"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Malithar]

Think you guys are hung up on the definition rather than the implication. Sure, reading up on things doesn't equate to experience, but knowing what you're walking into before hand to prepare carries it's own value. Not that any of those things has anything to do with what was being discussed (skill != gear, experience, knowledge, etc), but you can't outright rule out reading up on things either.

[Demonjustin]

Nah, I just jumped in because I found it funny that even staring the definition of a word in the face this argument is so bad that it was misinterpreted even then. Just feels like an example of how bad this argument is getting in general.

[FrankReynolds]

Sometimes ppl don't swap to specific gears because they don't have them/choose not to get them.

Sometimes....

I don't think other ppl's opinion matter in this discussion though, anyone can find a million reasons to complain another player suck......again being good or bad is subjective.

You said gear was the only determining factor in performance....

I didn't say a thing about mythic should drop from AA fight, nor reward from AA solo.

Oh, well then I guess we agree that soloing and AA is in no way the same as building a mythic. Glad we cleared that up.

They're done to satisfy the need for accomplishment, and it's not done by everyone, in that aspect it's the same. You keep talking about the reward, I was talking the motivation to do it.

You think it's different because my motivation already being twisted into something else by you, lol.

You put it in writing. This isn't europe. The internet never forgets.

You're comparing real life skill with FFXI jobs, which isn't even comparable. As long as you're using standard Karate equipment(not wearing an armor etc) in a competition, your performance is mostly based on skill. Wearing different karate equipment doesn't change your performance as much.

Neither does reading a wiki about it.

In FFXI if you DD with Tsuru v.s another DD using hagun, there's a huge difference.

In karate if you bring a plastic sword to a real sword fight, there is a huge difference.

[Afania]

Precisely this.

You can read everything there is on how to gear your job properly. You can then go and get all that gear and set all the macros up just like you were told, but just because your SCH (as an example) has all the best gear for stunning, doesn't mean that you're skillful enough to actually stun a TP move.

And that applies to hitting your -PDT/MDT macros when a big TP move is being readied, too. Or not using your WS in the middle of a SAM or BLU's self-SC or any other job using sekanokki.

Nor does it mean that you're not going to be 'that guy' that runs in to a particularly hard fight and hits your 2 hour immediately and ends up ketting yourself killed before you've had a chance to use it fully because you didn't let the tank take hate, or whatever. Or you get the WHM killed because they're spamming cures on your to keep you alive, or they just run out of MP after 30 secs.

Fine, let's say "stunning TP move" is a skill as you wish. Mrkillface's goal is to play "better than everyone else with better skill". If you can stun TP move, another SCH can also stun TP move, you don't really play better than him.....unless you have better gear that allows you to do other aspect better?

I honestly don't understand the logic behind "I wanna play better than everyone else but I don't care about gear". It simply doesn't make sense in a MMORPG.

In karate if you bring a plastic sword to a real sword fight, there is a huge difference.

Swords in Karate....whhaaaat? Karate in Japanese means "empty handed", so you don't hold weapons when you fight. Again if you like to argue about something, at least do some research about it.....

[Lithera]

You still learn how to use a bo staff in many different karate schools so just replace sword with twig from a tree or something of equal value.

[Demonjustin]

In FFXI if you DD with Tsuru v.s another DD using hagun, there's a huge difference.

In karate if you bring a plastic sword to a real sword fight, there is a huge difference.

Swords in Karate....whhaaaat? Karate in Japanese means "empty handed", so you don't hold weapons when you fight. Again if you like to argue about something, at least do some research about it.....

Ok here, I'll change things up for ya real quick so the argument makes more sense since we're sitting here arguing semantics.

In kendo/kenjutsu if you bring a plastic sword to a real sword fight, there is a huge difference.

Better?



I know this is likely pointless to do but may I ask a favor? If we're going to sit here and argue about something in a game being changed can we at least carry on the argument in a meaningful way? Getting off topic every five posts, dodging questions via semantical arguments, or simply trying to argue like children playing your "cards" against one another is really getting no where. If we're going to waste time, can we at least make the time wasted a bit more meaningful? As it stands this debate seems very facepalm worthy.

[Afania]

Ok here, I'll change things up for ya real quick so the argument makes more sense since we're sitting here arguing semantics.

Better?



I know this is likely pointless to do but may I ask a favor? If we're going to sit here and argue about something in a game being changed can we at least carry on the argument in a meaningful way? Getting off topic every five posts, dodging questions via semantical arguments, or simply trying to argue like children playing your "cards" against one another is really getting no where. If we're going to waste time, can we at least make the time wasted a bit more meaningful? As it stands this debate seems very facepalm worthy.

It's not my fault that Mrkillface just want to argue for the sake of argument! I already said I can maybe accept the fact that FFXI requires some skill, I still don't understand how gear doesn't play a more important role that you can "play better than everyone else" without good gears. Also I don't understand why Mrkillface's opinion about "I want to play better than everyone else!" isn't the same as being the cool kid in town.

If anything it was Mrkillface that's dodging the questions lol.

[FrankReynolds]

It's not my fault that Mrkillface just want to argue for the sake of argument! I already said I can maybe accept the fact that FFXI requires some skill, I still don't understand how gear doesn't play a more important role that you can "play better than everyone else" without good gears. Also I don't understand why Mrkillface's opinion about "I want to play better than everyone else!" isn't the same as being the cool kid in town.

If anything it was Mrkillface that's dodging the questions lol.

My playing well doesn't harm anyone. Not having access to gear does.

[Glamdring]

ok, now that this topic has gotten completely derailed I'm going to do something completely unheard of and necrobump back to the OP's point. I think his question was overly complex. What's really happening-well, I'm not sure who here has had a logic or a journalism course but to "gather the facts" is to get he answers to 5-6 questions, Who? What? When? Where? Why? and when necessary How? because that's the beef, we aren't getting our 5 or 6 elements of a fact, "Why" is conspicuous by its absence.


Who is always the same, the devs and by extention SE. What should be self evident from the thread title if the person starting the thread is any kind of writer which I am sure we will all agree is NOT always the case. When-as we are only addressing denials in this thread obviously the universal when is "never". Where- unless it is a request for area specific content the answer is always a two-fold "at the server and wherever you are logging in". How isn't necessary in a denial as how do you do a how of nothing? Which leaves us with the question that is never answered, WHY is the dev team saying no? I know they usually say server load or balance, well server load we can understand, it's a hardware limitation and while some of our more computer literate types may be interested (and may even know how to beat the limitation) that much detail isn't necessary to the run of the mill player. but "balance" is the argumentative equivalent of that parental argument used by parents when their 3 year old child just out-reasoned them "because I'm your <parent> and I said so".


Example: pet food and jugs for beast only stack to 12 instead of 99 for balance reasons because the other 3 pet job's food and called pets only stack to 0, which any player with even half of a single functioning brain cell immediately thinks possibly because other pets are free and of an entirely different mechanism to get (the argument that we can have a free pet at any time is a completely bogus argument, only instanced content counts now and we haven't been able to charm a pet in an instance since level 75 was the cap). Well, every job has examples of this in requests for a change or just information, this isn't a beast-only rant. Look how long red mage had to complain to get ANYTHING of consequence, balance could not have been the issue, if rdm was a threat to be overpowered they might have been desired in SOME KIND of end-game content, but they weren't.


what we are asking is when we get the generic politely phrased "gotohell" answer that we at least get some reasoning to support it. a good example would be your explanation for not fixing Accomplice on thief as a good amount of detail.

[Demonjustin]

It's not my fault that Mrkillface just want to argue for the sake of argument! I already said I can maybe accept the fact that FFXI requires some skill, I still don't understand how gear doesn't play a more important role that you can "play better than everyone else" without good gears. Also I don't understand why Mrkillface's opinion about "I want to play better than everyone else!" isn't the same as being the cool kid in town.

If anything it was Mrkillface that's dodging the questions lol.

I'm not pointing fingers because in all honesty I don't care. I've hardly paid attention at this point to much of this at all. The part I have paid attention to is that it's all getting fairly poor, both of you to some extent could be seen as acting at very least a bit childish. That's part of why I made a point of requesting we actually try to have a civil and meaningful conversation if we're going to bother having one. If we just continue how this has been going then SE will ignore it all, the topic will continue to be derailed but even more meaninglessly, and neither side will come away caring about the outcome of it all nor will they have learnt anything. I find debates like those to be pointless wastes of time.