"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[FrankReynolds]

I was going to reply to this...

Not having access to gear doesn't harm anyone lol. You don't get hurt, you don't starve, you just.....don't have certain pixel item/accomplishment in a video game. After you log off you still have your family, friends and job, not having a pixel item/accomplishment won't affect you a bit. What harm does that do?

But you seem to have rebuked your own argument....

Video game needs accomplishment so players are willing to pay monthly fee, but players doesn't NEED accomplishment in a video game to survive, you're getting it wrong. If this game has no accomplishment that I'm interested in I'd just click cancel sub button, if I don't have certain shiny in this game I wouldn't feel unhappy about it.

[Afania]

I
More or less finger pointing, saying "he did it first!", and attempting to justify poorly constructed replies by claiming their replies are what led to the degradation of your own.

This is more like a joking/not serious way to counter someone's argument that's based on subjective POV but not proper logic nor reasoning.

This is more of an issue that Mrkillface continue to construct his argument out of HIS logic, by applying his subjective POV on everyone, and not respecting other's opinion. Every point I made, he just dismissed it with "I think you're just X" "Nahhhh, I think you're X! You're just X!" or "I think fun is Y"....basically everything is HIS opinion, and not supported with a reason.

Since there's no way I can counter anyone's subjective argument with reasoning, besides a not so serious attitude "he did it first!"

FYI, he did counter my opinion with a solid reason once, which is the definition of skill= practice and experience, and I DID accept his opinion that playing FFXI is a skill, just doesn't affect the performance nearly as much as gears. I don't think clicking macros very fast is a skill(thus you think it's "poorly constructed because it was indeed based on my subjective POV"), but it could fit the definition if you look into it. If someone express his POV out of a fact, but not opinion, then I will accept it.

Everything else is basically based on "No you just wanna be a cool kid in town because I said so!" or "I don't think long grind is accomplishment nor fun because I said so!" "If ppl can't aim for every gear in this game it's bad because I said so!"

Right, definition of fun is his opinion, I got it. But surely there isn't a reason to brought it up over and over again as there won't be a real conclusion over this.

Also, there's a reason why dev won't reply every request, game dev's often view game issues from completely different POV from gamers most of the time. Some of the request are beyond silly on these forums, and replying everything needs resources. Some requests makes sense on these forums, but very 1 sided without math support, just personal experience that doesn't apply to everyone. Topic derailing surely isn't the reason why dev ignored us.

There's also a reason why I replied to that Karate thing. He used Karate as an argument about skill v.s gears. I replied that in standard Karate competitions, you don't hold swords, you fight with bare hands, so it's not a good example. It's not derailing, it's relevant to the discussion.

I was going to reply to this...



But you seem to have rebuked your own argument....

See? Not this again. I fail to see in what way that I "rebuked my own argument". If you like other accomplishments like short grind or solo AA, just go do it. I didn't ask SE to remove every accomplishment in game besides long term goal. But removing long grind would means less goal to aim for players liking long grind.

[Demonjustin]

Also, there's a reason why dev won't reply every request, game dev's often view game issues from completely different POV from gamers most of the time. Some of the request are beyond silly on these forums, and replying everything needs resources. Some requests makes sense on these forums, but very 1 sided without math support, just personal experience that doesn't apply to everyone. Topic derailing surely isn't the reason why dev ignored us.

As I said, I don't expect a reply to everything nor do I expect all ideas to be implemented. That said, saying no to literally more than 3/4ths of the ideas ever presented no matter their degree of support from the community nor their degree of reasoning presented in them is simply ludicrous. I don't believe this thread should get a response except for at most an explanation as to why so many ideas are turned down so often. The fact this was derailed as I said before is actually something I think is a good thing, not a bad thing. It keeps this up top in General Discussion at nearly all times which is wonderful as the title alone serves as a reminder to why this thread was even made. My problem with derailing is when we go from a meaningful topic in this thread to something stupid and nonsensical, when the argument becomes stupid, pointless, and circular, getting no where and only wasting the time of those involved. I love debates where people learn, grow, or change their mind based on things presented in general, but debates where people just run in circles, misinterpret arguments, argue semantics, or ignore points made, are debates that serve only to waste time. This to some extent was becoming one of those, which is why I popped in here as I did.

There's also a reason why I replied to that Karate thing. He used Karate as an argument about skill v.s gears. I replied that in standard Karate competitions, you don't hold swords, you fight with bare hands, so it's not a good example. It's not derailing, it's relevant to the discussion.

You ignored the substance of the point rather than addressing it, and instead addressed an irrelevant inaccuracy in which form of combat was being practiced in the example. As I showed earlier, by simply changing karate to kendo/kenjutsu you instantly fix the entire problem with that sentence. If you understood what was being said, you should have replied to the idea behind it, not simply ignored it and pointed out that using karate for the example was inaccurate.

All of that said, I believe the point behind it was that gear makes a difference but skill does too. You can have an example that is fair, or one that is not. A swordmaster in robes, armed with a shinai vs an average swordsman in armor, armed with a katana isn't a fair fight. The swordmaster may win, but the chances of victory are so far slanted against them that it's a ridiculous example of equipment beating out skill. This was similar to your argument that a Tsurumaru wielding SAM will beat out a Hagun wielding SAM quite easily. It's not literally impossible for the Hagun SAM to win, but you've slanted the odds so far against them that even if they were the best SAM to ever grace this game, and the Tsurumaru SAM had only been playing for the last three hours and barely understood the game's combat system, the Tsurumaru SAM would likely still win. There are gaps skill can close, but not all gaps are equal, there comes a point when skill no longer becomes a substitute, and I doubt you'll find many who will say skill means everything. That said, skill is by no means something to be discounted, you simply must have odds that present a fair example rather than one such as that.