Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[TybudX]

Uh, wut? Defense down, while not capping, does effect the relative cap for attack, when considering ratio. Once you have capped cRatio, all lowering defense does is lower the amount of attack needed to cap.

Two handed weapon vs. mob of equal level with 200 defense. You would need 440 attack to have capped pDIF. If you lowered the mob's defense by 25%, to 150, it would only take 330 attack.

[kingfury]

The answer is yes and no. Some things you are going to notice, just because of how they work in game. You will notice when your hit rate goes up by 20% (Shield Break, eva-40) because of where it is calculated in the damage formula. You won't notice other things as easily, like -25% att, because it's a factor in a larger equation. Whether *you* specifically can see the effect or not has no bearing on how good the effect actually is. This is a game of small percentages, where the difference between top tier and (above) average is very slight. What you are suggesting is that anything that isn't glaringly visible to the naked and untrained eye isn't effective... welcome to 2004, BG wants your Turban back. You don't deserve it, you can wear gear with Slow on it, and hit harder. I mean, you can't visibly see the difference between -5% attack speed and +5% attack speed, but 10 STR? That's going to make you hit harder, amirite?
Yeah, some things are best left to a parser.
Also, you are completely ignoring what I said about your att and hit rate being so high that you will barely gain anything from using a break WS... this will not change by adding more potency, once you have reached the cap, you are done. no more benefit. I would argue that Weapon Break is the most useful of the break WSs for WAR right now, since duoing is so popular, and WAR still subs SAM. Lowering enemy attack by 25% is almost guaranteed to result in at least 25% less physical damage taken, which combined with a decent pdt set would be a huge boost to WARs' tanking ability. You seem to scoff at pdt taken- gear, though. Wearing a reasonable build with 20% in it, you can't see the difference in your chat log? You can't see a removing 1 in 5 of a mob's attacks, the same as the mob missing you 20% of the time?
Also. What. The. Hell. There are tons of calculations in this game that just don't make sense to you? They should be "addressed"? I take it back. You are arrogant. It took me all of an afternoon to research damage calculations for this game years ago. I am quite possibly the slowest math-tard on the face of the Earth. What I learned is that SE somehow managed to develop an elegant, simple way to deal with combat in FFXI. Very simple. You think that a well thought out, balanced, scaling system needs to be "addressed"? Like ****. Take 3 hours to learn what you are actually asking, instead of going on about how unfiar the game design is because you can't see some huge number on your screen.

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I heard what you said earlier about all those nice facts about caps and such, but I have to keep saying that whatever is in the current code that's preventing me from seeing this ws as something noticeably effective should be adjusted so that I can see it. Regardless of the wonderful math in place, suggesting a more visible effect from the ws so it could be used more frequently is all I'm asking for. I never said it has to be over the top, just substantial enough to see the difference once the ws has been used. That's the bottom line.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] I've spent 8 years trying to understand this ever changing game that even SE has had to admit to certain mistakes they've made in certain systems, so elegant wouldn't really be the best word in describing the battle system. It is a masterpiece of programing, but like all games of this sort, it's an ever changing work in progress. In case you've been under a rock, SE has had to readjust the inner workings of nearly every in-game mechanic present in this game at least once since the game was released, so it's not "Arrogant" to suggest improvement to a damn enfeebling ws. It would be arrogant if said something like, "I'm a newly graduated game designer, and I can easily create a better enfeebling system than what SE has with my eyes close! They suck, and I'm great so suck it!" but I'm saying nothing of the sort. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Nothing's arrogant about what I'm suggesting, so don't put words in my mouth. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Read my post again if you need to recap. I said I'm not for imbalance, that the change doesn't need to be over powered just noticeable, that such a change would take testing and feedback. That's what I've said throughout the post.

[TybudX]

I never said it has to be over the top, just substantial enough to see the difference once the ws has been used. That's the bottom line.

You aren't getting it. Plain and simple. You will never be able to see a substantial difference when one of these WSs has been used, unless somebody in your party is so lacking tat they can make use of 20% hit rate, or 25% attack. The only reasonable thing SE can do to make it more clear to you is change the chat log to reference when the WS break effect is taking place, and when it is wearing off. There is absolutely no reason for SE to change basic game code, fundamental game code, so that people like you can see tiny changes in damage like a flashing red neon sign. Get over it. It might be simple, but ti isn't 1 + 1. If you aren't smart enough to understand that, tough ****ing luck. I suggest you take up slot machines, I hear they are plenty colourful just for special cases like you.

edit - And again: you have zero understanding of what you are asking for. None.Go spend some time learning the game mechanics on wiki, then come back here and defend your ridiculous suggestions. Get butthurt asking for the least thought out 'buffs' to a job that have ever been suggested.

Get this through your ****ing skull: NO AMOUNT OF BUFF WILL EVER MAKE A GREAT AXE BREAK WS GOOD. EVER. The absolute best effect they have, def-, generally has zero ZERO zero effect on a WARs damage. ****ing zero. None.

You are flat out suggesting that SE render the entire basis of combat math obsolete so that you can ****ing see a difference in damage in your chat log. YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT YOUR RETARDED IDEA IS BETTER THAN WHAT SE HAS BEEN DOING FOR 8 YEARS+.

Holy ****ing retard Batman, I think I just got on the short bus by accident.

[kingfury]

I tell you what, unfortunately, I am again going back and forth with someone that is NOT a game programmer in the slightest, /stagger so you have to forgive me for being frustrated with your lack of creativity on the topic at hand.

If you're bound by such things and concepts as if to think that altering game code is impossible, this is an enormous red flag that you truly don't understand game development. NOTHING is impossible if you are the one that makes the game. Absolutely nothing. I'm not asking that SE render the entire basis of combat math obsolete at all, or to alter it for some silly purpose. The facts you have listed are not beyond me, trust me, I truly understand the limitations you have repeated multiple times now. You however have failed to understand the point I'm making.

I'm not the only GA user that has no practical use for FOUR ws's in my ws list as they are. Not now, or in the coming level caps. That is a FAILING game mechanic. THAT'S NEARLY HALF OF THE STANDARD WS'S FOR GA! It doesn't take a game developer to see such a fact. Multiple posters in this thread alone have said "why even bother with these weapon skills when you could just use a damaging one?", and you still think I'm not addressing a valid issue? Weapon skills should not be left to rot in your list if they have intended use within the battle system. But rotting is exactly what they will continue to do if no attention is put towards them.

As developers of this game, IF the Dev Team was as closed-minded as you are, there would be NO SUGGESTION BOARD! Every single suggestion to adjust an in-game mechanic to work better would be swiftly met with your harsh and utter slight-sighted and empty creativity that would bash the head of any player that DARED to question the hidden game math. "THE GAME IS PERFECT AS IT IS YOU F'ING TARD!!... but thank you for your suggestion though" /wave. Sound familiar to your recent post any? /sigh

In closing, I don't expect any non creative people to view this thread and offer any constructive/creative feedback. You do well as filler post, and it's always good to attempt to elevate the thinking of others when you can. I'm not saying I'm brilliant, or smarter than anyone else, but intelligence can be shown via creativity and I know for a fact that the Devs are full of creative minds that can see a difficult and creative suggestion and see the potential in what it could do for their players. They've shown this multiple times throughout the years of developing this game, and even since the creation of these boards. Their intelligence and wisdom is what spawned this message board. You can't create a game like this without listening to the player's feedback and suggestions for change for long.

They've reworked major systems in this game based on player feedback that called for progressive change before but you seem to not remember these instances. So, again to reiterate my point, at the base of what I'm proposing, I'm calling for action to rework a system that is causing up to four ws's(and potentially more enfeebling ws's outside of GA) to be considered useless by a LARGE number of players. That is a real problem, and regardless of your ability to see it, such a problem deserves attention.

Thanks for the back and forth though, it always helps to get me to a clarifying point such as this. /take care

[Eeek]

I think it's a great idea to retardedly overpower Full Break so that it obsoletes the collective debuffing abilities of every other melee and mage in the game all at the same time. Brilliant!

[kingfury]

/smiles warmly at Eeek's perfectly timed response ^^

[Eeek]

I didn't read all the thread, so I don't know if I was the first to be the voice of reason.

Probably not the first, but that's ok. The more voices of reason the merrier.

[Tamarsamar]

kingfury is seriously implying that he's the only open-minded person on this board by demanding some bragging rights numbers on top of his bragging rights numbers.

I think it's more likely that it would make him the only empty-minded person.

[kingfury]

I didn't read all the thread, so I don't know if I was the first to be the voice of reason.
Probably not the first, but that's ok. The more voices of reason the merrier.

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Oh, trust me, I know you didn't take time and read anything. That's what the /smile was for ^^

[kingfury]

kingfury is seriously implying that he's the only open-minded person on this board by demanding some bragging rights numbers on top of his bragging rights numbers.
I think it's more likely that it would make him the only empty-minded person.

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I'm sure with enough time, you'll formulate and fabricate in your mind that I have also single-handedly wronged everyone on every topic ever created in the history of every message board there ever was. You have a wonderfully imaginative thinker there, and should look into writing kid books.