Had to look at prudent and delicate as I dont use them. As for prep I kind take back what I said forgot about the 20 durability cost that comes with it. I am going to guess that there are rotations that abuse the hell out of Prudent and Delicate?Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
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10-25-2019, 04:50 PMNanaWiloh
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10-25-2019, 05:05 PMCookiesNCreamsOh definitely, lol. Just about everyone is using endgame rotations that use delicate synthesis. (And reuse, but that’s not really an issue.) In 4.0, prudent touch was a major problem. It basically guarantees you an HQ’d endgame craft...every touch action would never miss. 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaWiloh
Come 5.0, they add something even more broken and destructive, delicate synthesis. Thanks to this move, nobody uses prudent touch anymore as it’s now obsolete. If delicate synthesis is gone and prudent touch stays....people will just use Prudent Touch again. BOTH moves need to be removed or heavily nerfed.
I have a good feeling they will though. After all, this thread raised a lot of awareness, and I’m sure square Enix has read it by now. :) -
10-25-2019, 05:51 PMNanaWiloh
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...edium=head_no1
info is near the bottom ?? WTF is up with muscle memory!! Rofl holy crap.. -
10-25-2019, 05:53 PMCookiesNCreams- Prudent Touch got buffed to 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaWiloh
- They did not even touch delicate synthesis
- Specialist actions are gone, essentially making specialist useless
Something tells me this sub forum is going to see a lot of riots soon, and it’s not going to be from me lol -
10-25-2019, 05:57 PMNanaWilohI like the change for stealth now known as sneak. Thank god for that one, so hate walking like a damn snail. Ya I am noticing that but I am still holding judgement until the patch. Need to see how the stuff that was removed effects things.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
Read through it a little more the buffs make seem like the incoming crafts are going to have higher progress an quality on them. If thats the case then crafting those items to hq with the changes will be a challenge, of course wont know until the patch hits and people give it a try. -
10-25-2019, 06:40 PMtestname
I can't believe my eyes I read how many skills were removed and how many new are just now 100% success ....
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10-25-2019, 07:02 PMCookiesNCreamsI’m disappointed. I know Square Enix has seen this thread, yet, they still choose to go this route of non existent difficulty. We should still wait and see how the endgame recipes are going to be to fully HQ, but I’m not hopeful about it. Especially after seeing those horrific buffs.....not nerfs, buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by testname
This is absolutely unacceptable, and unnecessary. I’m appalled at FFXIV’s crafting team.
Crafting rotations now require 0% thought....and no skill is required at all during the rotation process. You can just enable inner quiet and just spam prudent touch or delicate synthesis now, literally. They are treating this like a regular everyday Paladin rotation. This is such a foolish decision on their part, and they clearly hold a bias towards casual players. -
10-25-2019, 07:23 PMNanaWilohLets just wait and see what progress and quality levels are for new crafts. With specialist gone if the levels are high enough hitting HQ will be a challenge since you cant cheese cp through specialist now. I watched a few videos of different 2 star 80 rotations there is not a lot of wiggle room when it comes to cp. Looking at prep touch I will need food and a pot to make my rotation for normal 80 crafts work until I meld some more cp.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
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10-25-2019, 07:24 PMQuenadarious
They ripped out the "heart" of crafting. They took the special out of specialist. Great strides is no longer great. Skills no longer fail, so it no longer requires skill. All crafts are equal now. Nothing is unique. Nothing cross classes anymore. If you need it, you get it with one job. Skills that everyone used all the time they removed and integrated into others. Skills very few used were removed. Overall its about a 20% reduction in steps needed to craft an item. It is now more macro friendly than ever before and we lost 40 skills in total. At this point I am just waiting for them to implement two buttons. "CRAFT HQ" & "CRAFT NQ" and just put control and craftsmanship requirements on pushing the buttons because that's essentially how casual crafting has just become. A piece of me died today.
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10-25-2019, 07:34 PMtestname
just mehhh :/
people already used Guides instead to learn how to craft, and copied macros from fast guide to make item
and it won't change coz we have still more skills than just ONE - make
I don't see crafting to be more accessible for people who copy paste macros for every level and skill required
dumbing down crafting for those people makes no sense -
10-25-2019, 07:43 PMKageTokage
Unless they seriously nerfed how much quality/progress scale with control/craftsmanship I'm having doubts that crafting is going to be harder then it was before in any capacity.
They didn't even touch Delicate Synthesis and we now have more CP to work with due to Steady Hand no longer being a thing and most skills having 100% success.
The only thing that did get indirectly nerfed is Reuse fishing likely no longer being practical due to Reclaim getting the axe. -
10-25-2019, 07:47 PMNanaWilohThey removed stroke of genius in return so catch 22..Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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10-25-2019, 08:05 PMCookiesNCreams
Honestly, when does the dumbing down of mechanics stop? Eventually it’ll reach a point where there’s a “HQ Craft” button built into the game...and it sucks that I’m not even being sarcastic. It could legit happen at this point.
They absolutely ruined one of the only things that made FFXIV so unique. Really sad direction this game is going in. -
10-25-2019, 08:07 PMQuenadariousQuote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
Yeah, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quenadarious
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10-25-2019, 08:10 PMFirstnameLastname
... there are "hardcore crafters"? What?
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10-25-2019, 08:21 PMCookiesNCreamsI think I spotted a troll, coincidentally pops up right after the patch notes lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname
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10-25-2019, 08:25 PMKageTokageI'd classify that as anyone who bothers to fully meld their gear and spends a significant part of their daily routine crafting stuff manually (That is, without using bots to AFK their way through it) to sell on the MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname
They're lamentably becoming a rarer sight as time goes on. -
10-25-2019, 08:55 PMForteNightshade
I will say, the buff to 100% on some abilities isn't that big a deal since you'll never touch most of them without Steady Hand active away. Others though... it just feels like even more child's play.
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10-25-2019, 09:08 PMFirstnameLastnameSoo disagreement with you / curiosity in that regard equals being a troll? Dang man, you really baited me into typing this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
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10-25-2019, 11:08 PMLiam_Harper
Well, I'll wait and see until the patch launches incase I missed some small detail, like Great Strides changes affecting things a lot or an increase to required progress/quality ...but jeez it doesn't look good so far.
I don't see why they talked about reducing macro reliance when it couldn't be a macro-friendlier format. Low step 100% rotations with all the old problem abilities still untouched. I wonder if we'll see the first 1 button 1-100% endgame gear macros. Reflect on non-specialist. That Muscle Memory. Name of the Elements of all things mega-nerfed.
At least Reuse is now just a bonus like it should be and Trained Instinct is actually useful. I won't complain about no-fail Quick Synth either.
We'll see anyway.
There are, yes. Some of us rather enjoy it. It was the main reason I moved to this game myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname
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10-26-2019, 01:19 AMDrWho2010
well cookies and liam might like this tidbit from dengeki:
[Ishgard restoration Dengeki questions]
Q. What is the ranking system for the restoration going to be like?
Y: The ranking will start in 5.2 and it announces who the top contribuers are and just like how the deep dungeon ranking system has "dot pictures for each job", the artits drew the gatherers and crafters with dots. There are also ranking rewards, so i'd like those who are proud to be crafters and gatherers to aim for the top.
Q. You said the Ishgard restoration begins in patch 5.11, but is the crafter and gatherer rework in 5.1?
Y: The rework is split into 2. One will be in patch 5.1 and the other will be in patch 5.2. 5.1 will introduce some UI improvements but some of the features will only work after 5.2. Most of the current actions are no longer usable and crossed out, so it has quite an impact. The actions with tier 2~3 will be merged and Biergot's action will have an 100% success rate.
Q. From what i've heard so far, it seems like the "high end recipes" won't be craftable with macros
Y: The normal recipes will be craftable if you set them up properly, but the difficult recipes will require you to use the actions with procs properly when they show up and we'd like to design it where you have to actually observe the current situation.
Q. The current crafting system allows you to ignore HQ mats and use macros to craft HQ items.
Y: I thought that part was broken, so DoL/DoH will have overall adjustments. It will change entirely and new crafters and gatherers can instantly understand what to do and what does what. -
10-26-2019, 01:53 AMKabooa
So, I'm looking at this and need to weigh in.
The action adjustments effectively get rid of a step.
You -always- use Steady Hand. You always use it if the action isn't 100% success rate. That's a period, end of story. The removal of Steady Hand and the increase of most Touch and Synthesis actions to 100% is a lateral change. It doesn't affect much, and some outliers received CP cost increases.
The big nerf to take into account is Great Strides - An additive 100% increase is a -significant nerf-. Instead of doubling up all your previous effects, you see a significant decrease the further along you are.
If you open a craft now and do a Great Strides Byregot, you can expect the final result to be lower by about 25-33% come patch day. This doesn't mean much now, but if there are exorbitant quality requirements moving forward, then hitting HQ is a matter of attrition or utilizing HQ materials.
Ingenuity is another...nerf? It depends on what the increase of efficiency is compared to the increase prior to decreasing recipe level. At best it's a lateral shift, at worse it is still a significant nerf.
Stroke of Genius is now a specialist only increase (Specialization Stones give +15 cp).
Giving Specialists an effective free stalling ability gives them a pretty significant edge.
Whether or not these are good shifts depends how they change their recipe scaling. A lot of unneeded junk got cleared out, a lot of stalling and recovery capability got removed. Delicate Synthesis was potentially nerfed indirectly with the nerf to Ingenuity, and the improvement of all synthesis and touch success rates. -
10-26-2019, 03:22 AMNanaWiloh
Now now not all trolls are bad. There are trolls like me who troll to break the tension in a thread. :) But crafting is my end game so no trolling from me.
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10-26-2019, 03:28 AMCookiesNCreamslol Well, it’s pretty obvious who is just here to troll and who’s here for an actual conversation. :P Anyways, I really hope endgame recipes are actually challenging somehow. If they aren’t, I really don’t know what to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaWiloh
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10-26-2019, 03:37 AMCookiesNCreamsIf delicate synthesis is at least nerfed, that’s good enough for me I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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10-26-2019, 03:50 AMXenabelleSWhat "skill" has there ever been in crafting? As long as there have been macros and rotations and requirements, there was never much "skill" beyond "have enough CP and follow this rotation". You could argue that skill only came in when you didn't have enough CP to macro and so you needed to figure out the functional parts of the macros to be able to do with less. That's how I've always had to play. Until this xpac I never had the CP to macro anything so I've always taught myself the rotations. I'm close to hitting 80 finally but now this patch will change everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
I think the net impact of removing RNG and increasing success rates is that every craft is going to have a solveable combination of abilities with a certain CP cost that one needs to meet. Unless the RNG moves to a "you need to gain the CP with Tricks/push quality based on condition" to the point where HQ or not depends on procs, I don't know if that's "better".
But it's just there never has been much "skill" in getting geared enough and using macros. -
10-26-2019, 04:10 AMCookiesNCreamsI’m not arguing against your point though lol I agree there was no skill in crafting, that’s what I’m trying to say. But reading that Dengeki interview that DrWho posted, if endgame crafts require skills to proc....that is awesome. That, plus control requirements being higher, is awesome. It means you need to actually understand crafting to craft endgame.Quote:
Originally Posted by XenabelleS
I take back what I said lol, this is actually a really good thing. Thanks, Square-Enix :D -
10-26-2019, 05:10 AMGranyala
Proc sounds interesting, lets see how it turns out.
I just hope they go the intelligence/understanding instead of the RNG/grind route. -
10-26-2019, 05:11 AMNanaWilohOnly concern and one I have had with proc's is, you don't want it forcing you hit let's say careful synth. Proc's should only ask you to press a synth or touch action and not a specific one. If it requires a specific one..good bye rotations and hello whack a mole crafting.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
I need to not post by mobile anymore. lol -
10-26-2019, 05:23 AMCookiesNCreams
Wow, endgame crafting might actually be saved this time.
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10-26-2019, 05:42 AMKabooaIt will be hard to say for certain without seeing how it all shakes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
Edit: Whups, Delicate itself seemed to be unchanged. Misread. -
10-26-2019, 10:08 PMrd77beware, some (maybe a lot) of salt aheadQuote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
When I read the patch notes I was pissed. But worst than the patch notes is the amount of ppl downplaying us, that are not happy with it, reasoning "because people macro"
And this, this made me really pissed. Ppl didn't macro because crafting was "hard". people macro because:
1. They don't care about crafting, but care about money
2. ppl are lazy
neither of those groups will start crafting because of these changes. these people will still macro and they are ruining the game for a portion of their community. So yeah, why did they do it?
After reading some reasoning that this might not be the end of crafting I still have a sliver of hope. Maybe thay came up with a new proc system like the OP said. Maybe we're jumping the gun. But it is always worrisome when I hear the man say something like "We're making it easier"
I do see the trend of making everything more "accessible". That is called reducing everything to the lowest common denominator so people that pay 2.5k for brass gorget can be successful too.Quote:
Originally Posted by blueruckus
I really wish the trend with the game would be more like "easy to understand, hard to master"
I really wish they would think about all the people in the middle, not just Savage/Ultimate raiders and Glamour/RPers. -
10-26-2019, 11:11 PMKageTokage
I'd like to hope they'll somehow make high end crafts so complicated that bots can't reliably HQ stuff anymore...though that's probably just a pipe dream if procs are the only "complexity" involved in them since they can already account for those while in combat and while gathering.
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10-29-2019, 02:32 PMCookiesNCreams
Seems like initial preparations is 100% removed...this is going to be awesome, actually.
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10-29-2019, 07:20 PMNanaWiloh
wow went to make a dwarven cotton thread and muscle memory shot it to 100% damn..lol
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10-29-2019, 09:32 PMtestname
I had fun before v__v now, with this new crafting, its very easy to make 100/100 hq, for example str potions...
I liked the whistle, and making the stack to be the same, it was all interesting, and now it is repeat few skills -> blessing Boink 95-100% done -
10-29-2019, 09:50 PMCookiesNCreams
Oh wow, seems like the newest gear is actually pretty easy and not difficult at all, even with no procs....sooooo Yoshida, why would you say endgame will require procs and will require careful observation in the Dengeki interview....but when the patch drops, that turns out to be a complete lie? You even said the endgame recipes will encourage people not to use macros....that is NOT true. This new stuff is 100% macro’able. So, that was a lie too.
What’s the point of lying in a Dengeki interview like that? What’s the point? It obviously was not a mistranslation either. He’s just going to leave us in the dark about why he lied like that? -
10-29-2019, 10:14 PMKageTokage
...Maybe it's only the ishgard stuff that's hard?
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10-29-2019, 10:16 PMrd77Please look foward to it!™ in 5.2!Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams
Did you think any of this would come this patch? of course not. This might come with Ishigard restoration and we can only pray that he can gives us any kind of challenge, but I'm still skeptical. -
10-29-2019, 10:20 PMCookiesNCreamsWell, if it’s only Ishgard stuff, that’s pretty bad, he made us think that it would be newer endgame recipes that were difficult. Not locked Ishgard recipes...Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
Also, it would likely be in 5.2, highly doubtful it’d be in 5.11. Geez, if the rewards for these recipes aren’t significant in anyway shape or form, I hope Yoshida realizes that hardcore players aren’t going to do them.
Oh I’m as skeptical as a detective now, after this nonsense happened, lol. Trust me. I mean, if 5.2’s recipes do not have any kind of special rewards that encourage hardcore players to do them, it won’t be done. Doesn’t really matter if they’re difficult or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by rd77