Yes, the debate is over. You heard it from the same guy who said he expects DPS to carry tanks that only do autoattacks and 1-2-3 aggro combo by pulling 85-90% of their theoretical calculated DPS potential:Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requestsQuote:
Yoshida: When we make battle content, first we determine a minimum assumed item level required to clear. Then, we determine the total amount of party damage required to clear, taking a minimal amount of damage from tanks and healers into account during this calculation.
What do you mean by minimal?
Yoshida: Basically it's the damage from tank auto-attacks and the basic skill rotation used in order to maintain hate. We add this to the party damage needed. However, we often use zero in the calculation for damage required from healers. In other words, we only take into account the amount of damage necessary to perform as a tank or a healer and we don't take them into account as actively participating in attacking. For the clear assumption on DPS, we calculate the 100% value for the item level and we reduce that by 10 to 15 percent for the amount required to clear.
Healers and tanks are leecher roles intended to ignore a good half of their skills by design, so please stop arguing now. Yoshi said so. If you're playing DPS, you may find that a teeny weeny bit unfair, but that's clearly just jealousy.
Also, don't lick this post or you may suffer from sarcasm poisoning.
Dps As Healer
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03-12-2017, 09:37 PMZojha
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03-12-2017, 09:40 PMMisutoraru
I hope in 4.0 dungeon, we will have some heal intense dungeon while CS will be disabled
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03-12-2017, 09:44 PMSylveI'm not surprised. All the Jobs have a clearly defined role within the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey
The fact that players started using the tools they gave Healers for solo play in group play is quite literally a case of creative use of game mechanics on the part of the players.
Part of the fault for players doing that lies in the extreme raw power of healers on a per heal basis and the comparative lack of healing needed in dungeons and raids.
Though overgearing content is partly to blame too. Healers just need mechanics similar to AST cards, in that the healer can boost the party when its not actively restoring HP. That would have been a better route in general. -
03-12-2017, 09:47 PMLexiaOh my I could only imagine the amount of salt that would come from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey
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03-12-2017, 09:50 PMLexia
How about the just get rid of Cleric Stance, have jobs like whm based on your their mind stat. Then I could see the argument of being lazy for not dpsing when healing not needed cause you could do what ever is needed without having to worry about what stance you are in.
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03-12-2017, 10:01 PMloreleidiangeloThis statement confuses me, because ASTs still DPS just as much as their other healer counterparts even taking card fussing into consideration. "Just focus on using cards" isn't a community-accepted excuse for not DPSing any more than "SCHs just focus on using your fairy abilities" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Can you clarify what you mean by saying that? -
03-12-2017, 10:01 PMDuelleYou do know that those things you're trying to vilify go hand in hand, right? Standing in the bad stuff as a tank means I'm either going to be dead, near death as a result, or something happens as a result that will make it a lot easier for me to die (see: vulnerability debuffs that can't be removed via Esuna/Leeches/Detriment). It's not just "take damage, get healed" like you're trying to paint it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Casting heals is only part of what people expect from a healer. Debuff removal and (where applicable) crowd control also come into the mix. Just because SE hasn't done it does not mean it doesn't exist.Quote:
Healing only is frankly pointless. Your only job is to make sure no one dies. It does not matter what health they are at as long as it's not 0. So then being good at healing beyond "keeping people alive" literally amounts to nothing in the progression of a fight. The boss won't suddenly surrender and submit to your supreme ability to "keep HP bars full". It doesn't make sense from a game or even real life prospective.
This is where you can compensate via gameplay. Not all healers have to play like a WHM or SCH. People who liked to brag about their "skill" hated it, but smart heals would be a good way to draw in people who may find conventional healing more difficult. Or a healer more reliant on keeping HoTs up (think a resto druid) where upkeep of HoTs is supplemented by targeted heals.Quote:
Increasing the healing intensity without understanding why it's currently low is also another point that needs to be made. There are people of varying skill levels. This is something I've learned as a cold hard fact and is borderline impossible to change. And frankly, with Survival being a constraint that needs to be met, akin to DPS checks, if it's too hard, then you will see success rates of content drop to abysmal levels. Healing downtime is an evil necessity so that even the poorest player has a chance. What you do with your downtime determines how good a player you are.
Except this causes healers to be one way or the other; there's no middle ground because you're terrible if you focus on healing and "good" if you DPS. If your entire argument for Cleric Stance hinges on the idea of doing above X DPS (because even in situations where you can't switch into Cleric Stance, you can still at least put an Aero/AeroII/AeroIII on the mob), then yes, you're focusing on e-peen and not something that is native to healer gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilseph
If you want a healer that deals damage as part of their gameplay, there are venues for that sort of thing. Just be prepared for the problems that come with that, like that class becoming mandatory if the meta were to allow it (becuz t3h d33pz), or for that healer to be weaker in certain ways to compensate (Disc Priests in WoW come to mind).
We can also talk about DPS skills as a mechanic advantage for healers. Use a DPS skill => get something that makes your heals better. That would help everyone adjust to using damage skills as a healer because it props up your primary function. I've mentioned it several times but no one seems to want to talk about that. -
03-12-2017, 10:11 PMGlenfiddich
WHM and Astro are no longer healing classes. They Are DPS Classes with the best healing abilities in the game.
I've seen many WHM out-dpsing Pure DPS classes. -
03-12-2017, 10:17 PMHyperiaThere in lies the problem, the needs for actual healing in HW has been lowered so low in dungeons that with an above average tank, its hardly needed. With an average tank, healing is needed a bit more and with a below average tank, healing needs are quite a bit more. The cause of the whole healers have to dps meta is partially due to the devs making content that requires less healing in HW than what was needed in ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by RLofOBFL
I want healing to be a bit more involved but don't want the devs to make the mistake Blizzard did in Cataclysm and make healers practically impotent and barely unable to keep people alive at the release. Blizz boosted healers quite a bit by the end of that expansion but a lot of damage was done to the healing community in the process.
Turn the dial up on healing needs but don't take it to 11. -
03-12-2017, 10:28 PMAma_HamadaThat is because people do not know how to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfiddich
what do you mean there is no middle ground? Am I supposed to be board and cast one spell every 5 minutes??Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle