[Critical] Male Viera height slider; tall option. Show your support.

Considering they’re rabbit people, it only makes sense for the boys to be smaller than the girls.

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Originally Posted by Conando

Considering they’re rabbit people, it only makes sense for the boys to be smaller than the girls.

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The problem with that argument is precedence, as well as the fact that they're being added at different times so female Viera cannot be made taller now since they're in live servers. Male Viera being the same height or shorter than female Viera would put them on the short side of the male height chart, very close to being a miqo'te with rabbit ears. If creating a race's height based on the animal ears they have then female Viera should have been very short (shorter than female Miqo'te). I don't think height should be determined by the animal parts they have; and it's very incosistent in the FF universe. Again, female Viera would've been more like what you see in Blue Protocol.

This should've been what Viera should've been if we were so gung-ho about basing it on real life rabbit physique
This would be the correct situation if we adhere to that mandate
https://i.imgur.com/2RWIBll.jpg

If that’s Blue Protocol down there, that’s really not realistic to rabbit “physique”. Females are larger and bulkier, even as a small animal they are not petite.

That's even worse, you want fat and short female Viera? Also, I don't get what you mean about rabbits not being petite? I would never describe rabbits as being anything but petite.

This is why we have beast and humans with animal appendages races. That whole thing about swirling an animal and a human physical traits is never a good situation. Hrothgar, where it's basically an animal on 2 feet is where such things work better.

Too lazy to quote multiple people, blame my just waking up for work in a few hours.

Reason why people are bringing up lore and height, every lore reference we've ever had regarding Viera and Males, always describes them as solitary, small, feral like nature, aggressive.

Many sites exist, that compile all the lore there is for races throughout history. https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/po...7699/the-viera being one of them, and a nice reference for making characters for roleplay as well. This is why people bring up lore and height. They also tend to bring up lore, since if lore didn't matter in game, why are things required now for MSQ in Shadowbringers just because of lore?

Not my reasoning, but a valid one for people to bring up. I used to think male viera would be silly to add. Now, honestly, let them do whatever, any size etc. They gave up on race lore a while ago I feel since too hard to incorporate due to community backlash of wanting to be what they want to be.

In the wild, female rabbits tend to be larger in general than their male counterparts. Even nature supports short viera males. :3

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Too lazy to quote multiple people, blame my just waking up for work in a few hours.

Reason why people are bringing up lore and height, every lore reference we've ever had regarding Viera and Males, always describes them as solitary, small, feral like nature, aggressive.

Many sites exist, that compile all the lore there is for races throughout history. https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/po...7699/the-viera being one of them, and a nice reference for making characters for roleplay as well. This is why people bring up lore and height. They also tend to bring up lore, since if lore didn't matter in game, why are things required now for MSQ in Shadowbringers just because of lore?

Not my reasoning, but a valid one for people to bring up. I used to think male viera would be silly to add. Now, honestly, let them do whatever, any size etc. They gave up on race lore a while ago I feel since too hard to incorporate due to community backlash of wanting to be what they want to be.

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No lore given in 14 has ever described them as small. That’s a fact. As for people comparing real life bunnies and nature. That’s in our world, not 14’s. Two completely different things. Afaik they haven’t used real life modes of animals for races so i don’t see why they’d start now. It seems like people are trying to find every scrap they can to try and make short male viera a reality. Yoshi p himself has stated the opposite.

I don't recall that Yoshi P stated their height at all.

So just gonna share my thoughts but I'd like to see male viera to be shorter then females on average. My thinking is give them a height similar to female highlander or give them a height that is between midlander and highlander. At max height they are close to the females mid range. This way then end up being taller then miqo'tes and midlander but aren't really a tall race just on the high end of average.

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Originally Posted by AvenoMatt

So just gonna share my thoughts but I'd like to see male viera to be shorter then females on average. My thinking is give them a height similar to female highlander or give them a height that is between midlander and highlander. At max height they are close to the females mid range. This way then end up being taller then miqo'tes and midlander but aren't really a tall race just on the high end of average.

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Wouldn't that just make them a slightly taller miqo'te or a midlander with rabbit ears?
The tall side has nothing remotely human outside of Elezen, and we know how even Elezen have these really unnatural heads, shoulders, lanky arms, and same-face issues.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Reason why people are bringing up lore and height, every lore reference we've ever had regarding Viera and Males, always describes them as solitary, small, feral like nature, aggressive.

Many sites exist, that compile all the lore there is for races throughout history. https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/po...7699/the-viera being one of them, and a nice reference for making characters for roleplay as well. This is why people bring up lore and height. They also tend to bring up lore, since if lore didn't matter in game, why are things required now for MSQ in Shadowbringers just because of lore?

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Your link contradicts your own description in the previous paragraph. All it says is that they are solitary; the "feral and aggressive" seems extrapolated from them living alone in the wood and tasked with the job of shooting intruders on sight, which says nothing about what they'd be like if you met one on good terms. And as far as I can see, it doesn't mention their height at all beyond comparing the race in general to Hyur and Elezen.

This. This is all that I ask for.
Not a microscopic man bun, just a man bun that stands a few ilms shorter than la femme buns.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Your link contradicts your own description in the previous paragraph. All it says is that they are solitary; the "feral and aggressive" seems extrapolated from them living alone in the wood and tasked with the job of shooting intruders on sight, which says nothing about what they'd be like if you met one on good terms. And as far as I can see, it doesn't mention their height at all beyond comparing the race in general to Hyur and Elezen.

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It was just listed as an example. There's dozens of links I could post, but like I said, I don't care about their height. Doesn't help any links you find now, have been edited within the past few days, articles removed like physiology etc, as they wait for males release to update it then. Am all for any size male viera. But some are really strict on their lore as it was, not after retcon.

Heck, I can't even search Male Viera anymore now, after Fanfest. At page 32, and still updated 6 days ago. Either way. Let them be whatever, lore doesn't matter if it existed at all before.

Edit:
Seems to have come from FFXII, when reach Eruyt Village, minor convo about the Viera, and the booklet that came with the game. If anyone still has that booklet, could clear things up for sure.

Wouldn't the easier solution be to give them the same height slider as the female range? Let people pick

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

It was just listed as an example. There's dozens of links I could post, but like I said, I don't care about their height.

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I don't particularly care about their height either, but I do care about someone saying "all lore points to X" while linking a comprehensive lore post that makes no mention of X.

If there are dozens of links you can post, post them - or at least one that backs up your claim. If the links have all been edited to remove inaccurate information, then they can't have been reliable canon to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Wouldn't that just make them a slightly taller miqo'te or a midlander with rabbit ears?
The tall side has nothing remotely human outside of Elezen, and we know how even Elezen have these really unnatural heads, shoulders, lanky arms, and same-face issues.

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I thi k the difference in height would make then stand out enough from miqo'tes but honestly I think they'll be around the same height or taller then female. I mean then appearances makes then look tallish.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Wouldn't the easier solution be to give them the same height slider as the female range? Let people pick

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This. It would be also make them unique in that they would be the only race to have the same average height range between males and females.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Wouldn't the easier solution be to give them the same height slider as the female range? Let people pick

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I actually wouldn't be surprised if they had the same exact height range as the females.

In regards to the height, I think the suggestion of the men being shorter than the women could be accomplished by making female Hrothgar taller than their male counterparts.

Personally I think it'd be fine if male Viera were of equal or greater height to their female counterparts. After all, it's been a very common request over the years for an alternative option that is tall, classically handsome and conventionally attractive to be added for those of us who like to play as male characters.

I don't think it'd make much sense for both of what are likely to be the last races altogether or for quite some time to subscribe to niche aesthetics.

Though based on the investigations done in regards to their height with what we have so far, it seems like they're on the taller side of things. So I'm happy, personally - they're not as slim, feminine or androgynous as some of the suggestions were pushing for over the years.

They have a nice amount of muscle to them, so they're toned and athletic rather than skinny - and the proportions are an improved version of the Elezen model which is also what a lot of players were pushing for.

Female hrothgar on the same level as male roes in height. A nice contrast to au ras. Plus since Hrothgars are a matriarchy race that seem a little savage it would make sense that the reason why females are on top isn't just because they are rare but because they stronger. Think hyenas, females are the dominant ones because they are bigger and more aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

In regards to the height, I think the suggestion of the men being shorter than the women could be accomplished by making female Hrothgar taller than their male counterparts.

Personally I think it'd be fine if male Viera were of equal or greater height to their female counterparts. After all, it's been a very common request over the years for an alternative option that is tall, classically handsome and conventionally attractive to be added for those of us who like to play as male characters.

I don't think it'd make much sense for both of what are likely to be the last races altogether or for quite some time to subscribe to niche aesthetics.

Though based on the investigations done in regards to their height with what we have so far, it seems like they're on the taller side of things. So I'm happy, personally - they're not as slim, feminine or androgynous as some of the suggestions were pushing for over the years.

They have a nice amount of muscle to them, so they're toned and athletic rather than skinny - and the proportions are an improved version of the Elezen model which is also what a lot of players were pushing for.

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Female hrothgar could actually look taller than males too, if they aren't hunched. Like, even if they were the same height or slightly shorter than males, and I don't see any reason for SE to make the females hunched.

My only gripe with male viera now is that I wished they looked just a little older, like 5+ years or so, and I would have liked to see some options like stubble in their trailer. Maybe when the benchmark comes out. Perhaps they will have that more mature face option, one that wasn't revealed in the trailer. As it really looks like they only showed 3 face options.

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Originally Posted by Sophie_Lo

I don't recall that Yoshi P stated their height at all.

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He equated their appearance to Male Elezen and said he would want to stay away from a miqote-like appearance.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

That's even worse, you want fat and short female Viera? Also, I don't get what you mean about rabbits not being petite? I would never describe rabbits as being anything but petite.

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Rabbits are muscular little animals, especially the does.

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Originally Posted by AvenoMatt

Female hrothgar on the same level as male roes in height. A nice contrast to au ras. Plus since Hrothgars are a matriarchy race that seem a little savage it would make sense that the reason why females are on top isn't just because they are rare but because they stronger. Think hyenas, females are the dominant ones because they are bigger and more aggressive.

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Cat, and Lions dont quite work that way but I do see where your coming from.
Plus the Females are refered to as 'Their Queens" Hmm, Im not against it, plus its another step towards my big, strong and tall dream for them. :3

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Originally Posted by Destati

This. It would be also make them unique in that they would be the only race to have the same average height range between males and females.

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uhmmm no, they won't be unique: Lalafells already have same height range, so there's technically a precedence. :)

That said, there is a possibilty that that's what we'll see in benchmark. They don't seem to be bigger than females in trailer (or not a lot bigger, at least).

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Though based on the investigations done in regards to their height with what we have so far, it seems like they're on the taller side of things. So I'm happy, personally - they're not as slim, feminine or androgynous as some of the suggestions were pushing for over the years.

They have a nice amount of muscle to them, so they're toned and athletic rather than skinny - and the proportions are an improved version of the Elezen model which is also what a lot of players were pushing for.

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Agreed! They look phenomenal. The team did a great job.

Apparently, Matsuno is also very happy with how the male Viera turned out.

According to a comment in Mr. Happy's video, Matsuno stated on his Twitter that the males are different than what he had in mind, but he loves what the devs did with them and plans on using a fantasia to play as one.

I couldn't find Matsuno's twitter to confirm though.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

My only gripe with male viera now is that I wished they looked just a little older, like 5+ years or so, and I would have liked to see some options like stubble in their trailer. Maybe when the benchmark comes out. Perhaps they will have that more mature face option, one that wasn't revealed in the trailer. As it really looks like they only showed 3 face options.

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I remember reading in the lore somewhere that Viera retain their youthful appearance even in old age. They don't age like the other races.

I think it's safe to say the devs kept that in mind as they designed their faces.

But I don't see why there can't be a mature option. Mature doesn't have to mean old. Male Miqo'te have a mature option too and it still looks young. Maybe that's how the mature face option will look like.

The female Viera trailer only showcased two of the face options, if I remember right. So it's likely that it's the same case with the male trailer.

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Originally Posted by Hunky

I remember reading in the lore somewhere that Viera retain their youthful appearance even in old age. They don't age like the other races.

I think it's safe to say the devs kept that in mind as they designed their faces.

But I don't see why there can't be a mature option. Mature doesn't have to mean old. Male Miqo'te have a mature option too and it still looks young. Maybe that's how the mature face option will look like.

The female Viera trailer only showcased two of the face options, if I remember right. So it's likely that it's the same case with the male trailer.

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I believe the Dramaturge says it, Viera easily live three times as long as Elezen and retain physical youth for centuries.

Female Viera has decent (but not great, like most races) variety in their faces with 3 being the "young Elezen face" they talked about and I'd say 4 being the most mature, the other two faces fall somewhere in between.

They mostly featured face 1 in the female Viera trailer, I thought I saw a face 2 in there as well but someone else said it was only face 1 with different hair/lips/noses/brows/colours and I can see that being the case as well.

If they only showed variations of face 1 for male Viera as well there's three more they haven't shown, so there should be some variety.

while i think the males are really handsome, i also hope they give some options to make them look a little more feral/rough. they are the protectors of the forest after all and live a mostly harsh live, maybe cool/unqiue scars or tribal face tattoos.
i personally will probably go for a more tradtional look for my bunboy, kind of a fran look or the first m. viera shown in the trailer!

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

while i think the males are really handsome, i also hope they give some options to make them look a little more feral/rough. they are the protectors of the forest after all and live a mostly harsh live, maybe cool/unqiue scars or tribal face tattoos.
i personally will probably go for a more tradtional look for my bunboy, kind of a fran look or the first m. viera shown in the trailer!

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We saw 3 faces max in the trailer so we will get at least 1 more. The trailer shows 2 young faces and 1 that looks a little bit older, si i don't see why they wouldnt make another "old" or "rough" option.
Si far we got anime protagonist/sweet boy/"hey babe" dude

I hope for scars too! I don't think female viera have it tho and both genders have often very similar options ><

The white hairded male is my favorite too and i'll try this one first haha.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

while i think the males are really handsome, i also hope they give some options to make them look a little more feral/rough. they are the protectors of the forest after all and live a mostly harsh live, maybe cool/unqiue scars or tribal face tattoos.
i personally will probably go for a more tradtional look for my bunboy, kind of a fran look or the first m. viera shown in the trailer!

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I kinda want scars in general and maybe like a lost eye or something.
If I could make Baiken from Guilty Gear for my Samurai then I would. https://images.alphacoders.com/483/thumb-1920-48351.jpg

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't particularly care about their height either, but I do care about someone saying "all lore points to X" while linking a comprehensive lore post that makes no mention of X.

If there are dozens of links you can post, post them - or at least one that backs up your claim. If the links have all been edited to remove inaccurate information, then they can't have been reliable canon to begin with.

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I actually can't! I went back to check the links this morning. 404, page no longer exists, and the rest fanfic. I am greatly mistaken and apologize!

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

It was just listed as an example. There's dozens of links I could post, but like I said, I don't care about their height. Doesn't help any links you find now, have been edited within the past few days, articles removed like physiology etc, as they wait for males release to update it then. Am all for any size male viera. But some are really strict on their lore as it was, not after retcon.

Heck, I can't even search Male Viera anymore now, after Fanfest. At page 32, and still updated 6 days ago. Either way. Let them be whatever, lore doesn't matter if it existed at all before.

Edit:
Seems to have come from FFXII, when reach Eruyt Village, minor convo about the Viera, and the booklet that came with the game. If anyone still has that booklet, could clear things up for sure.

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If the quote calling them small comes from ff12, then that means absolutely nothing. 12 and 14 are two completely different universes with completely different lore, they’ve established this multiples times especially with the Ivalice questline.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

If the quote calling them small comes from ff12, then that means absolutely nothing. 12 and 14 are two completely different universes with completely different lore, they’ve established this multiples times especially with the Ivalice questline.

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Um, I thought it was the opposite?
https://bleedingcool.com/games/video...rrent-stories/

Or am I reading that wrong? Literally connects to the Zodiac Brave story.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Um, I thought it was the opposite?
https://bleedingcool.com/games/video...rrent-stories/

Or am I reading that wrong? Literally connects to the Zodiac Brave story.

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You could see the zodiac brave story in XIV as a very similar event that happened in 2 totally different universes, ffXII and tactics A and A2 happen in Ivalice which is a completely different world than Hydaelyn.
Even so, I don't think there's any information about how male viera look in any ivalice game, If anything ffXIV got the little existing lore on them and expanded it, you can find this lore in game by talking to the Wandering Dramaturge in the Prima Vista.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

I actually can't! I went back to check the links this morning. 404, page no longer exists, and the rest fanfic. I am greatly mistaken and apologize!

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About this, It's kinda brave for someone to admit a mistake in these forums, you have my full respect! And it's definitely not your fault, I don't know if there's someone purposely spreading false lore, or if somehow people started mixing fanfic with official lore, but there's a lot of people that believes in some strange lore that has nothing to do with the official lore in game.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Um, I thought it was the opposite?
https://bleedingcool.com/games/video...rrent-stories/

Or am I reading that wrong? Literally connects to the Zodiac Brave story.

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A word of advice lorewise(this isn’t meant to be snarky). Never ever use any sort of blog or even wiki’s for lore. They’re either very wrong, biased, or both. Just flipped through that link and them saying “ff14 ivalice raid has garamsythe waterway and goug so they absolutely must be connected” hurt my brain.

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Originally Posted by Renik

You could see the zodiac brave story in XIV as a very similar event that happened in 2 totally different universes, ffXII and tactics A and A2 happen in Ivalice which is a completely different world than Hydaelyn.
Even so, I don't think there's any information about how male viera look in any ivalice game, If anything ffXIV got the little existing lore on them and expanded it, you can find this lore in game by talking to the Wandering Dramaturge in the Prima Vista.



About this, It's kinda brave for someone to admit a mistake in these forums, you have my full respect! And it's definitely not your fault, I don't know if there's someone purposely spreading false lore, or if somehow people started mixing fanfic with official lore, but there's a lot of people that believes in some strange lore that has nothing to do with the official lore in game.

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Well, if you can't admit your own mistakes, can't really move forwards and improve. I've no problem admitting I done screwed the pooch there.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

A word of advice lorewise(this isn’t meant to be snarky). Never ever use any sort of blog or even wiki’s for lore. They’re either very wrong, biased, or both. Just flipped through that link and them saying “ff14 ivalice raid has garamsythe waterway and goug so they absolutely must be connected” hurt my brain.

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Very true, I need to find better sources for sure.

Added male Viera to the male races chart. This would be my preference; female Roegadyn is there for reference, as far as the range their height slider has.
https://i.postimg.cc/7hTzRRCF/malevierachart-Final.png

Also, I find it really interesting that Matsuno would have had a different take on Male Viera. I know he no longer works full time for Square enix but he would be the one I would first go to if I was them. Now I have to wonder, how would have Matsuno's male Viera looked like, specially in terms of height and even physique. My guess is that he would go for the more elf/rough/rugged look.

Something more like this where the male looks rough because of their lifestyle
https://i.imgur.com/5r63BWQ.png

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Also, I find it really interesting that Matsuno would have had a different take on Male Viera. I know he no longer works full time for Square enix but he would be the one I would first go to if I was them. Now I have to wonder, how would have Matsuno's male Viera looked like, specially in terms of height and even physique. My guess is that he would go for the more elf/rough/rugged look.

Something more like this where the male looks rough because of their lifestyle
https://i.imgur.com/5r63BWQ.png

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I'm guessing they did go to him for some details. They seemed to value his input in the past in regards to viera and FF XIV. I don't think the art you posted above was bad by any means as far as a concept goes, but what they went with feels more fitting, given the way that female viera is designed. In my opinion they absolutely nailed it. I saw way more people asking for what we got, though I will admit small part of me expected them to be Au Ra-esque.

Yeah no that height range is almost as ridiculous as the au ra height discrepancy between m/f.
A full foot of height difference between the tallest male and tallest female? that is a MASSIVE no thank you from me, unless the females have their height ranges expanded too.
And once again adding yet another super tall male race (whose ears would cast shadows on the tallest roegadyn in your picture!!) pushes the selection of male racial choices to the gotta-be-tall options, where the shorter than hyur options are severely lacking.

And by your comments again, I am convinced you would be much happier pushing for improvements to Au Ra customizations than you would be by pushing for a race you don't think is big and rugged enough for you

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

but what they went with feels more fitting, given the way that female viera is designed. In my opinion they absolutely nailed it. I saw way more people asking for what we got

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Agreeing with this. I love the design of the male viera we got. I never wanted them to be rough or rugged personally, but I would not mind having a face option like that for players that want it.