Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I'd like to add my pet peeve: People who don't stack for damage shares or run off with them to get one shotted.

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This one was a mad classic in nidhogg story mode xD.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

People who don't stack for damage shares or run off with them to get one shotted.

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https://s14.postimg.org/lk1ysai5d/ez...b408861e9c.gif

Bonus.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/bb7a4150...mcn0o1_500.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/a96f8299...0o2_r1_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

https://s14.postimg.org/lk1ysai5d/ez...b408861e9c.gif

Bonus.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/bb7a4150...mcn0o1_500.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/a96f8299...0o2_r1_400.gif

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People think these sort of things are supposed to be fun and not make the game a job if you do it right. Thanks for the laugh btw!

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

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People think these sort of things are supposed to be fun and not make the game a job if you do it right. Thanks for the laugh btw!

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That fight was like 18m long. Absolute fun. [No].

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

That fight was like 18m long. Absolute fun. [No].

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Excactly. People seem to be thinking it's all about them, so they just gonna sit back and let people go through the deadlong run just because they think it's fine. I also think that person refer to ''its a game, not a job'' also tells everyone they know that their hobby is job too. You know if you are good at a hobby it's suddenly a job. lol. Also you sure it was 18 min long? It's enrage long before that.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Excactly. People seem to be thinking it's all about them, so they just gonna sit back and let people go through the deadlong run just because they think it's fine. I also think that person refer to ''its a game, not a job'' also tells everyone they know that their hobby is job too. You know if you are good at a hobby it's suddenly a job. lol. Also you sure it was 18 min long? It's enrage long before that.

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Yes, cuz we had to wipe and start again xD
I personally don't understand what's *fun* in being vegetable-like and press 2 buttons for such a long time tbh. Each to their own I guess.

I don't know how I feel about you posting two gifs that expose the names of the people you are ridiculing on an online forum. Yes, they made mistakes, but to me this feels too similar to shaming somebody for a mistake.

What's the difference between venting and shaming? You don't name the person you are venting about; you leave it anonymous.

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Originally Posted by Miksu

I don't know how I feel about you posting two gifs that expose the names of the people you are ridiculing on an online forum. Yes, they made mistakes, but to me this feels too similar to shaming somebody for a mistake.

What's the difference between venting and shaming? You don't name the person you are venting about; you leave it anonymous.

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Shaming? Nice meme.
That was just an example of people not caring about mechanics. Anything else is just a part of your imagination, besides editing names in gifs takes too much effort.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Shaming? Nice meme.
That was just an example of people not carring about mechanics. Anything else is just a part of your imagination, besides editing names in gifs takes too much effort.

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Well, if you want to be a shitty person by posting gifs of people doing mistakes and practically screaming ''Look at this dunce!'' then be my guest. No skin off my back.

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Originally Posted by Miksu

Well, if you want to be a shitty person by posting gifs of people doing mistakes and practically screaming ''Look at this dunce!'' then be my guest. No skin off my back.

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Honestly how did they name shame? People do the VERY same mistake often in most groups, it's a common mistake. Go do nidhogg story mode and I bet you 10 bucks someone will run away with stack marker. He showed people in this thread common mistakes people do and if you do them correct, you suddenly make the game a job. It's like saying I love fishing irl but it's suddenly a job because I managed to catch 10 fishes in 1 hour.

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Originally Posted by Miksu

Well, if you want to be a shitty person by posting gifs of people doing mistakes and practically screaming ''Look at this dunce!'' then be my guest. No skin off my back.

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It's not like I care about what random person thinks of me on a forum of a random game ;3
The point wasn't even in their names. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

https://s14.postimg.org/lk1ysai5d/ez...b408861e9c.gif

Bonus.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/bb7a4150...mcn0o1_500.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/a96f8299...0o2_r1_400.gif

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I'll always be confused by how someone can think a circle of arrows pointing inward means to run to the corner of the map, especially when it's been used in almost every fight for the last 2 years.

Some people have no sense.

If you guys would take 1 second to notice, nobody else stacked, both would of been dead most likely. He did the right move by sacking himself and keeping casualties to 1.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

If you guys would take 1 second to notice, nobody else stacked, both would of been dead most likely. He did the right move by sacking himself and keeping casualties to 1.

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ya cos it makes it very easy to stack with you when you dash to the edge of the arena.

Though either way, the amount of times I've seen someone intentionally avoid the group with a stack marker is staggering.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

If you guys would take 1 second to notice, nobody else stacked, both would of been dead most likely. He did the right move by sacking himself and keeping casualties to 1.

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Gif is kinda fast, I admit, but another healer made a move towards *victim* (you can notice that), plus there were people next to boss, which were not caught by camera. He had time to come to us x3

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Honestly how did they name shame? People do the VERY same mistake often in most groups, it's a common mistake. Go do nidhogg story mode and I bet you 10 bucks someone will run away with stack marker. He showed people in this thread common mistakes people do and if you do them correct, you suddenly make the game a job. It's like saying I love fishing irl but it's suddenly a job because I managed to catch 10 fishes in 1 hour.

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I agree that I came off as aggressive and implicated that her intention had maliciousness behind it. I apologize for that. However, what is then suppose to be the context of those gifs? Were you not discussing something that pisses you off and then you show these two gifs? Now I know who pisses you off because you showed their names to me, and if I wanted to, I could now proceed to harass them in-game thanks to you exposing their identities to me. It has a potential for abuse because you now know the identities of these people.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

If you guys would take 1 second to notice, nobody else stacked, both would of been dead most likely. He did the right move by sacking himself and keeping casualties to 1.

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Actually the gif is too quick to know the whole thing. The person may have had people stacked with them, but they then ran away and people gave chase then gave up since if someone is running away it is better not to stack and just let them kill themselves cause usually you'll just end up dead too if you try to chase someone who is running away with a stack marker. (Seen it happen a lot)

So...no your scenario isn't necessarily correct we'd need to see the whole recording. Since there is the opposite to your scenario "people may have been stacked with the stack person, but the stack marker person ran away so people chased at first then gave up since if the stack marker person is running away it is better not to chase them and try to stack to limit the casualties to 1."

We see a raise animation. So we at least know 7 party members are alive and from that 2 are targeted with lines and 1 is obviously tanking. Meaning 4 are available to stack. Out of those 4 we only see targetted + 2 meaning the 4th is either not paying attention or dead. Taking that stack with 3 while she's in that chinchilla mode (i know that's not what it's called), I'm not so sure about. I would of sacked it and hoped the other healer can recover. I'm more worried that the other healer just watched it happen and didn't start or plan the recovery. Standing still for a good 3-4 seconds there.

Sure he could of moved in but that could of also killed both healers and ensure a wipe. In my book, he did the correct play. Free to disagree though. It's not the only possible play.

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Originally Posted by Miksu

I agree that I came off as aggressive and implicated that her intention had maliciousness behind it. I apologize for that. .

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Look, it's understandable why you came out aggresive and there is nothing to say sorry for. The point was to show how many people do in this game and many here think it's something we have to accept and shut our mouths and if we don't we are the a-holes.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Look, it's understandable why you came out aggresive and there is nothing to say sorry for. The point was to show how many people do in this game and many here think it's something we have to accept and shut our mouths and if we don't we are the a-holes.

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That's fine.

I just wanted to showcase the potential for abuse. For example, a law may not be racist, but it can have racist consequences.

A gif may not be intended to shame someone, but it can have those consequences. The original poster might not have had that intention behind it, but somebody else could now shame that person by calling them out on dying in Lakshmi fight, because they know their name. That's all I wanted to show, and I worded my post poorly regarding the original poster.

I'm going to leave this at that.

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Originally Posted by Miksu

That's fine.
I'm going to leave this at that.

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No I totally get you, the forums is not here for name shaming and I totally agree! It might have some consequences yes because the names aren't blured out, but in my case I don't think I'm going to focus on the characters name here but rather the topic, which the gifs brought up as well. And yeah I get you but lets leave it like this :). And no worries I know you only meant good intentions!

Back to topic: I wish people could stop paying attention to other things when they do fights, because it's not fun because someone cant pay attention to a simpel mechanic.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I'll always be confused by how someone can think a circle of arrows pointing inward means to run to the corner of the map, especially when it's been used in almost every fight for the last 2 years.

Some people have no sense.

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To be fair that is a viable tactic if you are a PLD... >.>

Some people might think that they wanted to be brought along while the others play well.

Other than that, they might be a new player or it's their first time.

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Originally Posted by spagthetapdancer

I did. days ago. my problem is that I don't trust you or anyone to have restraint with their standards. to keep them realistic, or really anything reasonable. Because while you might get people those things, I get "skip soaror disband" (I'm not joining those when I just came back from a break and arrive 3 weeks into the patch) or ilvl 320 requirements on Susano EX learning parties(current). I get one dude flipping out that people learning those EX's aren't pushing out 4200+ dps in patch 4.05.

Because the players in this game don't advertise their minimum acceptable standards in a group. they set standards that allow them leeway to make smooth, efficient runs with little to no wipes even when their group is learning. that has been my experience: people throwing the meta around like a beating stick even when it isn't appropriate. people using the top performers as a means of bullying the middle or lower end because it hurts their bottom line.

Why would I trust random peoples' standards if the bulk of the standards people I run into hold are like that? why would I allow others to subject me to theirs if I don't trust them to use moderation? I don't have to blindly trust what HyoMinPark because she blatantly explained hers with a degree of clarity. all you've posted in a list of exaggerated grievances with particularly clueless players no one in their right mind would support a group being subjected to. it's clearly hyperbolic even if the sheer quantity of players in this game guarantees they at least exist.

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Um....
Your comparing endgame farming to normal dungeons and expert, then it is explained in the first post.

The 2 situations are not related at all. Just admit you came here with a bias rant that was not fitting for the thread. I can make a PF saying I want ilevel340 gear people just to see if I can push a 12 min expert, it is my right to set different standards for PF, on top of endgame PF farming, and comparing it to normal DF randoms / solo queue for exp?

There is reasons for the skip soar meme, some people in i270 gear could have less dps then i230 gear, when you run into stuff like that, you have every right to kick them in a pf setting when someone is not meeting an easy passable benchmark if you know your job or bother to look online for a good rotation.

Also skip soar or disband pts usually depend on SKIPPING IT, meaning they drop a tank or healer or both? so when you have 6 or 5 dps under performing what 4 high skilled can do and fail to skip soar, that is a big issue, no qualms with disband. It is really no different then passing the vote abandon in SB's 24 man when they can't pass the dps checks on the second boss.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I know this is a bit off topic but honestly what is your purpose in this thread? Like, you clicked on it and decided to reply but to what end? What are you advocating? It sounds like you have a similar approach to bad play that many of the people you're arguing against employ so then... why are you here?

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I originally responded to the OP, and later joined a discussion related to 'lazy play' with ( i think the char name was hyo something rather? )

That discussion was primarily why I was here. A claim was made about 'lazy play'. The point I wanted to make is that you cant truly determine a player is being lazy unless they tell you they're being lazy. Data points like level are not indicators of lazy play.

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I would know where you stand.

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My stance is treating people who make these bad plays as if they are new/just dont know what to do. In addition, I believe that for most content, "poor performance" really doesnt matter that much. Initially, I believed the OP's "poor play" to be related to "poor performance" which i think is where some of the confusion originated.

For the sake of having an example of why poor performance doesnt matter on most content, let's say a BLM is spamming Freeze as their AoE rotation in a dungeon. If you attempt to assist them with their rotation, but they continue to spam freeze, you might kick them, but you kick them for their unwillingness to work with the group not their actual performance. If they were attempting the proper rotation but weren't flawless with execution, from my experience they dont get kicked / yelled at, etc, and its good that they stay in party so that they can practice.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Oh I'm not saying I want hour long runs. Hmm Let me explain better, I was more scared that from reading the comments that noone does dungeons and or hated them and that was why they wanted 15 min runs. It's been cleared up on why, but I won't lie and say it's not a fear I have reaching endgame. Mostly cause being 5 days old I'm hoping I'm not part of the problem. I haven't timed my runs but the last run of doma we finished with 75min left? something around there? might've been 70 mins I can't remember. I just remember it was 70. So it's a bit of me being worried about my own proformance and the fact i feel I'm the only one who loves being in the dungeons. But Bourne_endeavor cleared it up abit. So I thank her a million times for that. I stil worry over my proformance tho.

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75 would be 15 minutes so more than acceptable. :) Even 70 would still be a 20 minute dungeon run. The problem for quite some veterans is that we have run dungeons for a long time. Even I who dont run them that often have reached quite an amount of runs. If you run them again and again for years (especially if they are part of relic weapons) you just want them to be done, even if you like them.

In the end the most important thing is that everyone in a party should try their best. :) If I have someone in my group that is new and failing at stuff its fine. Heck even if you are an veteran you can fail. Nobody is perfect. (I still was a bit angry at myself when I once died at nearly all the towers in the new 24 man raid...yet the next run I only died once) Mistakes happens but as long as you try to do everything you can (and honestly I for example will never be at top DPS for summoner since I cant just get that opener down but I still try to do good.) even if that might still be on another level than someone else, its good. People are just annoyed at those that dont care at all. That are immune to any tips and that dont even understand the simply basics of their job.

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Originally Posted by winsock

That discussion was primarily why I was here. A claim was made about 'lazy play'. The point I wanted to make is that you cant truly determine a player is being lazy unless they tell you they're being lazy. Data points like level are not indicators of lazy play.

My stance is treating people who make these bad plays as if they are new/just dont know what to do.

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So that level 65 PLD (who also had multiple other level 70 jobs including DARK KNIGHT) I came across who couldn't hold hate on anything in Dusk Vigil leveling roulette so that I had to tank half the mobs in the pull on WHM (or the DPS tanked)....they were just new/didn't know what to do? Already has DRK at 70 along with a few other 70 jobs and can't hold hate in a leveling dungeon on a sync'd 65 PLD? They're just new and/or they just don't know what to do?

I think you're still floating out in that nebula 5million light years from planet Earth still if you think you cannot tell if laziness is a factor sometimes.

What excuse is there for a tank who has PLD at 65 and DRK at 70 to not know how to just simply hold hate on trash mobs by that point? Even ignoring mitigation just the simple task of just using level 6 Flash so that all three mobs stay on them instead of 2/3 ending up being tanked by the healer or other DPS?

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Originally Posted by winsock

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Your entire argument is giving every player you come across that is playing poorly the benefit of the doubt based on hypotheticals.

Also, no one is going to come out and admit that they are being lazy and don't feel like trying, the most you will get out of anyone is the "It's my sub" excuse if any response at all.

I think you place way too much faith in random people and for some odd reason just don't want to admit that there are players out there that deliberately play poorly because of reasons like "It's a game not a job" "It's my sub, I play how I want.


They have a word for people with your mentality. It's called Naiveté.

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Originally Posted by Miste

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Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Your entire argument is giving every player you come across that is playing poorly the benefit of the doubt based on hypotheticals.

Also, no one is going to come out and admit that they are being lazy and don't feel like trying, the most you will get out of anyone is the "It's my sub" excuse if any response at all.

I think you place way too much faith in random people and for some odd reason just don't want to admit that there are players out there that deliberately play poorly because of reasons like "It's a game not a job" "It's my sub, I play how I want.


They have a word for people with your mentality. It's called Naiveté.

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so that is where naive comes from, neat. Yes you are correct.

@:

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Originally Posted by winsock

I originally responded to the OP, and later joined a discussion related to 'lazy play' with ( i think the char name was hyo something rather? )

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Have you ever talked or try talking to them? "You do not pay for my sub" is what one of my friends heard when asking for goad after she gave the person goad (2 sams)

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

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pressing flash/overpower/ unleash enough is hard???

No excuse to have a tank at 70 on your second one without knowing the basics, this is why advance tutorials are needed, and you need pass them for each job before entering a DF.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

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I never tell other people what jobs are easy because it depends on the person, but, my example just mentions simply holding hate.

You need one single button to hold AoE hate on PLD. Flash. Are you claiming pressing Flash even once was "too hard" for that level 65 PLD I had? "Maybe the player just sucks at tanking" so they cannot use Flash even once because it is too hard for them?

Or the actual more plausible possibility that they simply were too lazy to read the tooltip for Flash so they don't know what it does and/or was just too lazy to bother worrying about keeping hate and was watching Netflix.

You are basically just ignoring the more plausible explanations for extreme outliers. How did they get PLD to 65, DRK to 70 and multiple other jobs, or even get by the character creator if they were incapable of pressing one button?

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Originally Posted by Miste

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

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You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

I am not saying that lazy play doesn't happen. However to think that bad players are ONLY just lazy players is a bad generalization and discredits the claim. It's like saying "Some of these apples have worms in them so ALL apples must have worms in it." It's faulty logic and doesn't support the claim. There may be more factors going on then what appears on your screen.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

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I'm just here gecause I'm loving your character design and your picture profile in your sig. - BIG HUGZ- ok.. I'm done.

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Originally Posted by ko_

I'm just here gecause I'm loving your character design and your picture profile in your sig. - BIG HUGZ- ok.. I'm done.

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Thanks a lot! :3

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3.

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No I am not, the example I used the PLD never used Flash. That was the reason they couldn't hold AoE hate. I am not talking about the combo. So it is literally they couldn't press one button to make sure the healer and DPS weren't tanking the other 2 mobs out of a 3 mob pull. They had the competence to understand the 1-2-3 combo yet couldn't manage to use Flash once?

The question is how did they not know how to use Flash at level 65? Laziness. You learn Flash at level 6 and whose fault is it that they don't know how to use it? The only one to blame is themselves.

They didn't read the tooltip or practice it during those 59 levels to see what it does? No.
If they read the tooltip but didn't understand it did they not even or ask fellow players for help on what it does and/or use it in dungeons just to test it? No.
Did they not look up a PLD guide to help themselves if they didn't understand the tooltip? No.
When they pull trash packs and realize the 2/3 of the mobs are attacking the healer or DPS did they wonder why and seek out help? No.
I politely suggested they use Flash halfway through the dungeon so they wouldn't lose hate on the mobs did they think about using it? No, they ignored me.

All of that is their own fault.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move,

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You're adding things to my expectations that aren't there. I said in my post I am only talking about simply holding hate on 3 mobs as an example from what I personally saw this level 65 PLD do. I am talking the lowest tanking expectation of just holding hate and that alone. I don't care if they positioned wrong, or got hit by a few telegraphs.. Although I am being generous considering their resume of 70 jobs including DRK which means they should have a tanking basis.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

I am not saying that lazy play doesn't happen. However to think that bad players are ONLY just lazy players is a bad generalization and discredits the claim.

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Yeah...and where did I say all bad play is laziness? All I said was sometimes you can definitely see if laziness is a factor.

I was responding to someone who was actually making a bad generalization of the opposite? Claiming that you can never tell if someone is being lazy and they are all simply "new" or "just don't know".

The fact is that "not knowing" certain basics by certain levels in this game like a tank not knowing how to use AoE enmity Flash/Unleash, by level 60+ means they are highly likely being lazy and if they don't want to be lazy then maybe they should get off their butt and actually try to help themselves by quickly reading tooltips, quickly skim a job guide for a few mins, or ask fellow players for help who have the job leveled.


PS. What did you do to the quote thing lol my quote has a picture of a male lalafell which I've never played one before ever yet my name is beside it? If I hover over it it says it is a poster named "Len" O.o

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

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For a tank, all of this can, and should be understood well before 50. Hell, much of it should be learned before Brayflox, and if not, Brayflox is designed to make you learn it. As for hotbars, some might call it work, but I call it my own personal QoL to be mindful of these things in my own downtime. That's not to say I haven't made hotbar edits in an instance before, but I can never claim mistakes or poor performance was due to not having things set up properly, or knowing what is where.

Fact is, the people that make those proper steps to be prepared and make effort to perform well almost always do. The same cannot be said for those that don't.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

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In the example that you quoted, it is a player, that has managed to reach towards the end of the game, that fails to understand that basic concept of his role. If he is a tank, he has to hold threat. If he can't do that by level 65, he shouldn't be playing tank. To even begin with, let's assume he job boosted. He still had to go a minimum of 5 levels of this, and I personally doubt they were grinding open world monsters or fates, otherwise they'd still be doing it rather than showing up to a dungeon. This means he managed to get taken through multiple levels, as a terrible tank that can't hold more than 1 target. This is where part of my issue was.

It's not even just players failing to press the most basic of buttons (How do you not know flash?) It's also that we gotta take them by the hand, carry them through, make them feel like they know what they're doing when they clearly don't. Honestly, I'd rather have a tank that has threat on everything and gets hit by everything. Things don't hit hard enough, but the point would be that the damage is focused on the person that can take it. Wanna know what's not fun? WHM tanking. MCH tanking. NIN tanking (This is after Shadewalker on them... please.)

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

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Then, if they suck, they should try to get better. If they refuse to get better, or just can’t, then they should probably not tank.

To be frank, the refusing to improve/get better at a job or role is the same thing as lazy play. It’s bad AND lazy play on the behalf of that player.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I just got through a Snowcloak that I joined in towards the end, with 45 minutes in.

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The time elapse alone would have told me something was seriously wrong. But I've timed out in the Aery before, with a PIP que, so... *shrugs* I suppose this is why FCs were created but unfortunately, proper training doesn't seem to be big on their overall agenda. Honestly, the best advise I've ever gotten has been from exasperated people in instanced duties, so your advice might actually be working--just not at the time you gave it. Don't give up tho. :D

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Thanks a lot! :3

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I second your awesomeness.