[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

Why wouldn't they use poison? Rydia had many dots and status effects with Bio being her best one

And who else? -_- wt about garnet yuna? I say like arcsnist description. Geometrical and arcane symbols. Where the hell are? Smn must use dimensional manipulation and time-Space magics

Rydia is the original Summoner with a character, if you want to complain about us having DoTs you'd have to complain about us not having holy and white magic as well if you want to bring Yuna or Garnet into it.
If you pay attention to any of our spell casting animations they have those symbols. Also printed all in the books
Dimensional magic and time/space magic falls into the realm of... Time mage! Who could have imagined there was a class for that. And if you meant something else your grammar is too terrible for me to figure it out

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

Y a smn uses poisons? Like bio miasma etc. Cmon guys use ur heads. If it was a dot its ok but not a poison dot. Change name and visual effect its ok....but y poisons.

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This only makes sense if you've ONLY played FFXI and no other games.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

And pls teacher can u tell me wheres the geometry and symbols in miasma bio fester bio II and bane? Because it seems im blind while u Got superultra sight.....ahhhhh i forgot ur a teacher!

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http://i.imgur.com/EQHc1cl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kPdqSPs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4C1UFuh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ayclivo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/INVp2UP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7qDPCma.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m5z7tjj.jpg

Wohoo we Got teachers here.
I didnt mean that holy fits with summoner....
And pls teacher can u tell me wheres the geometry and symbols in miasma bio fester bio II and bane? Because it seems im blind while u Got superultra sight.....ahhhhh i forgot ur a teacher!




............


Dont make me laugh.

Tri disaster has it. And its very good...

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Originally Posted by Dwill

I wonder if people even look at the name of the egi's abilities before asking for new ones:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Mountain_Buster
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Landslide

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Well look at that lol. Well i probably was more turned off by the design choice the egis took in both their attacks and ESPECIALLY APPEARANCE that i completely overlooked that.

Also i blame the use of mostly Garuda for my lack of seeing abilities. She has a few attacks that have actual names and only one of them is present, Aerial Blast. If anyone is used besides Garuda you become a leper by the community and therefore the other egis are ignored and I dont see or use them often

Well no more complaining for me, there will be more jobs in the future and only the people who like summoner will stick with it. Let's move on people.

Arcanists and the Time Mage are different names for the same class since they both use Arcane Magic which is Dimensional and Space-Time Magic. They also both use dots except they are slow, bleed, break, comet, meteor and Shadow Flare which acts like a dark version of flare.

Summoner would summon primals by using dimensional magic.

And u really think that a GEOMETRICAL VISUAL EFFECT? LOL

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

And u really think that a GEOMETRICAL VISUAL EFFECT? LOL

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I see geomtric shapes in those effects. What was it that you were expecting?

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Arcanists and the Time Mage are different names for the same class since they both use Arcane Magic which is Dimensional and Space-Time Magic. They also both use dots except they are slow, bleed, break, comet, meteor and Shadow Flare which acts like a dark version of flare.

Summoner would summon primals by using dimensional magic.

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Do us all a favor and cite your reasonings WITHIN FFXIV's lore. Each game has different rules, options, and playstyles. Even the games that offer similar content still play differently. Your arguments are that the SMN of 14 are not the Summoners of other games which is comparing a florida orange to a blood orange. Might have orange in the name, but the fruits play the game differently.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Shay

Do us all a favor and cite your reasonings WITHIN FFXIV's lore. Each game has different rules, options, and playstyles. Even the games that offer similar content still play differently. Your arguments are that the SMN of 14 are not the Summoners of other games which is comparing a florida orange to a blood orange. Might have orange in the name, but the fruits play the game differently.

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Lore isn't an excuse as to why a class/job is a certain way or have certain abilities. I defined both lore and class for you to clear up any confusions.
Class Lore- The collective knowledge, history and mythology of the class
Character Class- The aggregate of several abilities and aptitudes, and detail aspects of background and social standing or impose behavior restrictions.

In the context of Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn it means that Arcanist and Summoner don't represent what they are suppose to be and should either be reworked to reflect their name or have their name changed.
Collection of abilities and traits that fall under Arcanists are split between two categories are Dark which includes Break, Bleed, Energy Drain, Tri-Disaster, Slow, Slow II, Dark, Dark II, Gravity, Gravity II, Aether Flow, Ruin, Ruin II and Shadow Flare tweaked to deal 260 dark damage to all enemies nearby. Under Light we have Cure, Cure II, Bubble, Haste, Haste II, Float, Reflect, Reflect II, Vanish and Vanish II.
Collection of abilities and traits that fall under Summoner are Summon Magic, Enhanced Pet Trait, Pet buffs and Boss level Pets.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Snip

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Akiza, SE isn't going to rewrite the whole game again just because you want SMN's to be OP and flashier.
It's time to let go...

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Akiza, SE isn't going to rewrite the whole game again just because you want SMN's to be OP and flashier.
It's time to let go...

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Arguing with Akiza is akin to arguing with a rock. If I were you, I'd spend my energy elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Class Lore- The collective knowledge, history and mythology of the class
Character Class- The aggregate of several abilities and aptitudes, and detail aspects of background and social standing or impose behavior restrictions.

In the context of Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn it means that Arcanist and Summoner don't represent what they are suppose to be and should either be reworked to reflect their name or have their name changed.

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funny thing about all this. the past does not dictate the future. SE wants x-class to behave so and so way, they can. using your own words here; "in the context of Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn" Arcanist and Summoner are doing exactly what the developers wanted them to do in this game. at no point was the power to decide anything handing to Akiza to say "hey, you made this class perform wrong".

let it go ppl, with gazillion problems happening right now with the game why would they try to fix something that is working 110% fine. think about it...think about all the problems,issues,glitches and errors this game has and now think about the ARC class...these "issues" are 1000000x small compared to the bad things happening. Learn to let it go, go spend your energy somewhere else, maybe go to another page and complain about atma 'cause while youre here still complaining about the class, someone might be done with the class, has ilv110 on it, killed more than 1,000,000 fiends with it, and youre still here saying "its not working", well maybe youre not trying hard enough. A person who loves being an ARC will overlook the clothing, the powers, the pets and all these "issues" you ppl posted about. Maybe ARC is not for you, have you thought about that? be a BLM or a WHM and move on.

The thing is that the Class is in fact working. But what we r complaining is that it DOSENT fit the lore and the description of what a real summoner is. Just that. For example. Just changs visual effect of skills and chamge names. Its good enough.

It fits the lore and description of what a summoner is in FFXIV.
This is not any other game, stop thinking as such. And ignore anything Akiza posts because he just makes up shit

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Originally Posted by Madoka

It fits the lore and description of what a summoner is in FFXIV.
This is not any other game, stop thinking as such. And ignore anything Akiza posts because he just makes up shit

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The lore is vague on what abilities a class should have in FFXIV
Arcanists universally have access to all forms of magic elemental, healing and non-elemental in the case of WoW there are three different specs their Pet specialization demonology uses DOT Space-Time and Dimensional Magic with 2 or disease spells.

FFXIV followed the WoW model for their Arcanist/Summoner but instead of staying true to the class/job decided to turn the Arcanist into a Affliction Mage mainly using diseases for DOT instead Dimensional and Space-Time Magic and the Summoner doesn't even have a Pet spec similar to Demonology.
The reason why WoW was great was because they took what Everquest did and made it 10 times better
FFXIV took the Pet class from WoW gutted it making it 10 times worse.

@Akiza-
Why do you keep insisting Arcanists/Summoner should use space/time/dimensional magic? What is that based on? Its not other Final fantasy titles. Why do you keep insisting summoner should be focused on their pets? Final Fantasy 11 was the only other time the summoner was a pet class. Why do you keep insisting they shouldn't use diseases? Bio, Virus, and Miasma are all spells from previous Final Fantasies.

Once again ALL magic in ff14 is derived from controlling Aether. The methods to do so are separated by guild/school/color. Mages use these "spells" to control the aether to perform magics to complete their jobs' role-

“Conjury calls upon the elements of earth, wind, and water and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings. A wand or cane made from unworked wood is then utilized to focus the aether until it manifests as the desired spell. Versed also in magicks that restore and strengthen, conjurers are regarded as accomplished healers.”
—Game Description

“In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction. At the heart of this school of magic lies the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection. To then mold that aether into sorcery, the thaumaturge makes use of a scepter or staff, within which is housed a medium—a natural stone imbued with magical properties. Thus armed, the thaumaturge is capable of wreaking considerable havoc via ruinous spells and curses.”
—Game Description

“Adepts of the art of arcanum derive their might from symbols of power born of geometric techniques hailing from across the southern seas. Held within occult grimoires, these symbols lend shape to the arcanist's aether, thereby allowing him to produce myriad powerful spells. Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.”
—Game Description

Think of aether like the visible light spectrum. White mages nature attunement allows them to control the aether with short "wave lengths" like ultra violet rays. While black mages control aether with long "wave lengths" like radio waves. Its all derived from the same place but offers different uses.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The lore is vague on what abilities a class should have in FFXIV
Arcanists universally have access to all forms of magic elemental, healing and non-elemental in the case of WoW there are three different specs their Pet specialization demonology uses DOT Space-Time and Dimensional Magic with 2 or disease spells.

FFXIV followed the WoW model for their Arcanist/Summoner but instead of staying true to the class/job decided to turn the Arcanist into a Affliction Mage mainly using diseases for DOT instead Dimensional and Space-Time Magic and the Summoner doesn't even have a Pet spec similar to Demonology.
The reason why WoW was great was because they took what Everquest did and made it 10 times better
FFXIV took the Pet class from WoW gutted it making it 10 times worse.

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Everytime I read one of your post, I think you can't get worse than that yet you successfully prove me wrong everytime.

P.S. Not understanding the lore ≠ the lore being vague.

Akiza is a Tumblr level troll.

Akiza, Its like she is fighting for the Acanists rights, lol get over yourself, like I said, if you dont like to throw diseases or whatever on the fiends, and you think your pet is useless, then burn the fiends or freeze them to death and join the dark side by becoming a BLM, or you can keep complaning about being an Arcanist like a baby while the creator laughs at your face cuz who are you to change his mind and his creations? if he made it that way guess what? he wanted that way, he doesnt want your opinion, he wants your money, which is sad but its the truth and, if you want to quit then youre welcome to do that too. let.it.go. be more open minded and accept the fact that you are not special, he is not going to change the Arcanist class, and he will definitely not change it because of you, you're complaining about the Arcanist class to ordinary people, people who cant do anything. We cant do anything about it, so stop.

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Originally Posted by hdepaula

Akiza, Snip

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This thread is for the developers to get feedback on classes/jobs and I'm posting my feedback. This thread is not for players to complain about other players post like what your doing hdepaula so go away unless you have feed back that you want to provide concerning the Arcansit/Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

This thread is for the developers to get feedback on classes/jobs and I'm posting my feedback. This thread is not for players to complain about other players post like what your doing hdepaula so go away unless you have feed back that you want to provide concerning the Arcansit/Summoner.

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I'm pretty sure any sane developers have already put you on a list of feedback to ignore.

http://media.giphy.com/media/CPdIJs4h6wyxW/giphy.gif

This thread is poll to see how many people want to see the Arcanist/Summoner Class/Job reworked and I voted yes not for how many players can complain about others ideas. Players could've suggested ideas similar to mine using the in game suggestion system there are always players suggesting a Arcanist/Summoner rework during the live letter so I'm not the only one who wants to see the class improved upon. If we listen to all the negative players on the forum nothing will ever change and get better.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

This thread is poll to see how many people want to see the Arcanist/Summoner Class/Job reworked and I voted yes not for how many players can complain about others ideas. Players could've suggested ideas similar to mine using the in game suggestion system there are always players suggesting a Arcanist/Summoner rework during the live letter so I'm not the only one who wants to see the class improved upon. If we listen to all the negative players on the forum nothing will ever change and get better.

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There is nothing wrong with wanting a different playstyle for Summoner. After all, that's what the creator of this thread made it for. There are, however, many things wrong with stating opinions as if they were facts, misinforming the other posters with inaccurate information and denying or rejecting valid points.

It is also expected that people who suggest opinions take into consideration the boundaries and restrictions that a character needs to have that would not make its class stand out among the rest in terms of damage, ease of use and many other factors that need to be weighted in the equation. Some of the posts in this thread are stupid (and I'm being nice).

The future of Summoner is already decided. They have already given the answer here on the forums and you already have an example for future egi models with Ramuh's adds. They follow the same style that our current models have. If Summoner is to change at all it will be in 3.0 and it will be because of an entire Armoury System overhaul, meaning fine tuning abilities and maybe adding/taking a couple of abilities to jobs/classes. The essense of the jobs, however, is here to stay. This means that Summoner will be a DoT caster who is supplemented by a pet.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

If we listen to all the negative players on the forum nothing will ever change and get better.

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This is quite possibly the only sensible thing you've ever said. But the reverse is, if we listen to every hair-brained, poorly fleshed out ideas then everything will change and for the much worse. So please, use your intellect when designing. Or stop posting. Whichever is easier.

Every game is different, this is just a different game with a different playstyle.

Players make suggestions and provide feed back without regard to implementation and game balance because it's not their job. The developer has the responsibility of reading players feed back and suggestions and deciding how to implement then with regard to game balance.

I agree and I hope、 for the sake of this game、 they never read yours.

http://img.pandawhale.com/47677-stor...d-LOL-QvkW.gif

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Players make suggestions and provide feed back without regard to implementation and game balance because it's not their job. The developer has the responsibility of reading players feed back and suggestions and deciding how to implement then with regard to game balance.

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When are you going to read their feedback? They don't want to change egi appearance or the fundamentals.

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Originally Posted by Valignor

3) Minor changes to compensate us for our lack of burst and long dps ramp. Cast times removed off Bio2 and Miasma.

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You would like to have an instant boss killing skill too right?
The burst and the casts are good as they are, anw

YES

I would like to see the smn reworked so it could be more focused on actual SUMMONING. I mean, the job is very cool, i love it, but it has almost nothing to do with summoning

yes

The class feels overall like it is missing what makes a summoner. Their power should come from their summons with their spells be cast through their summons or their spells taking on the aspects of their current summon. I recently came back to the game and I still forget about my summon most of the time except to extend my dots. I feel like a wannabe warlock still even a year later.

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000...1812.strip.gif

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Originally Posted by Zaresin

The class feels overall like it is missing what makes a summoner. Their power should come from their summons with their spells be cast through their summons or their spells taking on the aspects of their current summon. I recently came back to the game and I still forget about my summon most of the time except to extend my dots. I feel like a wannabe warlock still even a year later.

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This may be a pet peeve of mine, but why the wow references? Isn't blm like the wow Mage in just as many respects?

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Originally Posted by dragonfire8974

This may be a pet peeve of mine, but why the wow references? Isn't blm like the wow Mage in just as many respects?

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And just like Warriors shares a lot of similarities to a Blood Death Knight. People can hardly see past these similarities to other MMO classes and make an actual valid opinion that isn't just based on said similarities.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

And just like Warriors shares a lot of similarities to a Blood Death Knight. People can hardly see past these similarities to other MMO classes and make an actual valid opinion that isn't just based on said similarities.

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I wouldn't have put it quite like that, but yes, that's pretty much the reason (and my friends, who have all played WoW [although I never have] often make references to job similarities with Warrior and Paladin).

Due to the suggestions of certain posters in this thread, it seems to be devolving into the thread of "No," beating down any nails that stick out in favor of changes. That said, the "suggestions" in the last few pages are quite outlandish, so I don't blame people for saying "No." Even I would at this point, and I'm in favor of seeing adjustments. (Note: not a reworking of the job, just adjustments)

The developers have stated somewhere amidst the sea of lolz and .gifs on these forums that they will be:

1. Reviewing the balance of the Egi. Contagion is, in my opinion, a point of contention for many players as it can easily overshadow any Egi released in the future as it already does now in many situations. There's no telling how they're going to balance the Egi, but I hope they give each and every one some meaningful utility that gives players incentive to use all of them.

2. Review skills that are rarely used. During the NicoNico Choukaigi event (this, or a previous live letter), he stated they would revisit skills collecting dust in the arsenals of Eorzea's adventurers, offering up Tridisaster as a primary example.

The basic playstyle of the Summoner job seems fine to me, but I would be lieing if I said there aren't small issues and quality of life issues that sorely need addressing.

However, it pains me to say that the community on this forum doesn't seem to be ready to sit down and have an intelligent discussion about how to address the minor issues that could, in my humble opinion, make summoner more enjoyable even for the people crying out for sweeping changes.