WHAT?! 625 Million for first class House?

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Originally Posted by shikarin

Because charging for titan is the only way to make gil in this game right? I mean, damn if only you could do those solo titan carries, you too can make 20m gil in less than a week, like I said.

Although we've already established you don't know how to make gil, so again not surprised that's what you would think.

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Originally Posted by Dgsoil

This is nothing but a gil sink taken to the extreme, and I don't know about your economy but mine has morons that sell things for cheaper than they NPC for on the markets constantly and will undercut people by more than half the price, tanking most means of making gil outside of one and two star recipes.

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But it doesn't surprise me that someone like you doesn't read or care about the entire viewpoint and are only fixated on your own. Good day to you Shika Rin.

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Originally Posted by Dgsoil

But it doesn't surprise me that someone like you doesn't read or care about the entire viewpoint and are only fixated on your own. Good day to you Shika Rin.

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I don't see a "point" in your post other than "I don't know how to make gil." You complain that people undercut, sell cheaper than NPC, blah blah blah, which, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that imply you don't know how to make gil?

As for gil sink. Yeah you can call it a gil silk, or you can call it one of the few reasons to even have gil in this game? Last time I checked gil can't buy you i90 gear. Gil can't buy you mounts. Gil can't buy you costumes. Very few people use(need?) consumables.

But keep trying.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

Because charging for titan is the only way to make gil in this game right? I mean, damn if only you could do those solo titan carries, you too can make 20m gil in less than a week, like I said.

Although we've already established you don't know how to make gil, so again not surprised that's what you would think.

But since you can't argue against me on any point relevant to gameplay, it's only natural you would resort to attacking character.

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LOL, yea, 20mil in less than a week these days my ass, what are you selling, magic fairy dust? While it would've been doable on legacy servers at the beginning, these days when nothing is worth jack shit because nobody needs anything, I'd like to see how any one person, much less any significant number of players, can make 20mil a week, especially in an economic climate where everyone is trying to make money and save it, but not spend them.

I'd say the thing that strikes me about those Legacy server prices is that they're directly correlated with the fact that the hacked RMT gil that was adjusted on other servers was never touched on Legacy servers (remember that whole gil > x amount = ban fiasco?). The problem is, if you're on a Legacy server, like Sargatanas, for me, and never took part in any of that, you can't even see that kind of money in your dreams. Sure, the very richest of the rich have that money, but not only do the rest of the server not have that kind of cash, there simply isn't any way given current in-game gil generation to even create that amount. Selling to the rich doesn't work either, as their excess gil will disappear into that ginormous housing price.

TL;DR: If you're on a Legacy server and didn't participate in the whole selling 2*s to RMTers debacle a while back, you're out of luck.

the thing is.........housing is not needed, none of you will leave and the ones that do will be the ones that would have left anyway, the people complaining about this that are not legacy are basically just spewing completely empty threats to SE, call me when the legacy only players have thier own thread about this.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

LOL, yea, 20mil in less than a week these days my ass, what are you selling, magic fairy dust? While it would've been doable on legacy servers at the beginning, these days when nothing is worth jack shit because nobody needs anything, I'd like to see how any one person, much less any significant number of players, can make 20mil a week

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If you play 16 hours a day (I said hardcore), and maintain about 4-5 different revenue sources, yes you can just about legitimately make 20m in one week. Dual box doesn't hurt, not absolutely necessary, but might make your life a little easier.

(and yes that is solo. If you're running a group, then it will be somewhat easier for each person to earn 20m)

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

the thing is.........housing is not needed, none of you will leave and the ones that do will be the ones that would have left anyway, the people complaining about this that are not legacy are basically just spewing completely empty threats to SE, call me when the legacy only players have thier own thread about this.

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You're right. Housing IS optional, but it should also be fairly accessible to the majority of the player base. I also believe whole heartedly that it should also take time and require a whole FC to achieve. The pricing though could be lowered a bit, making it accessible to said majority in a reasonable amount of time. Not on day 1 of the patch, but not months and months.

There are new outlets for making gil after this patch esp crafting items for houses. I don't think it is a problem that it can take time to acquire a house, especially with everyone crying about being bored. Really there is no reason to panic. :)

Also if you consider that housing is a FC rank accessed, group activity.. the gil collection for a house plot should also be considered a group activity, not a single player venture requiring only one player's bank.

And finally,
The Devaluation Timer

The price of a plot of land is set to be reduced 14% every six hours.
Example:
Small
- Starting Price: 8,000,000 gil
- 10 Days Later: 7,552,000 gil
- 15 Days Later: 7,328,000 gil
- 30 Days Later: 6,656,000 gil
- 90 Days Later: 3,698,000 gil
* The price will reduce a maximum of 360 times in 90 days and will will fall to half its starting price.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that this current housing is meant for Free Companies, not individual player housing. On my server the cheapest house is 8m, which is totally doable by one player if they save up for a few weeks, and even more so by a small FC of even 5-10 players. I've never really tried to make money but I'm always around 800k, fluctuating down to 0-100k at times but I always bounce back up to at least 500k or so. If I really worked at it I'm sure I could save up around 1.5m in short order.

I'd go so far as to say that even the best medium plot size house is doable at 37.5m for most FC's of 20-50 players. The largest houses aren't going to be available to anyone except possibly a FC full of people who had all 50 crafts at the start of the game and are loaded, but in time they will drop to manageable prices - for me it's 125m, and at half price of around 60m that is easily doable by the larger FCs. For all the small 5-10 man FCs I think they're stuck buying a small house, but it should be easily affordable if you've saved up any kind of cash at all.

I get creating content in the game that is hardcore Coil is may not be the hardest content but it is locked so if 8 of my FC run to turn 4 and our 9th member wants help well too bad dude. We all pay a monthly fee to enjoy the content of this game. Housing has been something promise by SE for a long time now they introduce it and low and behold as with pretty much everything they do it is a complete let down. Yes housing should be available to all Free Companies no matter what their size. If a small FC of say 10-20 players wants to have a small house to call their base who is SE to say F you go join a bigger group. I do not believe that every single FC should have an estate.
Last I checked Yoshida labeled this game as something you can play as a casual how can they justify this being ok? Anyway just adding to the list of disappointed people. Great Job SE just keep watching those subs dwindle just waiting for those 1.0 days of a whopping 25 people online at any given time .

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Two months and you haven't got the money for the small pot ? -_- Large community ? o.O -snip- .

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It shows where I am from next to my avatar... meaning...
http://i.imgur.com/zXXMOvK.png

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

the thing is.........housing is not needed,

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Nothing in this game is "needed"

It's funny. White knights on these forums say people who complain are elitists who only care about drops. Then when we get excited about a content that is about fun and not drops, we're told "well this is optional, you can't complain about that either."

I mean, really?

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

And finally,
The Devaluation Timer

The price of a plot of land is set to be reduced 14% every six hours.
Example:
Small
- Starting Price: 8,000,000 gil
- 10 Days Later: 7,552,000 gil
- 15 Days Later: 7,328,000 gil
- 30 Days Later: 6,656,000 gil
- 90 Days Later: 3,698,000 gil
* The price will reduce a maximum of 360 times in 90 days and will will fall to half its starting price.

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Might want to stop perpetuating SE's terrible typos.

If you actually checked the math out, it's 0.14%, as in ZERO POINT ONE FOUR PERCENT.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

There are new outlets for making gil after this patch esp crafting items for houses. I don't think it is a problem that it can take time to acquire a house, especially with everyone crying about being bored. Really there is no reason to panic. :)

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The problem is that the people that can afford the houses are likely able to just gather and make the furnishings themselves as these high tier houses require money from huge amounts of people. Also it is tons and tons of money just being drained out of the economy and then the rest of the populace is stuck being unable to get the money they need as the players that would be the ones buying expensive items have been cleaned out.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

LOL, yea, 20mil in less than a week these days my ass, what are you selling, magic fairy dust? While it would've been doable on legacy servers at the beginning, these days when nothing is worth jack shit because nobody needs anything, I'd like to see how any one person, much less any significant number of players, can make 20mil a week, especially in an economic climate where everyone is trying to make money and save it, but not spend them.

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Pretty much this, the major appeal to this patch (money making wise) was going to be an influx of craftable furniture. Things that skilled crafters can make with Ifrit Horns/Garuda Feather/Titan Heart/ADS Plate/ADS Frame. But with people not buying houses the TRUE want/need for these vanity items is moot. In 1.0 I could farm 20 mil easy by farming hides and selling shards. Now everyone farms hides and shards can only be obtained (let's face it they have 24 hours to farm vast amounts) by RMTs, crafting requires so many shards that even us 1.0 players with 9999+ shards have gone through our hoards and cannot reliably farm them to keep up, I can get probably 200 shards in an hour and blow through them in 15 minutes. Right now the only items that sell for "high" values are Food (because of the ridiculous shard costs and how many mats it takes just to make 1 item) and Philo items which will slowly become obsolete.

This makes me sad.
My FC is full of wonderful people, the vast majority of whom are new to mmos and casual players. I have received donations as little as 1k gil from new players and I appreciate their generosity. :) We have been looking forward to FC housing as something different to play with in this game. In the end, we've been shut out.

I really wish more than ever that personal housing had come first and then we could work up to buying a clubhouse afterwards. But now we have nothing but more dungeons to look forward to. :-/ I hated being the bearer of bad news.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

The problem is that the people that can afford the houses are likely able to just gather and make the furnishings themselves as these high tier houses require money from huge amounts of people. Also it is tons and tons of money just being drained out of the economy and then the rest of the populace is stuck being unable to get the money they need as the players that would be the ones buying expensive items have been cleaned out.

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It won't work like that. Having gil sinks do not inhibit gil production. In fact, it should be an incentive for more people to produce gil. It honestly should have very little impact on market prices or difficulty in obtaining gil. It might lower liquidity, depending on exactly how many people want to buy houses, which actually reduces the gil sink provided by market tax. Housing prices is actually not really a big deal. The market tax is, and will always be, the be-all end-all for inflation control.

Like the guy with the crazy beard told us, the rent is too damn high.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

It won't work like that. Having gil sinks do not inhibit gil production. In fact, it should be an incentive for more people to produce gil. It honestly should have very little impact on market prices or difficulty in obtaining gil. It might lower liquidity, depending on exactly how many people want to buy houses, which actually reduces the gil sink provided by market tax. Housing prices is actually not really a big deal. The market tax is, and will always be, the be-all end-all for inflation control.

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You know how it'll work?! Are you a psychic?!

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Originally Posted by Airinya

You know how it'll work?! Are you a psychic?!

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You could call it playing MMOs for 14 years and having an finance background. Or you could just call it common sense. Depends on your perspective.

Out of that 50 pages of patch note, if people going to quit because of one page of content which mainly affect less than 10% of the total population (assuming the price is too "high"). All I got to say is, good bye, and hope to not see you again.

P.S then again, if you can't afford the best and biggest piece of land, then you should probably look at 5th class plot and small land. Just because you can't afford the Ferrari, doesn't mean it is the end of the world. There is Audi, Toyota, Honda out there. If you still can't afford those, then maybe you are not playing hard enough. Tough shit, there is no free lunch.

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Originally Posted by senjyo

Out of that 50 pages of patch note, if people going to quit because of one page of content which mainly affect less than 10% of the total population (assuming the price is too "high"). All I got to say is, good bye, and hope to not see you again.

P.S then again, if you can't afford the best and biggest piece of land, then you should probably look at 5th class plot and small land. Just because you can't afford the Ferrari, doesn't mean it is the end of the world. There is Audi, Toyota, Honda out there. If you still can't afford those, then maybe you are not playing hard enough. Tough shit, there is no free lunch.

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Incoming: you are a bad person rants
I however agree with you completely

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Originally Posted by shikarin

If you play 16 hours a day (I said hardcore))

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if you have time to play that much a day, you're likely either a child, unemployed and living in your parents basement, or some sort of trust fund child.

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Originally Posted by cearka

if you have time to play that much a day, you're likely either a child, unemployed and living in your parents basement, or some sort of trust fund child.

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I mentioned it as a possibility. I did start out with the more reasonable assertion that 4 people playing normally can earn 20m gil in 3-4 weeks.

That said, do you look down on people based on how much they like to play games, something that does not concern you in the slightest? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

Although we've already established you don't know how to make gil, so again not surprised that's what you would think.

But since you can't argue against me on any point relevant to gameplay, it's only natural you would resort to attacking character.

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Did it ever occur to you as a player on a 'new' world that when talking to a player on a 'legacy' world the economies don't work the same...and furthermore. Lets just say you DO both belong to a Free Company filled with 80 active members. Lets say you are aiming for a medium house on the best plot:

On Faerie that house =30Mil (or about 375K a person)...which I AGREE is a reasonable amount for that sized house and FC to pay.
On Hyperion that SAME plot/house=94ish Mil (or about 1.18MIL per person) ...more than 3times your servers price point.

Oh and btw for the 'biggest and best' on Faerie=1.56ish Milx 80 FC members on Hyperion=3.9Milx80 FC members

I am a legacy player. I personally have a solid bank account. Some others in my FC have more than me, but many have less. Still, I see no reason in bankrupting myself for something that is:
1. Vanity
2. Not personally mine
3. Not priced fair across all servers
4.Something that can just cause poor feelings/tension in a FC...and the bigger the FC, the more likely the tensions are.

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Originally Posted by cearka

if you have time to play that much a day, you're likely either a child, unemployed and living in your parents basement, or some sort of trust fund child.

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Or an entrepreneur with a loving gamer family and massive passive income =)

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Originally Posted by shikarin

I mentioned it as a possibility. I did start out with the more reasonable assertion that 4 people playing normally can earn 20m gil in 3-4 weeks.

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Sigh, making money off other players will not work when everyone is trying to do the same thing. If the entire server is trying to save up money to buy houses, who's going to purchase your goods?

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Did it ever occur to you as a player on a 'new' world that when talking to a player on a 'legacy' world the economies don't work the same...and furthermore. Lets just say you DO both belong to a Free Company filled with 80 active members. Lets say you are aiming for a medium house on the best plot:

snip

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No, they work the same. Because, oh... I dunno, it's the same game?

Above anything, it is time that matters, not gil. There can be an argument made about the fairness of solely basing costs on gil in circulation, if that is what they did. But that was not my point in this series of posts.

It's simply that 20m gil is not supremely difficult to get.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

Sigh, making money off other players will not work when everyone is trying to do the same thing. If the entire server is trying to save up money to buy houses, who's going to purchase your goods?

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"Everyone saving up money to buy houses" is not a fair generalization to make.

As Kinseykinz so conveniently just demonstrated, there are probably plenty of people who don't want to buy a house, and would rather spend their gil to purchase my goods.

it will drop if no one buys a home SE will say "it cost too much no one is using our housing system. we need to make futher adjustments". we all know it wont happen people will hit up there favorite RMT website.

so now we have multi-million dollar homes for sell and no money coming from the MW since people are knocking down prices so much its stupid. mats are costing more then the end items so you lose money on that, mats are being undercut to 50%-75% or the typical sale then it changes to that low price. if you under cut you just need to do it by one gil.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

"Everyone saving up money to buy houses" is not a fair generalization to make.

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But using numbers that only a small number of people can achieve in a small system like 14's as the norm is? I've made that amount in that time frame alone by myself, doesn't mean I'm blind to the large picture.

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As Kinseykinz so conveniently just demonstrated, there are probably plenty of people who don't want to buy a house, and would rather spend their gil to purchase my goods.

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You may want to read his comments again, this time without taking it out of the context of the ridiculous housing price.

<Random FC> LFM to join our FC we are saving up for a large lot, have a lot of members to help you out.
Must pay a 1 million gil joining fee upon application.

Have a nice day.

But seriously while I understand the need to reduce gil circulation over the long run. (A lot of it is self inflicted due to SE's poor management of RMT's and Bot's) There comes a point where things just get ridiculous. I have about 1.5 mil gil currently. Which I'll admit is very low for having every L50 crafter and gatherer. But I am by no means poor. I did a pretty hard push at one point and made about 1.2mil of it binding and selling Rank 3 materia. But I have also watched the price drop and drop and drop. At this point if it isn't vitality or crit material it isn't even worth my time to list. It got to the point I hit 1.5 mil and stopped bothering trying to make gil because my time was worth way more than the amount of gil I was making with it.

Also different size houses for individuals makes complete sense. For Fc's ... not so much. And looking at these prices I can completely see FC's start demanding X amount of guild made and donated on a per week/month basis now. Personally for me that would be a cold day in hell. And outside of donating a little to the FC in order to be a good fc member. Why the hell would I want to invest that much of my gil in something lets face only the GM and officers are really going to have any real say in. I am not an officer, I am just a peon in my guild. And while it is a great guild ran by good people. At the end of the day it isn't going to be them asking me what type of house, what decorations, or what bonuses we are going to use. It is just going to be them making the decisions and me living with it.

No Thank You.

I haven't turned my game on in 2 weeks because outside of coil I have done everything in the game to do. Was coming back for 2.1, But housing is really big to me and looking at this.. mabey I am done till 2.2

The Devaluation Timer

The price of a plot of land is set to be reduced 14% every six hours.


625mil will be roughly 370mill at the end of day one. So you can't buy it on day one...boohoo. just wait a couple weeks for them to drop. Just like in real life if the real estate market sucks the prices go DOWN. Don't buy them straight away...

BUT OMG I WANT TO PUT MY FAKE DIGITAL FURNITURE IN MY FAKE DIGITAL HOUSE...grow up Peter Pan.

Hahaha!!! How does it feel to be Legacy now folks? They took our millions and made them thousands, took our thousands and made them hundreds, turned our gear into worthless trash that clogged up our inventory space, they gave us a stamp on the back of our necks a couple of freebies and called it good. Now we are stuck on Legacy worlds with no way off, forced to pay enormous sums for housing, I mean come on 20.000,000 for the smallest meanest house on my over crowded server. My old mog house was free, full of furniture that I regularly moved around and even if I couldn't sit down I always logged out by the fire.....lets hope they get the message and don't pull this with personal housing.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

But using numbers that only a small number of people can achieve in a small system like 14's as the norm is? I've made that amount in that time frame alone by myself, doesn't mean I'm blind to the large picture.

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Yes, I think saying most people on the server, in groups of 4, can make 20m in 4 weeks is fair.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

and I disagree.

What numbers are you basing this on? For something that the majority of the player base can do at the same time in an economy with so little consumption as 14's, it'll have to be from a gil-fountain source.

Maybe i've missed something, but last time I checked leves and such doesn't generate 1.25mil per week, which, btw, comes out to approx. 1700-1800 leves, or about 600 dungeon runs.

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Can't post anymore so I'll put it here. =p

It's a good question so I want to give the answer. Don't need numbers. Why? Because earning 20m is not the same as taking 20m out of the economy. Therefore the rate at which gil is generated does not matter. It's kind of a loophole yes. =p I said it's possible for most people on the server to earn 20m a week. I didn't say it's possible for most people on the server to earn 20m a week and then never spend any of it. Again, goes back to my earlier point about how not everyone is looking to buy a house. Especially considering a house has no practical value in relation to combat aspects of gameplay. In a way, currency can be used as a measure of production. You can think of it as 4 people, after 4 weeks of reasonable playing, can earn the equivalent value of a small fifth-class plot of land. Arguing about whether people can earn gil as an end in itself is meaningless. Gil itself does nothing.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsend

The Devaluation Timer

The price of a plot of land is set to be reduced 14% every six hours.


625mil will be roughly 370mill at the end of day one. So you can't buy it on day one...boohoo. just wait a couple weeks for them to drop. Just like in real life if the real estate market sucks the prices go DOWN. Don't buy them straight away...

BUT OMG I WANT TO PUT MY FAKE DIGITAL FURNITURE IN MY FAKE DIGITAL HOUSE...grow up Peter Pan.

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No, it's 0.14%, that's a typo in the patch notes.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1512/si2h.png

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Originally Posted by Shadowsend

The Devaluation Timer

The price of a plot of land is set to be reduced 14% every six hours.


625mil will be roughly 370mill at the end of day one. So you can't buy it on day one...boohoo. just wait a couple weeks for them to drop. Just like in real life if the real estate market sucks the prices go DOWN. Don't buy them straight away...

BUT OMG I WANT TO PUT MY FAKE DIGITAL FURNITURE IN MY FAKE DIGITAL HOUSE...grow up Peter Pan.

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You clearly didn't read the patch notes. It takes 3 months (REAL months not in-game) to be HALF the price of the original. Read the patch notes before trying to blindly insult everyone here who have been giving solid reasons to being upset.

This is all a trap ploy from SE. If you're a legit big FC who manages to get one of these expensive ass plots, then expect it to be seized and investigated for months. Prices will slowly come down so I'd wait. The 14% is an error as are numerous things within the patch notes(Typos etc) Numbers have distorted our view on things. First off if everything was made easy to obtain we would have more bs posts of:

"GOT MY FC HOUSING FINISHED ALL EXTREME MODES MAX GEAR ON DAY 1 WHAT DO I DO NOW, UNSUBBBED THANKS SE THANKS OBAMA"

So yah we need to earn our houses for the coming months, Moogle forbid we need to spend time with our FC to earn more money to get a small plot. Want something big right off the bat well to bad. Like I said earlier if you're an RMT buyer or an actual Legit player/FC with money I would honestly wait before buying something really expensive but I know I'll be seeing:

"SE Seized/FC House Taken Away" Followed by OP bullshit.

Better get the popcorn ready.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

This is just stupid lol. not even interested in the least anymore.

SE needs to stop misleading people. remember when they said it would take 3-4 players or so to combine their Gil that they got along the way going from lv1-50? dang, I must have missed out somewhere!

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Technically they didn't lie, houses will be in the hundreds of thousands, they're just deceptive bastards and didn't mention anything of 8 million dollar plots ofr the smallest available