saved with the gear you're wearing (meaning you won't have to do /visor each time you equip that piece of gear), and that takes time. Why ? Because it's not simply a switch to activate : you gotta make sure it doesn't take too much space, you gotta optimize it, you got many things to do. Now, doing that with every piece of DRG AF, a piece that most people have ? That would be a huge, huge waste of saving space...Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
X or Y chromosomal are in fact very important, that's not just half a chromosomal missing... Compare a rooster and a chicken, and tell me that just one chromosomal is nothing. And that's just a trivial example, there are many more that would make way better examples. They affect the phenotype in a very important way, and the others are as well very important, but they concern more the body functions, like breathing, and so. I'm not saying the whole phenotype is defined by X or Y chromosomal, but they are really important. Know why ? Because it implies what your gonads are going to become ? And what does that have to do with anything ? It defines what will happen to your body during the puberty, so what your final phenotype is going to be. That's why male and female children are very similar, while the typical woman is less muscular (for example, and sorry, but that's how the world works) than the typical man.
For roegadyns and lala, you don't know what puberty does on them. Female Roegadyns, as well as female Lalas, have to give birth, so their pelvian girdle (not sure about the name, but =( ) has to be large enough to let a baby pass by. They must have a feminine bone structure, sorry to tell you that. Maybe male lalas have it as well, but we can't know that, so... No, you can't use that argument...
And for the reason that hole is there... Mate, do you seriously think this game is sexist ? We have Bloefhiswyn, the sultana, Minfillia, Alisaie, Kan-E Senna, Lucia (I think that's her name...)... There are many women powerful enough to make all men pee their pants just being in the same room with them... The game is not sexist at all. The are absolutely no "sexy" outfit, except for the bunny GS thing, and don't even bring the Dzemael drops, they're equally sexy for both men and women (Although they look way better on male, I'm sure everyone agrees =( ).
So, they'd simply, after making a whole game non-sexist, take a random AF, and make it sexy because... Well, you know, you gotta anger the feminists, eh, that's how marketing works ! Nope. That was a design decision, and, hell, a belly hole is not sexy at all. That's just what it is. A Belly Hole. Something that show your belly. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not really excited by a damned belly button. Especially when the woman that shows it looks ready to beat the sh*t out of me...
The hole is not there because "Sexy is cool", it's here because of reasons. And that reason may be the fact that the fighting style is a little bit different. -
06-14-2015, 09:12 PMSamcaesarLike I've said, if it's going to be bulky for the men, it ought to be bulky for the women as well. If it more revealing on the women, it ought to look more revealing on the men as well. Armor can make less sense, but it should make less sense equally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
As I've stated elsewhere, "Tightly fitted" in most cases basically amounts to very shiny skin with most people's wants. I keep bringing them up because more oft than not, that's the hop-skip away to what people consider "Female armor". I've clearly made a distinction between "Form fitting" and "Tight", and showing off your character's hips, thighs, and breasts are not "Form fitting". It is pretty damn degrading whenever I want to wear the DRG AF and I've got to deal with the ridiculous bellyhole (Or lack of scalemail if you want to be that pedantic about wording) and visible black bra that doesn't doesn't exist on the men's version, because I can tell you, that bellyhole (Or Boob window, extra cleavage, or lack of armor to accentuate the woman's body) isn't to make it "Form fitting".
Cool, excuse me for wanting women in armor to look as serious as men do in armor. You keep using "tightly fitted" (most people use this to mean panted on metallic "armor") and form fitting interchangeably. This is "Tightly fitted" http://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-cont...boob-armor.jpg This is form fitting http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...vl5l5nmpng.png See the difference? If you consider "Tightly fitted" serious, would you take http://images1.fanpop.com/images/pho...-1000-1500.jpg as serious armor? Considering I'd look at a dude changing into battle wearing a loincloth and ask what the hell is he doing, yes those who wear little clothes and are charging into battle aren't something to be taken seriously. Seriously, ask yourself, if a dude came up to you saying that he's a proud warrior and all he's wearing is a metal codpiece, would you take him serious? If so, why?
Seeing all the people advocating for "Tight fitting feminine armor must be the case for women", I'd say otherwise. Whenever armor in game has an intent that it's trying to invoke, such as fighting dragons with the DRG AF it really shouldn't sway into the more silly design that the girl's version of it has, least the question of "Why don't the men also have the bellyhole as well?" be brought up. It's armor. It's meant to be protective. Considering the direction FFXIV takes with armor in that the fantasy setting, IE the armor to looks more bulky and still works, why should that change just for the girls? Make silly more revealing or "tightly fitted" armor for glamours, because they're not suppose to invoke a feeling of actually being protective armor within FFXIV.
Cool, I'm a girl too! Women are also asking for properly fitted gear that doesn't have sudden and unneeded changes to the women's version to make it look more "Feminine". Generally, developers who are straight men (As that is how things tend to end up in most industries) will develop armor that suits their tastes, ie men are more suited to power fantasies, women are more suited to what they want women to look like. SE has done a wonderful job so far of not doing that with the armor, with a few exceptions. I'm just hoping they continue their streak with only a few blemishes (Look at the folks asking for men versions of some the women exclusive gear or the weird lack of scalemail on the DRG AF for girls). I'm just hoping they fix those few blemishes as well, perhaps by adding a "Bellyhole edition" of the DRG AF (Avaliable for men and women!) and making the covered version default.
Then why don't they just change the armor to have a closed bellyhole and add in a glamour version with the bellyhole (Avaliable for both men and women)? No need for a toggle in the UI, just model work to make it available for men and women and an addition of the glamour bellyhole version somewhere in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe
The X or Y Chromosome primarily function in determining what the primary set of hormones are released throughout one's life, from prenatal and onward. This of course affects a lot of things, however look at how someone deprived of any testosterone (Such as a eunuch) develops as opposed to a man with a steady stream of sex hormones will, the differences are apparent. There are a lot species in which case sex chromosomes are incredibly weird, hell Platypuses have some incredibly bizarre set ups and New Mexico Whiptail lizards lack a Y chromosome all together (Huzzah for lesbian lizards!). Alternatively, look at species with reversed sexual dimorphic patterns, most notably the Anglerfish if you want an extreme and a less extreme is Spotted Hyenas. Even then, Chromosomes aren't the sole deciding factor in something such as gonads, as folks with XY or XX can be born with plenty of conditions that would put them underd the medical label of "Intersex" (Roughly 1 in 1000 people fall under this definition according to http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency ). Women are less muscular due to the body producing less testosterone than a man would, however this isn't uniform (Or even average I'd wager) across all women neither is it uniform across all men. For in game examples, look at the any of the beast tribes or the Lalafell, in which sex chromosomes don't seem nearly as massive of an effect of their general structure.
Without getting too in depth into the bone structure of the Lalafell, it doesn't seem like male lalafell have that different of body structure than a female one does. Plus again, the size of their hips is hardly a deciding factor in what their armor looks like. The point is, look at the general body structure of a Roegadyn women. Look at the body structure of a Midlander, Elezen, or Au Ra man. Note how similar they actually look, poses aside? Looking at just their body structure, they're incredibly similar, so why the differences in armor? Considering we don't know exactly how Roegadyn or Lalafell body structure works your assumptions work akin to mine do. For all we know, Roegadyn newborns are incredibly small and develop outside the body so a difference hip structure isn't needed.
No, it does a wonderful job to stay away from that.. Most of the time. Nothing is perfect and we can strive to be better, armor and character wise as well. Minfillia really isn't helping your case by the way, she's like the epitome of damsel in distress :P Armor that shows the belly exists for little purpose other than to show off the stomach. I don't complain about the leather harness sets and subligars because they're the same on men and women (Excluding the bra on the women because well game ratings). The DRG AF is not however. Plus, go ahead and talk about the bunny GS set or the new dancer esque set in that thread where the OP is asking for male versions. The game is lacking on a few fronts.
Excuse me for thinking critically about the media I consume? I'm sure a lot of people find belly's attractive.. Look at the advent of female belly dancers and all that advocacy for a smooth (Not toned!) stomach. If I see a girl with a large spear coming at me with a giant bellyhole, you know what I'm going to do? Go "Huh, well time to jam something sharp in that huge opening in her armor!" then laugh as she allowed for such a silly opening in her armor to exist.
Fighting styles being different isn't a good explanation, others have already said why. Keep listing reason if you'd like. -
06-14-2015, 09:46 PMFelisJust play as a tank. The "tightly fitted" gear don't exist as tank gear in this gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
If this is about the coliseum gear, it is "let's start a show" gear and not even tank gear (not WAR and PLD exclusive)Quote:
Considering I'd look at a dude changing into battle wearing a loincloth and ask what the hell is he doing, yes those who wear little clothes and are charging into battle aren't something to be taken seriously. Seriously, ask yourself, if a dude came up to you saying that he's a proud warrior and all he's wearing is a metal codpiece, would you take him serious? If so, why?
"Thightly fitted" gear will be only a design fail on tanks, not on the other job types who don't need full protection over agility.
Example:
http://media.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/FFX1.jpg
Auron, as a tank, is full covered. While Wakka, a ranged attack type, show a lot of skin to get the feeling of agility. And I don't think it exist somewhere a thread where someone find that Wakka show too much skin instead to be full-protected. -
06-14-2015, 09:48 PMArcaviusGreyasheAh ! good ol' Patriarchy ! Men having all the power, women being sexy and stupid being that shall do the kitchening while we, proud men, can do our job, drinking beer and fighting in pubs ! What a pleasant time !Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
... I'm sorry, what ?
First, game developers aren't all straight male, and even if they'd be... God, all straight male don't picture themselves as brave warriors and conquerors, and women as... I don't even know how to put it. B*tches waiting them home. What the hell ? We're human beings, you know =( -
06-14-2015, 09:48 PMSamcaesarI'll stick to healer and their robes, thank you very much. That's the point of this thread, asking SE to make sure that the tank gear doesn't take a route that the DRG AF did. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
They aren't, but I can tell you it's not unusual, especially for large studios like SE is. Plus.. Considering SE designed the Au Ra, the girls looking like they needed to be protected and keep a have a small form, it drifts into that sort of field of thought. People have power fantasies, it's not unusual either (Nor do I blame those who have them), we are playing video games where we're literally the hero(es) of Eorzea. It's just a request that the power fantasy exists for both men and women or if they're going to make one of them have a more sex appeal-esque route, they ought to do the same for the other sex as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe
I apologize if I've offended you, sincerely. -
06-14-2015, 09:50 PMCanadaneHey now, the Noct Lorica fit tightly across my abs to the point it showed off those secret abdominal muscles on my flanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-14-2015, 09:54 PMSamcaesarJust like MGS Solid Snake! Be proud soldier!Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
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06-14-2015, 09:59 PMMistyMew
Please DO alter it!!
The skimpier the better yup, I too am female irl and would much much prefer a change between male to female versions..in all gear. :D
I cant stand stuffy head to toe armor, it sucks and is totally boringgg IMO <-- imo!! :mad:
Sorry but I simply prefer a more "fantasy" style gear always have and always will.
To each his own though ..personally I would prefer a LARGE variety of statless vanity fantasy sets [/U]at mogstation or via GC/golden saucer/crafted, etc.. but actual fantasy style gear!!
That would please me, keep af as tacky as you want, it just wouldnt matter, as long as they one day offer true fantasy gear to glamor with. Seeing the new af online, I already know I would glamor out all jobs.
ALL gearstyles should have many options to choose from, as it stands now there is very little choice at all.
♥ -
06-14-2015, 10:07 PMFelisBut those are fake muscles, part of the gear, to show yourself stronger than you are ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
And like I said already, DRG AF is not tank gear and therefore can't work as an indicator for future tank gear designs. It is also already over 3 years old and tanks still ran around full covered if not glamoured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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06-14-2015, 10:13 PMSymon17Generally doesn't mean all, and that might not describe you at all. But consider the devs of ffxiii being quoted as giving Lightning bigger boobs so they could jiggle saying "Since everyone can decide what costume she’ll wear, you can make sure it does (laughs). By the way, since Lightning swings her arm when you change her weapon in the menu screen, that’s a recommended action for sure-fire jiggling! To see it even better it could be useful to equip a small shield. Look forward to it!" and also "The costume is sexy, and the victory pose will change depending on the costume. This one is particularly sexy." ffxiii and xiv don't have the exact same team, but these are actual square enix employees, so I really don't think samcaeser was off in addressing it as a real developer mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe
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06-14-2015, 10:20 PMValkyrie_Lenneth
I think people are just making up issues where they don't really exist, just to try to prove a point that doesn't really need to be made for this game.
Sam's response to anyone wanting to be fully armored yet still feminine is "Go wear a plate bikini"
I think that says more about them that it does about the rest of us.
They seem to ignore the High Allagan set as if it doesn't exist and can't exist in this game where the only options are "plate bikini" or "bulky mail" .
Also, if going by "real life armor" standards, armor has to be fitted, or else it doesn't work right.
Armor that isn't fitted to the body and just bounces around will injure the person wearing it. -
06-14-2015, 10:29 PMOukanna
I wouldn't mind it being slightly more figure hugging at all, as that will make it look like it fits. However it should definitely look like a proper bad-ass suit of Armour. I do not want to see underboob, bellybuttons and thighs ;-p That would just leave me open to enemy attacks T_T
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06-14-2015, 10:30 PMDanixdrake
It's nice to see people are passionate about these subject matters and they are all important factors but some of you are missing a crucial detail.
The art, this game has a fantastic art team behind it that all work really hard to come up with these gearsets, sometimes they are wonderful sometimes they are not great but people still put a lot of their time and effort into making these. Now when they drew them I doubt they were thinking 'Women should some boobs cos that's women for ya!' or 'I must make this armour as gender neutral as possible because EQUALITY 4 ALL!' no it's I'm going to work on this and make something visually striking/appealing.
So can we not bash the art team please as not only are they pretty much already under appreciated (these guys pumped out 100 of sets for us) but everyone is starting to think they have an agenda and they are trying to destroy people's rights...which is no. Relax, have fun enjoy the work :) -
06-14-2015, 10:32 PMArcaviusGreyashe
I know, Sam, Symon, I Just wanted to do a less serious message to lighten a bit the atmosphere x)
I'd Just like That the thread does not drift to become a critic of men in general. I like the idea of the belly Window because of lore reasons, I think it's justified and so. But in the case of DRK, I see no reason why there may be some change like That...
What I try to express since the beginning is That : I'm against any form of discrimination not justified, and I'll stand with you if it was to happen, but as long as it's justified, everything is fine by me.
And having a sexy DRK outfit would be a pain in the a** for me, as I want to use the actual one in RP with my Hyurgoth =( -
06-14-2015, 10:41 PMseida
Tying to justify the belly window because of "lore" is what bothers me. It's stupid, there is no reason for it, it's nothing to do with "flexibility".... I don't know why people can't just admit they LIKE SEEING FEMALE CHARACTERS SHOW SKIN. Because that's what it is. And it makes me laugh when people try to give in any other reason. "artistic vision" etc... guess what the motivation behind that piece of artistic vision was.
And of course, that's cool, a lot of us like skimpy glamours.
But my issue, and most people's I think, is that AF GEAR is not the place for it. AF gear should be basically unisex, because it's the symbolic job gear. -
06-14-2015, 10:51 PMHypieFine im admit it so that you can rest easy. Im a sexist! i want woman in mmos wear nothing but revealing stripes of cloth so i can play 5 against willy in front of my pc!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by seida
So are we done with this Bullshit now? Its a damn ilvl 50 Chest Piece for F*ck Sake. If they patch it right and the Dark Knight can use the same Raidequip from Warrior and Paladin, you won't even equip it! So calm down already.
All this Hatred over some missed Pixels is ridiculous. -
06-14-2015, 10:57 PMArcaviusGreyashe
Because they don't necessarily, Seida...
Seeing skin, male, female, fishy... Yup. That's cells. Not pretty cells. Just cells. Honestly, I don't care at all about That, and be honest... How many people do you know That stayed on FFXIV because of That AF ? That glamour it, even ?
That's not even a piece people like. It's Just what it is...
Oh, and for the Au Ra, the reason why female are so small and pretty... Is because of the community. If more people had played a female hyurgoth or a female roegadyn, they may have been more massive, more impressive... People play miqo'te, devs give them simili-Miqo'te. That's plain marketing, this time... -
06-14-2015, 11:17 PMReinha"Seriousness" is in the eye of the beholder just like beauty, and what is considered a proper outfit for the situation is cultural. You make it sound like your own vision of "serious" battle gear is a universally accepted one, when that is not the case. Some cultures have a history of fighting in cloth or leather outfits or even topless, and in no way does that make them less deadly opponents. These guys look pretty serious to me:Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
http://www.pixelcreation.fr/fileadmi...s_300_film.jpg
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/markh...00-roae-12.jpg
Some African tribes have their male warriors wear a codpiece and warpaint but I couldn't find any battle pictures. If one of them was charging at me with a spear, I would most certainly take it seriously. Why? Because I don't judge people based on what they wear but instead by their behavior (aggressive, experienced and fearless in this context) and accomplishments (victories in battle). Bruce Lee wore cloth but he is still one of the most famous fighters of our time.
Just to clarify, I use phrases "tightly fitted" and "form fitting" to mean the kind of plate armor I and Kosmos have posted. The metal plating isn't any thinner on the female version in my eyes, it is simply fitted to the body way better than the male version.
In the end the matter of suitable battle gear comes down to personal taste and fighting style. Your taste in gear is quite apparent at this point as you have called or implied feminine styled armor to be silly, nonsensical, an unneeded change, less serious, ridiculous and stupid looking. It's still just one person's opinion regardless of how many times it's repeated or what kind of phrases are used to disregard the opposing opinion. -
06-14-2015, 11:32 PMseidaWow, way to completely overreact AND misinterpret what I said. No need to throw a tantrum. Don't know where you're getting "hatred" from either... you certainly seem to be full of hate though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypie
Please, tell me why the female DRG armour has a belly window. I just think it's funny that people rant on about it not being sexist, but don't actually have a reason for it being the way it is apart from "artistic vision". Yes, I'm sure it's aesthetically pleasing to the designers. But if you actually think for just one moment about why that is, maybe you can understand?
Why are you so angry? I'm certainly not. But apparently pointing out some truths makes people upset.
Like... it's the way the world is. It's a fact. I'm a woman, I'm used to it. We get this stuff rubbed in our faces every day. Yeah, XIV is generally really good about equal armour. And apparently that means we should shut up and be grateful because "it could be worse".
No one is trying to get them to change the DRG armour. We are just airing our opinions that it would be better if they avoided doing such things in the future.
Like, the type of armour Reinha posted is really nice. It's serious yet feminine looking, and that's fine. Similarly, super skimpy armour is also fine is it is ALSO skimpy on men.
But the fact is, there are several cases where male gear covers up, but female gear exposes. And yet, there are no cases where female gear covers up and the male version exposes.
Sorry that people hoping for equal gear bothers you :) -
06-14-2015, 11:52 PMDGladius
I like armor that shows more skin on female compared to male which is why I changed to female on my char. They look good on my char for several jobs. For the most part, if there's something I don't like wearing I glam to something else. Easy as that.
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06-14-2015, 11:53 PMZanther
I dont care either way with topics like these. This topic can be answered 3 words as to why 51 pages was unnecessary, and why your female armor will have these slight differences however.
Japan doesn't care.
And they shouldn't ever care about outsider opinions. -
06-15-2015, 12:05 AMHypieIm just tired of this Discussion and i have a headache nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by seida
Why does it have a Belly Window. Because the Artist in Charge for the Dragoon Class Armor liked the Design and decided it like that. End of Story. Nothing more. You can't change it no matter how much you critize it. If they like a Design on a female Char they will go with it. Doesn't matter to them if you, i or any other player in this forum will find it skimpy, sexism or whatever you call it. -
06-15-2015, 12:08 AMseidaOh ok, guess they shouldn't listen to the people who want separate horns on au ra then... maybe we shouldn't even HAVE this forum if our opinions are worthless. I mean it's not like a sizeable portion of subscribers are non-japanese or anything!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanther
And no need to generalise, my Japanese bf hates skimpy gear on his miqote and has complained several times about the dragoon af :)
Yes, and why do you think the artist liked it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypie
If you read my post, I'm not trying to change it. I just want them to avoid doing stuff like that in the future. -
06-15-2015, 12:17 AMHypieWell if it calms you down, its his not personal Taste alone. For a Class Armor there will be several Trials needed to be passed. Maybe the Fem Armor with no Belly Window didn't make the cut. Only SE knows. The entire Design Team and the "Overlord Leader" agreed to it and then it happened like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by seida
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06-15-2015, 01:05 AMRiastradFFXIV's rerelease as A Real Reborn says otherwise. They had to listen to outsiders (westerners) because most XIV players were on PC. There are many reports that state that Japanese gamers play mostly on consoles. Western audiences were/are the majority of their player base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanther
A Warrior should look like a Warrior and a Paladin as a Paladin, etc. For the most part this game does well enough on that. However, AF should not omit parts of itself regardless of gender.
The changes to Dragoons artifact gear are laughable at best. The defense of it is just silly.
Flexibility and bone structure are just odd reasonings for it when male and female characters alike use the same exact animations. -
06-15-2015, 01:10 AMAlacran
There really isn't anything wrong with revealing glamours, i have said it before I rather enjoy my alt ware reaveling outfits because at the end of the day i am a guy after all.
Current Monk glamour for alt and main:
http://i.imgur.com/7sI9MKQ.png
The issue is with AF, lore created content that specifically of the Jobs representation and our characters journey to becoming that job. That I truly feel should not focus on gender as much.
Being a great Monk, a follower of Ala Mhigo martial teachings has nothing to do with gender. I feel the Monk AF depicts that.
http://i.imgur.com/GKG3Lw2.png
While The Warrior armor is changed to an extent it is not so different for either, nor should it be. A proud group of Warriors bearing both the armor and the skills of their proud traditions should be looked at with both awe and a little fear.
http://i.imgur.com/epDrrle.png
What happened to the Dragoon, I do not know, it simply makes no sense other than a needless show of skin for one gender. That's it, as different as men and women are for the most part vital organs are still in the same general area. Skewered is Skewered as is being eviscerated, I don't care how pretty you look in peep show armor, if your goal is to be a Dragoon , then forgetting to armor your stomach is a death wish. It is an insult to both your intelligence and mine to claim a biological/ necessary reason for one gender to be have less armor than the other when both are by lore supposed to be serious dedicated slayers of Dragon kind.
http://i.imgur.com/gtd4TNL.png
This should not happen again. -
06-15-2015, 01:16 AMFelisIt was not because of the gearQuote:
Originally Posted by Riastrad
So the female DGR as a whole don't look like a DRG AF to you? The gear is 90% identical to the male counterpart.Quote:
A Warrior should look like a Warrior and a Paladin as a Paladin, regardless of gender.
Don't you see the knee window on the female AF? ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran
Not good if she fall. -
06-15-2015, 01:21 AMRiastradOf course it wasn't. The jobs came long after it was already dubbed a failure. It was due to the crippling lag, fatigue system, copy pasted environments and lack of content beyond guildleves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
As for the Drg af, it look mostly the same but with some odd holes cut into it. Looks like it needs to go back to the smithy for repairs. I honestly meant it should look the same regardless of gender. Well, at least it should be covered the same. There is room for the feminine figure, but cutting holes into armor for "flexibility" and "bone strucuture" (how many bones do you have in your belly anyways?) isn't the best course of action.
Edited previous post to reflect my intent. -
06-15-2015, 01:39 AMAlacranIs that not for flexibility or her different bone structure? Surely with some of the arguments for less armor on female avatars this can be inaccurately explained.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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06-15-2015, 02:15 AMArcaviusGreyashe
Yeah, Alacran, the theory of "game artists are Just perverts" is way more interesting than using the lore armors to think about the lore... Small changes like those of MNK, BRD and WAR'AFs are not interesting because it's Just to make the armor a little bit more feminine, but a huge difference like the one on DRG AF has to mean something.
Laugh all you want, I try to think about the game, you try to make fun of me. Not sure who's laughable here =( -
06-15-2015, 03:49 AMAlacranI'm not actually singling you out to be completely honest. The argument has been made multiple times by others, I simply chose this time to make reference to that particular argument. If for what ever reason the changes were part of lore as by example a Berserker class/ job were to be released lore dictates they would use as little armor as possible. This was a documented tactic to increase their ferocity. There is no lore for the changes to female AF, no reason to have defective, unfinished, broken armor in comparison to their male counterparts. Plain and simple it was made to draw attention to the female figure, it in my opinion cheapens the overall presentation of the Job. if female do not need the scale covering on their torso's then males do not need it either. When lore states Halone herself strode in to battle bare chested and with all her power did bring ruin of The Dravanian Horde thus setting the example all Dragoons would follow thousands of years latter, the the lore of armor would have been satisfied.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe