[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Dale]

Oh and btw, this is a MMORPG with group content, if you think ppl really have right to choose job out of their own free will, you're wrong. What job you can play in this game is mostly based on the other's approval, this applies to more than just shield WAR.

I hope you do not really believe this. Because if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And I refer to you as Afania because that is your name and who I am talking to you. You aren't some entity who speaks for the greater community. Me or none of my friends would have any problems playing with a shield warrior so long as they played well and worked as a team. Not everyone thinks as you do. And the majority opinion is often the silent one, so please don't try and use shouts in Jueno as some evidence that your opinions are somehow more important than mine.

[Afania]

I hope you do not really believe this. Because if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And I refer to you as Afania because that is your name and who I am talking to you. You aren't some entity who speaks for the greater community. Me and none of my friends would have no problems playing with a shield warrior so long as they played well and worked as a team. Not everyone thinks as you do. And the majority opinion is often the silent one, so please don't try and use shouts in Jueno as some evidence that your opinions are somehow more important than mine.

Your ability to twist the meaning of my words is amazing. I said "other's approval", it means more than just ME.

Try to log on and join a pt on a shield WAR that's not made by Afania, do that for 1 month, see if PUG leaders start to /blist you.

I didn't say your opinion isn't important, I only point out that you're the minority.

Why I know it's minority? Cuz I know majority of the PUG leader/event leader on my server, afaik none of them would make a DD pt full of shield WAR.

If shield WAR is a high demand job in this game, I wouldn't even argue about this topic for 5 pages. I'd just say "Yes, shield war is amazing, we should just use a shield on a WAR" and end this discussion.

[Dale]

Your ability to twist the meaning of my words is amazing. I said "other's approval", it means more than just ME.

Try to log on and join a pt on a shield WAR that's not made by Afania, do that for 1 month, see if PUG leaders start to /blist you.

I didn't say your opinion isn't important, I only point out that you're the minority.

Why I know it's minority? Cuz I know majority of the PUG leader/event leader on my server, afaik none of them would make a DD pt full of shield WAR.

If shield WAR is a high demand job in this game, I wouldn't even argue about this topic for 5 pages. I'd just say "Yes, shield war is amazing, we should just use a shield on a WAR and end this discussion"

And your ability to twist my words is equally amazing because I said if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And you don't have to say shield warriors are amazing. Simply not be annoyed by them or say they shouldn't join any content outside of role-playing and that would suffice.

[Afania]

And your ability to twist my words is equally amazing because I said if you think what job I play on this game is based on your approval or anyone's else's for that matter you are more mistaken than even I thought.

And you don't have to say shield warriors are amazing. Simply not be annoyed by them and that would suffice.

You can't change other's emotion nor POV toward the others though, it's too much to expect everyone else not to be annoyed by a shield WAR.

I agree that it's disrespectful to talk shit about others, but you can't control how you really think.

If I see a shield WAR, of course I'd have certain POV toward it that's not exactly positive, I may not say it in /p chat, but there's nothing we can do to change that.

This is just human nature, ppl tend to have opinion toward the others, sometimes it can be negative, the difference is whether they say it or not.

Also, since this game is a MMORPG, I don't agree with your opinion about jobs. Of course you can insist to play the job in certain way, you'd just have to make friends or tolerate less efficient run. Since the game punishes the player playing the job in certain way by making them spending more time killing stuff or making friends, players don't have free will to choose how they want to play in this game.

[Dale]

You can't change other's emotion nor POV toward the others though, it's too much to expect everyone else not to be annoyed by a shield WAR.

I agree that it's disrespectful to talk shit about others, but you can't control how you really think.

If I see a shield WAR, of course I'd have certain POV toward it that's not exactly positive, I may not say it in /p chat, but there's nothing we can do to change that.

This is just human nature, ppl tend to have opinion toward the others, sometimes it can be negative, the difference is whether they say it or not.

Also, since this game is a MMORPG, I don't agree with your opinion about jobs. Of course you can insist to play the job in certain way, you'd just have to make friends or tolerate less efficient run. Since the game punishes the player playing the job in certain way by making them spending more time killing stuff or making friends, players don't have free will to choose how they want to play in this game.

But it's not the game that punishes players for playing jobs in certain ways. Players like you do. I hate to be blunt about that, but it's just the truth. And players can simply ignore these types of players and play the game as they want. So yes, they do have free will - and can be successful in the process so long as they don't try anything absurd that goes against the intended game design.

So it's very possible to complete the content on this game using a variety of different jobs and play-styles. The fact some players can't tolerate a less efficient run and seek to exclude everyone but a select few based on this obsession to clear everything as fast as possible doesn't mean the game itself does. That's a very important distinction.

[Afania]

But it's not the game that punishes players for playing jobs in certain ways. Players like you do. I hate to be blunt about that, but it's just the truth. And players can simply ignore these types of players and play the game as they want. So yes, they do have free will - and can be successful in the process so long as they don't try anything absurd that goes against the intended game design.

So it's very possible to complete the content on this game using a variety of different jobs and play-styles. The fact some players can't tolerate a less efficient run and seek to exclude everyone but a select few based on this obsession to clear everything as fast as possible doesn't mean the game itself does. That's a very important distinction.

I find it funny that you're saying Afania is the main culprit that made the shield WAR kills stuff slower.

If I play shield WAR and do yorcia delve 6 NM run, I'd finish it slower.

Even if I made everyone on the server to invite my shield WAR, it doesn't change the fact that a shield WAR kills 6 NM slower.

No matter how hard I try, I can't change the game mechanic, it_just_kills_slower.

It doesn't matter if I get invite or not, the game simply punishes anyone for playing WAR with a shield, cuz the formula determining the dmg output is lower if the player equip a shield.

So why it's player's fault that role players got punished? Obviously it's the game mechanic and the formula that's punishing anyone trying to equip a shield on their WAR.

So no, free will doesn't exist in this game. My definition of free will means "free to make choices with 0 sacrifice". In FFXI if I want to play a shield WAR, I sacrifice my time, and 5 other pt member's time with slower kill speed.

[Dale]

I find it funny that you're saying Afania is the main culprit that made the shield WAR kills stuff slower.

If I play shield WAR and do yorcia delve 6 NM run, I'd finish it slower.

Even if I made everyone on the server to invite my shield WAR, it doesn't change the fact that a shield WAR kills 6 NM slower.

No matter how hard I try, I can't change the game mechanic, it_just_kills_slower.

It doesn't matter if I get invite or not, the game simply punishes me if I want to play WAR with a shield, cuz the formula determining the dmg output is lower if I equip a shield.

So why it's player's fault that role players got punished?

I didn't say you personally were the main culprit. I said players like you were. Those who are obsessed with spread sheets and dps and completing content as quickly as possible and think any job that doesn't contribute to that aim sucks and is just a leech and slows the party down.

Not all of us are care if something takes a couple more minutes to complete. We play MMORPGs to have fun and create an individualized character we enjoy playing. And players can accomplish this goal while still having success in the game. That was my point.

So again: it's not the game that punishes other players. It's players like you who for some reason expect the rest of us to play the game for the same reasons you do else you refuse to group with us. Which is your right. And to be honest I don't want to group with players with such a mentality anyway. I was just correcting you when you say it's the game that punishes players for not being as " efficient " as possible. Because it's not. The game design is solid and allows for all kinds of different play-styles to succeed.