Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[kingfury]

Faux-happiness is irritating.

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I agree, but so is a group of salty folks with a lack of humor >< lol I gotta break the repetitive "I'M MAD AT YOU!" tone somehow right? ^^

Plus, I'm not angry at anyone on this thread. I wouldn't dare invest "heavy" emotion on such a thing as a suggestion board ^^ The level of seriousness throughout this thread is no different from what I've dealt with in-game for years. Folks throw temper tantrums all day, every day inside FFXI when they don't agree with you. It's the status quo it seems for most folks to get to the "name calling", "belittling", "Calling you crazy for daring to think outside the box" I've found, so I'm pretty use to this sort of thing. At the end of the day, we're having a "so called" debate over an online game. Seriously losing your giblets over such a thing really isn't worth it. Even the weak attacks tossed at me are taken with humorous tone.

I'm not faking happiness at all, so by all means, no need to ruin your day over anything posted here. ^^/

Though it is pretty sad when you can type (*JOKING TONE*) and people still twist their panties >< lol

[Arcon]

All the flame aside, I can understand the desire for improving useless WS. After all, no one uses them like they are now, so why are they even in the game?

Personally I had a hard time wrapping my head around this argument, because I don't like "idle" content, content that is just there but serves no purpose. However, that content is what makes up 95% of the game. And if you think about it, look at the sheer amount of content the game has right now. This extends far beyond weapon skills. Gear is probably the best/worst example of how this imbalance has progressed.

Why don't you use level 7 leather gear at level 75+? Because there's better options. Tons and tons of better options. And there's tons and tons of better options than those aforementioned better options. I'd like to say that 90% of all gear in the game is obsolete. And know what? It's at lower levels too. There's both armor and weapons that simply aren't worth getting, even at their appropriate levels.

What about spells? Why don't high level BLMs don't use Stone II anymore? Zones, why is no one going to Carpenter's Landing or Dangruf Wadi?

The list goes on and on. And it's the exact same thing here. Some WS are meant to be better than others. At some point, WS are simply outdated. And know what? Compared to other items mentioned before, these WS aren't even that useless. Maybe with the way the game currently plays, but the effects of these WS are based on the number of people an in alliance. There's always one WAR who is simply subpar. Their Raging Rushes don't exceed 600 damage, they whiff for 80% of the time and they are slow to mele/engage. They are often better off using a Break WS than actually trying to deal damage themselves. And good WARs? Simply ignore those WS, they are outdated. They already have plenty of useful WS, compared to other jobs, Raging Rush, King's Justice and Steel Cyclone all have a justification to be used. And now Ukko's Fury dominates them all.

The sooner you wrap your head around the fact that some things are meant to die, the better. Because it's unrealistic the opposite will happen. Why should all WS be good in the first place? Which one would you use? You want a different WS for all two hundred different situations? It's simply not meant to be.

[kingfury]

@ Arcon: Now here's a valid debate that's devoid of the crap, so thanks for the breath of fresh air.

I can see your points, and you make a good argument with them, but lets look at it another way for second. Yes, you're absolutely correct that Items, Food, Weapons, and most of all Gear should in fact fit inside the logic "that some things are eventually meant to die or become outdated". These things are satellite concepts to the one true scaleable and growing theme inside this game which happens to be "The Player". Even though the Devs are attempting to change that to some degree with Synergy Augments soon, and has done a GREAT job with weapons via the Trial of the Magians system, the fact will remain true, that far superior options are of course awaiting us as time goes on.

But look back to the "ever growing and evolving Player". Job abilities, Spells, and weapon skills really shouldn't fit in the same category as the above mentioned items in my opinion. I believe they should be just as scaleable and ever-growing as we are because they are tied to our growth as players. Players don't receive new weapons/gear once they've leveled up or acquired enough skill using a weapon, but they do receive new weapon skills and job abilities. It's not that they can't be made to be scaleable. With the similar logic of what was put into the Trial of the Magians system, technically speaking the Devs could /toss out things like spell tiers all together and have stuff like "STONE(+1-6)", and "CURE(+1-6)" in an effort to make such things scaleable as we increase in level and grow more powerful. The "Merit Point System" was in essence a very simplified Trial of the Magian system for JA's if you think about it. You had to go out and do stuff (gain exp) to then return to the system and "turn in" your required currency (merit points) to improve your JA's. So if you see it as it would be seen via the Trial of the Magians system, it would look like "Berserk+2" and "Double Attack+5" and so on. One of the biggest problems with the Merit Point system in fact was that we didn't get to pick from a list of all our abilities when deciding which JA we wanted to enhance. The same goes for the TotM weapons. The Devs decided for us.

Take Berserk for instance. It's a level 15 JA that still has use at level 90. That's scaleability right there lol, and it's as it should be as far as I'm concerned. Weaponskills should be just as scaleable right? Not to say that one ws is "more useful" than the other, cause that would warrant change to the game if things are non useful, but rather have "different uses" during battle.

A good WAR, or player for that matter, understands both offense and defense in this game and how to balance both based on the situation in front of them. Trying to run in and do high amounts of damage ALL the time for every situation is a quick way of getting yourself K.O.'d most of the time. Strategy is what is bred from our weapon skills and Job abilities. Now imagine for a moment that the Break ws's used on GA were just as effective now at lvl 90 as they were the day a player received them. Wouldn't that breed more strategy during battle vs trying to only do the most melee damage? As you know, some monsters in this game just don't accept that type of strategy.

In terms of distinguishing which ws deals the most damage over another, this too bothers me to some extent. Well it bothers a LOT of players in fact lol. Just look at the changes that are about to made to Relics based on just such a debate. It makes no sense that ws's should be outdated as we rise in skill levels and power, and frankly it pissed those people off that they worked their butts of to achieve these weapons and ws's only to find they are poop compared to new weapon skills. So what did SE do? They listened! They agreed that this should not be the case, and are making the effort to CHANGE the current coding around to balance it out. I'm suggesting such change based on the same principles towards these Break weapon skills.

If it sounds crazy to others, it's just because it's too far out of the box for them to understand that I'm simply asking for balanced natural progression of the abilities we receive whether early on at low levels or in upcoming version updates. Just like Relic ws's, I believe these beginning ws's should follow the same suit of scaleability as our JA's.

Again thanks for posting a valid argument devoid of the kiddy crap. /salute

[Eeek]

Kingfury, here's the deal...

I, along with many other people here, have participated in brainstorming sessions in our academic and professional lives. Tossing out bad ideas is part of the process - silly, terrible, improbable, and infeasible ideas tend to be sparks for good ideas. It's important, however, to assess and separate the ideas objectively and without passion. No one respects or thinks highly of the person who goes to the mat tirelessly defending every idea, good and bad. It bogs down the process.

While I believe it's ultimately unnecessary, the "Gyms of Vana'diel" concept was a decently good idea. It remains to be seen whether or not that concept will see implementation into FFXI in one form or another, but it wouldn't surprise me to see implemented later on in the year.

Here's the problem though: you passionately defend every one of your ideas as if they're as good as the "Gyms of Vana'diel" concept. Here's the naked truth - both the Evolith concepts and the overpowered Great Axe Weaponskills concepts are bad ideas, but you seem unable to differentiate between your good and bad concepts. You adamantly defend all of them - without acknowledging any valid criticisms. What the rest of us view as valid criticisms you view as personal attacks, and that's just not the case. It's counterproductive.

Here's an example:

On the forum's first day, I created a (lulzy) thread in the Black Mage forum: "Job Trait: Auto-Refresh?" In the OP, I argued that Black Mages still suffered from MP problems outside of Abyssea, and that we could use an Auto-Refresh Job Trait to address the problem. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but other posters rightfully disagreed with me and shot down my bad idea.

But...

My bad idea sparked a good idea from another poster! In the thread's second post, Teakwood (along with other posters) argued that /RDM and several new pieces of Refresh gear, MP wasn't nearly the problem that it used to be. He also mentioned something I did not know: all mobs in FFXIV have MP pool for mages to Aspir. He also, correctly, made the distinction between playing BLM around aspirable mobs and non-aspirable mobs and that they're completely different ballgames.

From my bad idea sprung Teakwood's good idea: instead of tacking an Auto-Refresh Job Trait on to BLM, would it be possible to adjust FFXI mobs as to give all of them MP pools? Instead of Auto-Refresh, BLMs could instead make more use of their Aspir spells. This kind of adjustment would also benefit mages other than BLM. I know I'd love to be surrounded by Aspirable mobs at all times!

Kingfury, intelligent posters here will not take you seriously again until you're able let your bad ideas go and leave them to rest. You need to be able to differentiate between good and bad concepts, and you need to be able to identify, and even expand upon, good ideas that evolve from the ashes of your bad ideas. It's perfectly natural, professional, and people would respect you more.

And lastly, your signature does you no favors. It's cocky and arrogant. You're no more a developer than the rest of us.

[kingfury]

@ Eeek: You started okay with this post, but your last line reduced you back to having the "Crabs in the bucket" mentality sense my signature was never(and still isn't) the topic of this thread.

Ok, just so you know, Your "opinion" of my suggestion does not equate to a "Valid Criticism". Understand? Trying to argue your opinion as if it's the final say so does not help to sway me on my opinion. I hear your opinions and give my responses based on my opinions. Make sense?

I wouldn't say you had a "Bad Idea" so much as I would say you were unknowledgeable about what you were suggesting. The posters of that thread you created simply educated you on things you didn't understand. In my case, I KNOW GA's break ws's are terribly inefficient through using them over, and over, and over, and over through the years. I'm not unknowledgeable of that fact at all, so I don't have a "Bad Idea" in regards to suggesting improvements to the ws. Make sense?

I won't address the signature dribble anymore at this point. It's bred from an insecure mentality and really shouldn't be fed anymore.

[kingfury]

Ughh >< none taken. No amount of words from me can help change the minds of people that choose to not understand /stagger

[Eeek]

Ughh >< none taken. No amount of words from me can help change the minds of people that choose to not understand /stagger

Oh come on! This is totally the pot calling the kettle black.

I wouldn't say you had a "Bad Idea" so much as I would say you were unknowledgeable about what you were suggesting. The posters of that thread you created simply educated you on things you didn't understand.

Woah! You night want to step back, calm yourself, take your foot out of your mouth, and take a look around. Look at my sig. I've been playing BLM for years. Feel free to look up my FFXIAH profile. BLM is there as clear as day.

I see from your profile that your BLM is level 2. Unless you're more knowledgeable about game mechanics than you let on, you have no grounds for calling me out in such a clumsy manner. I'm not foolish enough to claim my BLM as among the best in Vana'diel, much less my own world, but to say that my BLM is anything other than solid would reek of so strongly of false humility as to insult the intelligence of everyone around me.

I won't address the signature dribble anymore at this point. It's bred from an insecure mentality and really shouldn't be fed anymore.

Yes, it should be addressed, and I'll tell you why. It's symbolic of a descent into smarmy douchebaggery.

Your first impression here was a good one. You came off as genuinely nice, eager, and passionate about the game. People genuinely felt good for you wne your idea was the first, if I recall correctly, to see recognition from the Community Team and appear on the Twitter feed. In a sense, it was a victory for all of us players after years of stone silence from SE.

Then the sig appeared. As did subsequent ideas.

That little nod of recognition changed you. No longer humble and genuinely nice, you arrogantly treated your concepts as if they were gold. You passionately and endlessly attacked anyone who disagreed with your concepts or supporting arguments. You lapped up the adoration of your fans while casually dismissing any criticism.

You are Icarus, and you're flying too close to the Sun. Myself, along with other posters, are trying to help you and pull you back from the brink of self-destruction, but in light of our concern, all you do is slap us in the face with arrogant insults claiming that we're "unknowledgeable about what [we were] suggesting" and that our concerns and criticisms are "bred from an insecure mentality."

I'm not quoting those phrases for emphasis. I'm literally quoting your words.

Look, we all want to like the seemingly nice, exuberant Galka with a head full of ideas, but that little nod of recognition from SE has taken a dark toll over the past weeks. You've fallen from "seemingly nice, exuberant Galka with a head full of ideas," to "smarmy douchebag with the overbearing sig," and now you're honestly descending into Krystal/Naturesbeckles territory. We're trying to help pull you back, because we don't want that little recognition from SE to turn you from a nice Galka into a total joke of a poster.

If you embrace the Krystal/Naturesbeckles mentality, then we can never take one of you concepts seriously ever again. All your future threads will be trolled, moderated to hell, and ultimately locked. And that would be a shame.

You used to be such a nice poster.

[kingfury]

@Eeek:
Eeek, show me ONE post where you are trying to say anything constructive to me. Put the link here so I can go back over it and read it twice. You're very 1st post to me had nothing in regards to a "helping tone".

I don't respond nicely to all attacking post if that's what you're asking me to do. I defend myself where I see the need to do so, but I've never reached the degrading level that you and the pack of flamers on this thread have reached when trying to defend their opinions.

And yes, you're quoting what I posted, all while cutting and pasting two separate points together in an effort to validate your point. It's like what the media does everyday. Here, let me fix it back for you right quick:

-The "being unknowledgeable about what you were posting" was in regards to your reference to your BLM refresh thread.
-The "bred from insecure mentality" was in response to your comment about my signature.

And yet you want me to respond in a "happy friendly nature" to your post when you are making a sport out of misconstruing just about 99.99% of the things I post.

If I'm supportive of my posted suggestions, it's because I honestly believe they would be nice additions to the game. Why else would I take time to post them to the Dev Team if I didn't? Everyone is going to have their opinions about ideas posted, but that doesn't make their opinions any better than yours. Ultimately, the Devs have the final say so on these boards to whether or not suggestions can be worth the trouble of implementing, so flame as much you like, you're not the only intended audience to each suggestion posted here.

I can't believe I'm doing this. /sigh For the umteenth time, the feedback I received didn't promote me to create my signature, the fact that I worked on the damn post for weeks creating original artwork and ideas with my own two hands is what did. Who are you to tell me that I shouldn't be proud of the work and time I invested into the post and create a signature to pay tribute to finishing the concept? See what I'm saying? Even after explaining my reasons before, like now, there's nothing more I can say to help you or anyone else see it for what it is. If you already made up in your mind that it's "arrogant" or "gloating" in nature wth else do you want me to say? lol /sigh I know exactly why I made the darn thing, so just because you've formulated your own beliefs as to why it's there means little in hindsight of the truth.

[Eeek]

You went full Krystal, man. Never go full Krystal.

[kingfury]

lol find me a post of yours that's constructive before you pin me with that ^^

Now it genuinely saddens me that you sound as if everything I just said went right over your head

If you want to see a happy poster in me, open your mind to what I'm saying. You don't have to like what I'm saying, but at least show me that you are listening to the clear english being typed. I read each line of your post and respond accordingly, hell I just had to fix part of yours Eeek! lol

I'm a very pleasant fellow, just not to flamers and close-minded people that try to belittle others all day.
I've explained multiple time now why I think the Break ws's could use some improvement, only to be met with flamed opinions that "I'm an idiot" or "retarded" because I honestly believe it can be done correctly should the Devs take the time to work on it.

Even off topic stuff like my signature. Even after explaining multiple times as to why I chose to put it there, you're still firing mess that it "comes off as this and that".

I've only been on these boards for so long Eeek(/glances over at my join date), so I find it a little funny when you say, "You use to be such a nice poster" lol. But in this thread alone, I've commended those very flamers that have doubled back after posting completely non related posts and in fact given feedback to the topic at hand. Yeah, I'm right up there with Hitler with that kind of stuff >.> /stagger ^^