Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[Tamarsamar]

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I'm sure with enough time, you'll formulate and fabricate in your mind that I have also single-handedly wronged everyone on every topic ever created in the history of every message board there ever was. You have a wonderfully imaginative thinker there, and should look into writing kid books.

That put a grin on my face. You're almost adorable when you're so wrong and self-righteous.

[kingfury]

Thanks, but since you're a taru, you easily beat me out in cuteness when you're playing that role ^^

[Tamarsamar]

Thanks, but since you're a taru, you easily beat me out in cuteness when you're playing that role ^^

Hah! Seems like you don't surpass the elvaan in lack of wit and humility after all!

I'll grant you the question "is it you, or is it me?" But you have to remember that over the duration of this thread, there have also been questions of "is it you, or is it Mrbeanman?" "Is it you, or is it TybudX?" "Is it you, or is it Zyeriis?" And so on. You yourself have admitted to being a horribly simple person, and it's quite obvious that, in spite of however many ways all the rest of us try to explain it to you, you quite simply have no idea what you're talking about.

When it's you against the world, apply Occum's razor and take the simplest option that, since you don't really know what you're talking about, and everybody else seems against you, it's best to accept that you are therefore most incredibly likely to be wrong. You'll save yourself 10 pages of time and effort that way if you do so next time.

[kingfury]

Well that's a fair question...

I won't use any analogies this time to make sure I'm coming through clear. I think my biggest mistake in this thread, besides trying to argue with closed-minded folks, was trying to toss out possible increased values to enhance Full Break based on the "Current" in-game methods of calculating the ws's effectiveness. I'm asking for enhancements and a "reworking" of the very system that governs how the ws's effectiveness is calculated, so that was my mistake and I have to apologize for tossing it out there.

Over the course of the thread, however, I've tried to focus less on the current known calculations since there's nothing to really argue in regards to trying to enhance the ws through the current system(as in you can't fix the issue through the current systems' mechanics), and more on the problems' potential to revolutionize the aspects of enfeebling ws's and JA's (angon, Dia, feint, and tomahawk, etc.) game wide. If you can "adjust" or "reconfigure" the aspects of the current system that is causing these things to appear as weak and fruitless to the players, based on the concept of growing ever more powerful as we rise in level, a possible new and more balanced system could be born from it.

Unfortunately, once people get ahold of a concept such as, "But you just don't get it! Nothing can be done to improve this ws! NOTHING!!", it's kind've hard drive a point such as "progression" home. I'll just say, since I don't think I've said this yet(or at least in these words...I'll have to go back and check), that for the record, each one of you are right to say that based on the current battle system, it would be near impossible to enhance the enfeebling ws's in question to the point I'm suggesting. Which is a point, by the way, that is not to make it down play any other enfeebling method in the game but rather additionally bolster those other methods through it's revamping. Which is why I'm asking for such a reworking that would possibly IMPROVE the system for all.

As it stands, I am by far, not the only person that views these ws's as weak and a waist of TP, so I hope that I can be absolved from sounding like I'm the only person effected by it or that wants to see it enhanced. Am I "wrong" for wanting to have a more effective ws? Is any player wrong for wanting to see improvements to this game? If you suggested change to a current in-game system based on nothing except "what you would like to see changed", does that make you wrong? My simple answer would be no. I know there are systems in place that make the game function the way it does, but SE asked us for feedback to those systems, and that's all I'm doing. My feedback on THIS particular topic is GA has 4 ws's sitting in it's ws list that are pretty weak in terms of effectiveness, and I would like to see some enhancements of some kind to improve them. That's all.

[TybudX]

I'll make this simple.

Want to see the full effect of Armor Break? You need to fight a mob with 1600 defense. Most mobs are around 350-400, with some HNMs having upwards of 800 or so.

Want to see the full effect of Shield Break? You need to fight mobs with higher evasion. A lot higher than what is currently out there.

It isn't the design of the WSs at fault. In order for them to be good, SE needs to make mobs that nobody would ever consider fun. Would you really like to farm some mob with 1600 defense? Or fight a mob that you could barely break 20% hit rate on, even with sushi? No, it would suck, it would take all day to do anything, just so you can have your special WSs and be able to see your big numbers. Meanwhile the rest of the player population would be wondering why SE took a giant leap back into the stone age.

edit - And yes, you are arrogant. You assume that your idea has some sort of merit, despite the fact that you know nothing about how the game is coded. You assume SE should change the entire basis of the code for your personal gain. You maintain this stance despite several people explaining to you why what you are asking for can't work. You toss patronizing language and symbols at other posters as if to say that they just aren't smart enough to know what you are talking about. I'd say that's arrogant. You're also that other term you used, what was it? Oh, retarded.

[Tamarsamar]

kingfury: you know what made the "gyms" thread "decent?" You describe it on a bleeding edge of detail, complete with pictures! Furthermore, it served to address a popular problem that players are having, that being lacking a decent or even fun method of gaining skillups.

This thread, however? You're basically asking "oh, could you please magically somehow make my Great Axe Weapon Skills 'look' better, and possibly some other enfeebling-style things too maybe?" And nobody needs or even wants that.

Again: One dev comment doesn't make every cussing thing from your head in to solid gold all of a sudden. See that it's not "everybody else" that's being "closed-minded," and get over yourself already. Please.

[kingfury]

I'll make this simple.
Want to see the full effect of Armor Break? You need to fight a mob with 1600 defense. Most mobs are around 350-400, with some HNMs having upwards of 800 or so.
Want to see the full effect of Shield Break? You need to fight mobs with higher evasion. A lot higher than what is currently out there.
It isn't the design of the WSs at fault. In order for them to be good, SE needs to make mobs that nobody would ever consider fun. Would you really like to farm some mob with 1600 defense? Or fight a mob that you could barely break 20% hit rate on, even with sushi? No, it would suck, it would take all day to do anything, just so you can have your special WSs and be able to see your big numbers. Meanwhile the rest of the player population would be wondering why SE took a giant leap back into the stone age.
edit - And yes, you are arrogant. You assume that your idea has some sort of merit, despite the fact that you know nothing about how the game is coded. You assume SE should change the entire basis of the code for your personal gain. You maintain this stance despite several people explaining to you why what you are asking for can't work. You toss patronizing language and symbols at other posters as if to say that they just aren't smart enough to know what you are talking about. I'd say that's arrogant. You're also that other term you used, what was it? Oh, retarded.

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OMG... I-I... I mean... there are just no words... Y-You seriously have to be kidding me here. You honestly have the nerve to call me retarded after you've just blatantly validated the very point I've been making all along with clear examples and nice little numbers to boot? I feel strangely glad that you've stayed along talking with me all this time all of a sudden, but completely baffled at the same time. I'll help you see what I'm talking about by summing up what you just posted here. Then I'll repeat it, so you really can grasp what just happened.

Ok... The point of this thread is to ask the Dev Team to rework the ws's in question since their worth at the moment is very hard to validate with the current systems that govern it's effectiveness.

We've gone back and forth throughout this thread with each other about whether or not I was insane for asking such a thing in the 1st place since you believe the battle system is working fine the way it is. No need to change anything for my silly wants to see visible improves to the ws's.

Now stay with me here... What you've just elegantly posted above is this:
In order to make these Break weapon skills have any worth what so ever, SE would have to introduce ridiculously, imbalanced and broken enemies to the game for them to function at a level in which players could actually notice their effects taking place.

One more time:
In order to make these Break weapon skills have any worth what so ever, SE would have to introduce ridiculously, imbalanced and broken enemies to the game for them to function at a level in which players could actually notice their effects taking place....

Sir, you've just unknowingly agreed with me and proved my point to be true all in one post. That at it's current functioning, these ws's will never be of any use within the current system of things because how they are coded since we currently don't even have monsters, let alone HNMs, that would allow players to even notice the intended effects of them in-game. You've single-handedly giving "merit" to my suggestion all in one swoop. So in essence, I guess now we're both "arrogant" since we both agree and understand that the current code in place would have to warrant broken enemies into the game for these battle intended ws's to function as intended, right? Nice. There should probably be something done to address this very fact though... I dunno, maybe a revamp of some sort to the code... hmmm.

I'm glad you know as much as you do about how the game is coded eh, otherwise we could have never reached this shared understanding /hurray

Now as a disclaimer, I'm aware of this never ending loop-like trend that's occurring at this point. No matter how clearly I, or anyone else for that matter, make this point plain for you to see and understand, you'll just rummage through it and fire back with more "You're dumb/arrogant and I'm smart" mess in order to make yourself feel like the victor for some reason I can't begin to understand. After such a ground breaking post from you, I would like to extend my virtual handshake to you and end on a good note. I'll just wait to hopefully hear back from the Community Reps to see whether my suggestion is possible or not from this point. No further grade school level name calling from you is necessary moving forward. Thanks for the chat. /wave

[kingfury]

kingfury: you know what made the "gyms" thread "decent?" You describe it on a bleeding edge of detail, complete with pictures! Furthermore, it served to address a popular problem that players are having, that being lacking a decent or even fun method of gaining skillups.
This thread, however? You're basically asking "oh, could you please magically somehow make my Great Axe Weapon Skills 'look' better, and possibly some other enfeebling-style things too maybe?" And nobody needs or even wants that.
Again: One dev comment doesn't make every cussing thing from your head in to solid gold all of a sudden. See that it's not "everybody else" that's being "closed-minded," and get over yourself already. Please.

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^^ Well sorry to disappoint you lol, but my Gyms post had very visual themes and concepts that warranted some extra visual aid and detailed descriptions. All of which had nothing to do with recoding of current system codes of course lol. There's not much to illustrate in regards to a "reworking of the ws's code" suggestion unless you would like to see an illustration of the reduced attack damage numbers displayed over a players head ^^ Hey if it would help explain my suggestion better for ya, I'll get right on that lol /

In regards to whether folks would need or use these ws's should they be made to function in a way that could be noticed by players during battle, ask a RDM if they use Dia III that often. Then ask them why. If not for the reasons of the quoted -15% in DEF, since that can barely be noticed, I'm sure it's for the very noticeable Damage over time which can EASILY be noticed once landed. They can kill NM's with it and all that, right? So yeah, if the effects of the Break ws's in question were indeed noticeable and effective, players would use them all the time. Well, players that know how to use battle strategies and such. Players want ws's, JA's, spells, JT's, etc. that they can see works once these things are activated.

Ahhh, and there you go fantasizing again >< I don't post with such things on my mind Tamar, I just post about things that I have concerns about and things that I would like to see addressed. I'm going to draw a Taru based on you that wears a T-shirt with the word "Hater" printed on it if you keep coming up with this kind of stuff for no apparent reason ^^ And yes, he will have Tamarsamar hovering over his head.

[noodles355]

Uh, wut?

Yeah, for some reason my brain melted and I was concidering defence down as physical damage taken+. Serves me right for posting drunk.

[TybudX]

It's ok, I actually had to open wiki to see if I was being wooshed or not. It's been so long since I've looked at the formulas I wasn't sure if I was remembering them correctly.

And kingfury. I just don't know. The reason you are feeling completely baffled is because you are an idiot. I have been trying to show you in simple terms why adjusting the break skills can't work. Are you seriously trying to turn the points I brought up around on me when you had zero comprehension of what I was even talking about before I raised them?

Where did you ever suggest making all mobs IT+++++? Are you now saying that's a reasonable solution to what (only) you see as a problem?

No, all I see is you clinging to your stupid notion that you should be able to eyeball some super jump in damage when you use your uber break weapon skills. I explained why you don't see it, so you suggest changing the formulas for combat... so you can see more damage!

I just want you to answer one question. Lets say SE follows your example, and removes the caps on cRatio and hit rate. When you have 100% accuracy, drop your Shield Break II, and still can't see that extra 50% hit rate you should have gotten, will you expect SE to change the laws of physics for you?