[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Dale]

After 5 pages of argument, you still failed to explain HOW a shield WAR is an effective playstyle, except "My friend's shield WAR is good". Not convincing at all.

Did you notice that you're the only one advocating "Shield WAR won't slow down the group" in this entire thread? If your opinion is correct, I'd see more players supporting your opinion about WAR using a shield.

I failed to do it because I am not even trying to do that. I was never trying to argue why this play style or that is more or less effective. I don't even play warrior.

My purpose in this thread was to tell players not to get annoyed at others simply because they play in different ways.

[Afania]

I hope you do not really believe this. Because if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And I refer to you as Afania because that is your name and who I am talking to you. You aren't some entity who speaks for the greater community. Me and none of my friends would have no problems playing with a shield warrior so long as they played well and worked as a team. Not everyone thinks as you do. And the majority opinion is often the silent one, so please don't try and use shouts in Jueno as some evidence that your opinions are somehow more important than mine.

Your ability to twist the meaning of my words is amazing. I said "other's approval", it means more than just ME.

Try to log on and join a pt on a shield WAR that's not made by Afania, do that for 1 month, see if PUG leaders start to /blist you.

I didn't say your opinion isn't important, I only point out that you're the minority.

Why I know it's minority? Cuz I know majority of the PUG leader/event leader on my server, afaik none of them would make a DD pt full of shield WAR.

If shield WAR is a high demand job in this game, I wouldn't even argue about this topic for 5 pages. I'd just say "Yes, shield war is amazing, we should just use a shield on a WAR" and end this discussion.

[detlef]

This one time, we had a shield WAR in our PT and despite him performing worse than he should have (through his own choice), everybody else in the PT stepped up and performed better than they should have had to and we still won. It took longer, hate was shakier, and I don't think he even actually blocked anything but it just goes to show that 5 other good players can allow the 6th to roleplay.

[Dale]

Anyways, at this point of time I don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore, go ahead and enjoy playing with a shield WAR! In reality they won't get invited to PUG most of the time unless their friends enjoys clearing the content slower with them!

I could really care less who PUGS invite or who they don't. And I will enjoy playing with shield warriors Because I can appreciate others rather they are the very best at something or not. And if it means it takes me a couple more minutes to defeat something, I think I will live.

[Afania]

This one time, we had a shield WAR in our PT and despite him performing worse than he should have (through his own choice), everybody else in the PT stepped up and performed better than they should have had to and we still won. It took longer, hate was shakier, and I don't think he even actually blocked anything but it just goes to show that 5 other good players can carry the 6th to roleplay.

Fixed for accuracy

[Dale]

Your ability to twist the meaning of my words is amazing. I said "other's approval", it means more than just ME.

Try to log on and join a pt on a shield WAR that's not made by Afania, do that for 1 month, see if PUG leaders start to /blist you.

I didn't say your opinion isn't important, I only point out that you're the minority.

Why I know it's minority? Cuz I know majority of the PUG leader/event leader on my server, afaik none of them would make a DD pt full of shield WAR.

If shield WAR is a high demand job in this game, I wouldn't even argue about this topic for 5 pages. I'd just say "Yes, shield war is amazing, we should just use a shield on a WAR and end this discussion"

And your ability to twist my words is equally amazing because I said if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And you don't have to say shield warriors are amazing. Simply not be annoyed by them or say they shouldn't join any content outside of role-playing and that would suffice.

[Dale]

This one time, we had a shield WAR in our PT and despite him performing worse than he should have (through his own choice), everybody else in the PT stepped up and performed better than they should have had to and we still won. It took longer, hate was shakier, and I don't think he even actually blocked anything but it just goes to show that 5 other good players can allow the 6th to roleplay.

So what. I've played with bad Great Axe warriors also. Does that mean I should go around painting all other GA warriors with the same brush? Of course not.

It's best to judge players on an individual basis and not assume things about them.

[Afania]

And your ability to twist my words is equally amazing because I said if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And you don't have to say shield warriors are amazing. Simply not be annoyed by them and that would suffice.

You can't change other's emotion nor POV toward the others though, it's too much to expect everyone else not to be annoyed by a shield WAR.

I agree that it's disrespectful to talk shit about others, but you can't control how you really think.

If I see a shield WAR, of course I'd have certain POV toward it that's not exactly positive, I may not say it in /p chat, but there's nothing we can do to change that.

This is just human nature, ppl tend to have opinion toward the others, sometimes it can be negative, the difference is whether they say it or not.

Also, since this game is a MMORPG, I don't agree with your opinion about jobs. Of course you can insist to play the job in certain way, you'd just have to make friends or tolerate less efficient run. Since the game punishes the player playing the job in certain way by making them spending more time killing stuff or making friends, players don't have free will to choose how they want to play in this game.

[detlef]

So what. I've played with bad Great Axe warriors also. Does that mean I should go around painting all other GA warriors with the same brush? Of course not.

It's best to judge players on an individual basis and not assume things about them.

Now you're judging the player, not the gear. This is solely a gear issue. If you take a player with an axe and a shield and give that same player a greataxe instead, he will perform better. Feel free to continue defending roleplaying if you want, however. That's the only way your argument holds any water.

[Dale]

You can't change other's emotion nor POV toward the others though, it's too much to expect everyone else not to be annoyed by a shield WAR.

I agree that it's disrespectful to talk shit about others, but you can't control how you really think.

If I see a shield WAR, of course I'd have certain POV toward it that's not exactly positive, I may not say it in /p chat, but there's nothing we can do to change that.

This is just human nature, ppl tend to have opinion toward the others, sometimes it can be negative, the difference is whether they say it or not.

Also, since this game is a MMORPG, I don't agree with your opinion about jobs. Of course you can insist to play the job in certain way, you'd just have to make friends or tolerate less efficient run. Since the game punishes the player playing the job in certain way by making them spending more time killing stuff or making friends, players don't have free will to choose how they want to play in this game.

But it's not the game that punishes players for playing jobs in certain ways. Players like you do. I hate to be blunt about that, but it's just the truth. And players can simply ignore these types of players and play the game as they want. So yes, they do have free will - and can be successful in the process so long as they don't try anything absurd that goes against the intended game design.

So it's very possible to complete the content on this game using a variety of different jobs and play-styles. The fact some players can't tolerate a less efficient run and seek to exclude everyone but a select few based on this obsession to clear everything as fast as possible doesn't mean the game itself does. That's a very important distinction.