They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

the we cant do it thing, said in so many games but just takes the right person to make it happen. Its something they use as a awnser all too on stuff they dont wana put in the effort to do :p

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Don't forget how they said no it's impossible for collection checkmarks on orchestration rolls and minions, and then added it!

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I believe there's a difference here.

With collection checkmarks, it's (seemingly) just a quick scan to see if you actually have access to X.

With a parser, the reason they say no is because they want to avoid harassment or toxicity as a result of the parser. This thread alone has shown that, even if a parser is added, it'll result in the exact thing they don't want to happen. How do I know that? Look through the thread and others from the past week. Or the more normal response. "look at how meters ruined <insert mmo here>" and that holds some weight, especially since the Exodus from WoW. While I welcome the refugees, it's hard to shake a habit that has been several years in the making..

People actively insulting each other for pointless reasons, or outright resorting to actual harassment purely because of a difference of opinion. While I can understand people may be "against" those that have different opinions, despite differing opinions actively causing discussions that may help both sides in the long run. You learn why they hold their stance and you help them by explaining yours.

Even if you still disagree at the end, you have both learned a small nugget that could be used to gauge other peoples opinions, should they contest yours. Turning the outright hostility into curiosity and discussion.

To that end, can you really and legitimately stand there and say a parser will not cause problems?

A personal DPS meter, sure. Make it punishable to share it if people get stupid with it, as I understand some peoples desire to use said meters for "personal improvement". That's all it should be at most. Not one single step further.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

With a parser, the reason they say no is because they want to avoid harassment or toxicity as a result of the parser. This thread alone has shown that, even if a parser is added, it'll result in the exact thing they don't want to happen. How do I know that? Look through the thread and others from the past week. Or the more normal response. "look at how meters ruined <insert mmo here>" and that holds some weight, especially since the Exodus from WoW. While I welcome the refugees, it's hard to shake a habit that has been several years in the making..

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I didn't know parsers harassed Blizzard's female employees and stole their breast milk.

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People actively insulting each other for pointless reasons, or outright resorting to actual harassment purely because of a difference of opinion. While I can understand people may be "against" those that have different opinions, despite differing opinions actively causing discussions that may help both sides in the long run. You learn why they hold their stance and you help them by explaining yours.

Even if you still disagree at the end, you have both learned a small nugget that could be used to gauge other peoples opinions, should they contest yours. Turning the outright hostility into curiosity and discussion.

To that end, can you really and legitimately stand there and say a parser will not cause problems?

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Yeap. The only ones being toxic and actually harassing people are the anti-parse crowd. I promise, reviewing someone's credentials to tell if they're in a position to be making a certain argument is not the same. That is, claiming "I do just fine without them" to backup their argument that no one should be allowed to use them when they, in fact, do not do just fine. A bruised ego and some petty insults are leagues behind witch hunting and mass reporting.

To be honest I would rather see Square Enix rework encounters that get people to engage with their class kits much more heavily and to drive optimal class play. People I think miss the point, low damage is a symptom of the current game design. Optimal rotations are very much designed around, that’s ultimately how class design works. The issue is that the skill floor as well as the checks in this game are just too low.

I’m not asking for SE to raise the checks so that only players who are GCD perfect and OGCD optimal can complete it, but I personally think that square really needs to do away with low checks that can be beaten by a player simply performing a 1-2-3 combo.

If you teach players how to engage and use their class abilities, alongside making appropriate checks in encounters, damage will rise naturally and there wouldn’t be a need for a parser.

I sure love how it's the same people making the same arguments against parsing in every thread on the topic who stop posting after receiving the same arguments they have no response to

Literally NPC's

tl;dr

Can't they just have an option to see only your own personal stats at the end of a fight ?
ex :
dealt = xxxxx ; xx% ; role average +-xx%
taken(avoidable) = xxxxx ; (unavoidable)= xxxxx ; role average +-xx% ; deaths x
heal = xxxxx ; shield = xxxxx ; effective = xxxxx ; xx% ; role average +-xx%

That way you have your own infos to see if you were good, and if you're with friends or people you're confortable with you can share ?

If people request theses infos, they are probably the kind that would be toxic anyway, so it doesn't change much.
If someone doen't want to see their stats, just have it disabled by default and with a button to see it anyway.

Have that window impossible to screenshot with the built if capture tool too, so if people share it, it's proof they use a third party tool and shall be banned XD

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

I sure love how it's the same people making the same arguments against parsing in every thread on the topic who stop posting after receiving the same arguments they have no response to

Literally NPC's

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The argument basically boils down to "it might be bad" or "Yoshi-P said it might be bad"

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Originally Posted by Kirundo

The argument basically boils down to "it might be bad" or "Yoshi-P said it might be bad"

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"it's bad because it's against TOS and it's against TOS because it's bad"

https://freethinkingministries.com/w...wd-485x282.jpg

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Originally Posted by Calysto

tl;dr

Can't they just have an option to see only your own personal stats at the end of a fight ?
ex :
dealt = xxxxx ; xx% ; role average +-xx%
taken(avoidable) = xxxxx ; (unavoidable)= xxxxx ; role average +-xx% ; deaths x
heal = xxxxx ; shield = xxxxx ; effective = xxxxx ; xx% ; role average +-xx%

That way you have your own infos to see if you were good, and if you're with friends or people you're confortable with you can share ?

If people request theses infos, they are probably the kind that would be toxic anyway, so it doesn't change much.
If someone doen't want to see their stats, just have it disabled by default and with a button to see it anyway.

Have that window impossible to screenshot with the built if capture tool too, so if people share it, it's proof they use a third party tool and shall be banned XD

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I'm afraid that keeping it private would defeat the purpose of having DPS meter in the first place. All it would do in that case is spout a number that's meaningless on its own. Ultimately your damage gives you little to no info in the vacuum. It's a piece of data that needs to be analyzed and compared. Without any anchoring or comparison it's meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Kirundo

The argument basically boils down to "it might be bad" or "Yoshi-P said it might be bad"

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And the response is "Harassment is banable offense" or "No it won't be bad". If it was always so clear and cut the world would be beautiful. It's not. While I'd love to believe that strict enforcement of rules helps with keeping community nice and open the truth is the less pleasant elements are just better at concealing it. We already practice the art of backhanded compliments and passive aggressive behavior. We already have DPS/Healers taking the role of setting a pace from a tank they feel doesn't fulfill it's role properly which judging from some topics and responses is generally acceptable behavior. Do we really need to give out another direction this type of behavior might grow?

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Originally Posted by Hoodcat

the we cant do it thing, said in so many games but just takes the right person to make it happen. Its something they use as a awnser all too on stuff they dont wana put in the effort to do :p

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It's not that they can't do it, they won't because of the exact reasons people in this thread have listed for wanting it.
They don't want harassment of players due to their DPS, they don't want to encourage kicking players from content or excluding them from PFs because of low DPS numbers.
They could very easily do it but given how toxic the people advocating for it are, especially in the high end scene, they don't want to do it and give them another tool.

Make it so you can only see your damage relative the average of everyone else in the group who is within 5 item levels of you.

Display the data only after the group is disbanded. Perhaps offer some analysis or suggestions to the player of they're not using some ability, or not in the correct sequence. Unfortunately, solo rating is only useful for DPS.

When I ran a meter in WoW, I usually didn't review the data until the event was over anyway, since it took too much time to analyze the details during the run. It did have a simple bar graph showing everyone's performance, but I felt it was useless comparing myself to others of different class / item level, which is why a built-in meter should only compare with others of very similar item level. (Same class only is impractical..)

I suppose I could simply stop caring about my performance and stand back, casting one ranged ability over and over, since I don't know if it makes a difference or not.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

We already have DPS/Healers taking the role of setting a pace from a tank they feel doesn't fulfill it's role properly which judging from some topics and responses is generally acceptable behavior. Do we really need to give out another direction this type of behavior might grow?

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Today Jaquan learns that people will always find a way to be shitty no matter what
Shock and surprise ensues

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Originally Posted by Skiros

mfw "catboy" is a pseudo-racial, pseudo-sexual slur

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Catboy in that context is pseudo-racial, because the player (me) is not a catboy. No more than you are a blond, baseball cap wearing Ala Mhigan.

Pseudo-sexual slur was in reference to poster's use of the term "fursuit" for a different poster who's avatar is a Hrothgar ... figure it out yourself.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

I didn't know parsers harassed Blizzard's female employees and stole their breast milk.


Yeap. The only ones being toxic and actually harassing people are the anti-parse crowd. I promise, reviewing someone's credentials to tell if they're in a position to be making a certain argument is not the same. That is, claiming "I do just fine without them" to backup their argument that no one should be allowed to use them when they, in fact, do not do just fine. A bruised ego and some petty insults are leagues behind witch hunting and mass reporting.

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1. Missed the point, but hey. Your call. It's not uncommon that WoWs community was far from appealing and, sadly, to this day, it still remains that way. Probably doesn't help that GMs in WoW either don't exist, or outright tell you to /ignore and man up, rather than deal with the problem.

2. Harassment is Harassment. The length and strength of it is irrelevant. (in terms of punishing it, at least) and I'm not claiming that one side of this conversation is "the toxic one". Both sides have shown they have less-than-ideal people in their ranks. Again, go back through this very thread and you'll see. While you may see going after someone for their low-DPS as a justifiable action, on the belief that you only do it to people who claim they "do just fine". It is still using their meters as justification for harassment. So you (in a roundabout way) confirmed the stance XIV takes.

If you feel someone isn't pulling their weight in a duty / raid / roulette / etc, put them on your block list and you'll never group up with them again. You don't need to voice your personal disappointment about how they aren't meeting your personal standards. (If you are consistently wiping trial / raid fights as a result, you may be justified in calling them out, but not using numbers, obviously)

"People should just learn how to do good DPS" or people should just not be antagonistic to each other over otherwise meaningless reasons, like hitting buttons in a vidja gaem

Remember. Games (Final Fantasy is included in this, shocking I know!) are meant to be played for fun. While your fun may be topping meters, others may just want to lean back and relax. So I shall remain with my stance of "Personal dps meters at most, punishing those that abuse it."

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Originally Posted by Kenky

If you feel someone isn't pulling their weight in a duty / raid / roulette / etc, put them on your block list and you'll never group up with them again.

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Correction.

This applies only if you're the PF leader, because anybody in your blacklist won't be able to view your PF. DF contents will still pair you with them. Joining random's PF doesn't prevent them from joining the same PF. You just won't be able to see what they're talking (yes, they can see what you're typing if they don't blacklist you).

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Catboy in that context is pseudo-racial, because the player (me) is not a catboy. No more than you are a blond, baseball cap wearing Ala Mhigan.

Pseudo-sexual slur was in reference to poster's use of the term "fursuit" for a different poster who's avatar is a Hrothgar ... figure it out yourself.

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It'd be real funny if Skiros dropped a pic of himself and he turned out to look just like his avatar.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not that they can't do it, they won't because of the exact reasons people in this thread have listed for wanting it.
They don't want harassment of players due to their DPS, they don't want to encourage kicking players from content or excluding them from PFs because of low DPS numbers.
They could very easily do it but given how toxic the people advocating for it are, especially in the high end scene, they don't want to do it and give them another tool.

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that statement i made was for the statement itself, i can careless if they add a dps meter, it will always be there, I am of the opinion it would help some players in the long run.

Ill just go ahead and repeat what ive said. All this stuff is in the game already, its already a big part of endgame you cant even apply to most casual groups w/o logs ect. pretending that its not there or some epidemic will happen is foolish. FC groups will help fellow FC players with carries reguardless of it being there or not, If you want to venture out on your own you are gana have to produce logs square knows fflogs exist and isnt doing anything about it, they are even holding some of your logs from you unless you become a gold level donator.

I do some of these roulettes and i see dps so poor the healer are spanking em, and i wonder to myself..... does he think hes doing good? is he takeing advantage that no one can say anything?

P1N is prolly the absolute best DPS dummy in the game atm, 100 % uptime can do rotation with minimal mechanics, a dps meter would help them.

you keep these people ignorant, they are gana try something thats actually difficult and get spanked so hard they will never want to try it again.

And again ill say, all this stuff is already in game, and apart of the game and has been for years. hiding your head in the sand and pretending its not there dosnt make it not there =p there are already in the PF adv for parse groups, groups in the PF saying checking logs and so many other things :p

its just like half these groups in savage, guys always like I DONT USE ACT I DONT USE ECT BLAH BLAH BLAH like we will think hes some chad ultra gamer and we didnt even ask bc we dont care, then he dosnt have push to talk on and we hear his cactbot pinging or reading wich mechanic is going off.

half you guys lie to yourselves =p

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Originally Posted by Hoodcat

that statement i made was for the statement itself, i can careless if they add a dps meter, it will always be there, I am of the opinion it would help some players in the long run.

Ill just go ahead and repeat what ive said. All this stuff is in the game already, its already a big part of endgame you cant even apply to most casual groups w/o logs ect. pretending that its not there or some epidemic will happen is foolish. FC groups will help fellow FC players with carries reguardless of it being there or not, If you want to venture out on your own you are gana have to produce logs square knows fflogs exist and isnt doing anything about it, they are even holding some of your logs from you unless you become a gold level donator.

I do some of these roulettes and i see dps so poor the healer are spanking em, and i wonder to myself..... does he think hes doing good? is he takeing advantage that no one can say anything?

P1N is prolly the absolute best DPS dummy in the game atm, 100 % uptime can do rotation with minimal mechanics, a dps meter would help them.

you keep these people ignorant, they are gana try something thats actually difficult and get spanked so hard they will never want to try it again.

And again ill say, all this stuff is already in game, and apart of the game and has been for years. hiding your head in the sand and pretending its not there dosnt make it not there =p there are already in the PF adv for parse groups, groups in the PF saying checking logs and so many other things :p

its just like half these groups in savage, guys always like I DONT USE ACT I DONT USE ECT BLAH BLAH BLAH like we will think hes some chad ultra gamer and we didnt even ask bc we dont care, then he dosnt have push to talk on and we hear his cactbot pinging or reading wich mechanic is going off.

half you guys lie to yourselves =p

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Exactly my point, if people act like this when it's not officially in the game they can't be trusted with official DPS meters.

im confused on what you mean, my behavior or the mega giga chad?

I don't personally care either way as I'm a casual player, but what would adding an official damage meter even change? People who do high-end content already have other ways of monitoring their DPS, so they don't really need it. And if you think casuals seeing how bad they are would encourage them to become better, you're sadly mistaken. If bad casuals were interested in improving, there's nothing stopping them; there are plenty of guides out there to help one become a better player. If they cared, they would have consulted them long ago. Seeing how bad their numbers are won't change anything.

Again, I don't care either way. I'm mostly just confused, because the damage meters are already out there, and whether they're official or not won't change a thing. It seems to me that really what some people want is for casuals to be confronted with their low numbers and then feel bad about them. I'm not going to judge anyone if that's what they want, but if that's the case I wish they would just come out and say it, since I don't really think anyone is under the delusion that "a HEALER's role is to HEAL >:o!!!" Andy over here is magically going to become competent just because the game told him he doesn't know how to press his buttons.

If they dont know they are doing sub par or terrible then they dont know they need to improve.

You guys are assuming they will feel bad seeing these numbers, if i saw these numbers i would wonder what i need to do better, bc i know im better than that. The biggest argument for this i see is "you will make them feel bad"
wich is stupid and your just keeping grown adults ignorant. Might as well have a police state.

Why not get rid of the sprout icon? shows newb, does it make him feel bad hes a newb? No, he dosnt know any better and it advertises to the rest of the party, hey this guys a newb. Gatekeeping knowledge from people is all your doing, there is always going to be a sperg or villian of a story. a jerk is gana be a jerk regardless of what tools they have access too or dont.

Just add a personal damage meter that players can turn on in the UI. You only see your own damage. If you really want, you can export the log to submit to tracking sites so people can have their e-peening and their analysis tools.

But the game does need some supported means for players to gauge their own personal performance. Not that of anyone else. Just them.

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Originally Posted by torrijas

I don't personally care either way as I'm a casual player, but what would adding an official damage meter even change? People who do high-end content already have other ways of monitoring their DPS, so they don't really need it.

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Some streamer got banned for having it. Not harassing anyone with it. Just having it. 5chan is babyraging that Japan didn't get world first in Ultimate, so they're reporting ACT usage on stream like a bunch of self-righteous crusaders, and Square is bending to their war cries because it's *technically* against the TOS. Yoshi has WATCHED streams with ACT overlays up. It wasn't a problem up to this point.

And now the toxic casuals are coming out of the woodwork, crowing that ACT has "always" been against the TOS, that anyone punished for streaming it "deserves" it, and all manner of stupid babble. Taking the previous "we'll have our stat tracking over here, you have your casual no-numbers gameplay over there" silent truce and chucking it out the window, going full mask-off and showing us all what they actually think. It's not the harassment they have a problem with. It's other people using the tool at all that gets their jimmies rustled.

Toxic casuals can't mind their own beeswax, and are weaponizing the TOS. May as well make a parser official then, if they're going to be so goddamn childish about it.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I've seen what happens when this sort of thing is allowed. So I don't agree.

But why, if it would only show your DPS?

Because people will start demanding that you link your DPS to join a group. For veteran players like me "it doesn't matter". for new players who are just starting to learn "no group for you buddy. Play with the other rejects".

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Literally has never happened in WoW in the 16+ years the game has been up.
You can get kicked if your dps is low, but you don't 'link dps to join a group'. There's not even a way to do that, especially if you haven't been in the fight before.
The former is avoided by...well, not being bad at your job.

This would also only apply to savage content. No one cares if you're bad in easy mode content, parser or not.

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Originally Posted by Elesh

Just add a personal damage meter that players can turn on in the UI. You only see your own damage. If you really want, you can export the log to submit to tracking sites so people can have their e-peening and their analysis tools.

But the game does need some supported means for players to gauge their own personal performance. Not that of anyone else. Just them.

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That's incorrect. Comparison is how you learn, something telling you 'you did 2k dps' isn't helpful, most people won't even know offhand if that's good or not.
Just have it not be useable in dungeons/easy content or something. The clear problem people have with it is that they're scared someone is gonna make mean comments to them, like that doesn't already happen, and they don't want to improve. Everything outside of savage/extreme/ultimate is way too easy for anyone to care about their damage there.

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Originally Posted by Elesh

Just add a personal damage meter that players can turn on in the UI. You only see your own damage. If you really want, you can export the log to submit to tracking sites so people can have their e-peening and their analysis tools.

But the game does need some supported means for players to gauge their own personal performance. Not that of anyone else. Just them.

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That's the whole reason you need other data to compare. You don't know your 4k dps is bad unless you know people in the same job, with similar gear, are doing 8k.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You can get kicked if your dps is low, but you don't 'link dps to join a group'. There's not even a way to do that, especially if you haven't been in the fight before.
The former is avoided by...well, not being bad at your job.

This would also only apply to savage content. No one cares if you're bad in easy mode content, parser or not.

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Yeah most people do not care as long as things die as a reasonable pace, and you are doing mechanics.
On 14, JP chooses the nuclear option and just disbands the entire party if one person is slacking. I don't know about EU, but NA PF is accommodating to a fault.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Yeah most people do not care as long as things die as a reasonable pace, and you are doing mechanics.
On 14, JP chooses the nuclear option and just disbands the entire party if one person is slacking. I don't know about EU, but NA PF is accommodating to a fault.

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I agree with you. A parser would definitely fix the need for a nuclear option too. Sucks for the person slacking sure, but maybe they shouldn't be in tough content if their dps is low to the point a clear wasn't possible in the first place?

Hate how people just don't seem to understand that this game has dps checks and if they can't meet those dps checks then they don't deserve to be carried. They can improve just like everyone else.

thats one of the bigger points, i used 46k dps requirement for a fight currently in game. if the group is doing 42k to 38k are you going to waste 6 more hours of your life just to be nice? or are you going to be like, hey..... where can we pick up the extra dps?

you can still be nice and tell someone, they aint ready.

would it be possible to have some version of the pvp postgame scoreboard for pve
listing dps, amount healed, damage taken, deaths etc; would be helpful after each encounter for people who are learning

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Originally Posted by Hoodcat

you can still be nice and tell someone, they aint ready.

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Nah, it's nicer to just kick silently and let them ruminate over what they've done.

/s

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

What's more concerning is your flippant use of pseudo-racial, pseudo-sexual slurs when dismissing players with whom you disagree.

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https://i.imgur.com/Mnnlr33.gif

I'll never quite understand the train of thought that by adding in a parser, SE would somehow automatically be removing their exceptionally hard stance towards abusive behaviour of any sort in chat.

SE could readily add an ingame feature with a very specific warning not to abuse it and use it as means to attack other players with a clear line in the sand given by GMs as to what is and isn't acceptable. Sure, you might see the occasional person being toxic with it at first but then if they promptly eat a ban for it, aren't we all winning in the long term? If swinging around numbers is treated in the same manner as it is right now, it's certainly not going to get worse.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'll never quite understand the train of thought that by adding in a parser, SE would somehow automatically be removing their exceptionally hard stance towards abusive behaviour of any sort in chat.

SE could readily add an ingame feature with a very specific warning not to abuse it and use it as means to attack other players with a clear line in the sand given by GMs as to what is and isn't acceptable. Sure, you might see the occasional person being toxic with it at first but then if they promptly eat a ban for it, aren't we all winning in the long term? If swinging around numbers is treated in the same manner as it is right now, it's certainly not going to get worse.

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Exactly. It's like what they did with the Adventure plates. They already had language in the TOS that covered people making extra-lewd plates. A damage parser would literally be no different.

If a parser was added that only that player could see their own DPS and no one elses would be fine to me.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Nah, it's nicer to just kick silently and let them ruminate over what they've done.

/s

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I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I want to believe some people try, but they just don't know how bad their performance is. I've been in so many groups over the years that disbands (then secretly reforms) to silently cut someone out. That is way, way more toxic imho.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'll never quite understand the train of thought that by adding in a parser, SE would somehow automatically be removing their exceptionally hard stance towards abusive behaviour of any sort in chat.

SE could readily add an ingame feature with a very specific warning not to abuse it and use it as means to attack other players with a clear line in the sand given by GMs as to what is and isn't acceptable. Sure, you might see the occasional person being toxic with it at first but then if they promptly eat a ban for it, aren't we all winning in the long term? If swinging around numbers is treated in the same manner as it is right now, it's certainly not going to get worse.

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But Sebazy it's haaaaaaaaaaaard. If we don't keep the BadEvil stat trackers out then people might feeeeeeeeeeeeel more "pressured" to improve. And no harassment is worse or less punishable than harassment you make up from an invisible voice in your own head.

*psst* *whisper whisper* that voice of shame and judgement in your own head is often a good thing and you should probably follow its advice more often, dear reader *whisper whisper*

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

*psst* *whisper whisper* that voice of shame and judgement in your own head is often a good thing and you should probably follow its advice more often, dear reader *whisper whisper*

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That voice keeps me from eating my coconut vanilla soap every morning.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Nah, it's nicer to just kick silently and let them ruminate over what they've done.

/s

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https://64.media.tumblr.com/55925a19...htmbe_400.gifv

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

That's the whole reason you need other data to compare. You don't know your 4k dps is bad unless you know people in the same job, with similar gear, are doing 8k.

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I mean, that's why aggregating sites and analysis tools are needed. Yes. But that shouldn't be visible in game. In game you only need to see your own personal numbers. So you can compare against yourself to see if you're improving, etc.

Out of game, I have no issues with data aggregation or analysis sites.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I want to believe some people try, but they just don't know how bad their performance is. I've been in so many groups over the years that disbands (then secretly reforms) to silently cut someone out. That is way, way more toxic imho.

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Believe me, that would be my first course of action too.

I like to see people try, learn, grow, and improve. If I could, I want to encourage them too. I want to guide when I can. It was one of my foolishly idealistic goal when I first took upon the meme that is mentor status. I mean, it couldn't be any worse than simple headbutts a few times, right? Except it actually gets far worse than that and above all, it left a bad taste. It's not what I paid the subs for; dealing with passive aggressions. Without hard evidence it's harder to pin down where things actually gone wrong to craft a solution & it's easy to be refuted by plain denial without basis.

In the end, avoiding confrontation is still the safest bet than to risk the loss of sanity if it really comes down to that.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Catboy in that context is pseudo-racial, because the player (me) is not a catboy. No more than you are a blond, baseball cap wearing Ala Mhigan.

Pseudo-sexual slur was in reference to poster's use of the term "fursuit" for a different poster who's avatar is a Hrothgar ... figure it out yourself.

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Can we use these terms for when actual psuedo-racial and pseudo-sexual slurs are used against real races? Using them because they called you a catboy and the Hrothgar a fursuit devalues those terms for when used against PoC, thanks. :)