Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[kingfury]

Kingfury, your reply to me is 6 pages back, but I dont camp the forums to I was unable to replay immidately to your response.
My problem is not with you wanting to buff warrior. My problem is your suggestions without any actual prior thought to your suggestions in regards to any form of game balance. As I stated, a 37.5% increase is the same as giving every DD in the party/alliance a +60% Attack buff. That;s not huge, that's broken.

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I gotta go out now, but I'll get back to your response when I'm back in front of my screen again. Do me a favor though and break down where you're are getting the equation for your comment Noodles if you don't mind. Thanks.

[Mirage]

People don't really see a noticable increase in attack speed from just 10% haste either, does that mean you shouldn't use any sort of haste until you can have 40% haste all the time?

[kingfury]

I think that asking a WAR to sacrifice it's hardest hitting abilty (aka Weapon skill) to enfeeble a mob isn't the way to go.
If you want them to be used just make them Job abiltys but rememeber they shouldn't take the limelight from Angon or Feint

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Not as they are now, no, so I'd agree with you on that currently. If in fact GA's Breaks were strong enough effect wise, however, it would become a new battle tactic that would indeed warrant using before even the user themselves pop a ws, let alone other DD's in the party.

I say improve both Angon and Feint as well as Tomahawk moving forward to higher levels since they will be shoved into the corner of peoples mog house (if not already) after each passing update unless their effectiveness is addressed.

[kingfury]

People don't really see a noticable increase in attack speed from just 10% haste either, does that mean you shouldn't use any sort of haste until you can have 40% haste all the time?

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Well my point is shouldn't they see some noticeable increase? Even if it's like 1-2 seconds in-between a swing. I don't want to fight all calculations in this game, but there are tons of them that just don't make sense and should be addressed is all. ^^

But sense this is a ws we're talking about, TP is about the only modifier listed on the ws description, and it's in regards to duration. The effectiveness or "visible" effects of it working shouldn't be something that a players "wonders if it's working or not".

[TybudX]

The answer is yes and no. Some things you are going to notice, just because of how they work in game. You will notice when your hit rate goes up by 20% (Shield Break, eva-40) because of where it is calculated in the damage formula. You won't notice other things as easily, like -25% att, because it's a factor in a larger equation. Whether *you* specifically can see the effect or not has no bearing on how good the effect actually is. This is a game of small percentages, where the difference between top tier and (above) average is very slight. What you are suggesting is that anything that isn't glaringly visible to the naked and untrained eye isn't effective... welcome to 2004, BG wants your Turban back. You don't deserve it, you can wear gear with Slow on it, and hit harder. I mean, you can't visibly see the difference between -5% attack speed and +5% attack speed, but 10 STR? That's going to make you hit harder, amirite?

Yeah, some things are best left to a parser.

Also, you are completely ignoring what I said about your att and hit rate being so high that you will barely gain anything from using a break WS... this will not change by adding more potency, once you have reached the cap, you are done. no more benefit. I would argue that Weapon Break is the most useful of the break WSs for WAR right now, since duoing is so popular, and WAR still subs SAM. Lowering enemy attack by 25% is almost guaranteed to result in at least 25% less physical damage taken, which combined with a decent pdt set would be a huge boost to WARs' tanking ability. You seem to scoff at pdt taken- gear, though. Wearing a reasonable build with 20% in it, you can't see the difference in your chat log? You can't see a removing 1 in 5 of a mob's attacks, the same as the mob missing you 20% of the time?

Also. What. The. Hell. There are tons of calculations in this game that just don't make sense to you? They should be "addressed"? I take it back. You are arrogant. It took me all of an afternoon to research damage calculations for this game years ago. I am quite possibly the slowest math-tard on the face of the Earth. What I learned is that SE somehow managed to develop an elegant, simple way to deal with combat in FFXI. Very simple. You think that a well thought out, balanced, scaling system needs to be "addressed"? Like ****. Take 3 hours to learn what you are actually asking, instead of going on about how unfiar the game design is because you can't see some huge number on your screen.

[Corwin]

I had a good response but after I kept getting a gag reflex at terrible emote spam and fuzzy math skills I realized it would've been a waste of time.

[noodles355]

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I gotta go out now, but I'll get back to your response when I'm back in front of my screen again. Do me a favor though and break down where you're are getting the equation for your comment Noodles if you don't mind. Thanks.

My quoted number comes from a simple maths equation:
a 37.5% decrease in an enemy's defence can be regarded as multiplying the enemies defence by 0.625. When we look at gear and decide on which pieces will be the most effective we look at the DoT increase of each individual stat, breaking them down into % increases so they can be equally compared. This is how we breakdown different DD stats like Double Attack, Haste, Accuracy, Attack, Etc etc into a single unit of data that we can compare and thus decide the most effective piece of equipment for the job. (If you want, I can provide a mathy example)

Taking the enemy's defence from 100% (normal) to 62.5% (what it would be after recieving a 37.5% defence down ability (100-37.5=62.5)) would be an increase to my DoT of: 100/62.5 = 1.6 = 160% increase to my DoT. This is where I pulled that 60% number from. Stating it's like giving a 60% attack buff was slightly inaccurate due to diminishing returns, but going into too much detail would alieanate casual players who don't care about maths!

[Mirage]

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Well my point is shouldn't they see some noticeable increase? Even if it's like 1-2 seconds in-between a swing. I don't want to fight all calculations in this game, but there are tons of them that just don't make sense and should be addressed is all. ^^

No, because a 2 second decrease in delay is like 20% haste (assuming a... 400ish delay already?). Of course 10% haste shouldn't be 20%, are you crazy?

[TybudX]

Going with what Noodles just said... it's highly unlikely that any DD would ever see the full benefit of a 60% increase in attack. If such a buff were to exist it would necessitate DDs completely reworking their gear and food choices to not include attack. That pretty much leaves... nothing. Not a damn thing for most DDs to use for food, and a vast swath of gear rendered useless, all by one WS.

[noodles355]

Not quite,
Attack+ has a cap, eventually you will reach this. Defence Down effects for all intents and purposes don't (well, they will, but you can't get an enemy's defence lower enough for it to cap, so it's irrelevant). Even if you were completely Attack capped, a defence down effect would still increase your damage. In this case by roughly 60%. I say roughly because it depends on it's stacking with any other defence down effect, but as most do not stack (see angon and acid bolts) it's fairly reasonable to just state 60% for simplicity.