Is FFXI getting a cash shop?

[Dale]

Thank you for your point of view. And I agree, there are other parts of the game that could be considered competitive but in my observation and 12year knowledge of that game, there would be little obstruction to a player receiving such boosts... If SE were to implement the scaling right.

I also believe there is a lot of ambiguity to the "Cash Shop" idea from the player perspective. Just because there is going to be a shop that allows player to get items, does not mean these items will give the same intense advantage players are making them out to give. A good example of over reacting can be seen in the AA weapons, GK and Scythe. Yes they allow the wielder to use the respective WS but they still have to work for those WS in skill and their stats are no combat relevant.

To touch on the Play-to-win style of gaming. I never came in here asking for it nor did I specify how boosts or products would effect players. I simply stated in my first post that it would be a neat idea and gave a couple ideas of what I thought would be cool to see from it. If the shop is pure novelty, it wont change my perspective on the game.

My last points were meant generally. I was never accusing you of wanting to see Pay-to-Win on FF XI. Since you felt the need to defend yourself about that I should point that out.

A novelty shop would annoy me. I won't lie about that because I feel the money I pay each month should be sufficient and grant me equal access to all the content. So if they were to start adding exclusive items players can shop for on the side for it would feel like a lame gimmick to me.

The only way I could ever support something like that is if the items were purely cosmetic in nature and the developers swore an oath that all proceeds from it would go directly into development and not extra drinks in the bar after work. I would also need to see immediate results as well to confirm they were telling the truth. Then I might could hold my nose and support it.

[Dale]

Goodness, look at the firestorm I started by phrasing something as "a living, breathing world" before I went to bed.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I am very aware that Vana'diel isn't real, to the poster who was so deeply concerned for my mental health. But I've been playing FFXIV, which is a pure themepark game. Ie, you log in, get your gear, get out with no real impetus (not the monk JA) to explore around or do anything else but the latest event. That's fine, that's how themeparks are. XI, in contrast, IS designed to be as close to a second home, or even "a living world" by MMO standards, a more sandbox game that allowed you to find something to do the majority of the time, even if the event wasn't new. Hopefully that clarifies my mental health

I agree with you. So if you are mentally insane so am I.

FF XI is immersive and draws me into the environments as if I were there. Where as on Final Fantasy 14 I feel like I'm just rushing from point A to point B over and over again just so I can say I'm done. There is no sense of a living world as you described it.

The graphics on 14 may be sharper and more colorful. But if all I want is better graphics I'll simply walk outside. I live near a national park with waterfalls, rivers and mountains. What truly matters is a game's ability to hold my attention and allow me to escape into a different world I care about being in. And 11 does this far better than 14 does.

[Zephrose]

My last points were meant generally. I was never accusing you of wanting to see Pay-to-Win on FF XI. Since you felt the need to defend yourself about that I should point that out.

A novelty shop would annoy me. I won't lie about that because I feel the money I pay each month should be sufficient and grant me equal access to all the content. So if they were to start adding exclusive items players can shop for on the side for it would feel like a lame gimmick to me.

The only way I could ever support something like that is if the items were purely cosmetic in nature and the developers swore an oath that all proceeds from it would go directly into development and not extra drinks in the bar after work. I would also need to see immediate results as well to confirm they were telling the truth. Then I might could hold my nose and support it.

I assume you find the Tidal Talisman, Moogle Cap, Nomad Cap, etc... are all gimmicks too? These are all purchased items you can't get anywhere else other than the purchased ticket or Real world merchandise. What if they were to add more of these like item to the game for a fee? Would it be any different? Sounds more like your argument to the idea is out of jealousy rather than practicality.

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

[Dale]

I assume you find the Tidal Talisman, Moogle Cap, Nomad Cap, etc... are all gimmicks too? These are all purchased items you can't get anywhere else other than the purchased ticket or Real world merchandise. What if they were to add more of these like item to the game for a fee? Would it be any different? Sounds more like your argument to the idea is out of jealousy rather than practicality.

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

Yes, you are right Zephrose. I am jealous of the moogle cap. You have figured me out.

Sarcasm aside, a gimmick is just a trick to make money. I think the term applies. And even if you do not, that certainly doesn't make me jealous.

Anyway: I already explained this. This game was not sold as a pay-to-win game. It would be a slap in the face to players who spent vast amounts of time and effort to acquire the best gear only to let players buy it with some of their pay-check and skip all of that hard work.

As I said earlier: if someone feels they don't have the necessary time to play a game then they simply shouldn't play it. That makes a lot more sense then playing the game then asking for the developers to let them buy what other players have just because they don't have the time to put in the same effort.

[Seillan]

Another point I was subtly trying to make is Time is Money. If I can justify paying for an item that would equate to the time spent getting it, I will pay for the item in time up front. Because as we all know, Time equals Money, right? So why can't I just give my time in advance?

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

[Dale]

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

Exactly. There are plenty of pay-win-games out there on the market. There is no good reason to bring it here also.

Diversity and options is good for any market place.

[Poo]

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

*slow clap*

[Zephrose]

If this is seriously how you want to "play" (and I use that word very loosely here) an online game, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of F2P grinders and facebook games that would gladly accommodate you and your wallet. Let XI be one of the last games with some integrity and without a nickel and diming philosophy for those of us that prefer actually playing the game and earning the rewards we get.

If you don't believe you're being nickle and dimmed as of now for playing the game, you are delusional. The game charges you 12.99 a month for something that is hardly of value any more. Hell, I know players that are paying more then that just to get more log-in points/goods. Is that not the same things but in a different way? Essentially you are paying 12.99 a month for a single character to purchase items with log-in points. Is that hard work? Is that truly in-game effort to get something spectacular? You can look at it in different ways really. The Cash Shop approach just puts everything up front and available in a different venue.

Exactly. There are plenty of pay-win-games out there on the market. There is no good reason to bring it here also.

Diversity and options is good for any market place.

Yeah, I understand there are plenty of pay-to-win games out there. But I disagree on "There is no good reason to bring it here also". I would think quite the opposite to this in fact. I'm sure players would love it more than you'd think. Just because there are a handful of you here saying "No, please no..." doesn't mean others are not silently cheering on SE to implement it. Like Abyssea, I believe the shop would add another good facet to this game that players can leverage.

Diversity is good in the market place yes, but why not apply within something that already exists? Just a little effort is needed to get it off the ground.

[Stompa]

Essentially you are paying 12.99 a month for a single character to purchase items with log-in points.

No lol. You're paying 12.99 monthly subs for all of Vanadiel. An immersive online world, full of fun quests, epic missions, a very playable core battle engine, crafting, fishing, in-game friendships formed over many years, community fun. Etc. etc. etc.

The log in points were just another fun new system that were added to the package of experiences we call Vanadiel. Nobody was paying their main account just for log in points. We were paying for FFXI, and then log in points were added as a bonus. I would continue to pay subs if log in points stopped forever. So would everyone on my LS. So your idea that we are paying subs for log in points, and therefor we would all gladly have a cash shop, is madness.

How about all those people who spent years and years building RME, in pre ilvl grind with blood sweat and tears. Do you think they will be happy when some five year old kid buys that same RME with his dad's Visacard, in a five minute shopping process.

SE have made the game easier so you can farm those epic items on solo or in smaller groups. Surely that is enough of a concession, without making those items available in a one click shopping visit.

SE have already added ilvl 119 weapons and armor in the game which you can obtain fairly easily, and at low cost. This means that all players can have ilvl 119 weapons and armor, without feeling they need to spend ages farming RME items and currencies. There is no need for players to get RME to be useful in events. There is no need for players to buy gil, breaking the Rules of the game, and cheating the ingame role playing system, just to take part in the game at 119 standard.

Buying gil is cheating, you are playing a character in a RPG world, that character has to craft and farm and contribute to the Vanadiel economy, in order to obtain the exclusive legendary RME items. Buying gil opens a portal between that atmospheric roleplaying world, and the world of Earthly currencies. In real terms it is as though your character mysteriously got many millions of gil appear out of nowhere, without working for that money in the roleplaying game setting. This totally devalues the roleplaying game system. A cash shop would be the same, but without the official recognition that this process is cheating. Imo that would kill the game stone dead.

Again I agree with making Gift/ Event costumes like Tidal etc available again for more people, I paid for it because I wanted the Tidal Pendant real world item. And my Tidal Pendant purchase never undermined the hard work and devotion that people have put into their RMEs, not did it undermine the realism of a roleplaying world where characters have to earn their own money without it magically appearing in sudden mountains of gil from outside Vanadiel. A Cash-for-serious-gear/currency shop would undermine the years of work people put into gearing their chars by actually playing the game with an rpg adventurer spirit. A cash shop would kill that adventurer spirit dead.

[Seillan]

No lol. You're paying 12.99 monthly subs for all of Vanadiel. An immersive online world, full of fun quests, epic missions, a very playable core battle engine, crafting, fishing, in-game friendships formed over many years, community fun. Etc. etc. etc.

The log in points were just another fun new system that were added to the package of experiences we call Vanadiel. Nobody was paying their main account just for log in points. We were paying for FFXI, and then log in points were added as a bonus. I would continue to pay subs if log in points stopped forever. So would everyone on my LS. So your idea that we are paying subs for log in points, and therefor we would all gladly have a cash shop, is madness.

How about all those people who spent years and years building RME, in pre ilvl grind with blood sweat and tears. Do you think they will be happy when some five year old kid buys that same RME with his dad's Visacard, in a five minute shopping process.

SE have made the game easier so you can farm those epic items on solo or in smaller groups. Surely that is enough of a concession, without making those items available in a one click shopping visit.

SE have already added ilvl 119 weapons and armor in the game which you can obtain fairly easily, and at low cost. This means that all players can have ilvl 119 weapons and armor, without feeling they need to spend ages farming RME items and currencies. There is no need for players to get RME to be useful in events. There is no need for players to buy gil, breaking the Rules of the game, and cheating the ingame role playing system, just to take part in the game at 119 standard.

Buying gil is cheating, you are playing a character in a RPG world, that character has to craft and farm and contribute to the Vanadiel economy, in order to obtain the exclusive legendary RME items. Buying gil opens a portal between that atmospheric roleplaying world, and the world of Earthly currencies. In real terms it is as though your character mysteriously got manymillions of gil appear out of nowehere, without working for that money in the rpg setting. This totally devalues the roleplaying game system. A cash shop would be the same, but without the official recognition that this process is cheating. Imo that would kill the game stone dead.

Again I agree with making Gift/ Event costumes like Tidal etc available again for more people, I paid for it because I wanted the Tidal Pendant real world item. And my Tidal Pendant purchase never undermined the hard work and devotion that people have put into their RMEs, not did it undermine the realism of a roleplaying world where characters have to earn their own money without it magically appearing in sudden mountains of gil from outside Vanadiel. A Cash-for-serious-gear/currency shop would undermine the years of work people put into gearing their chars by actually playing the game with an rpg adventurer spirit. A cash shop would kill that adventurer spirit dead.

You said everything I was going to say and more, Stompa. To think that being charged a single monthly fee of a measly 13 dollars (which is two dollars less than just about any other subscription mmo, btw), for the hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of stuff to do in the game, somehow equates to "nickel and diming" is not only delusional (using your word here Zephrose) it's just plain silly, imo. Playing a subscription based mmorpg is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment and easily one of the best bangs for your buck that you can find -- and that's hardly arguable. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for online games that use micro-transaction systems that are designed to keep your wallet open at all times. Maybe that's what you want, but it sure as hell isn't what I -- nor I imagine what most other players of this game -- want.