Is FFXI getting a cash shop?

[Seillan]

Yeah so what ? As i said you dolt i switched to my main so i could post without the trolling accusations and it was pretty obvious to anyone reading the whole topic it was me. Don't worry i'll write a disclaimer next time and say it's me.

I'm admitting it was me, I would have just denied it flat out if i was trying to hide it you funny little creature.

This is also really quite funny becuase you are doing the same thing you disagree with posting on a low level account to hide who you really are whilst trying to cause trouble but again none of it bothers me it just further proves to me why i pretty much destest the kind of people who play mmos.

You only admit it because you got caught. You're not very bright are you?

And no, I'm not posting on a low level account. This is my only active FFXI account and as such, I'm posting on it. I'm not so pathetic that I need to troll on alt accounts to give my opinions some sense of validation.

Keep it coming though, really. Each one of your posts makes your initial "dregs of society" comment that much more ironic .

[Zephrose]

everything you said sounds awful (including sold vanity gear), and I still havent gotten my relic past 95.

One line replies like this are very constructive to conversations such as this. I commend your critical thinking and focus to this thread.

On topic though, why WOULD a Shop be a good or bad thing to have around? Honestly, who still plays this game long enough to get anything come? You have to play for at least three hours daily to get anything important done. That includes logging in, running around town, doing the event(s) you wanted to touch, and then settling down to log off. Who has time from this any more?

[Dale]

One line replies like this are very constructive to conversations such as this. I commend your critical thinking and focus to this thread.

On topic though, why WOULD a Shop be a good or bad thing to have around? Honestly, who still plays this game long enough to get anything come? You have to play for at least three hours daily to get anything important done. That includes logging in, running around town, doing the event(s) you wanted to touch, and then settling down to log off. Who has time from this any more?

If you don't have time to play an MMORPG though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

[Seillan]

If you don't have time to play an MMO though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

Exactly. That "Who has time for this any more?" type of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me in the context of an mmorpg. These games are designed to take time; that's part of the draw. I have limited time too these days, but I enjoy the time I'm able to get something accomplished in game, even if it's only little by little. The last thing I'd ever want to see was the ability to just take out my credit card and buy everything that I was too lazy to earn myself. If that's what you ("You" being general for those that would prefer buying their progress) want, this genre doesn't seem like the best fit for you.

[Dale]

Exactly. That "Who has time for this any more?" type of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me in the context of an mmorpg. These games are designed to take time; that's part of the draw. I have limited time too these days, but I enjoy the time I'm able to get something accomplished in game, even if it's only little by little. The last thing I'd ever want to see was the ability to just take out my credit card and buy everything that I was too lazy to earn myself. If that's what you ("You" being general for those that would prefer buying their progress) want, this genre doesn't seem like the best fit for you.

It doesn't make any sense to me either so you're not alone.

[Zephrose]

If you don't have time to play an MMORPG though the better solution would be just not to play one. Not to play one anyway and then ask a shop be opened up so you can buy all of the progress you don't have time for.

That's like joining a football team but saying I don't have time for practice so let me buy my touchdowns. How do you think the other players on the team putting in all those hard hours practicing would feel about that?

That's one way to think about it. However, marketing in games does not think about it that way. They could care less about your practice and more about your touchdowns. So instead of giving you the touchdowns, they give you the boost to perform the touchdown and still make you feel like you've done well within the game. Some players might think that's cheeky, and for sure it is, but not everyone has the same dedication to put into the game. They want to enjoy it, but in a different way.

One way to think of it in this case, how does this give an advantage to other players? Does them getting the item over you hurt your odds at getting the item? Does them getting the boost make them more likely to get stuff done over you? I haven't found an answer to either of these questions to prove them getting any help would make them "Better" than you.

If this was a PvP based game, I might think differently. However, it is not such and any external growth to your own does not effect you.

[Deirdre]

Goodness, look at the firestorm I started by phrasing something as "a living, breathing world" before I went to bed.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I am very aware that Vana'diel isn't real, to the poster who was so deeply concerned for my mental health. But I've been playing FFXIV, which is a pure themepark game. Ie, you log in, get your gear, get out with no real impetus (not the monk JA) to explore around or do anything else but the latest event. That's fine, that's how themeparks are. XI, in contrast, IS designed to be as close to a second home, or even "a living world" by MMO standards, a more sandbox game that allowed you to find something to do the majority of the time, even if the event wasn't new. Hopefully that clarifies my mental health

[Dale]

That's one way to think about it. However, marketing in games does not think about it that way. They could care less about your practice and more about your touchdowns. So instead of giving you the touchdowns, they give you the boost to perform the touchdown and still make you feel like you've done well within the game. Some players might think that's cheeky, and for sure it is, but not everyone has the same dedication to put into the game. They want to enjoy it, but in a different way.

One way to think of it in this case, how does this give an advantage to other players? Does them getting the item over you hurt your odds at getting the item? Does them getting the boost make them more likely to get stuff done over you? I haven't found an answer to either of these questions to prove them getting any help would make them "Better" than you.

If this was a PvP based game, I might think differently. However, it is not such and any external growth to your own does not effect you.

It may not be PvP-based, but there are PvP activities. Not to mention there are other types of competition outside of direct PvP - such as competition for monsters etc. where advantages bought from cash shops could certainly come into play. But anyway - I was never trying to frame the debate in terms of the semantics regarding the word advantage.

From a marketing perspective - if a game wants to advertise itself as a pay-to-win style game then that is fine. But that is quite a different matter than to later implement it in on a game where this style of play was never expected or marketed as. A game where players have already spent enormous amounts of time to gather the best equipment only to find out later they could have simply donated some of their paycheck for the week to acquire it. That is almost like a slap in the face. No let me rephrase. That is a slap in the face.

So in other words: I guess what I'm simply saying to you is if a person enjoys that style of game and wants to play a pay-to-win game they should go out and buy a pay-to-win game. Not buy Final Fantasy XI and then ask for it to be turned into a pay-to-win game just to suit them.

[Stompa]

No i just couldn't be bothered to fight with you over it so i edited it but as you want to bring it up i'll happily repeat it for you.

There is no winning with you people because if i post on a level 1 char it's considered trolling regardless if what i said is how i feel, so i signed onto my main char and continued on to then have someone as "smart" as you point out that it was stilll me, well no fucking shit Sherlock that's exactly why i logged onto this account.

Not true, if you posted on a level one char with its very first Post Number One, and wrote some positive constructive feedback / criticisms, my reply would have been "welcome to the Forums" etc. and I would have replied to the salient points you made in your post in a friendly adult manner, as between equals. The reason you got called a troll is because that account had zero posts, and with your very first post you called fans of this game "dregs" and "fools" etc. That is the classic definition of troll, they are literally flame-spewing on their very first post. Like "I only made this account to post this tirade of bitterness on post number one," lol.

Back on topic though, and being as I am in two ancient linkshells founded in 2004, along with some newer linkshells, I can confirm that none of the established playerbase wants to see Creditcard Leapfrogging added to this game. I feel certain that SE would lose a lot of subscriptions if they added a direct pay-cash-for RME / content clears type of system. FFXI has been changed a lot over the years, but it has never been changed in such a fundamental drastic way. Giving people trusts and homepoint warps and sparks, is not the same as giving them a system where they can use Daddy's mastercard to buy Mythics or w/e. Just listening to the chatter on my LS's, I think the game would lose a lot of loyal fans if this change came to pass. Because it would fundamentally change the FFXI effort-reward structure, and thus make it a different game entirely. So SE would have to balance out the income from selling core content wins/gear, with the money they will lose when the actual play-games-on-legitmode people walk out in disgust.

But again, I don't mind people getting special event stuff like Tidal Talisman etc. I havent used my Talisman at all since the Nashmau home-point-warp was added lol, and I used that body to warp for years before the HP-nexus system arrived. These are fun quirky gift items and I think SE should add them to the management page for purchase. But no currencies / content progress / serious items, because that would upset players who spent years working on those things.

[Zephrose]

It may not be PvP-based, but there are PvP activities. Not to mention there are other types of competition outside of direct PvP - such as competition for monsters etc. where advantages bought from cash shops could certainly come into play. But anyway - I was never trying to frame the debate in terms of the semantics regarding the word advantage.

From a marketing perspective - if a game wants to advertise itself as a pay-to-win style game then that is fine. But that is quite a different matter than to later implement it in on a game where this style of play was never expected or marketed as. A game where players have already spent enormous amounts of time to gather the best equipment only to find out later they could have simply donated some of their paycheck for the week to acquire it. That is almost like a slap in the face. No let me rephrase. That is a slap in the face.

So in other words: I guess what I'm simply saying to you is if a person enjoys that style of game and wants to play a pay-to-win game they should go out and buy a pay-to-win game. Not buy Final Fantasy XI and then ask for it to be turned into a pay-to-win game just to suit them.

Thank you for your point of view. And I agree, there are other parts of the game that could be considered competitive but in my observation and 12year knowledge of that game, there would be little obstruction to a player receiving such boosts... If SE were to implement the scaling right.

I also believe there is a lot of ambiguity to the "Cash Shop" idea from the player perspective. Just because there is going to be a shop that allows player to get items, does not mean these items will give the same intense advantage players are making them out to give. A good example of over reacting can be seen in the AA weapons, GK and Scythe. Yes they allow the wielder to use the respective WS but they still have to work for those WS in skill and their stats are no combat relevant.

To touch on the Play-to-win style of gaming. I never came in here asking for it nor did I specify how boosts or products would effect players. I simply stated in my first post that it would be a neat idea and gave a couple ideas of what I thought would be cool to see from it. If the shop is pure novelty, it wont change my perspective on the game.